Title says it all.
How is Socionics/time on this forum useful, beneficial, or productive for you?
Title says it all.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 10-29-2021 at 05:38 PM.
It's not.
It's clearly not of course, however I don't really value those things anyway cuz of Te polr lol and I feel the real world already tries to force me to be 'useful', 'beneficial' and 'productive' so much that I come here more to unwind and to pay attention to the human drama side of things. Artistic beauty over efficiency or 'usefulness.' This place can be so ugly and mentally deranged that it's beautiful I suppose, the way 'good art makes you vomit?' lol. If you're trying to imply that nobody should visit here because it's innately corrupt & amoral - you're probably right but ehhh in my view there's no place in the world that's sacred or without corruption like that. I don't really have the Fi to see how that can be true - like I was in a real world Gamma establishment the other day that was clearly fucking people over lol even if they were being more covert & Te with it- it was still pretty fucked up and heartless though I'm sure from their Gamma POV they felt they were in the right. I think people who go through their lives trying to find a 'sanctuary' are retarded - I guess when you're Beta you realize every place you visit is Hell - online or off, and you learn to love & embrace it ala Hocus Pocus witches.
knowing peoples motives and tendencies by instantly VI'ing them is extremely powerful. Not to mention the intrapersonal aspect to it.
Why do you feel so confident that you know their motives and tendencies instantly? Or was this sarcasm (to mock assuming the worst about others)?Originally Posted by Number 9 large
Also…if it wasn't sarcasm, what do you feel this gives you more power to achieve?
Interpersonal relations and knowing thyself and partners/friends well
I mean i compare them to types i already know well
to me it feels similar to asking ''how is life useful, beneficial, or productive for you?''
i guess this can turn into an inquiry on the virtual
You don't see that as huge leaps in conclusions based on mere physical features by using a system that isn't scientifically proven to be valid?
What kind of 'power' does this give you? How has it manifested concretely? How do you know that you aren't just assuming things about them while thinking you understand them well?
No, no. Nothing like that at all. I'm not implying anything. I'm an inquisitive person, I want to understand more about other people. I'm mentally keeping track of my own reasons simultaneously. I am the kind of person that needs to be productive, I don't like wasting my own time. If I didn't have a productive purpose for doing something, I would swiftly discard it; meaning, I have my own reasons I have signed up and participated here myself, it is not leisurely (very little that I do is, and usually I'm forcing myself to do it for health benefits if it is). I have (for the most part) departed from here as a personal individual; my intentions now are only to learn about others, if I do post here.
EDIT: I'm interested in psychology and learning about human beings. It's a topic of interest that allows me to better understand and help others in my RL, etc. That's about all there is to it.
Exposes me to new perspectives/some amount of novelty and helps break up time. I wish the amount of novelty was higher sometimes, though
i identify patterns in people that i relate to complexes, stories, experiences beliefs, inclinations, body language, communication, the whole inner world of a person and how they work so i can understand them more easily through those patterns, that i can apply from one person to another, and see how it manifests in the individual, which grows my web of understanding, throuch which i can use the patterns/principles to have in mind about how the person im dealing with works, and how to treat them. for example, i cant expect a Fi PoLR to understand what a 4D Fi can by themselves. by the patterns of SLEs for instance, and general assholes, i can know that the person im dealing with is a SLE before having interacted with them and they would be Fi PoLR so its likely that they'd be presumptuous aggressive self absorbed and incapable of seeing consequenecs. instead of making the effort to try to understand where they are ocming from i already know multiple narratives about how their mind is and what their life has been, that doesnt need to go into specifics, BECAUSE THE LOGIC IS THE SAME SO MY DEALING WITH HTEM IS THE EXACT SAME REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENNED IN THEIR LIFE IN THE SPECEIFICS. so i wont have to expose my vulnerability while trying to understand them and be their friend, because i know thats not possible the way they expect me to and the way i expect them to, and i can set borders based off of that how i understand them to work.
inntiitally i wantede to understand what the types are about, and how someone managed to wrap someone up in a type, but especially somehow define those patterns (thinking, feeling etc) that would make people such, and since i confirmed those patterns are there, i wanted to understand why is that so, and i sought to fix my cognitive lacks, to understand others and grow.
