Typology Random Thoughts

[FreelancePoliceman]

I agree with C&M in that the saying nice things about everyone all the time sounds less like an ILE and more like an Fe ego. I have known one ILE I'd describe as being particularly "nice" and seems to like most people, but his attempts to express this "niceness" are generally clumsy. He, and ILEs in general, don't seem like they'd be able to easily give heartfelt compliments this frequently either. But the way in which Strange's guy lives with his ex-wife does seem infantile, so I personally give the benefit of the doubt to that typing.


Out of curiosity Strange, do you know the type of the girl he divorced?


Edit: I'm not claiming to be a great typer, but personally, given that description, I'd think EIE over ESE. I think ESEs tend to be more guarded or cautious, at least in the sense that they don't seem as unreservedly friendly as EIEs can be. Not that they aren't generally friendly or express Fe all the time, but I think the difference between the types' use of it boils down to ESEs using it more as a tool (for instance to say the right words when calming someone down), while EIEs actually seem to invest themselves (to an extent) in their use of it, as if they truly believe the full force of what they express. Not that EIEs can't be duplicitous, but I think on some level they actually are more caught up in the force of their feeling, even if they direct it to other ends.

[Adam Strange]

I agree with C&M in that the saying nice things about everyone all the time sounds less like an ILE and more like an Fe ego. I have known one ILE I'd describe as being particularly "nice" and seems to like most people, but his attempts to express this "niceness" are generally clumsy. He, and ILEs in general, don't seem like they'd be able to easily give heartfelt compliments this frequently either. But the way in which Strange's guy lives with his ex-wife does seem infantile, so I personally give the benefit of the doubt to that typing.


Out of curiosity Strange, do you know the type of the girl he divorced?

@FreelancePoliceman, I have no idea of her type. I barely remember his HS sweetheart, later wife, later ex-wife, except that she seemed to me at the time to be made out of cardboard. I was completely uninterested in her.

I first heard about his first marriage and divorce this afternoon. Never met the woman.

And I'm inclined to doubt the ILE typing too, now that both you and @COOL AND MANLY pointed out the flaws in my analysis. The guy is really smooth with public relations. I don't think he did all that great in the science courses he took, hence the law trajectory. My cousin said he champions the little guy. Maybe the playhouse is just a convenience. Maybe he is ESE. IDK.

[Adam Strange]

What type is the guy in the video (not Jay Leno)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGVcJrEJW7E

[Alonzo]

What type is the guy in the video (not Jay Leno)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGVcJrEJW7E

LII.

Se PoLR types stand out to me. Gulenko describes the Se state of mind as being fully self-possessed and confident, having a solid grounding, with little bodily movement but firmly committed when there is. And the guy in the video gives subzero fucks about any of that, almost as if he's running away from it, energetically and corporeally speaking.

How are you with "sizing people up?" An aspect of Se is concerned with the perception of strength/weakness, accurately "weighing" an object, gauging how balanced it is and its capacity for mobilizing its force. Perhaps it's a mixture of being Se valuing, Se mobilizing AND an enneagram 8, but I find that it's fairly common and easy for me to go into this state of mind--that doesn't mean that I actually know what to do with that information, as in how to most effectively utilize it, but I'm definitely taking it in.

[Adam Strange]

LII.

Se PoLR types stand out to me. Gulenko describes the Se state of mind as being fully self-possessed and confident, having a solid grounding, with little bodily movement but firmly committed when there is. And the guy in the video gives subzero fucks about any of that, almost as if he's running away from it, energetically and corporeally speaking.

How are you with "sizing people up?" An aspect of Se is concerned with the perception of strength/weakness, accurately "weighing" an object, gauging how balanced it is and its capacity for mobilizing its force. Perhaps it's a mixture of being Se valuing, Se mobilizing AND an enneagram 8, but I find that it's fairly common and easy for me to go into this state of mind--that doesn't mean that I actually know what to do with that information, as in how to most effectively utilize it, but I'm definitely taking it in.

Thanks, @Alonzo.

The reason I asked is because the guy in the video is running the same software as a guy who works for one of our customers. He was recently promoted to a position of major responsibility, but I’ve only interacted with him a few times in meetings.

