Donald Trump

[Beautiful sky]

Here's a description from Filatova from same quadra (whom I think self-types ILI?) -

filatova was eii. she self typed as dii

this is her on the far right top

Socionics INFj EII Dostoyevsky Filatova portraits photos photographs visual identification type .png

[Dalek Caan]

Here's Filatova's Ti description for SLE (http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...E_.28Zhukov.29)

Ti – Creative function. In order for them to emerge victorious in their struggles it is necessary for them to be able to select a principal direction, in which to orient themselves, to, in time, recognize the key links that connect different situations. The SLE is the most sober realist of all the psycho-types: their sensory recognition, combined with logical analysis reliant on a complete set of information, allows them to precisely reproduce a realistic picture of the world in their minds.
SLE logically, and sensibly, interprets the situation, checking for far reaching aftereffects of various events. Nothing is assumed upon blind faith. Beginning work, they fixedly consider all possibilities, collect all the necessary information about all aspects of the task at hand, and examine the opinions of all those surrounding, but always make the final decision themselves.
Wonderfully understand how best to organize work and the inability of others to act on such an optimal level. Thus the SLE will take upon themselves, not only their own responsibilities, but also the affairs of the surrounding people, to which SLE relates with sympathy and respect. Even if their (sometimes nitpicking) supervision begins to irritate another, that person will nevertheless take comfort in the possibility of feeling protected next to SLE, “the immovable wall.”
In every area of activity a rapid and perceptible return is paramount. They wish to see the result of their work, as far as possible, in a concrete-material sense: the constructed building, the launched rocket, the earned strategic success, the appreciation of a gift, the acquisition of an apartment, the completion of a machine…

But that isn't so much Trump either.

So...

Here's Filatova's SLE Se description

Se – Program function. Basic qualities exemplified by SLE: volitional pressure, the uncontrollable desire for activity, sporting tone and resoluteness. They are people of activity; contemplation, as a way of life, is absolutely alien to them. They will attempt, by any means, to achieve their goals, their means of achievement are not hampered by ceremonial(i.e. bureaucratic) regulations.
In their struggles SLE will never yield initiative. If necessary they will wait for the proper moment to act and will never forsake the opportunity at hand. Their influence is governed by their power, often they don’t think, to themselves of other [strange] ways to solve problems. Acting with pressure they do not submit themselves to the success of a common cause but rather are capable of entirely taking the responsibility of leadership amongst themselves. They are inflexible and rigid in conducting other people towards the execution of activities/problems. Decisively they manifest their interest in work and are not tormented or distracted by pangs in their consciousness, even if, for the achievement of their goals, they must pinch, punish or offend someone. When that, which they desire, is impossible to reach quickly and directly, they seek alternate routes and without fail tend to attain one.
As a rule they are the innate leaders, organizers of work on any scale. Even in a new environment, or new spectrum of activity, previously alien to them, it remains possible to be confident that, sooner or later, they will prove capable of taking control. True, sometimes they emanate excessive pressure, in a volitional sense: everywhere where, in SLE’s opinion, something is under-fulfilled, or lacks completion, further work will be managed with their personal interference. Being energetic and ambitious, SLE assumes that the significance of an individual is determined by their situation in society, by the ability of the individual to attain their place in life; therefore they can prove to be, at times, intolerant, even rough, in terms of respect, with those with of lower status. They may consider another to be measly if that individual failed to reach a fitting place in the social hierarchy. On the other hand, those, whom possess authority in society, are worthy of respect.
SLE will never resign, never allow themselves to be conquered. If forced to suffer humiliation they will gather the necessary force needed to take vengeance; they do not pardon offenses directed against them.

And Filatova's SEE Se description

Se – Program function. A strong individual. Irrepressibly he approaches his goals and, at any costs, tries to reach them. “Only success, only victory!”
SEE – always the leader, ambitious and confident. Naturally proves to be the center of attention in any group. The desire, without fail, to lead, to control; leads to rivalries, competition with other aspirants. However, SEE deftly senses the nuances in his relations, wonderfully senses the moods of others towards him. If someone, whom he must deal with, is capable of holding him at a distance, of resisting him, SEE will not bother with him, but if, and when, he feels slack he can press and become unceremonious. Will not seek conflict without reason. Can act diplomatic and insinuating in order to achieve objectives. But if conflict arises he can express himself directly, unambiguously.
Always, and in everything, SEE tries to display his advantages to others. Should he suffer injustice he will find a way to turn it around, presenting himself to others so as not to lose face, even conversely to appear the victor. He never acknowledges his injuries.
SEE tends not to get lost in the difficult situation; in such cases he rather reacts with more strength, mobilizing to surmount the difficulty.
Energetic and noisy, he creates the impression that he is occupying as much space as possible.
SEE noticeably develops the shadow function of the extroverted sense of sensations (Se), especially when viewed from the exterior. SEE loves bright, garish clothing; he prefers to appear from “better to extravagant” rather than “everyday and gray”. It pleases him to be noticed, to garner the attention of others.

