Tragic vs Comic Victims

[Weenusflytrap]

I can’t find any descriptions of this. What is the difference between a tragic and a comic victim?

[Great]

Where did you find such a distinction? Anyways, I typed this into ChatGPT and this is what it came up with:

"In Socionics, a tragic victim and a comic victim refer to different ways people can relate to others based on their socionic type. These terms are used to describe how individuals may perceive themselves or be perceived by others in social interactions. Here's an overview of the differences:

Tragic Victim
A tragic victim, in the context of Socionics, is someone who tends to see themselves as a victim of circumstances or external factors.
They often emphasize the hardships and challenges they face and may feel overwhelmed by them.
Tragic victims may seek empathy, support, or validation from others, highlighting their difficulties.
This attitude can be associated with certain socionic types, such as the Victim, which is one of the Information Elements in Socionics.

Comic Victim:
A comic victim, on the other hand, is someone who uses humor or self-deprecating behavior as a way to connect with others.
They may downplay their own struggles and use humor to make light of difficult situations.
Comic victims often seek to amuse or entertain others through their self-deprecating humor.
This attitude can be associated with other socionic types and Information Elements in Socionics.

These terms are used within Socionics to describe how individuals with different socionic types may engage in social interactions and perceive themselves. Keep in mind that Socionics is a theory of personality and interpersonal relationships that differs from the more widely known Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) and other personality systems. It focuses on how people interact with others based on their cognitive functions and socionic type."

So,

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

I've never come across this dichotomy before but it reminded me of someone I got to know when I was a frightened little immigrant student. She also also an immigrant student (a non-EU one, unlike me) who found herself in a freaky situation, yet appeared to be going through the motions cheerfully. When I looked her up not long ago, I saw she was an ivy league researcher/academic in the UK.

[Kurt Gabin]

I can’t find any descriptions of this. What is the difference between a tragic and a comic victim?

It's an ancient joke, 100 years ago somebody called IEI / EIE tragic victims and ILI / LIE comic victims in his blog post. That's it.

[Sol]

It's an ancient joke

There is a lot of "jokes" of heresies, what mainly are doubtful or evident nonsense.
It was started since Jung with his strange Ni fantasies and muddy talking, allowing multiple interpretations. This approach have affected his typology texts too. What should be the reason that MBTI manual claims rational behavior for irrational types, when those are introverted, while many people trust that idiocy.

"victim" was the term of other "joker" - Gulenko, who used it for sexual behavior. Even got some experimental proof by Talanov that Ni/Se value predisposes to s&m attractions.

Tragic and comic is about emotions. If Ni are victims (in some application) - EIE and IEI would be tragi-comical. Some more comical in agressor roles.

[Kurt Gabin]

@Sol I won't talk to you until you stop posting random videos in Russian on a forum where everyone speaks English.

[Sol]

stop posting random videos in Russian on a forum where everyone speaks English

Your reply is out of the discussed theme.

But I'll comment it.
Types of those examples can be understood by impressions from nonverbal behavior. This is best method for famouses.

Discussions with incompetent noobs about types have no big interest for me or significant use for me (and others). My task is to say own opinion.
More so the situation is with extremely heretical and unresonable ones, who reject usefulness of nonverbal behavior for typing, doing so against general psychology, common typology practice, Augustinavichiute's texts and even objective experiment.

Your talking style out of the theme and unresonable approach to typology is closer to P types, not EII.
I recommend you to check own type by IR with good known people and only then to be assured in it. When you'll be doing this checking, it's useful to evaluate impressions from nonverbal of those people too, a side effect of what will make your thoughts about nonverbal VI more adequate.
Your nick reminds Kurt Cobain, what could be the inspiration. In case of such self-identify with IEI, this supports the idea of your not EII type. A wish to keep the mistake in own type may explain your strange heretical views on typology and why you tend to ignore one of important data about your and other people types. Mistakes in own types are often situation, where more risk is for F types who value emotions higher than reality.

[SacredKnowing]

Sounds like a Woody Allen quote.

"If I got a paper cut, that’s a tragedy. If you fell down an open manhole and died, that's comedy." - Woody Allen

However, in drama, it is known that horror has a tendency over time to be reinterpreted as tragedy. So look into which personality types generate horror.

[The Reality Denialist]

Description from Life Scenarios by V. Gulenko

"Victim" man (ILI, LIE, EIE, IEI). Idealizes a commanding woman. Adapts to her tastes, respects volitional qualities in her. In his behavior at times he emphasizes dependence and obedience, and other times comes out of control. In relationship with a woman he subconsciously awaits orders, catches, reprimands. Not receiving these kinds of reactions, he involuntarily provokes their manifestation.
"Victim" woman (ILI, LIE, EIE, IEI). The ideal of this woman is a physically strong man, reminiscent of lead roles in action movies. She wishes to experience his force on herself, to resist his pressure, to feel herself a victim. In love games, she prefers different forms of opposition and confrontation, that fuel the passions of her partner. Women of this type sometimes have inherent masochistic traits, though not all of them consciously acknowledge it.
"Victim" woman cleverly plays on her weakness, vulnerability, or disorganization, thus provoking "Aggressive" man to undertake prompt decisive actions. In love games, the greatest value for her are strong embraces and feeling the power of the male body, yielding to which she shows her submission to his will. "Caring" men seem comfortable to her, but too dull partners, while "Childlike" men in her heart she views as not sufficiently strong and resolute. With similar to her "Victim" men this woman enters into complex, full of subtext relations, competing with them in sacrificial attitudes and demanding for it special privileges. Frequently such games literally wear out and exhaust both of them.