I like him, but he seems remote and strangely analytical, and you are right about the Se-PoLR thing. While he is good at running meetings and staying organized, he seems to flee from one-on-one interactions.

I thought he was a highly introverted and slightly strange LIE, just based on the fact that he’s logical and I like him, but LII makes much more sense.

Incidentally, the guy in the video and Jay Leno get along great. It is interesting to watch the two of them in conversation. They seem to be seamless. There was an interesting point where Jay purposefully drops the hood of the guy’s car hard to close it and the guy is visibly pissed, but doesn’t call Jay out on it and Jay looks satisfied and acts even more warmly towards the guy after that.
I type Jay as an ESE.

[sbbds]

Ego and super ego

[The Reality Denialist]

Ego and super ego

How bout super-id?

[Hope]

My biggest confoundment is how people do not use comparative analysis when self-typing. (It's as if comparison is not valid for typology somehow - weak Ne?)

That is: Are you more like Person1 who is XXX, or like Person2 who is YYY?


(Of course, sometimes there is not consensus on XXX vs YYY for a Person# among Professionals(!!!), but most times there is. consensus != unanimous consensus btw; consensus = strong majority agreement)

Ppl don't like/tend to read. And even when they read something they can also lack comprehension skills.

[Hux]

How is Fi+ and Fe- like?

[Hux]

I typed this friend of mine as LSI, and she's that kind of quiet person that wants to fit in and likes a good emotional atmosphere. (She's very receptive to people trying to joke and cheer her up in a positive bubbly manner) But sometimes this conflicts with me since I don't care as much about whether I'm very socially accepted, as long as I maintain superficial friendly relations but she'll drag and keep looking around to see what others are doing so she can follow whatever they are doing. Wonder if that's Fe seeking. But with me she's less smiley and more analytical. Hm.

[Itsme]

I typed this friend of mine as LSI, and she's that kind of quiet person that wants to fit in and likes a good emotional atmosphere. (She's very receptive to people trying to joke and cheer her up in a positive bubbly manner) But sometimes this conflicts with me since I don't care as much about whether I'm very socially accepted, as long as I maintain superficial friendly relations but she'll drag and keep looking around to see what others are doing so she can follow whatever they are doing. Wonder if that's Fe seeking. But with me she's less smiley and more analytical. Hm.

Could be an SO/SP stacking and high affiliation motive, even though i imagine this to be more common with Fe valuers i would not think about it as that much type related.

---

How do i differentiate between usual ESI behavior and an ESI with avoidant attachment style? @Adam Strange

[Adam Strange]

Could be an SO/SP stacking and high affiliation motive, even though i imagine this to be more common with Fe valuers i would not think about it as that much type related.

---

How do i differentiate between usual ESI behavior and an ESI with avoidant attachment style? @Adam Strange

Time, mainly. In my experience, both of them will be stand-offish for the first few hours of interaction, but then their behaviors diverge after a week or so. If you aren't making progress after two weeks of frequent exposure, then you are trying to turn the tide. Give up.

Without generalizing, let me just state what my experience has been with the two types. After I assessed the situation (to see if I could imagine them in my life in any way) and finally approached them and asked them out after interacting with them for a few hours total, both of them agreed to go out with me.

The "normal" ESI absolutely jumped at the invitation. She said "Yes" before I finished the sentence. I had been briefly and breezily talking to her every day for a week, I looked good, I was wearing a suit, I knew people that she knew, she made a foray into my work area to check things out for herself, and I asked her. We set a time and she showed up and we had fun. We went out several more times, until I determined that she was so-first and sx-last and I didn't want to continue, because (as I told her) I wasn't as interested in public events as she was. She would be better off with a LIE politician.

The "avoidant" ESI was reluctant and agreed to go out sometime, but was a no-show for the first date and then she just refused to go out after repeated invitations, for about a year, until she did actually go out with me. I thought we both had a good time and she looked great. And then she never went out with me again. She still texts me sometimes, but declines invitations to go out again. It could be that she just doesn't see us as a match.
I call her avoidant because she's 44 and has never been married, but she is also at a stage in her life (which might last forever) where she is attracted to the wrong guys. SLI's and ILI's. Her father is SLI and she has a married male ILI friend whom she pines for. Perfectly convenient for an Avoidant. I'm just not willing to wait for her to correct those notions by letting her live with an SLI or an ILI for a few years and let her see how that goes in the real world. Nor am I interested in always being the one to initiate with an Avoidant, while she constantly tries to be somewhere else.