Honestly, I can see him in both the Se descriptions, except for the bolded in SEE. I'm getting the feeling Trump tries to use both Fi and Ti or something and ends up failing pretty bad at both...

Anyway, I want to apologize for being kind of irritable about this. I think it just bugged me how so many negative things were being associated with SEEs, but I'm realizing it's not fair for SLEs either. So I'm sorry, I personally think he's just a shitty Se leading with no creative function or something.

[Dalek Caan]

filatova was eii. she self typed as dii

this is her on the far right top

Socionics INFj EII Dostoyevsky Filatova portraits photos photographs visual identification type .png

Oh, do you have a source? I think she has pretty good descriptions about Fi anyway. At least they match up pretty well with the people I know. Gulenko seems way too biased for me in that regard.

edit: nevermind, I found it. http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...erina_Filatova heh, so that's why I like her Fi descriptions.

[Raver]

Actually, I'm out. I read up to page 8 and saw what these arguments for SEE were.

And no, for the SEE backers, posting gulenko's shit and biased and un-nuanced descriptions aren't good arguments. He clearly has a very negative view of Fi. And it shows...now I get where all this is coming from. Fucking Gulenko does it again.

This debate is nothing new, it's basically deja vu. A lot of us got tired of debating about Trump's type and moved on. I was one of those in the SLE side and there was about an equal amount on the SEE side and we've all made up our mind and that is that, there no point in expecting people to change their mind on this because it's not going to happen. Trump is a strong subtype so naturally you can make a convincing argument for him being SLE or SEE and it will appear believable and credible for this reason. Anyways, I think a lot of the SEE typings for him are that people think Trump is a narcissistic or sociopathic SEE and that is why it looks like he has weak when it's actually strong.

Which isn't a good argument because I've met several SEEs that are narcissistic or sociopathic and they don't act anything like Trump as they can be ruthless like him, but they have this charisma, likability and closeness that Trump lacks and Trump tries to compensate this with his HA, but it only really works on like minded individuals who share his beliefs and the rest find him insufferable. On the other hand, Trump does act quite a lot similarly to narcissistic and sociopathic SLEs I have known generally speaking. Trump gets by on his strong mostly and haphazardly uses his HA to navigate ethical and social issues and blunders frequently in a way only an PoLR can IMO.

[The Reality Denialist]

However, SEE deftly senses the nuances in his relations, wonderfully senses the moods of others towards him

Yeah. He gained lots of votes which was what he needed. Of course you only have to win over majority. I think Clinton was far worse at this. It was like creative vs PoLR.

So SEE can be diplomatic to his/her own ends.
Does he fail at it? Would he have presidency by being diplomatic as his main program? It is situational/creative and therefore more opportunist than just pure thing. However one could even think it as Fe used in it's own See ends.

[karas]

Sle-Ha Fe (i just want to help people i dont ask anything in return. but sing heroic song for me would be nice. ...., but they still call me ,monster, murder.etc , why..


EII hate Sle just because they aggressive, look scary and bringing weapon. well of course they are warrior..

[karas]

They socionics activator ENFj

[Aylen]

I mean I agree with you. But having weak logic doesn't mean he doesn't value it over Fi, which I don't see him even using...



I did consider him as either SLE or SEE or a fucked up Se type. My conclusion, since you missed it is that he fits the SLE-Se profile much better, but that he's a fucked up person with STRONG Se, so his rational side will be weak, whether Fi or Ti, and that's he not a good representative of whatever type he is.

And then I noticed he has nothing that I can see resembling an ability to utilize subjective feeling to understand, empathize, sympathize, or do anything remotely related to not being a piece of shit that uses and abuses people. And his xenophobia is a form of generalized thinking he uses to get people riled up with Fe, despite that most of what he says isn't even all that remotely true statistically or even contextually. There is no internalizing feeling whatsoever, unless it's in service of his ego. In which case, his feeling is incredibly shit for an SEE that is supposed to have some kind of charisma, even if they aren't always "good" with people and whatnot. And I'd be surprised if an SEE would consistently marginalize and label large groups of people as bad when the facts show them that is false. An SEE wouldn't get into politics on a message like that.