At this point, I consider it necessary to mention that these psychoanalytic groups are not being considered in all detail, so some more subtle differences within them disappear. In particular, among "Victim" types the fact remains unnoticed that they can further be divided into the "tragic victims" (IEI and EIE) and "comic victims" (ILI and LIE).

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Victim

[FreelancePoliceman]

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Victim

Tragic victims are IEI and comic victims are EIE?

[Metamorph]

A stupid idea Gulenko came up with to try to get women to sleep with him.

[The Reality Denialist]

Tragic victims are IEI and comic victims are EIE?

Dramatically speaking it is rather apparent. Comic victims are dunces of some sort probably in a practical ethical sense and tragic victims are tortured by the life circumstances.

[Metamorph]

Dramatically speaking it is rather apparent. Comic victims are dunces of some sort probably in a practical ethical sense and tragic victims are tortured by the life circumstances.

Yes, but being a victim is stupid and not knowing of the existence of epic theatre is so amateur when Gulenko supposedly studied Germanistik. Gulenko is very silly. Must be a comic victim.

[one]

All victim descriptions portray them as an obedient slave. They seem to love weakness too and probably creates this woe dynamic with everyone while silently getting off on it. There should be no place for slavery in the future, so all victims (and aggressors) should just die. If it's just comic relief infantiles bring the most to the table anyway. Idk about tragic, life should just be live laugh love so maybe that's also not important. There is really just no place for victims in this world. Like can you grow a backbone and stop acting like a masochist rag? Maybe that's why they cry too because they are just too useless.

But maybe there is a place for victims too, if we can just make them WAKE UP and stop being so obedient to their masters. But I bet half of the socion doesn't want to deal with the bs and are actually happy just enjoying their day to day while the other half kill themselves, overdose, steal from others, deal with trauma TM and/or live as a pervert.

[The Reality Denialist]

All victim descriptions portray them as an obedient slave. They seem to love weakness too and probably creates this woe dynamic with everyone while silently getting off on it. There should be no place for slavery in the future, so all victims (and aggressors) should just die. If it's just comic relief infantiles bring the most to the table anyway. Idk about tragic, life should just be live laugh love so maybe that's also not important. There is really just no place for victims in this world. Like can you grow a backbone and stop acting like a masochist rag? Maybe that's why they cry too because they are just too useless.

But maybe there is a place for victims too, if we can just make them WAKE UP and stop being so obedient to their masters. But I bet half of the socion doesn't want to deal with the bs and are actually happy just enjoying their day to day while the other half kill themselves, overdose, steal from others, deal with trauma TM and/or live as a pervert.

Those are called romance styles BTW
Probably reflects on the attitudes of life too as an allegory but ultimately they are too whiny to be actual slaves. According to Jung Si type could end up being a slave.

[one]

Those are called romance styles BTW
Probably reflects on the attitudes of life too as an allegory but ultimately they are too whiny to be actual slaves. According to Jung Si type could end up being a slave.

And what's the problem? I added "getting off"

[The Reality Denialist]

And what's the problem? I added "getting off"

well... I sort of think braking chains is Ne influence on Si. I don't really get slave mentality having a beneficial effect. It is misplaced in a motivational way. The thing is that Ni is a muse to Se. If you listen to Ni motivational speeches it encourages aggressors to enslave people who keep aggression and whining at a bay making those people sound stupid (every single Jordan Peterson speech out there) because they still have the inner strength that can be utilized by enslaving them.

[FreelancePoliceman]

well... I sort of think braking chains is Ne influence on Si. I don't really get slave mentality having a beneficial effect. It is misplaced in a motivational way. The thing is that Ni is a muse to Se. If you listen to Ni motivational speeches it encourages aggressors to enslave people who keep aggression at a bay making those people sound stupid (every single Jordan Peterson speech out there).

I'd hate being a slave so much. I think if anyone's gotta be a slave it's better for the Si people to do it than me. Let's keep them in their chains.

[one]

well... I sort of think braking chains is Ne influence on Si. I don't really get slave mentality having a beneficial effect. It is misplaced in a motivational way. The thing is that Ni is a muse to Se. If you listen to Ni motivational speeches it encourages aggressors to enslave people who keep aggression and whining at a bay making those people sound stupid (every single Jordan Peterson speech out there) because they still have the inner strength that can be utilized by enslaving them.

That is your story because you're a Victim type. You get that "victim-aggressor" dynamic and ok with aggressors to enslave people but even the term sounds weird as hell in this current era. It will never be cute and normal

#noToSlavery outside and inside of romance/romance styles

[The Reality Denialist]

I'd hate being a slave so much. I think if anyone's gotta be a slave it's better for the Si people to do it than me. Let's keep them in their chains.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Esmeralda and Quasimodo. Ne+Si

[The Reality Denialist]

That is your story because you're a Victim type. You get that "victim-aggressor" dynamic and ok with aggressors to enslave people but even the term sounds weird as hell in this current era. It will never be cute and normal

#noToSlavery outside and inside of romance/romance styles

I'm not really going to sign this Indo-European conception of Victim-Aggressor dynamic as a non-Indo-European person. If you ask me it seems like a sign weakness if you need other's energy to complete yourself.

[Mind Goblin]

A stupid idea Gulenko came up with to try to get women to sleep with him.

Best comment I've seen in a while