ESI's are super-suspicious (low Ni) and since they are sensors, they assume that the only reason you want to go out with them is to have sex right away this instant and then you'll move on to the next victim. So there's that. The only way to counter that is to show them that you are interested in being a friend first. So you first have to actually be interested in them, as a person.

The non-avoidant ESI will jump at the rabbit at first, but then will start to think. She will start worrying (low Ni again), start dragging her feet while watching your performance, but will continue to interact with you to collect Se data. You might be surprised at how much she likes you, while she doesn't exactly say that.

The avoidant ESI might like you (avoidants need love, too), but she will always stay on the far side of the relationship, and it probably won't get intimate. If you feel like you are working too hard on the relationship, then you probably are.

[Itsme]

Time, mainly. In my experience, both of them will be stand-offish for the first few hours of interaction, but then their behaviors diverge after a week or so. If you aren't making progress after two weeks of frequent exposure, then you are trying to turn the tide. Give up.

Without generalizing, let me just state what my experience has been with the two types. After I assessed the situation (to see if I could imagine them in my life in any way) and finally approached them and asked them out after interacting with them for a few hours total, both of them agreed to go out with me.

The "normal" ESI absolutely jumped at the invitation. She said "Yes" before I finished the sentence. I had been briefly and breezily talking to her every day for a week, I looked good, I was wearing a suit, I knew people that she knew, she made a foray into my work area to check things out for herself, and I asked her. We set a time and she showed up and we had fun. We went out several more times, until I determined that she was so-first and sx-last and I didn't want to continue, because (as I told her) I wasn't as interested in public events as she was. She would be better off with a LIE politician.

The "avoidant" ESI was reluctant and agreed to go out sometime, but was a no-show for the first date and then she just refused to go out after repeated invitations, for about a year, until she did actually go out with me. I thought we both had a good time and she looked great. And then she never went out with me again. She still texts me sometimes, but declines invitations to go out again. It could be that she just doesn't see us as a match.
I call her avoidant because she's 44 and has never been married, but she is also at a stage in her life (which might last forever) where she is attracted to the wrong guys. SLI's and ILI's. Her father is SLI and she has a married male ILI friend whom she pines for. Perfectly convenient for an Avoidant. I'm just not willing to wait for her to correct those notions by letting her live with an SLI or an ILI for a few years and let her see how that goes in the real world. Nor am I interested in always being the one to initiate with an Avoidant, while she constantly tries to be somewhere else.

ESI's are super-suspicious (low Ni) and since they are sensors, they assume that the only reason you want to go out with them is to have sex right away this instant and then you'll move on to the next victim. So there's that. The only way to counter that is to show them that you are interested in being a friend first. So you first have to actually be interested in them, as a person.

The non-avoidant ESI will jump at the rabbit at first, but then will start to think. She will start worrying (low Ni again), start dragging her feet while watching your performance, but will continue to interact with you to collect Se data. You might be surprised at how much she likes you, while she doesn't exactly say that.

The avoidant ESI might like you (avoidants need love, too), but she will always stay on the far side of the relationship, and it probably won't get intimate. If you feel like you are working too hard on the relationship, then you probably are.

Thank you very much, this is extremely helpful and i see a lot of those patterns happening in front of me, others i have already assumed and read but wasn't sure about it.
I will have to be patient eventually i will find out with her.
Things seem to make sense that way, i am actually in good spirits right now.

[Adam Strange]

Thank you very much, this is extremely helpful and i see a lot of those patterns happening in front of me, others i have already assumed and read but wasn't sure about it.
I will have to be patient eventually i will find out with her.
Things seem to make sense that way, i am actually in good spirits right now.

Don't be too patient. Persistence is overrated.

[Itsme]

Don't be too patient. Persistence is overrated.