It's like emotional intelligence; he doesn't have it; he's hugely disagreeable; the only feeling he has is when his ego is attacked and then it's still just about him. And we're typing him Fi? Like holy shit, really?

You're misrepresenting what I said. Fi is subjective, so of course I don't know her feelings. But the point I was making is that I internalized it, whereas the SLE internalized it with logic. And people who are good at internalizing with feeling become good at understanding what people really are feeling. It's the same with Ti; a good Ti user becomes good at understanding the subjective logic of other people. It doesn't mean they can mind-read.

Then summarize please. At least make an argument. Your issue with mine have mostly been misinterpretation...

According to Model A SEE have 3D Fi too...do you really believe Trump has that?

Sorry but I am not going to summarize since I said it is all available in this thread. I am not in the habit of making more work for myself than neccessary when it comes to this stuff so if you are really interested in my perspective you will look it up. If you are not interested then I am not sure why you would even ask me to summarize or for my opinion. I also said I have put enough time into Trump and I do not wish to convince you to change your mind. My biggest issue was you claiming that Fi egos would not be xenophobic. I don't believe I misrepresented anything you said considering your belief that Fi is some kind of special, kind, caring, function incapable of treachery. You might not have used those terms but you have made your beliefs of what Fi is, and isn't, is very clear.

Yes I believe he has creative Fi and if you read enough about creative Fi or Fi in general, from Jung, you would know it is not a stretch. FTR, Gulenko had no influence on my typing since I posted what I thought about him before I knew Gulenko typed him the same. I don't even know when Gulenko first typed him.

I do not care how you type him so you do not need to convince me. Nothing you have said so far is convincing for me but maybe it will work on others. You have enough people who agree with you as it is. You can take comfort in that. No need to feel like kys because some type him other... That's so dramatic.

[Beautiful sky]

I have all her books

Oh, do you have a source? I think she has pretty good descriptions about Fi anyway. At least they match up pretty well with the people I know. Gulenko seems way too biased for me in that regard.

edit: nevermind, I found it. http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...erina_Filatova heh, so that's why I like her Fi descriptions.

[Beautiful sky]

Yeah. He gained lots of votes which was what he needed. Of course you only have to win over majority. I think Clinton was far worse at this. It was like creative vs PoLR.

So SEE can be diplomatic to his/her own ends.
Does he fail at it? Would he have presidency by being diplomatic as his main program? It is situational/creative and therefore more opportunist than just pure thing. However one could even think it as Fe used in it's own See ends.

..why wouldn’t they be as the archetypical Politician?

[Aylen]

Lol sure I mentioned how long I've been looking into it, but if I were to argue "I've been studying X years, ergo my argument is valid", that would be fallacious. I didn't do that.

Anyway, here's a meme. Cheers.

[Aylen]

filatova was eii. she self typed as dii

this is her on the far right top

Socionics INFj EII Dostoyevsky Filatova portraits photos photographs visual identification type .png

Her profiles are much kinder than Vera's. Vera is ESI so her take on Gamma is probably more favorable than her take on some of the other quadras but she doesn't seem to hold back much, even on those in her own quadra.

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...ievskaya,_Vera

Vera Izraylevna Stratiyevskaya - author of one the most popular sets of socionic type and intertype relationship descriptions in the Russian socionics community. She is known for producing some of the most detailed, lifelike descriptions of socionic types available at her blog socionika-forever. These thorough descriptions full of detailed behavior and more than a bit of irony have been machine translated and made available in English, but they are difficult to understand at times. However, quite a few socionists and socionics hobbyists have criticized Stratiyevskaya for portraying types of Gamma quadra in more positive light while exaggerating the weaknesses or peculiarities of types from other quadra. This is most likely explainable by her own type being ESI; thus, her depictions of types and intertype relations are said to be most accurate for Gamma types. Reading her profiles and intertype relationship descriptions pertaining to types from other quadra, especially Alpha, it should be kept in mind that she has written these from the point of view of an outside observer that does not provide a completely objective view. Stratiyevskaya self-types as ESI (suggested extended typing: ESI-Se so/sx 6w7).

[Desert Financial]

Te as Demonstrative Function

The individual is adept at recognizing which aspects of an information, statement, or action are factually accurate in the sense of checking them against available external sources of information, but he tends to see this as lesser importance in comparison to their internal logical consistency when pursuing a concept fed by Ne or Se. To focus on the facts, also when giving out information, is seen as rather pointless when there is an Ne idea to be explored or a Se power to be gained.

