Alpha SF problems: I'm of no use!

[Aquagraph]

I already promised her that I will protect her during a zombie breakout. I did it for the cookies.

 

[Beautiful sky]

I feel like I'm always trying to find a new, creative way of doing something with little. I try to be MacGuyver and take what little things I have to make something that will patch together what I need, but SEIs are just like, "You know, you can get xyz for like $2 and it'll fix that in a half hour." >>;

So you're good for more than just cookies and milk. But I can see how an alpha SF would feel a bit left out when it comes to plotting or planning things.

You mean you're always trying to come up with Si ways of dealing with work-Te? I believe it's the Ne's who come up with the ideas.

Your duals told you they have big brains? Bake some brain cake for the zombies to gain escape time and tell your duals you are sorry but you have to minimize the amount of people sacrificed while maximizing the quantity of the key ingredient.

ROFL

[FoxOnStilts]

You mean you're always trying to come up with Si ways of dealing with work-Te? I believe it's the Ne's who come up with the ideas.

Are you calling me SLI now? lol. No, that wasn't what I meant at all. I meant I try something new that hasn't been done before just for the hell of it. if it's already been done and proven effective, then I go and try a different way that may or may not be better. Either way, it's more fun to explore uncharted territory.

[Beautiful sky]

I feel like I'm always trying to find a new, creative way of doing something with little.

"The IEE is keen on accumulating factual knowledge on subjects of personal interest and those that help him be more efficient and productive, but he's often unsure of his ability to find and select the correct information and is therefore attracted to people whom he sees as competent in that area and reassure him. He prizes efficiency,

I'm sorry but that screams out EFFICIENCY TO ME.

[FoxOnStilts]

No, that's what you look to do, not what you are.
Still IEE.

lol ok

[Beautiful sky]

lol ok

Did you read my quote? would you like me to compare it to what you wrote about yourself?

[FoxOnStilts]

Did you read my quote? would you like me to compare it to what you wrote about yourself?

You pick and choose and put words in other peoples mouths. I have no desire to discuss my type with you.

[force my hand]

Alpha SFs humanize the rest of us.

Pretty legit skill, if you ask me.

[Beautiful sky]

You think you're of no use? How effing practical is Fi?

[Aquagraph]

Alpha SFs humanize the rest of us.

Interesting. Please explicate.

You think you're of no use? How effing practical is Fi?

Fi PoLR sometimes seems one of the best PoLRs there are.

[Beautiful sky]

Interesting. Please explicate.

Fi PoLR sometimes seems one of the best PoLRs there are.

Actually, I shouldn't be so weird about this; Fi helps people stay connected, to reach out to those who are alone, gather in altruistic causes, help family and friends through tough times, give love, care and support in physical and psychological ways.

[Ozz]

To all Alpha SF: Do not underestimate the impact you can have with your ability to assemble a team of experts using cakes and cookies.

[Aquagraph]

Actually, I shouldn't be so weird about this; Fi helps people stay connected, to reach out to those who are alone, gather in altruistic causes, help family and friends through tough times, give love, care and support in physical and psychological ways.

Being a good person helps too.

[ClownsandEntropy]

I'm not an Fi-PoLR, but I find it hard to maintain any meaningful relationships with people unless I'm regularly exposed to them. Otherwise I just sort of lose interest in them, and there's no sense of friendship, whereas some (Fi-dominant) friends seem to be good friends with people from a while back even though they don't see them regularly. Mainly it's because they can be bothered to talk to them, but also they seem to have a better feeling for how the relationship's going and work with that.

That being said, I (being another Fi-devaluing alpha) believe Fi-PoLR's probably a better PoLR than some of the other ones. Beats all of the extroverted PoLRs at least.

In order to justify posting in this thread, I'll say that Alpha SF's are useful because they have to deal with the shy INTj's - see second most recent thread in the Alpha Forum.

[Phthalate]

Pft. Last year I was working with a SEI PhD student in environmental engineering, while I know of a certain LIE who creates characters in his head to make himself more appreciable.

Who gives a shit about being 'useful'? What is 'useful' anyway? Even fucking Einstein is getting dismissed in Physics right now, and he was known as the epitome of genius a couple of decades ago.