Trying not to be, but she somehow knows how to push my buttons. I won't wait for her but Quarantine makes it difficult to get to know other people. Also she now has exposure to me and seems to finally understand things. But yes, i should not idealize, not doing, but i've actually catched feelings i think. I can't help but to like her. I will be fine but sunk cost effect really is a **** in courtship. As soon as i pass by another promising ESI i will try to put some eggs into this basket too, she had her chance for exclusivity and will have to make a decision to have it again. Not that much a danger considering that her potential competition is other ESIs though, she has time i guess..

[sbbds]

I told my ILE that his neuroticism over little things deeply bothered me and he actually seemed to immediately be able to stop and change that. I still feel internally conflicted myself though, and don’t feel like it’s enough.

[Rusal]

An encounter I had. We were a party of 10 people sitting in a restaurant. He had the habit of interjecting witty comments about people he interacted with whenever he could in a joking manner. Quick at noticing things about people and situations, but his comments were overall funny and innocent, delivered in a way that seemed to belong to a people's person, not shy at all and with good timing. Innocent except one time when he turned to my superior and asked the whereabouts of the person who formerly held my position and added that this person was the best for the job. While I was there sitting in between them. But I realized it hadn't been on purpose. Young, curious and sheltered, he kept asking us to tell him what our food and drinks consisted of, describe all the ingredients to him and give him suggestions form musicians to check out. Always prodding with questions. He unceremoniously looked at my phone screen to see what I was doing. A stem student.

What type and I describing?

[Adam Strange]

An encounter I had. We were a party of 10 people sitting in a restaurant. He had the habit of interjecting witty comments about people he interacted with whenever he could in a joking manner. Quick at noticing things about people and situations, but his comments were overall funny and innocent, delivered in a way that seemed to belong to a people's person, not shy at all and with good timing. Innocent except one time when he turned to my superior and asked the whereabouts of the person who formerly held my position and added that this person was the best for the job. While I was there sitting in between them. But I realized it hadn't been on purpose. Young, curious and sheltered, he kept asking us to tell him what our food and drinks consisted of, describe all the ingredients to him and give him suggestions form musicians to check out. Always prodding with questions. He unceremoniously looked at my phone screen to see what I was doing. A stem student.

What type and I describing?

He sounds ILE to me, honestly.

Curious and questioning implies Ti. Funny comments, easy interactions with people implies Fe, Nosing into your cell phone and thoughtless comments about your qualifications implies being clueless about Fi. Interested in food and musical recommendations is Si. So he could be any Alpha, but the curiosity and personal cluelessness are traits I've seen most obviously in ILE's.
They can be like little kids sometimes. "Oh, does this bother you? Why?"

[Northstar]

Sounds like ILE to me as well. I've noticed that they often have some very specific food(s) they hate. And overall at the same time being picky eaters but able to eat some disgusting stuff. Also, eating too much of something they like and then feeling unwell. All in all, very infantile relationship to eating.

[Rusal]

He sounds ILE to me, honestly.

Curious and questioning implies Ti. Funny comments, easy interactions with people implies Fe, Nosing into your cell phone and thoughtless comments about your qualifications implies being clueless about Fi. Interested in food and musical recommendations is Si. So he could be any Alpha, but the curiosity and personal cluelessness are traits I've seen most obviously in ILE's.
They can be like little kids sometimes. "Oh, does this bother you? Why?"

Thank you. I was undecided whether ILE or IEE for him. I think I mentioned him before, and I bring him up because I read the Conan O’Brien thread and saw LIE proposed by some. If that were the case, I was reacting too well to my conflictor (O’Brien), if we go by the socionics creed. Part of the reasoning offered for LIE was that ILEs could be jerks (unbeknown to themselves ) while LIEs were careful with their Fi, and O’Brien’s comedy was not rude at all. But neither were this guy’s funny comments, only that slip of the tongue, and I was getting o’brienesque vibes from him. Even the cadence of his speech and the timbre of his voice, but that makes sense if you’re to be first one to make an observation and you’ve internalized how to project your voice so that it’s audible (mind you, in Spanish this time).

So that settles it for me. O’Brien ILE (more likely) or IEE (or ESE?). No way LIE.

