Fi Base

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Thoughts about 4D Fi, or Fi Base.

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EDIT: Just to clarify that Socionics Fi is different than MBTI Cognitive Function Fi, and to clarify what Fi is...


Personal Note: “friend or enemy,” and “good will or ill will,” are not the same as “for or against” in the sense that people are either one way or another, black and white; such is an unhealthy way of thinking according to the professional field of psychology. That would be similar to narcissistic “splitting,” which is where they perceive people as one way or the other only, thus commencing with valuing/devaluing. Instead, this should be interpreted as an assessment of another's disposition toward themselves/others, and an assessment of whether they are a threat. “What is this person's character like? Is this person going to deceive me? Do they admit when they're wrong, thus taking their share of responsibility and engaging in a healthy 2-way-street relationship?” The existence of ethics such as these within another person are analyzed, assessed, based upon a person's general words and actions. It is through these that a person is able to trace behaviors back to unspoken core beliefs, attitudes, values, ethical standards, and dispositions of another individual. It's basically “reading between the lines” and psychologically evaluating others or “sizing them up,” thereby determining whether there is potential for a connection or an aversion to the individual they assess.

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Clarification: This thread is intended to be about Fi in general, especially in 4D and valued (not demonstrative).
If it derails with other dimensionality a bit here and there, that's fine.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

The way vulnerability ties in with Fi Base sometimes can be pretty weird, but interesting. If looking from the outside in, one may seem pretty trusting of others. Perhaps, in some cases, they are. Truth be told, I'm not so much trusting of others as much as I am trusting of my ability to size them up. In my life I have no toxic, unhealthy relationships, and those who are really don't even get half of a chance with me unless I'm only playing a therapist role to help them grow. I surround myself with healthy people, while allocating the time and resources I can spare to helping those who are well-meaning but unhealthy. (Obviously that entails maintaining the necessary boundaries.) Overall, I'm happy, and I enjoy the relationships in my life. Understanding the inner workings of humans is a form of self-protection. I tend to see the majority of people as naive — not based upon assumptions, which is evident by the fact that most people realize things through experience later.

Other Fi Bases — do you think you tend to see things coming sooner, and are able to avoid unhealthy relationships more often, than low D Fi types?

Maybe this is just too much life experience or being generally healthy rather than just Fi, I don't know. Healthier people don't tend to accept the toxic behaviors of other people into their lives. In order to attract healthy people, you have to be healthy yourself. Thus, why it's important to work on yourself before getting into relationships with others.

[swaddling]

I think it is more like an alarm that is inside you or maybe a compass that tells you what your heart wants kind of like jacks compass. maybe that is the difference between isfp and infp where i make everything apart of my self including people and objects where I have a parasocial relation with my clothes and phone and have them inside me as well as on the outside

[persimmonism]

Other Fi Bases — do you think you tend to see things coming sooner, and are able to avoid unhealthy relationships more often, than low D Fi types?

I chronically assume the best in people/assume the least bad intentions, so I do have moments where it's like, huh, i feel a bit silly-- how did I not see that coming sooner? But I don't tend to have the realization too late along the course of things. Also, I'm able to totally mentally re-orient myself very quickly, making me quite flexible and adaptable in relational situations, so I don't really think it's a big deal that I assume the best.

As for the avoidance of unhealthy relationships -- I think this probably has more to do with nurture than nature.

I love the vulnerability of PoLR Fi, but obviously they don't, so they build up walls and barricades, but I'm in turn good at breaking them down, and I kind of love having that little ability =)

[Averroes]

My Fi manifests as oversensitivity, being overly considerate of others, constantly feeling guilty about benign things and ruminating over how I’ve been wronged by someone but nonetheless putting up with it because I need the paycheck or think their rude behavior was justified on some level

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I think it is more like an alarm that is inside you or maybe a compass that tells you what your heart wants kind of like jacks compass. maybe that is the difference between isfp and infp where i make everything apart of my self including people and objects where I have a parasocial relation with my clothes and phone and have them inside me as well as on the outside

This sounds more like Enneagram 4, which I don't relate to whatsoever. I don't relate to MBTI (Herald Grant) Cognitive Function Fi, either. Take a look at the OP, I have edited in an excerpt about Socionics Fi to clarify. How do you relate to this definition of Fi?