i am autistic but did not know this, bc i didnt face a lot of social interaction issues that they seem to face, ofc i had trouble with other ppl, but it was very clear to me thats their fault, something wrong with them, since i was never one to grope or bully someone just for fun, including ostracize from social situation bc i dont like how they fucking stand in the hallway???? i was constantly projecting possibilities of how people might think bc it was all bs and i had to purposefully get my head into whatever cognitive dissonance people around me and potential ppl in the future could have, so i would avoid getting myself in trouble based off of their stupid biases. anxiety all the time. i was losing so much energy trying to figure out how to talk my way out of getting bullied, beaten, blamed, extortion, "debts", bc if i say the wrong thing/use the wrong words/am a bit vague/say something thats too far out of the moron's cognitive scope that i would be accused of lying the fucking sensor would ruin my life. i would be forced to snitch but at the same time punished for it, so damned if i do, damned if i dont, so i had to make sure i remember everything in details to talk to the fucking sensor to give him a valid reason for my actions, when in fact they are the ones who need to explain themselves, but their minds are so full of shit prejudice, that i get my mind and sense of self lost in this fake world they built.
great succecss only i know im autistic by self diagnosis.
later i figured types were related to facial and body structure, ofc i didnt know inititially if it was true, but i was looking for it, comparing faces people types what i know about them body languages and it started to fit, then my theory about muscle function cranial shape and cognitive abilities, then autsim and other mental illnesses/neurodivernge having their own patterns of facial structures and being related to how types deal with the world, then genetics and tribal societies that in those stages of development were only Si, Se, Ni, Ne egoes, which is also identifiable in their social structures on top of facial, which later became mixed in our more civilized societies, and this is all related to how different types cope with society and the issues their face, and the types also being related to rarity in terms of what kind of people are more likely to survive and reproduce in such conditions as defined by others, and physiological adaptations and illenesses like mines, who tend to plague N types and are comorbid with autism and other neurodivergences, its like i keep seeing people with these weird issues, oh its IEI, oh its ILE, oh this is LSE but comes from N family or S family with neurodivergence or high IQ which are the same genes and what do u know they have the weird health issues.
types are like math tricks/formulas that u use for making it easier to calculate?
i was looking into types bc if there is a type, there is a something that makes u a type, and why would that be, what does it mean? i was exploring limits and how realtiy works, if u understand how it works u can control it in that way that it works. asking why someone needs to understand something is redundant. im not implying that u are doing that.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Socionics / Jung is probably the most useful thing you can learn about people.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
@Tallmo, I completely agree with this.
I tend to be quite confident in recognizing types. Its like recognizing cars. You just know it when you see it and then you already know whats under the hood more or less, sometimes even before interacting.
Basically the power to read minds
Because over time my assumptions tend to be confirmed.
If not, ill retype them or at least reconsider. Im not perfect.
How do you know youre seeing a ferrari and not an audi? I just look at it. Ofc some interactions make typing more accurate.
was stereotyping u as ESI, assuming u are sensitive and value being understood, deep connections, and tending to make harsh assumptions based on concrete evidence more (Se instead of Ne), like "VI is not real", or getting frustrated with me misquoting/misunderstanding u while u are misunderstanding what i express with my words like others misunderstand u that i expected would happen huge leaps?. I was arguing with serenaeva about her concrete evidence bs on autism like u were arguing with her about VI, it is a stereotype for ESIs to be stuck in their own bs until the thing happens to them and then only they can move on and say "i used to think X way but then I "experienced" the thing and changed my mind". in general thats how it is for sensors. intuitives can simulate the experience instead of having to go through it.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
I literally only come here while waiting for stuff to finish microwaving.
Well I don't know what to say other than the 'People aren't robots' line. It's easy to understand that not all of our motivations or desires are based on those things, right. I realize it is a non-valued vs valued Te thing but people do things all the time that don't have much to do with productivity or usefulness. ((I think it's still 'beneficial' in some ways or I would stop coming here altogether...but maybe not. Maybe I think beneficiality is overrated as well lol.))No, no. Nothing like that at all. I'm not implying anything. I'm an inquisitive person, I want to understand more about other people. I'm mentally keeping track of my own reasons simultaneously.
It reminds me of the scene in Charlie & the Chocolate Factory where Charlie said that chocolate has no point, but people still enjoy it. Even if you value Te extremely I think a person can understand this- but I think for Te polrs especially maybe it will be more on the extreme end.
Cars are concrete. Socionics is nomothetic theory. You don't know VI based things about people, you believe VI based things about people. Your argument here is like the typical religious argument about faith. You have faith in VI/typology, basically. That's very different than identifying cars. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 11-02-2021 at 07:03 PM.
Honestly? If you want an actual answer to your question?