I’ll take the opportunity, since we’re talking LIE, Adam, and say that your willingness to help and thoughtfulness come across very noticeably and matches the vibe I’ve got from short interaction with another LIE. Very considerate. I’ve also noticed that some of the things you focus on are not necessarily what I’d choose to focus on, based on the fact that they seem not that important to me of that I’ve them covered to some extent. I can see how, in IRL, prolonged exposure to one another could lead to a sense of saturation ('shaddap with your advice! I know that!'). You’d find me suffocating AF haha. In case you were interested in how a conflictor sees you from a distance.

All in all, very infantile relationship to eating.

This one seemed really sheltered and had no understanding of the real worth of money. One moment he talked projects and prospects with the seriousness of a 40-year old man and in the next he’d turn to you and ask you what’s the drink you’re having (insert the most prosaic drink name here) and then what’s in it. “It’s a Cuba Libre…rum and coke”. Dude didn’t even try to save face, he’d just take in the information with an open expression and then back to his suave 40-year-old persona. These two sentences from an ILE-Ti description suit him well: “His behavior is unpredictable and full of contrasts. His gaze is at times scattered and at other times testing and tenacious.”

[Adam Strange]

Thank you. I was undecided whether ILE or IEE for him. I think I mentioned him before, and I bring him up because I read the Conan O’Brien thread and saw LIE proposed by some. If that were the case, I was reacting too well to my conflictor (O’Brien), if we go by the socionics creed. Part of the reasoning offered for LIE was that ILEs could be jerks (unbeknown to themselves ) while LIEs were careful with their Fi, and O’Brien’s comedy was not rude at all. But neither were this guy’s funny comments, only that slip of the tongue, and I was getting o’brienesque vibes from him. Even the cadence of his speech and the timbre of his voice, but that makes sense if you’re to be first one to make an observation and you’ve internalized how to project your voice so that it’s audible (mind you, in Spanish this time).

So that settles it for me. O’Brien ILE (more likely) or IEE (or ESE?). No way LIE.

I’ll take the opportunity, since we’re talking LIE, Adam, and say that your willingness to help and thoughtfulness come across very noticeably and matches the vibe I’ve got from short interaction with another LIE. Very considerate. I’ve also noticed that some of the things you focus on are not necessarily what I’d choose to focus on, based on the fact that they seem not that important to me of that I’ve them covered to some extent. I can see how, in IRL, prolonged exposure to one another could lead to a sense of saturation ('shaddap with your advice! I know that!'). You’d find me suffocating AF haha. In case you were interested in how a conflictor sees you from a distance.



This one seemed really sheltered and had no understanding of the real worth of money. One moment he talked projects and prospects with the seriousness of a 40-year old man and in the next he’d turn to you and ask you what’s the drink you’re having (insert the most prosaic drink name here) and then what’s in it. “It’s a Cuba Libre…rum and coke”. Dude didn’t even try to save face, he’d just take in the information with an open expression and then back to his suave 40-year-old persona. These two sentences from an ILE-Ti description suit him well: “His behavior is unpredictable and full of contrasts. His gaze is at times scattered and at other times testing and tenacious.”

Thanks, @Rusal. I appreciate your kind words. And yeah, no way is Conan O'Brien LIE. Kimmel is LIE, but Conan is ILE.

I actually really like the SEI-Fe that I work with. She's competent, sensible, kind and considerate, and she dresses well and looks great. She makes a terrific impression on visitors. I think, on some level, I kind of seek Si, especially since I married my SLI ex partly based on the way she dressed, and decorated her apartment. So the Si of SEI's is something that I marvel at.
I also worked with an SEI-Si, and that did not go so well. She hated me, seemingly just because I kept breathing.

As for how I appear to my Conflictors, I already know that I can't say much to them before they just recoil in horror. I completely understand. I get around that by being unfailingly professional, staying six feet away from them at all times, and by keeping my conversations as short as possible. I view my time with SEI's as being similar to being close to a source of intense radiation. Don't get too close and don't stay too long. Radiation damage accumulates and is slow to repair. Other than that, I think SEI's are great. I sincerely wish they weren't my Conflictors, because they have so many good qualities.

The only thing that I can imagine might bother me about the SEI-Fe that I work with, if we spent a lot of time together, is that she is a natural mother, and I kind of want to climb over the back of my chair when someone tries to mother me.