My Fi manifests as oversensitivity, being overly considerate of others, constantly feeling guilty about benign things and ruminating over how I’ve been wronged by someone but nonetheless putting up with it because I need the paycheck or think their rude behavior was justified on some level

I'm not saying it doesn't, but how does this tie in with the OP definition I just now added?

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

As for the avoidance of unhealthy relationships -- I think this probably has more to do with nurture than nature.

I do agree with this, but seeing as how Fi entails a lot of focus on human dynamics, it should also mean Fi Base/4D Fi tends to end up less naive. At least, in theory.

I love the vulnerability of PoLR Fi, but obviously they don't, so they build up walls and barricades, but I'm in turn good at breaking them down, and I kind of love having that little ability =)

Vulnerability? Hmm, that isn't quite how I have experienced interactions with Fi PoLR. They more or less appear elusive and walled up, difficult to truly communicate with on a more intimate and personal level. They tend to avoid discussing their personal feelings or more intimate thoughts, and try to maintain a sense of invulnerability. If conversations such as these are initiated by someone, the overall atmosphere of the interaction becomes either seems stale and awkward, or they deflect from it, etc. If they use deflection, it can sometimes be used at times that make them come off as "insensitive." For example, if you crossed a line into more intimate territory of talking about how you feel, some Fi PoLR individuals might deflect with humor, thus not appearing to care.

Can you elaborate on why/how you perceive Fi PoLR as vulnerability? Perhaps I'm merely seeing things from a different angle than you, or maybe things work differently with Fi PoLRs and IEIs.

[Baqer]

I do agree with this, but seeing as how Fi entails a lot of focus on human dynamics, it should also mean Fi Base/4D Fi tends to end up less naive. At least, in theory.

I have to disagree, Fi polr's aren't more likely to end up in toxic relationships, being aware of your relationships between people or not doesn't change how people who are already comfortable in toxic relationships tend to stay there simply because it's easier for them to understand.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I have to disagree, Fi polr's aren't more likely to end up in toxic relationships, being aware of your relationships between people or not doesn't change how people who are already comfortable in toxic relationships tend to stay there simply because it's easier for them to understand.

What?

I was talking about prevention, not cure. I guess that wasn't as clear as I thought it was. What are your thoughts on that?

[Baqer]

What?

I was talking about prevention, not cure. I guess that wasn't as clear as I thought it was. What are your thoughts on that?

Well I'd say the same thing for prevention. Being an Fi dom doesn't make you more resistant to being sucked into toxic relationships, other things do.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Well I'd say the same thing for prevention. Being an Fi dom doesn't make you more resistant to being sucked into toxic relationships, other things do.

Why? Trying to understand your reasoning, as I have read sources that claim 1D Fi types can be bad at judging character but don't necessarily agree.

[The Reality Denialist]

You'll see some Fi types being family therapists and such (crap ton of IEE's).
So, afaik there is this focus away from the self as it is should be when we talk about the ego. This should not be the point of self preservation which might align more with demonstrative.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi is a J function that judges external activities according to the person’s own moral compass. For example, my coworker broke up with a man who I judge to be terrible example of a father and husband because he is willing to jump from woman to woman in search of a sugar momma. He is not honest and doesn’t put the emotional security of his kids first. My morals are “do right by your kids first and by the person willing to stick their neck out to secure a stable family relationship “

[Baqer]

Why? Trying to understand your reasoning, as I have read sources that claim 1D Fi types can be bad at judging character but don't necessarily agree.

Judging people's characters doesn't seem to be unusually hard for me. It's associated with an awareness that I wouldn't put under Fi. I'd say what Fi polr really is is being uncomfortable while being aware and trying to figure out relationships between yourself and other people. All the complications that arise when trying to figure out your relationship with another person is a pain in the ass, the only thing that Fi polr's really can understand are the Te labels of relationships. Like "I am your friend, so I do this". But this doesn't make Fi polrs any more susceptible to toxic relationships, hell you could even claim that it'd make them more resistant to toxic relationships, since they try to stay away from actually building relationships with people since they like to consider the complex web of friendships and enemies that Fi deals with.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

You'll see some Fi types being family therapists and such (crap ton of IEE's).
So, afaik there is this focus away from the self as it is should be when we talk about the ego. This should not be the point of self preservation which might align more with demonstrative.

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that self-preservation pertains more to demonstrative than base?