Nope...not really in either context of the word. Thick-skinned and people tend to say I'm insensitive, if anything.
No more than the average personvalue being understood
Really didn't need typology to figure that one out about medeep connections
Far from it, but believe what you want - I've done it a few times on this forum, but it's been extremely out of character for me.tending to make harsh assumptions
You're generalizing as though this is my entire pattern based on one example, and that particular example happens to be something that many people of many types also scoff at.like "VI is not real", I was arguing with serenaeva about her concrete evidence bs on autism like u were arguing with her about VI, it is a stereotype for ESIs to be stuck in their own bs until the thing happens to them and then only they can move on and say "i used to think X way but then I "experienced" the thing and changed my mind". in general thats how it is for sensors. intuitives can simulate the experience instead of having to go through it.
Your phrasing/run on sentence made this confusing, but it sounds like you're basically just describing general communication issues every type experiencesor getting frustrated with me misquoting/misunderstanding u while u are misunderstanding what i express with my words like others misunderstand u that i expected would happen huge leaps?.
Yet, it was probably a waste of my time to answer you, if I extrapolate based on your personal, individual, non type related patterns.
Think I've gotten all I really can from this thread at this point. It's only further confirming what I already knew, I'm not learning anything new. Moving on from this thread. Feel free to respond / discuss / use this thread amongst yourselves, but I'm out.
@Noir
the point is that typology would give it away when all i would know about u is that u are ESIReally didn't need typology to figure that one out about me
are u sure? what was that about high IQ and frustration. ESI i know isnt even high IQ yet he struggles with the same problem.No more than the average personvalue being understood
i wonder if thats due to meeting people here that tend to not participate into the social atmosphrere in the real world or other more common places, that would trigger you?Far from it, but believe what you want - I've done it a few times on this forum, but it's been extremely out of character for me.tending to make harsh assumptions
people can disagree with it differently. u scoffed, but an EII is less likely to scoff the way u did. they wouldnt call it "pathetic" and whatever other terminology u used. its different way of expression and different cognitive pattern behind it.You're generalizing as though this is my entire pattern based on one example, and that particular example happens to be something that many people of many types also scoff at.
some types are more tolerant of ambiguity and those dont tend to be sensors, and again its different in their thought process and reaciton. i've seen sensors miscommunicating and having harsh reactions more than intuitives in general. communication issues i may have with everyone but it is intuitives who tend to get me more.or getting frustrated with me misquoting/misunderstanding u while u are misunderstanding what i express with my words like others misunderstand u that i expected would happen huge leaps?.
u can be sensitive and thick skinned. u can be sensitive in a way and not in another... its hard to explain but it doesnt mean that its not there. for example u can be strongly in love with someone but not break down when the relationship ends. u can care about ur bonds with people without whining or agonizing about it, like someone else would. this doesnt mean that someone agonizing is their intentional controlled fully aware choice, or that it's wrong or lowly.Nope...not really in either context of the word. Thick-skinned and people tend to say I'm insensitive, if anything.
no one "knows" anything. its all conceptualization in ur mind about how things are. and u can absolutely compare apples and oranges as they are fruits, u can go into many layers of abstraction of similar and distinctive. there are certain properties that make a type related to VI. just because u fail to recognize it doesnt mean its not there. like with colors, i can recognize green from blue, i can recognize EII from SLI. how do i prove to you which is which? we are dealing with cognitive patterns here. a cognitive pattern is something u observe and understand. just like physical phenomena. even if someone explains it to you, you could still deny that the sun's shining. that's just, like, their opinion, man.Cars are concrete. Socionics is nomothetic theory. You don't know VI based things about people, you believe VI based things about people. Your argument here is like the typical religious argument about faith. You have faith in VI/typology, basically. That's very different than identifying cars. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Last edited by VewyScawwyNawcissist; 11-03-2021 at 01:57 AM.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
It's not really "useful" in the sense that you'll get material gain from it or any recognition, but a forum's purpose isn't suppose to be that. Atleast from my understanding. You can say the same about using Facebook or any other social media platform. How is YouTube productive for you? How is even Reddit productive for you? It's not, but like Shazaam said, people come here to unwind, have simple conversations and study interesting theories. It adds variety and leisure in their lives. Otherwise, if you have no variety in your life by appreciating the simple joys, are you really living?