[Rusal]

There is this assistant where I work. Younger. Longish black hair which she wears straight. She prefers darker shades for makeup. Very hard for me to approach her, I never know what to say save for something related to work. She seems to work at her own pace, not the most reactive of people. Always with an impassive face on. I can swing from tree to tree moneky-style in front of her with my Fe and she will barely react. I’d had come to believe she didn’t like me hadn’t she directed the brightest and most honest of smiles at me couple of times, totally out of the blue as if really happy to see me. But to this day I'm still not sure. She has 3 main function modes: 1) impassive 2) dry commentator on other’s faulty behaviors or when forced into Fe situations 3) less than usual, sincere smiler. An ILI female I guess.

[Ibreen]

I typed someone as SEI until I saw her reading a book about Theta healing and other topics that suggest Ni. The difference between her and the IEI I talked about is very big, the IEI has more in common with an ILI than her. Maybe it’s because they both are Ni subtypes. Hm.

While communication is really smooth (as with all Fe types) the conversation doesn’t lead anywhere, similar to the conversations I have with ESEs. She has a ghost-like presence, and she only interrupts me when I’m focusing, and never when I’m talking to people. I really don’t have enough Fe or Ni to understand why she still talks to me.

Last year, while I was frustrated with an ESE for disappearing on me, my tongue slipped and I absent-mindedly asked her what did she want when she greeted me that morning. Gah. It was 9am, too early for anything, but not doing that again, didn’t turn out well. I dislike it when people are inconsistent in my life unless they have a real reason.

[Ibreen]

Writing this post unlocked more than 10 years worth of frustration towards indirect people

[Rusal]

I typed someone as SEI until I saw her reading a book about Theta healing and other topics that suggest Ni. The difference between her and the IEI I talked about is very big, the IEI has more in common with an ILI than her. Maybe it’s because they both are Ni subtypes. Hm.

Please, don't let that deter you. SEIs can be big on meditation, relaxation, self-hypnosis, etc. We can an interest in rewiring ourselves, to play and experiment.

[Dr PissBender]

Can you please keep this type of shit in the regular "Random Thoughts" thread? It's just that this has nothing to do with typology and I don't think the thread should be sullied and polluted so early on. Thanks

LIE daddy move owo

[koffee]

alright so why are EII descriptions so angelic? makes me feel kinda bad because im not that empathic and stuff oops. But when i search about model A and type myself based on my understanding of it, EII fits the best.

Also im still wondering sometimes, what if i value Se (and also Ni ) ? I mean it should be obvious compared to Si and also EII being PoLR Se but idk, i just wanna be more more Se like (in a way that I'm really confident and succesful idk)

Why don't these things describe me PERFECTLY

[Tallmo]

Why don't these things describe me PERFECTLY

Socionics doesn't describe individuals. It describes types. Or let's say that it only describes individuals as far as the type goes. That is, things that are in a certain way typical, in this case, the IM structure. Everything else is left out. That's the whole point of a typology.

[Ibreen]

Please, don't let that deter you. SEIs can be big on meditation, relaxation, self-hypnosis, etc. We can an interest in rewiring ourselves, to play and experiment.

in addition to that she doesn’t fit in with the Big Alpha Friend Group, similar to how the EIE is. They both talk to them a lot but they are always on the periphery, last to be chosen for group work. Even more socially inept alphas have more -space- in that group. Maybe she’s an sx/sp SEI.

[Ibreen]

I just finished talking on the group chat with a bunch of SFs and it seems like everyone is on the verge of a breakdown because of the lockdown. The EIE wants us all to postpone the semester because working online isn’t working for us. The ESEs and SEEs are losing their shit. No one read the task and yet everybody is complaining about how the task is too big to handle. We are to choose a case study in a foreign country, but somehow everybody thinks we have to start an new analysis ground up.

Then it became about not graduating on time, then about how we can’t split the work into two because some groups have an odd number of people, and we should send an email to the professor.

Some problems really really appear out of the blue when they’re feelers in big numbers. It’s like they purposely misunderstand things just to have a group meltdown.