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Fi is a J function that judges external activities according to the person’s own moral compass. For example, my coworker broke up with a man who I judge to be terrible example of a father and husband because he is willing to jump from woman to woman in search of a sugar momma. He is not honest and doesn’t put the emotional security of his kids first. My morals are “do right by your kids first and by the person willing to stick their neck out to secure a stable family relationship “

I mean, isn't that just basic common sense and decency, and having your priorities in order? Why would it make any logical sense to do it any other way? Sure, it's 'selfish' to seek that sort of lifestyle rather than prioritizing your kids, so I understand why it can be seen in an ethical light. It's also just the most (objectively) logical mode of operation, though. In this context, what I mean by 'objective,' is that one 'zooms out' to see the overall big picture and detaches from one's own subjective preferences and desires, in order to understand what the best course of action is without regard for what one's biases cause them to wish to do. You could see the humans (including yourself — meaning, you do not regard your own subjective factors as anything higher than others') as no more than objects or chess pieces; still, you'd arrive to the same conclusion if your end goal is “the best possible course of action in this situation, according to what yields the healthiest results for everyone.” When you don't add personal emotions to the equation, you still come up with the same “ethical” result. The question in my mind is…if anything, is it not personal ethics based, and emotionally based, for them to make a choice other than that? It's based on what he values for himself, is it not?

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Judging people's characters doesn't seem to be unusually hard for me. It's associated with an awareness that I wouldn't put under Fi. I'd say what Fi polr really is is being uncomfortable while being aware and trying to figure out relationships between yourself and other people. All the complications that arise when trying to figure out your relationship with another person is a pain in the ass, the only thing that Fi polr's really can understand are the Te labels of relationships. Like "I am your friend, so I do this". But this doesn't make Fi polrs any more susceptible to toxic relationships, hell you could even claim that it'd make them more resistant to toxic relationships, since they try to stay away from actually building relationships with people since they like to consider the complex web of friendships and enemies that Fi deals with.

Can you indulge me for a moment and respond to this? My reason for asking is related to this discussion. (I don't disagree with you, btw, I'm just trying to gather information to consider before I say something else)

FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE
Your significant other just ended your 2 year relationship quite suddenly and with no apparent explanation. Up until this point you had both been talking about marriage and last week you even went to look at rings together. Now he/she won't even return your phone calls or texts. After talking with his/her family you find out that he/she has just been diagnosed with terminal stage 4 cancer.


1) Describe how this scenario would make you feel as well as what sort of influences and motivations lie behind those feelings. Why do you feel the way you do?


2) In this scenario what would you honestly say the primary focus of your feelings would be?

[Baqer]

Can you indulge me for a moment and respond to this? My reason for asking is related to this discussion. (I don't disagree with you, btw, I'm just trying to gather information to consider before I say something else)

FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE
Your significant other just ended your 2 year relationship quite suddenly and with no apparent explanation. Up until this point you had both been talking about marriage and last week you even went to look at rings together. Now he/she won't even return your phone calls or texts. After talking with his/her family you find out that he/she has just been diagnosed with terminal stage 4 cancer.


1) Describe how this scenario would make you feel as well as what sort of influences and motivations lie behind those feelings. Why do you feel the way you do?


2) In this scenario what would you honestly say the primary focus of your feelings would be?

1. A feeling of "Ah fuck", a kind of disappointment with the whole ordeal. A disappointment arisen from having this thing that I've built suddenly broken up. I've managed to find someone who I enjoy being with, and now suddenly I'm back at stage one. Although I will not, I haven't been in a relationship yet, let alone one which I think I'd feel comfortable marrying the person on, so I really have no idea what feeling of connection and loss that I'd have, or how long it'd take to develop. Maybe, 2 years in and confident enough to marry the other person, there would be some love there that would end up feeling like I lost something. Or maybe not. I don't know.
2. Well, depends, if it were the same as all my friendships/other relations with people, then I'd be focused on trying to regain a lost asset and time waster. If not, then it'd depend on if the feeling of love/connection with the other person was strong enough to overpower it. As i've said before, idk just what extent I can feel proper love/connection with someone since I've never done it before. The farthest I've ever got is a close friendship with an IEI, farther than that I really can't tell you for sure.

[The Reality Denialist]

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that self-preservation pertains more to demonstrative than base?