Now get back to your kitchens and make me a fucking grilled cheese sandwich.

[Blaze]

Man the op is really getting down on themselves....SEI brings all inside of the pulsing whole, they see how everything fits and can make any situation balance, make any body balanced, are gifted at holistic yet practical thinking. I'd give anything to have one in my life!

The art of balancing people and situations is complicated, and SEI is the only type who can see how everything and everybody fits. That's a gift, don't knock it, and if cookies are a part of that package, so be it. Cookies go a long way w people.

Even the wild ideas of ILE find a place of usefulness in the world of SEI.

[Blaze]

Yes.

There are so many things to say about this...

I think it's easier for ESEs to find a job they like and feel useful. SEIs are often more lost.

SEIs should not fear Te situations too much. That's when it really becomes a problem. It is very important to learn some routine in these situations, to be prepared. That's the way to fight the polr, to meet it half way. Let someone else deal with the tricky logistical problems, but learn some basic skills in logistics, because it is needed in almost any job.

Artistically talented SEIs should go for art, design, crafts, music imo. But most SEIs are not talented, of course. That's always an exception regardless of type.

Or "art" in the broader sense of the word. Some SEIs work with lighting in studios, or audio mixing etc. I think this is a good idea.

A mediator, someone who helps people, service. That's what socionics suggests. SEIs can be great at this, but it requires some work experience to free one's talents, because there are often other things involved that need to be learned.

I think it's better to put dreams aside, at least for awile, and try to do what one is actually good at. It can be a surprise.

This sounds like how I think when I'm down on myself....like I'll say yeah SLE has Fi polr but at least they have some Se and have some idea of what people need...or look at IEE Ti polr, no one really cares about Ti anyway...yada yada yada.....

You've got to understand and value your strengths and contributions....they're totally important...the socion would not be complete without you. Everybody has a burden in their weaknesses, but without your strengths society would fail.

[Nowisthetime]

This sounds like how I think when I'm down on myself....like I'll say yeah SLE has Fi polr but at least they have some Se and have some idea of what people need...or look at IEE Ti polr, no one really cares about Ti anyway...yada yada yada.....

You've got to understand and value your strengths and contributions....they're totally important...the socion would not be complete without you. Everybody has a burden in their weaknesses, but without your strengths society would fail.

Did you think I sounded negative? I actually tried to be constructive and see the talents of a SEI and how they can be put into practise

I just think that SEIs need to partially adapt to what's demanded in working life, because that's the basic skills, the platform, that will allow them to use their strengths also. That's just how reality is.

I also think that many SEI don't see their skills as very important. Instead they are going for some "high end" field where they will be miserable. Not all SEIs of course. That's what I meant when I said it can be good to put dreams aside.

I think my strongest skills would be to help or guide people in some way, maybe help someone who is sick or elderly, or teach people to do some practical stuff. Something that involves relaxed personal communication. Because I am patient and I can adapt myself to the other person automatically. Being close without intruding. But unfortunately I don't really have any ambitions in that field. That's my problem

[Aquagraph]

One amazing thing I've noticed about SEIs is that they can do a lot of stuff without making it awkward. Many things they do would make other's feel uneasy if it weren't for their laid back sincerity and the feeling that they know exactly what lines not to cross.

Imagine Parkster saying stuff that bionicgoat sometimes says. He's a hairy man in his thirties and he says "pervy" things but everyone seems to be like "AWW that's our bg".

Or maybe I'm just projecting.

[Beautiful sky]

How can alpha SF be useless if they are found among the world's respected professions like

Lawyer - SEI friend
The doctor I work for - ESE
my sister - aspiring Sociologist
police officers/law enforcement
actrors/performers/entertainers
the list goes on.

[Aquagraph]

How can alpha SF be useless if they are found among the world's respected professions like [...]

So you have found examples of people you typed as SEI and are "pillars of community". How reassuring to the (stereo)typical sluggish waste-of-human-resource SEI artists I love.

[Gilly]

One amazing thing I've noticed about SEIs is that they can do a lot of stuff without making it awkward. Many things they do would make other's feel uneasy if it weren't for their laid back sincerity and the feeling that they know exactly what lines not to cross.