[Adam Strange]

I just finished talking on the group chat with a bunch of SFs and it seems like everyone is on the verge of a breakdown because of the lockdown. The EIE wants us all to postpone the semester because working online isn’t working for us. The ESEs and SEEs are losing their shit. No one read the task and yet everybody is complaining about how the task is too big to handle. We are to choose a case study in a foreign country, but somehow everybody thinks we have to start an new analysis ground up.

Then it became about not graduating on time, then about how we can’t split the work into two because some groups have an odd number of people, and we should send an email to the professor.

Some problems really really appear out of the blue when they’re feelers in big numbers. It’s like they purposely misunderstand things just to have a group meltdown.

@faith, as an Extrovert, I can say that I don't do well in isolation.

It isn't even that I have to constantly be talking to someone. Once, after my ex moved out with our son and before we were divorced, I had to do my taxes, which I find to be very stressful. I asked her to come over with a book and just sit in the next room. She did, and that was enough "contact" to get me settled down to the point where I could focus on the task of taxes.

I said this was due to Extroversion, but it might be tied up with Fear of Abandonment, which might also be tied up with Extroversion. Alternately, this could just be an LIE thing, IDK.

[Adam Strange]

We’re Arabs and most of us live in our family homes, regardless of the size of the income. It’s only after we are married that we move out. Even then there’s a saying “you’re not marrying the man you’re marrying the family” meaning the dude literally comes with a pack.

Makes you think twice about whether or not you should go for a dual, there’s always a chance that you might end up with a controlling family of an opposing Quadra.

I could see that, @faith. The idea of being controlled by anyone, much less a family group, makes me want to run for the hills.

I know some people who are in arranged marriages, and they seem about as happy as people who chose their mates without too much family influence. Maybe arranged marriages have a slightly better success rate than Western marriages because the matches are group-sourced, which is the basic reason that Democracy is more successful than dictatorships. Even though it is easier to get things done in a Dictatorship, when things go wrong, they really go wrong. In arranged marriages, when things go wrong, there is an entire family standing by to encourage the partners to work things out.

Additionally, Duality by itself doesn't guarantee a happy union. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that can be much more important than Duality alone.

For me, Duality is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for marriage.

[Ryan]

We’re Arabs and most of us live in our family homes, regardless of the size of the income. It’s only after we are married that we move out. Even then there’s a saying “you’re not marrying the man you’re marrying the family” meaning the dude literally comes with a pack.

Makes you think twice about whether or not you should go for a dual, there’s always a chance that you might end up with a controlling family of an opposing Quadra.

True.

I'm not married yet, but I've already bought an apartment for that reason. I usually split my time between the two, just to get my weekly dosage of human interactions, currently staying with family due to the circumstances.

But I definitely won't be staying there when I'm married. I like my privacy and autonomy.

[Ryan]

I could see that, @faith. The idea of being controlled by anyone, much less a family group, makes me want to run for the hills.

I know some people who are in arranged marriages, and they seem about as happy as people who chose their mates without too much family influence. Maybe arranged marriages have a slightly better success rate than Western marriages because the matches are group-sourced, which is the basic reason that Democracy is more successful than dictatorships. Even though it is easier to get things done in a Dictatorship, when things go wrong, they really go wrong. In arranged marriages, when things go wrong, there is an entire family standing by to encourage the partners to work things out.

Additionally, Duality by itself doesn't guarantee a happy union. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that can be much more important than Duality alone.

For me, Duality is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for marriage.

No, there is just as much divorce and family issues as it's anywhere else.

Long distance relationships are actually prevalent.

A lot of people actually think that I'm very traditional and observant of religion because I'm not interested in most relationships outside of marriage. Obviously not true since I'm an atheist. I'm guessing this is why traditional religious girls appeal to some western men who never lived in a religious society, since their passive nature in courting appears to be celebrated. The truth is, it isn't. There is a lot of contradicting behaviour that is celebrated. It's hard to explain without writing in length.

[Adam Strange]

No, there is just as much divorce and family issues as it's anywhere else.

Long distance relationships are actually prevalent.