Afaik, SEI's seem to own Fi in that respect. Collection of relations [Ne support].
IEI's seem to be quite depended in their selected relations [Se support].

There is this draw towards suggestive.

[inaLim]

FWIW EII v ESI base Fi are pretty different IRL. So are ILE and SLE Fi PoLR, so I'll comment

I haven't had this exact situation, but a few close

1) In these situations I feel resignation at first (2nd the "Ah Fuck"), then a mix of urgency, excitement (from the urgency), and vigilance. Its more of a reflex protector instinct than based on influences or motives. You might attribute influence/motive to the protector instinct itself though. Anyway, its the same response for everyone, just way more intense for someone who is "mine". For someone more distant, I might just feel resignation. If she is the type I understand well, then I feel determination to make her remaining time special. If I don't understand her well, then I feel uncertainty, lost, and futility.

2) My focus is on the other person's spirits. My own feeling is nothingness (emptiness, drained), finality. If the person has a good relationship with death, then I just feel acceptance and peace. My primary focus would not be my feelings, how I feel about it, or the relationship. Its not like a wasted investment, for me, its like absence of something that should be present. Like a half-moved out apartment with bare walls and too much empty space.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Afaik, SEI's seem to own Fi in that respect. Collection of relations [Ne support].
IEI's seem to be quite depended in their selected relations [Se support].

There is this draw towards suggestive.

Why wouldn't someone be drawn toward utilizing their base IE for self-preservation? Isn't that kind of like being right-handed but wielding a weapon with your left? Why wouldn't you use what you are best with and most comfortable with?

[Beautiful sky]

I mean, isn't that just basic common sense and decency, and having your priorities in order? Why would it make any logical sense to do it any other way? Sure, it's 'selfish' to seek that sort of lifestyle rather than prioritizing your kids, so I understand why it can be seen in an ethical light. It's also just the most (objectively) logical mode of operation, though. In this context, what I mean by 'objective,' is that one 'zooms out' to see the overall big picture and detaches from one's own subjective preferences and desires, in order to understand what the best course of action is without regard for what one's biases cause them to wish to do. You could see the humans (including yourself — meaning, you do not regard your own subjective factors as anything higher than others') as no more than objects or chess pieces; still, you'd arrive to the same conclusion if your end goal is “the best possible course of action in this situation, according to what yields the healthiest results for everyone.” When you don't add personal emotions to the equation, you still come up with the same “ethical” result. The question in my mind is…if anything, is it not personal ethics based, and emotionally based, for them to make a choice other than that? It's based on what he values for himself, is it not?

To one who follows or sees the same morals what I said seems logical and natural. Maybe not to someone else who sees more moral aspects and reads into it further that they would raise issues with the character judgements I made

[Metaphor]

So, basically, Introverted Ethics deals with the relation of people in the realm of interpersonal relationship. When it's 4D if we were to follow the dimensionality aspect, it'd be Ex + Nr + St + T, in which means, they have a very dense opinion about what they consider as "good" or "bad" according to the certain relationship that they've faced while also understood that not every facet that people do have in a society reflect the actual facet of person in general, and that's how Fi + Fe decipher a person as a portrayal of attachment.

[The Reality Denialist]

Why wouldn't someone be drawn toward utilizing their base IE for self-preservation? Isn't that kind of like being right-handed but wielding a weapon with your left? Why wouldn't you use what you are best with and most comfortable with?

Isn't it the tool for exploration? Being brave and stuff.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It's been said via that Expat article that Fe reads between the lines but I think Fi helps 'read between the lines' when thought of as connected to Te because Te in-a-vacuum is so goddamn awful about reading between the lines of anything- it is so hyperliteral and objective etc that Fi helps balance this weakness that Te has. So Fe/Ti still 'reads between the lines' better as a whole but Fi can help balance/smooth that out with Te. That's how I understood what you meant.

The first part of what you said- it's easy to say those things from the comfortable intellectual distance of one's own computer but in reality sometimes you meet somebody and just want to repeatedly punch them in the face because you dislike them so much. It's not really about right or wrong- but I think this is a Fi thing- you are just so repulsed by them so much you must annihiliate their existance because it cannot bind with your own - and you either care about it or it's so strong that you can't really ignore it - or both. Me and another IEI male talk about this a lot lol how sometimes you just meet somebody you want to punch in their face and you might not know why or explain it logically- that can be Fi.