Imagine Parkster saying stuff that bionicgoat sometimes says. He's a hairy man in his thirties and he says "pervy" things but everyone seems to be like "AWW that's our bg".

Or maybe I'm just projecting.

No lol u ryte

[Ver]

I don't know how you can feel useless! I just love alpha SFs. They can be whoever they want to be - they are have a sense of duty and they finish the things they start. My mother is an ESE and a doctor. My two ISFp friends are successful translators. And my grandma is one of the best people in the world!!!!!!!!!! When I was down, depressed and couldn't do anything she was the only person who really offered me some practical help. She came to me, she lived with me, cleaned my flat for me, did shopping etc. Once I came back home totally drunk, without shoes and I vomited on my front door. Then I decided to walk the dogs bare foot and I lost one of them... I went to sleep totally drunk and she had been waiting for the dog to come till early morning looking for him through the window . She didn't even raise her voice the next day.
She's veeeeery practical. I also had rats at home (they came from the cellar) and I didn't want to kill them at the same time being very panicky when I happened to saw them. She poisoned the rats (without my knowledge) and was very comforting when I was crying when I saw them dying.
When she went to hospital she cut parts of newspapers with jokes because she wanted to make sad people laugh ...
I don't know, to me alpha SF are great, good people and it doesn't matter to me at all that their Te is so weak. If I were to choose the best type ever, with the biggest heart, that would probably be ISFp.

[Fermi]

"Someone's out there building a fucking space rocket and all I can do is make amazing cookies.

A moon-motherfucking-rocket. "

WHO is building a rocket? Did you just mean there could be someone out there building a real rocket or do you know specifics? This is important to me and by answering it you will gain karma.

[grandoak]

Hello, new forum member here.

The power of Ne tells me that you are probably of use, due to the fact that literally everything is of use. Chairs are of use. Books are of use. Children are of use.

You say you are good at baking. Maybe you could:

start teaching kids in your area to bake at an afterschool program

write a cookbook that aligns with the political ideals that you want to spread (i.e. sustainability, veganism, locally grown produce, etc.)

volunteer to cook at a homeless shelter

[Beautiful sky]

Did you think I sounded negative? I actually tried to be constructive and see the talents of a SEI and how they can be put into practise

I just think that SEIs need to partially adapt to what's demanded in working life, because that's the basic skills, the platform, that will allow them to use their strengths also. That's just how reality is.

I also think that many SEI don't see their skills as very important. Instead they are going for some "high end" field where they will be miserable. Not all SEIs of course. That's what I meant when I said it can be good to put dreams aside.

I think my strongest skills would be to help or guide people in some way, maybe help someone who is sick or elderly, or teach people to do some practical stuff. Something that involves relaxed personal communication. Because I am patient and I can adapt myself to the other person automatically. Being close without intruding. But unfortunately I don't really have any ambitions in that field. That's my problem

[Destroypuppy]

When life as got you down, just call an Fi girl.

[Destroypuppy]

Find a ILE man, and let him use you

[Destroypuppy]

He will be powered by your need for Te, and will explain everything as long as you have questions.

[xerx]

Almost everybody is useful in some way.

I'd even say that virtually every Alpha SF is more useful than virtually every narcissistic stock trading douchebag who got us into the current recession (except for Alpha SF stock traders).

Just because what you like to do can't be expressed as a packaged commodity with a price tag doesn't make you useless; it can even make you more valuable.

(Unless what you "like to do" is murder, gold-digging or exploitation and so on; lots of wealthy folks are actually pretty good at #3)

[aisa]

I know it's an old thread that I'm resurrecting, but it just felt soo good reading this, I had to mention it.

I cannot count the number of times that I felt the ways described here. For many years I thought "well, I'm great at this and at that, oh and at that... but SO WHAT?! it's still useless." (and being surrounded at the time by mainly by Gamma quadra members pressuring me certain directions didn't help)
The moment I stopped letting other people's judgements of how I'm supposed to live my life and what will surely make me happy" matter, was the moment it all started going back on track. Maybe in theory some things aren't "efficient" especially money-wise, but life's luckily not only about getting the "results" the corporate-driven society expects... life's about living, ha!