I think Socionics can be useful in some instances but it should never take the place of actually living your life. You can't expect it to have all the answers. I sometimes meet people in the typology community who become so obsessed with it they withdraw from their daily lives and become stuck in their head. Sometimes they ignore that the other person in front of them is an actual person and not some experiment they can study. I think that further alienates and isolates them from people in the long run, they have unbelievable expectations of others and become depressed or dissatisfied with their lives in general. As a result, their relationships suffer and therefore, their mental health plummets.
@VewyScawwyNawcissist So basically, you're saying you couldn't have learned anything you "learned" about me without typology? You just struggle that much to understand people without it?
Helps put a name to patterns in how the Fe hits different in different ITR. How rational/irrational ITR hit different. The way different types argue when unsettled or out of their element. The motions I have to go through tweaking my brain to make sense of certain combinations of functions and cognitive style coming at me. Lets me be proactive about being more tolerant of annoying ways people think (which is out of their control), changing my approach, or cutting my losses.
no im saying that it fits into the pattern of u being xSI that i would expect of u if i knew u were xSI before i knew what u're like that ur tendencies would fit into that pattern. and that's visually identifiable too.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
You do know you're just rejecting the fact that I claimed you're inaccurate about me, while you're continuing to insist your method is useful, right? If you based accuracy on the above exchanges we've had, you got 1 out of 6 correct, and the 1 thing that was correct is something that's not even type-specific; many types of people want the same thing. That means there's a higher statistical probability of guessing it, no different from pulling marbles out of a bag and having a higher chance of pulling out a blue when there are mostly blue ones in it. It's simply human nature to crave satisfying relationships because we are social creatures. So why are you insisting upon believing you're accurate anyway? What does believing this theoretical construct more than a person's assessment of their own experiences actually get you? Not accuracy, something else…a sense of security, perhaps? A sense that you have more control over your interpersonal life? What makes you so desperate to believe in these constructs that you are willing to disbelieve a complete stranger's claims about themselves? Someone you hardly even know the first thing about. Or, by all means, if I'm wrong...it shouldn't be too difficult to think of examples of my actions that match your type based views of what I'm like, right? Feel free to go ahead and do that.
To be clear, this isn't personal to me, I'm not being defensive, and I'm not upset. I'm curious and getting to the bottom of some of my own questions I have about certain tendencies that people have. I'm challenging VSN's held beliefs and getting answers for myself simultaneously. In this context, my experiences are merely tools for the job, things I'm using to make logical points.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 11-04-2021 at 02:41 AM.
Honestly I'm surprised more people don't seem to find it as massively helpful as I do. It greatly improves my patience with people and understanding for how they work, and why they want what they want. Maybe I find it so helpful because I'm a teacher though, and I need to work very directly with quite a huge number of diverse people in order to do my job - not only referring to the students, but to the other teachers I work with as well. I have quite a lot of people I need to work and communicate/cooperate very closely with every day, and when there's a cultural divide to cross as well it's very useful to know what kinds of things are similar across different people. I might also find this so helpful because I'm a people-pleaser though. I really like to know what people want from me and I do my best to provide it. Type gives me an easy shorthand for remembering what kinds of expectations people have of others, and I find knowing it invaluable
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell猫が生き甲斐
its not the same what the conditions for that would be for different types. its not true that ESE can never have a satisfying relationship with a IEI but it would be much less likely depending on factors than other things. what defines xSE as they are would mean the conditions for their relationship would be different than xSI. xSE are more shallow, and xSI have a complex judging process with their personal biases that makes their need someone more considerate, while xSE would shed consideration on that level, it would be redundant and overwhelming to them.
your tending to make harsh assumptions manifests in ur opinion about VI too.
a lot of people say i dont know them. those people are usually nothing new to me. they say it to besecure about their own perception of themselves and the world. people dont like when someone knows them better than themselves. what makes them so sure about their own assessment of themselves than someone else;s? self pereception by default has the world in context, as they may know some things about themselves, what they perceive tends to have a bias. for example male SLEs are "thick skinned" but they are the most insecure people in reality, so they need a IEI to understand them. IEI may be the most capable type of understanding and guiding a sociopath.
for you, i can get "thick skinned" in some regards, but u have had very defensive reactions.
even psychopaths can get quite mad. they say they dont have emotions but its only that they cant feel them, and their emotions tend to be replaced with anger only.
this is inacurrate conceptualization of what im doing.everything is a conceptual construct. of course i need to think and compare how things are, ideas vs other ideas.What does believing this theoretical construct more than a person's assessment of their own experiences actually get you?
what makes you so desperate to believe you are a complete stranger? thats another harsh assumption signifying sensor.What makes you so desperate to believe in these constructs that you are willing to disbelieve a complete stranger's claims about themselves
we have Ne PoLR already, Ni HA with ur quest, Ji first function trying to figure things out on a deeper level, Se ego to be limited in personal experiences, u looking up to that girl who abused herself due to external perssure as some kind of achievement. blegh look at how much i can hurt myself without caring. I'm Se seeking but there are very overt tendencies in me thinking about the future where a Se ego would just ram their head in a wall bc gronk stronk. Se valuing bc of the kind of aesthetics u choose.