[Beautiful sky]

That is all about one’s own attitude about people and their actions which is the essence of Fi, aka judgements; these judgements change with experience

[Beautiful sky]

Fe to me is more about having good relationship and putting aside ones attitudes

[Tallmo]

Fe to me is more about having good relationship and putting aside ones attitudes

Yes, the attitude, or values comes from what's socially desirable. They have attitude, but it is a social attitude.

[CptLandhawk]

It's been said via that Expat article that Fe reads between the lines but I think Fi helps 'read between the lines' when thought of as connected to Te because Te in-a-vacuum is so goddamn awful about reading between the lines of anything- it is so hyperliteral and objective etc that Fi helps balance this weakness that Te has. So Fe/Ti still 'reads between the lines' better as a whole but Fi can help balance/smooth that out with Te. That's how I understood what you meant.

The first part of what you said- it's easy to say those things from the comfortable intellectual distance of one's own computer but in reality sometimes you meet somebody and just want to repeatedly punch them in the face because you dislike them so much. It's not really about right or wrong- but I think this is a Fi thing- you are just so repulsed by them so much you must annihiliate their existance because it cannot bind with your own - and you either care about it or it's so strong that you can't really ignore it - or both. Me and another IEI male talk about this a lot lol how sometimes you just meet somebody you want to punch in their face and you might not know why or explain it logically- that can be Fi.

That may be the case with your Fi. When I dislike someone I quickly Identify what I saw, or heard, or what they did, whether or not it's a habit, and how It relates to me. Emphasis on "how It relates to me" because at the end of the day that's the staple of Fi. If you can't pinpoint why the thing another person did is intolerable in your eyes, when it comes to your person, not external rules or other markers, then I struggle to see how that's Fi.

Of course you can't just go by what your emotions tell you the very second you meet someone In order to do that. First impressions don't really account for much with me, and me being Se base might have something to do with that. That being said a random emotive pang based upon first impression seems more like an Fe thing.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Of course you can't just go by what your emotions tell you the very second you meet someone In order to do that.

Nah of course not- this type of thing also is something that happens naturally with time (Ni)

Anyway it fits the definition of Fi because it's about a strong repulsion so it's not really just 'my' Fi =p.

If you can't pinpoint why the thing another person did is intolerable in your eyes, when it comes to your person, not external rules or other markers, then I struggle to see how that's Fi.

I can pin point it rather easily - but I don't really mentally masturbate over the reason like other people do probably because I don't value Fi and Fe naturally looks more for the common ground anyway. I pay more attention to the primal emotion. Paying extra attention to it is asking me to strain over something I don't really value anyway.

[CptLandhawk]

Well, you did say earlier that you sometimes don't know why you wanna punch someone upon first meeting them, and then you said that specifically could be Fi, which is why I made my point about your own Fi maybe not making the association between the repulsion and a reason right away, but Fi in a higher priority slot would.

All in all it sounds like we might be on the same page though

[Tallmo]

That may be the case with your Fi. When I dislike someone I quickly Identify what I saw, or heard, or what they did, whether or not it's a habit, and how It relates to me. Emphasis on "how It relates to me" because at the end of the day that's the staple of Fi. If you can't pinpoint why the thing another person did is intolerable in your eyes, when it comes to your person, not external rules or other markers, then I struggle to see how that's Fi.

It's actually the opposite imo. Fi just lets you know how you value something, but not why. The basis for Fi is the inner psychic framework, but the person himself is not aware of this. The feeling just develops deeper and gives a rock solid attitude (as a base function). You need an analytical T type to analyze why.

Introverted functions are not personal. This has been brought up before. They are linked to the unconscious psyche. For example Ni is not personal intuitions, but rather impersonal symbolic perception.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

1. A feeling of "Ah fuck", a kind of disappointment with the whole ordeal. A disappointment arisen from having this thing that I've built suddenly broken up. I've managed to find someone who I enjoy being with, and now suddenly I'm back at stage one. Although I will not, I haven't been in a relationship yet, let alone one which I think I'd feel comfortable marrying the person on, so I really have no idea what feeling of connection and loss that I'd have, or how long it'd take to develop. Maybe, 2 years in and confident enough to marry the other person, there would be some love there that would end up feeling like I lost something. Or maybe not. I don't know.
2. Well, depends, if it were the same as all my friendships/other relations with people, then I'd be focused on trying to regain a lost asset and time waster. If not, then it'd depend on if the feeling of love/connection with the other person was strong enough to overpower it. As i've said before, idk just what extent I can feel proper love/connection with someone since I've never done it before. The farthest I've ever got is a close friendship with an IEI, farther than that I really can't tell you for sure.