[Reficulris]

I know it's an old thread that I'm resurrecting, but it just felt soo good reading this, I had to mention it.

I cannot count the number of times that I felt the ways described here. For many years I thought "well, I'm great at this and at that, oh and at that... but SO WHAT?! it's still useless." (and being surrounded at the time by mainly by Gamma quadra members pressuring me certain directions didn't help)
The moment I stopped letting other people's judgements of how I'm supposed to live my life and what will surely make me happy" matter, was the moment it all started going back on track. Maybe in theory some things aren't "efficient" especially money-wise, but life's luckily not only about getting the "results" the corporate-driven society expects... life's about living, ha!

Why do you want to be usefull? I just want to be loved (and fed and cuddled and hugged and all the other shit alpha SF's are good at ;-) )

[aisa]

Why do you want to be usefull? I just want to be loved (and fed and cuddled and hugged and all the other shit alpha SF's are good at ;-) )

lol, this sounds very Alpha NT
I think every person wants to be useful on some level and it's ok. The part that's not ok (and that I was sort of addressing in my previous post) is when we start believing that there's only one sort of skill that's useful and stop seeing a broader perspective - that all humans have something valuable to share with others, some skill that's so natural to them that it goes unnoticed, while other people might crave getting its results
besides, let's go even further with the stereotypes... I not only want to be happy I also want to make other people happy through being useful - and that sounds Alpha SF... right?

[Reficulris]

lol, this sounds very Alpha NT
I think every person wants to be useful on some level and it's ok. The part that's not ok (and that I was sort of addressing in my previous post) is when we start believing that there's only one sort of skill that's useful and stop seeing a broader perspective - that all humans have something valuable to share with others, some skill that's so natural to them that it goes unnoticed, while other people might crave getting its results
besides, let's go even further with the stereotypes... I not only want to be happy I also want to make other people happy through being useful - and that sounds Alpha SF... right?

Yesh yesh, I know, I was joking around.

As for the content; I think it's maybe the use of the term "usefull" that irks me. I can see why people would like to contribute, to help to guard etc, feeling "usefull" sounds so....awefully sad in a way. Like being of use, it's clinical and or objectifying? Maybe that's me.

[aisa]

Yesh yesh, I know, I was joking around.

As for the content; I think it's maybe the use of the term "usefull" that irks me. I can see why people would like to contribute, to help to guard etc, feeling "usefull" sounds so....awefully sad in a way. Like being of use, it's clinical and or objectifying? Maybe that's me.

well, yeah yeah you were just trying to get a reaction, and probably one like this right?

hmm... yeah it does sounds "sad" in a way when it's linked with going against one's natural inclinations, but when it's going with who you are, "usefullness" is fine (yeah, I do realise what you meant was more semantics related than the content itself ) it's just a word like any other as long as it doesn't mean denying one's needs to be "useful" above everything else

[lemontrees]

Just speaking for me personally...

Being useful is nice if you want to be self-sufficient. I actually really agree with what Nowisthetime said earlier in the thread about going for less high-pressure jobs and ones in which Si will be of use, maybe as a part of a larger infrastructure in which someone else does the Te planning (although the Te-PoLR will always be painful)! But if you stick with an area of expertise there are probably ways to make up for that lack of Te with time and experience. Like right now when I imagine my life I really really want to be able to find a stable longterm job niche, take care of myself without major worries, and have time/ energy to pursue other meaningful things on the side. I don't get as easily bored with repetitive tasks as a lot of people I know so that wouldn't be so much an biggest issue.

The problem I run into most is that there's almost nothing an SEI can do at work that one of the other three Si types can't do better- so the trick is to find an area that is either reasonable in terms of market (i.e. not one of those jobs where there aren't many positions but there are a lot of people wanting to do them, despite low pay) or somewhat lower in terms of pay (compared to what an LSE can hope to make, for instance) so that you can find a place that is sustainable and makes sense.

Also being useful is good in general b/c otherwise it's really difficult to help people in times of need even if you "mean well." Fe is not useful to at least half of the population, including Fe-users themselves, whereas Te-assistance will almost always be concretely useful (even if they make the receiver uncomfortable.) That's my perspective anyway... I try to make up for lack of Te with generosity of time and resources (but I am not always generous with time or resources lol.)