Explains a lot.

If he was SEE, he would be mobilized by factual information produced by those in his administration and those in other stations - data would give him leverage to act with greater efficiency in pursuit of his cause. We wouldn't be having this perennial focus on "fact checking" because he would eventually give more credence to external sources.

A person who values facts, who's hidden agenda is "to know", does not paint intelligence agencies as villains or ignore their input. They seek out intelligence from others in order to work at full capacity. I can only picture Trump, when working with an ILI, disregarding a substantial portion of the ILI's input because ILI's data is tethered to external factors. In contrast, I can picture Trump working with an IEI to greater effect because Trump feeds off of positive support at his rallies etc.

Extroverted Ethics (Fe, )

SLEs tend to highly value vibrant emotional environments in which they can freely interact and be themselves, without incurring moral judgment or inflaming their natural emotional guard. They, however, are usually minimally proficient at providing an emotional impetus to relieve atmospheres which they perceive as overly dull. SLEs who try to exert their influence on the emotional atmosphere may not get the desired emotional response and may feel offended or as though they have little control over the situation. In unfamiliar situations, they may feel the need to maintain their emotional guard and can appear unfriendly, brusque, unwelcoming, or insensitive. This can detrimentally lead to further group antagonism and estrange the SLE from others.

SLEs are most comfortable in dynamic environments in which they are able to let loose and not worry about guarding themselves emotionally. They interact most freely with people skilled at creating these open-ended types of emotional environments, who have little interest in moral judgments external to the general mood or expression, and who react tactfully and non-critically. They also especially are inclined towards large group environments with a common shared goal, which they can use as a basis for amicable interaction. Environments of this sort can bring out the inner expression and purpose of SLEs, and can serve as an emotional release.

Rally after rally.

[Adam Strange]

Explains a lot.

If he was SEE, he would be mobilized by factual information produced by those in his administration and those in other stations - data would give him leverage to act with greater efficiency in pursuit of his cause. We wouldn't be having this perennial focus on "fact checking" because he would eventually give more credence to external sources.

A person who values facts, who's hidden agenda is "to know", does not paint intelligence agencies as villains or ignore their input. They seek out intelligence from others in order to work at full capacity. I can only picture Trump, when working with an ILI, disregarding a substantial portion of the ILI's input because ILI's data is tethered to external factors. In contrast, I can picture Trump working with an IEI to greater effect because Trump feeds off of positive support at his rallies etc.

Rally after rally.

These are pretty good arguments for him being SLE. IDK, I go back and forth.

Personally, I think Trump's latest wife Melania is IEI.

I get the impression that she hates him, which indicates to me that he is severely disturbed. Of course, the fact that she signed a prenup saying she will get $1M if she sticks around for ten years can't help that love fest.

[Aster]

73 votes for SLE

I think that’s the most votes I’ve seen so far for a famous person on here.

[Sisyphean]

His habit of going to bat for his people in the face of controversy and bad press as a default and as long as they are loyal to him, and then immediately being done with them as soon as they show hints of disloyalty screams vulnerable Fi and matches up with SLE first-hand descriptions of how Fi PoLR is experienced. Also all his twitter shenanigans and how often he has been duped into letting people against him into his administration.

The SLE carefully "picks out" his/her own people from the "others". For someone to become his or her "own" it takes some time. A single mistake can throw you back to the starting point.

Doesn't always realize that a smile on someone's face and good manners are not necessarily a measure of this person's good disposition and sincerity. Some people smile just "because". SLE hates this type of ambiguity. He doesn't have the resources to track all of the signals of this type. Thus he/she is easily led on by ethical games – SLE's consideration can be won simply by good treatment; he won't immediately recognize a trap. But once he sees it, he won't give the person a second chance. The SLE can be led on and manipulated by good attitude for a long time, but not forever. If he catches you on a lie, sees that behind your smile hides something else besides kindness, then he/she will stop trusting you out of principle, and then smile however much you wish. But to demonstrations of good attitude he will usually react positively, even if it's coming from a person whom he/she doesn't like and doesn't trust.

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...E_observations

[Not A Communist Shill]

Arguably, the type with the second highest number of votes should win in a Trump thread.



(That was a joke: I still think he is SLE, while agreeing with those who say it may not be desirable to spend much time trying to type such an unhealthy and controversial individual)

[Aylen]

Arguably, the type with the second highest number of votes should win in a Trump thread.