I wasn't expecting you to respond that you don't have relationship experience, that sort of messed up what I was trying to go for. Uhhh...well, it'll be more difficult to explain now, but the TLDR version is that in theory, if someone sees into the relationship dynamics more easily, wouldn't they probably be able to pick up on things earlier on?

[PinKDiGiT18]

Well I'd say the same thing for prevention. Being an Fi dom doesn't make you more resistant to being sucked into toxic relationships, other things do.

I'd say in some cases it can even increase your likelihood of getting sucked into toxic relationships

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I'd say in some cases it can even increase your likelihood of getting sucked into toxic relationships

Howso?

[persimmonism]

I do agree with this, but seeing as how Fi entails a lot of focus on human dynamics, it should also mean Fi Base/4D Fi tends to end up less naive. At least, in theory.

In some ways yes, but i don't know.. based on experience, Fi bases tend be naive and vulnerable towards unhealthy relationships in their own ways.

Vulnerability? Hmm, that isn't quite how I have experienced interactions with Fi PoLR. They more or less appear elusive and walled up, difficult to truly communicate with on a more intimate and personal level. They tend to avoid discussing their personal feelings or more intimate thoughts, and try to maintain a sense of invulnerability. If conversations such as these are initiated by someone, the overall atmosphere of the interaction becomes either seems stale and awkward, or they deflect from it, etc. If they use deflection, it can sometimes be used at times that make them come off as "insensitive." For example, if you crossed a line into more intimate territory of talking about how you feel, some Fi PoLR individuals might deflect with humor, thus not appearing to care.

Can you elaborate on why/how you perceive Fi PoLR as vulnerability? Perhaps I'm merely seeing things from a different angle than you, or maybe things work differently with Fi PoLRs and IEIs.

By definition, any PoLR is a vulnerability since it's weak and painful, a sore spot. suggestive is solely weak.
Well, I think that Fi demo is best oriented towards (& you could argue, designed for,) dealing with Fi PoLR, and it makes sense that as a Fi base you would have difficulty with communicating with them on a deeper level.
xEI relate with xLE through Fe not Fi, which doesn't hit their PoLR. Also, we understand things through Ti rather than Fi, which makes it so I don't care about the fact they're weak in it. Also, as BandD says, the PoLR is like a "sexy vulnerability" to the person holding the same IE in their demo. How do you view the Si PoLR of xIE? Do you find it attractive on some level?

Yes, the humor deflection is definitely real and kinda annoying. In those cases i tend to do something like give a face and be like, "bro stop deflecting," then insist in however way i think would make them feel most comfortable.
When they act insensitive towards me, unless it's actually pretty bad or it hits a nerve, I tend to just.. not care? I usually point it out, make fun of them, crack a joke about it, return the insensitivity etc.. but as you can see this is pretty clear Fe>Fi valuing. I don't really want to deal with Fi stuff either, really. This doesn't mean that we can't communicate deeply about emotional things, though. It's just not done via a Fi filter.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

In some ways yes, but i don't know.. based on experience, Fi bases tend be naive and vulnerable towards unhealthy relationships in their own ways.

Can you elaborate on this? Thus far, no one who has said this has provided an explanation of their thoughts/reasoning.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

By definition, any PoLR is a vulnerability since it's weak and painful, a sore spot. suggestive is solely weak.

True. I guess what I was seeing was simply the defenses protecting the vulnerability...which would not even be there if not for there being a vulnerability present to begin with. Thanks, that helped clear that up.

Well, I think that Fi demo is best oriented towards (& you could argue, designed for,) dealing with Fi PoLR, and it makes sense that as a Fi base you would have difficulty with communicating with them on a deeper level.

xEI relate with xLE through Fe not Fi, which doesn't hit their PoLR. Also, we understand things through Ti rather than Fi, which makes it so I don't care about the fact they're weak in it.