[aisa]

@lemontrees I agree on the part that it's reasonable to try and work on what we perceive as weaknesses (depending on what we consider as such depending on a person, not necessarily tr), but still think it's more important to work on developing our strengths. I really don't share the pessimism in comparing SEIs to other types using Si. There's a place for everyone and therefore there are bound to be jobs that SEIs are better at than others and obviously also the other way round.
From my pov I'd rather focus on developing Ne than Te (it just feels trying to self-dualize might be more natural than working hard on PoLR). Having said that, there's obviously some level of Te that's necessary to function in the modern world ofc.
Basically there are jobs where various combinations of Si, Fe, Ti and Ne can be desirable and while it is a combo that ESEs also posess (when comparing Alpha SFs) - a more "tame" creative Fe of SEIs can sometimes be quite a big asset. So far what worked best for me was focusing on the things I find most interesting and enjoyable and then taking chances, checking what "works" and figuring out what else I need, where my weak points are and then trying to compensate to a reasonable level.
Chances are we're trying to say almost the same thing, but what I'd like to emphasize is that I disagree with this part "that there's almost nothing an SEI can do at work that one of the other three Si types can't do better". That's overly pessimistic to me.

[xerx]

Just speaking for me personally...

Being useful is nice if you want to be self-sufficient. I actually really agree with what Nowisthetime said earlier in the thread about going for less high-pressure jobs and ones in which Si will be of use, maybe as a part of a larger infrastructure in which someone else does the Te planning (although the Te-PoLR will always be painful)! But if you stick with an area of expertise there are probably ways to make up for that lack of Te with time and experience. Like right now when I imagine my life I really really want to be able to find a stable longterm job niche, take care of myself without major worries, and have time/ energy to pursue other meaningful things on the side. I don't get as easily bored with repetitive tasks as a lot of people I know so that wouldn't be so much an biggest issue.

Don't believe the hype about Te. Ti can be just as effective in the same settings.

The way I use Ti, I learn a system so thoroughly until most ambiguity is removed and I understand it (and all its possible states) completely (--> then I get bored and move on, but that's the Ne talking). It's not efficient, but it gives a clearer picture. Te types would focus more on learning the useful details they needed.


Anyhow.. I think you're on the right track by looking for a specialization. Not only do you have less to learn, but you'll be a valuable expert in no time by getting a thorough knowledge of it.

The problem I run into most is that there's almost nothing an SEI can do at work that one of the other three Si types can't do better- so the trick is to find an area that is either reasonable in terms of market (i.e. not one of those jobs where there aren't many positions but there are a lot of people wanting to do them, despite low pay) or somewhat lower in terms of pay (compared to what an LSE can hope to make, for instance) so that you can find a place that is sustainable and makes sense.

Also being useful is good in general b/c otherwise it's really difficult to help people in times of need even if you "mean well." Fe is not useful to at least half of the population, including Fe-users themselves, whereas Te-assistance will almost always be concretely useful (even if they make the receiver uncomfortable.) That's my perspective anyway... I try to make up for lack of Te with generosity of time and resources (but I am not always generous with time or resources lol.)

You don't need to be valuable to the whole population or even half of it, just to a certain select group of people in your life!


And FYI, Te is one of the boringest things EVER! I just had the worst conversation of my life with a Te type who wouldn't stop listing the pros and cons in terms of efficiency of different software tools for a project I'm working on. I told him that I'd rather program my own tools from scratch to utilize my knowledge of the concepts, but he had a hard time understanding why I'd waste so much time.

He only cared about the end result and how to get there more quickly. And it wasn't even to go do something else that's more fun, which I'd totally be down for, but due to efficiency for its own sake. Fucking soulless automatons. J/k not really.

[Narc]

You think it sucks having all these weaknesses? Try being one of the poor fuckers that have to actually solve the problems.

[aisa]

lmao, the last comment just killed the thread!

obviously this thread wasn't a vent thread... it was a thread of whiny Alpha SFs, who never come across problems irl and work, much less never ever are able to solve them efficiently without the Te types