Frank, direct < of course anyone can be frank but there is a tendency to gamma SFs. they can also be manipulative but its not the same gameplay as delta NFs.
Whenever I read what u write icant stop reading it with the voice of ESI I knew as the way of expressoin is just so similar if not the same.
art and porn folders.
as some things are not type specific, there combinations of them that form the pattern that defines a type.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
I see I was giving too much credit when I questioned/wondered whether perhaps it's security or something to you. I don't think it goes that deep after all.
Sorry, I only skimmed through a little. IDK. You just seem very confused most of the time, yet also not receptive. I see it as a waste of my time to bother trying to have a conversation with you in most cases. If you were a better listener, this would more than likely no longer be the case.
You mean the gymnast who hurt herself in the Olympics in the 90s, back when nobody knew that gymnastics coaches were abusive? I was fucking 5 years old, lmao. Everybody misinterpreted that shit, it was all over the news and such, advertised as an act of willpower, courage, and determination. Regardless, you're counting a 5 year old's level of understanding as a point in your typing process. Just…what in the hell?
i'm not sure exactly. there's a bit of a relational void in my life atm, which i think drives me to form/seek connections here. seems that i'm also more active on here in winter than during rest of the year- hibernation stuff? one benefit i can think of is that there seems to be a wider variety of political viewpoints present than what my social media feeds or honestly news intake regularly expose me to. that feels beneficial even if my engagement with expressions of politics here remains at a fairly distant level
*i'm answering for 'time on this forum', btw.
Knowledge of socionics has helped me to stand up to evil people..however I worry that even though I can spot evil more easily now I don’t really have the skills or experience to challenge it successfully. So in some ways I need to not think about socionics too much and engage with wider self-help resources (general psychology knowledge) so I can use that as ammo when facing crappy people. I need a better vocabulary to be able to call people out on stuff and sometimes it feels like my thoughts about socionics can actually prevent me from facing challenging people because I feel like all the other personality types are more powerful than IEI. I feel like I have this crazy secret that people will detect and try to get out of me.
It could just be that I’m going through a weird time at work and people are getting on my nerves. I start worrying that I’ll always have problems with bullies..I need to learn how to deal with them. I don’t know how I dealt with it before :/ Something to think about. I suppose I probably ignored irritating people more but now it feels harder to do that. I should probably still ignore them a bit..but maybe it’s a good thing to challenge them more as you only learn through experience and it’s clearly something that I need to learn in the long run.
edit: when I say evil people I don’t mean evil like someone purely evil-hearted. I just mean people who are act evilly or wrongly towards me, even if it’s only in passing and a temporary dynamic between us.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 01-06-2022 at 12:47 PM.
I've never been called weird here, nor gotten the falsely considerate "you're so... unique!"
a lot of the people I've known irl acted like clones of one other, turns out I tend to gravitate around a certain type
It's nice to be exposed to different opinions without having to dig the web to find them out, I really like diversity of thoughts in my life, makes life so much richer
I'm not even unique, just curious and very average
I also thought of finding another forum, but they are so heavily moderated in general, makes me cringe
some places you can get banned if a mod thinks you're off-topic, wth
of course, this freedom here has downsides, got called stupid and blind for not blindly accepting someone's typing of me, lol
wherever you are is where life is
Edit: oh, I forgot, it's the only place I can talk typology without having to explain everything for weeks, lol
It makes me feel like a special person because it gives me a modicum of self-esteem.
cheap entertainment
poking fun at y'all weirdo's
forsitan mea potentia increvit nimis
Keeping me entertained while in lockdown
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
No. It definitely is not and you know that since I'm not really into intellectual discussions.
But attained resources while reduced every redundancy is something that I considered to be productive.
Last edited by Metaphor; 02-15-2022 at 03:55 AM.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
I joined this place to improve my terrible speaking english, plus learning about socionics. So yeah, it's somehow useful, kind of...
Last edited by Tarnished; 02-15-2022 at 07:12 AM.
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