A lot of people actually think that I'm very traditional and observant of religion because I'm not interested in most relationships outside of marriage. Obviously not true since I'm an atheist. I'm guessing this is why traditional religious girls appeal to some western men who never lived in a religious society, since their passive nature in courting appears to be celebrated. The truth is, it isn't.

Traditionally religious women don't appeal to me. I want a woman who is moral, but not moral with me. Lol.

There is a lot of contradicting behaviour that is celebrated. It's hard to explain without writing in length.

You should write about it at length. Curious minds want to know.

[Ryan]

You should write about it at length. Curious minds want to know.

It's pretty complex. I'm not really in the mood.

It's all about gender roles. The expectation of traditional women is to be submissive to men or at least the appearance of being submissive. And the opposite for men.

Yet being an introvert and logical is considered feminine in some societies.

The woman chooses someone who fits the society's idea of being masculine, who is supposed to be able to provide for her, and she gives up her financial potential, just to end up with a deadbeat father.

That is a simple example of course. But you get the idea: Traditional families sell you the idea of being perfect, they don't guarantee it.

[Rusal]

I know this LSI (or ESI) man who’s always been in charge of the repairs in my family house. I’ve noticed his movements are very dignified and naturally elegant (in a stiff way) even though he’s done heavy work most of his life. When he’s not working he’s baking and doing work for his large family; he’s very resourceful and dedicated. He also appears to have a clear mind, so he would’ve done well in an academic environment. But he was born dirt poor (and he and his familiy still are, to some extent) and he didn’t have the opportunity. I’ve wondered what will be of these people when his age catches up with him. They mostly survive on his daily wage.

Enter COVID19. All the small repair projects he was counting on, to the trash. Every cent painfully saved, every hope the family might’ve had for 2020, evaporated.
If you’ve read about the effects of the virus on robust economies like the USA, imagine what it’ll be like in other countries. It can take families like this up to 10 years to recover from what they are about to go through.

*this depressing moment was brought to you by the quarantine. Quarantine, the perfect place to lose all sight of a bright future*

[Adam Strange]

I went out for a walk last night and the only person who was in sight was this one guy who was striding along the street. He and I crossed paths and I said Hello and he said Hello and I asked him what news he'd heard of the lockdown and he said Wait a minute, Let me check my app for Fox News, and I thought, A Fox News viewer in Ann Arbor? Is this guy lost? I want to know more.

He found his app, the name of which I instantly forgot, and he said a few disparaging things about Michigan's Democratic governor and I asked him if he lived in town?

He said he just moved here to be close to his family, since he was sixty-two. The guy didn't look that old, but his head was shaved and he gave off an Exxj air. Kind of like a guy who had once been in fair shape, but had since gone to fat.

I asked him where he had been living and what he'd been doing there?

He said he lived all his life south of Chicago, in Indiana. He managed dozens of bowling alleys there, made tons of money, and after eighteen years he just quit. Got tired of working at that job.

"Really?"

"Yeah. Have you ever heard of projected marketing?" (I might have this term wrong.)

"No, why?"

"Because I did that for many years. We had a building, owned everything but the shell. That, we rented for $28,000 a month. We had printing presses and we'd print tons of paper every day. We were very successful. When the economy tanked in '09, I decided that I'd had enough of that, too. I was making over a million dollars a day (I think he said a million) but you know, when things turned down, that $28k rent check every month hurt."

"I could see that."

"My next venture was to buy houses. Had hundreds of them. I was lucky enough to sell most of them before this corona virus thing hit. Now I just have seven left. The government should be sending me money, not those renters. They think they don't have to pay rent now." (The next part got a bit incoherent, but it involved the liberal governors preventing him from buying paint or grass seed in big box stores.) "I'm glad I'm out of that business. Or almost out."

Two other walkers approached us from the way that he had come. He looked at them, then at me. "Now I'm here. To be near my daughter. Maybe I'll retire. You know, some people just aren't cut out for work." He laughed, and then he turned and hurried to catch up with the two strangers walking quickly down the sidewalk, away into the darkening night.

I think he was ESE.

[Ibreen]

Fi users: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kbZPe9lawCs

+ enneagram 4: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk_OHaA_bs4

[Dauphin]

IEIs usually just look dreamy, awkward, or brooding. EIEs usually look like they're posing or playing the lead role in a play.