(That was a joke: I still think he is SLE, while agreeing with those who say it may not be desirable to spend much time trying to type such an unhealthy and controversial individual)

Quality > Quantity

*retypes self ILI*

[Sol]

4.85%
the percent of people on the forum who understand something in the types and may differ a surface clowning from a real type

[Desert Financial]

"...may differ a surface clowning from a real type."

[Beautiful sky]

"...may differ a surface clowning from a real type."

LET them go

[Beautiful sky]

LSE will always say harsh things that aggravate their relationships

[Beautiful sky]

4.85%
the percent of people on the forum who understand something in the types and may differ a surface clowning from a real type

PLease be nice sol. Choose words that consider the emotions of others.

[Sol]

@Beautiful sky
to play EII does not need to be boring. be creative

[Beautiful sky]

@Beautiful sky
to play EII does not need to be boring. be creative

I like to think that I have many interests. I’m not sure where you get boring from(?)

[WVBRY]

Arguably, the type with the second highest number of votes should win in a Trump thread.

By that logic the type with the most votes in a Hillary thread should lose, lol.

[Raver]

73 votes for SLE

I think that’s the most votes I’ve seen so far for a famous person on here.

Wow, I didn't realize he had so many votes for SLE and so much less votes for SEE based on how divided this thread appeared on these two types. To be fair, some of those SLE votes have moved to SEE though.

[Blue]

He has a Gamma-like business image (pre-presidency) but his tactics are Beta. SLE.

[WinnieW]

My intution says Donald is beta, but he learned the gamma business style from his father, Fred C. Trump. My impression is that Fred is the LIE type.

[Desert Financial]

LET them go

wut.

[Aylen]

4.85%
the percent of people on the forum who understand something in the types and may differ a surface clowning from a real type

[Beautiful sky]

wut.

His insult

[Desert Financial]

His insult

I couldn't uncover any insults from his butchered English.

[Sol]

@Aylen

you don't choose your music taste and typing skills. it's ok

[Not A Communist Shill]

prepare to suffer a surface clowning from a real type.

[Sol]

I couldn't uncover any insults from his butchered English.

She's right. I has insulted the typing skills of the majority on the forum as their owners insulted the rather evident Truth and the Socionics theory. The last ones needed some protection. I did my best in this hopeless try. The very majority that for so long mistypies such evident case as the topic's clown is definetely stronger with their ingnorance. Though some of them may accept the Light of the Truth easier after adequate criticism. This is more doubtful for the ones alike Maritsa which do not see correctly even own type as prefer to choose the types by emotions, instead of appropriate thinking. The similar phenomen leaded the others to see SLE in evident EIE, - they are under the emotions from Trumps clowning. Emotions and the Truth do not match good.
As the masterpiece this case makes the degree of mass mistake - they mess the clubs, the kinds of ego functions - ones of the most different types!

Sorry, the Truth. They did not wanted to hurt you. They just have no idea what the real types are and what political clowning is.

[Beautiful sky]

She's right. I has insulted the typing skills of the majority on the forum as their owners insulted the rather evident Truth and the Socionics theory. The last ones needed some protection. I did my best in this hopeless try. The very majority that for so long mistypies such evident case as the topic's clown is definetely stronger with their ingnorance. Though some of them may accept the Light of the Truth easier after adequate criticism. This is more doubtful for the ones alike Maritsa which do not see correctly even own type as prefer to choose the types by emotions, instead of appropriate thinking. The similar phenomen leaded the others to see SLE in evident EIE, - they are under the emotions from Trumps clowning. Emotions and the Truth do not match good.
As the masterpiece this case makes the degree of mass mistake - they mess the clubs, the kinds of ego functions - ones of the most different types!

Sorry, the Truth. They did not wanted to hurt you. They just have no idea what the real types are and what political clowning is.

Do you think it matters how you type me or how others see me? It doesn’t sol! What matters is my Intertype relationships. I think that’s been pretty solid testament of my type. And, the fact that I’m married now should pretty much make any argument for my type null and void. It comes down to how my marriage works and it’s works really well. Do I use Fi on my husband? Am I Fi? I don’t know. I know what I tell him and what he tells me and we smooth out conflicts really well. Same goes for the other “LSE” cousins and aunt. It’s supposed to be natural. Keep rejecting me as whatever you think I’m not. It doesn’t bother me. Our interactions may or may not change. I still have infinite patience

[Beautiful sky]

I couldn't uncover any insults from his butchered English.

I’m glad you were not offended

[khcs]

[sbbds]

Idk if this has been posted before:

An old video of Donald Trump has been unearthed in which he says 'If there is a concrete wall in front of you, go through it'.