Re: the bolded — this is exactly what I had in mind, and I'm curious as to how an xEI would experience someone's Fi PoLR in contrast to the way that I experience their Fi PoLR. Being base Fi, I'm likely going to bump into it and experience them defending their vulnerability more, as I described. I want to know what it is like for someone who is not provoking such a reaction, and why it can even seem endearing to them (it definitely doesn't to me and I want to understand what it's like in someone else's shoes). Something beyond the formulaic description you gave below; more like an example of an actual situation that happened in daily life. I prefer starting with the more concrete details and deriving my own insights/perceptions from them (and determining whether I think the formula is consistent with those actions) myself.

Also, as BandD says, the PoLR is like a "sexy vulnerability" to the person holding the same IE in their demo. How do you view the Si PoLR of xIE? Do you find it attractive on some level?

...I can't make a generalization, as I'm pretty sure my current partner this is the only LIE I've even been with. When I think of Si PoLR in him, I guess “sexy” isn't what I would call it, but I guess it's sort of endearing to some extent. “Lol, you big dork,” kind of reaction. I like to playfully tease him about it in some ways also, but in a warm/smiling, gentle, endearing way. I suppose I find it kind of funny, lol.

Hmm...I always want to make his ass sleep more, lol. I feel like my approach to getting him to do that is something along the lines of holding up shiny warm Fi affection distraction with one hand to make him relax, while he won't notice I've low-key got "NOW SLEEP, BITCH" in the other. Lmaooo. Like Jesus, you're a human being and you need sleep so you can function properly, lol why are you like this? Smh, dork.

@Comparticularly Mental
Don't you get upset about my Ne PoLR though?

Yes, the humor deflection is definitely real and kinda annoying. In those cases i tend to do something like give a face and be like, "bro stop deflecting," then insist in however way i think would make them feel most comfortable.

Yesss, lmao...so it annoys someone who prefers Fe, too, not just me. Interesting. I once quit contacting a friend because of not having as clear of a picture of what was going on with that as I do now, not understanding that perhaps my approach just wasn't right for them. I just thought I was hitting a wall, so I got irritated and fed up, walked away from the (platonic) relationship because it seemed impossible, thus I finally reached a point where I was just...


I think now...I just don't get too upset about being unable to close the distance with that person. I'm more sympathetic and understanding toward them in that department.

When they act insensitive towards me, unless it's actually pretty bad or it hits a nerve, I tend to just.. not care? I usually point it out, make fun of them, crack a joke about it, return the insensitivity etc.. but as you can see this is pretty clear Fe>Fi valuing. I don't really want to deal with Fi stuff either, really. This doesn't mean that we can't communicate deeply about emotional things, though. It's just not done via a Fi filter.

I wonder what you specifically mean by this. I don't really see myself as sensitive, but I also know that word can be interpreted in several ways; I'm open to the consideration that we are thinking of the word in different ways and perhaps whatever one you're thinking about may be accurate. Can you clarify?

[persimmonism]

Can you elaborate on this? Thus far, no one who has said this has provided an explanation of their thoughts/reasoning.

Hm.. perhaps it's a mix of idealism about people and strong loyalty.
In my observation both EII and ESI can be pretty idealistic about people. EII has that trademark introverted NF idealism whereas certain ESIs, usually younger ones and ESI-Fi, can have a simultaneously pessimistic yet optimistic hopefulness about people? Not sure how to put my finger on it..
Fi bases are also very loyal! (or at least, very steady with Fi sentiments. not sure how to phrase this. contrast it with flexible/fickle Fi demo sentiments, do you get what i mean?)
and once they're in a relationship with someone, I can imagine that it can be quite hard to leave. For ESIs, I've also seen how Ne PoLR gives them a harder time seeing how things could (and should) be different, especially if this is their first relationship or they've never known a properly healthy relationship. To me, it comes across as slight naivety/vulnerability since a lot of the idealism can come from Fi base paired with Ni HA. But unlike with EIIs, Ni is only 2D which means Ne is 1D. This is where the strong Se reality assessment should kick in, but especially in the case with female ESIs, I think society can make them suppress their Se.

[Crabbybaby]

I agree, I've always contributed my lack of bad experiences to luck, seeing as I've been in many situations where I easily could have found myself in danger. But I've steered away from certain people using my intuition, and I usually warn others around me about people who's giving me a bad wibe. I see romantic relationships between people go sideways, but somehow I see a lot more potential in my own.. Lol