Differences between SLI-ISTps and SLE-ESTps

[XoX]

AH! My last crush was ISTP! That FACE!!! He always had that face on! ALWAYS! I found it hot.

He was always stoned?

I get that a lot too. People think I looked stoned even though I'm not.

Haha. You are like Obelix. You fell into a pot of pot when kid and now you are stoned 24 hours a day for the rest of your life.

Actually people sometimes comment me that I walk like I was drunk or really tired even when I'm not. But my face rarely looks stoned or anything I think.

[jewels]

Wow, this was an excellent description of the differences!!!

From what you've all said, I think this one is an ESTP, definitely. Darn!! I think I am absolutely destined to never meet ISTps. This guy insisted he was an ISTP, but I really doubt it. He has that extroverted look in his eye.

I think they look almost sleepy in the pictures, but very likeable. Wow, grace kelly is gorgeous and so elegant!

Thanks for posting pics as well, that really helps show the differences.

[Expat]

Both ENTP imo.

No, no. If you get to know some ESTp, you'll see how the movements and all the facial expression match the ones of Brando. I know one from childhood, clear-cut ESTp, which looks exactly like him. I have many facial expressions that are very similar, too. Especially the "hard squinting" before replying a question. The body language is the stereotypical . There is no question about his type, really.

From the physical point of view, I fully agree. That is also the background of the discussion we had with Rick on Brando's type. However, reading his interviews and about his life, including his memoirs, I am more inclined to see him as ENTp.

ESTp logical subtype, closer to ENTp, is perhaps the best solution. He was probably very similar to you, FDG.

[Expat]

Harrison Ford could be ENTj too.

I had never thought of that but I could see it.

In an interview I read ages ago he said something about getting into acting classes to overcome his "shyness". This sounds more like what an ENTj with role function would do than an ISTp with PoLR.

[FDG]

Both ENTP imo.

No, no. If you get to know some ESTp, you'll see how the movements and all the facial expression match the ones of Brando. I know one from childhood, clear-cut ESTp, which looks exactly like him. I have many facial expressions that are very similar, too. Especially the "hard squinting" before replying a question. The body language is the stereotypical . There is no question about his type, really.

From the physical point of view, I fully agree. That is also the background of the discussion we had with Rick on Brando's type. However, reading his interviews and about his life, including his memoirs, I am more inclined to see him as ENTp.

ESTp logical subtype, closer to ENTp, is perhaps the best solution. He was probably very similar to you, FDG.

What about his life makes you think ENTp? He seemed so even in his excesses about eating...

[Expat]

What about his life makes you think ENTp? He seemed so even in his excesses about eating...

Well, perhaps you will find it consistent with being ESTp -- but he was always interested in lots of different, "arcane" stuff like some obscure bits of neuroscience, and involved in stuff like the plight of Native Americans etc. He also took parts for very little money because they corresponded to his ideological agenda. Also, he invented - and insisted on following - new forms of acting techniques such as reading from cue cards placed everywhere.

But mainly, his life as a whole doesn't give the impression that he was ever trying to achieve anything. His huge leap to fame was in the play A Streetcar Named Desire, where he attracted attention not through - or not only - his physical presence but his novel acting techniques. From then on, it was about getting the parts offered him and working for as much money, and little work, as possible except those parts that particularly interested him for personal reasons.

[FDG]

What about his life makes you think ENTp? He seemed so even in his excesses about eating...

Well, perhaps you will find it consistent with being ESTp -- but he was always interested in lots of different, "arcane" stuff like some obscure bits of neuroscience, and involved in stuff like the plight of Native Americans etc. He also took parts for very little money because they corresponded to his ideological agenda. Also, he invented - and insisted on following - new forms of acting techniques such as reading from cue cards placed everywhere.

The arcane and scientific interested are not particularly consistent with ESTp as a type, I have to agree. Taking part in movies that correspond to an idelogical agenda with low funds, though, seems particularly Beta to me.

As for the various acting forms, from reading from some bios it seems to me that he learn many of them from a particular school of acting, which he didn't invent. Though I might be uninformed on this bit.

But mainly, his life as a whole doesn't give the impression that he was ever trying to achieve anything. His huge leap to fame was in the play A Streetcar Named Desire, where he attracted attention not through - or not only - his physical presence but his novel acting techniques. From then on, it was about getting the parts offered him and working for as much money, and little work, as possible except those parts that particularly interested him for personal reasons.

Oh well, ESTp's is said to aim to the first place in the hierachy of the given domain. Since he easily obtained the place of most important actor, from there on he lost his motivation. I find this consistent.

Actually, probably his aiming at partecipating at movies that particularly interested him was his main aim.

[Expat]

Taking part in movies that correspond to an idelogical agenda with low funds, though, seems particularly Beta to me.

I had to think about it but I agree -- the + quadra values I'd say.

As for the various acting forms, from reading from some bios it seems to me that he learn many of them from a particular school of acting, which he didn't invent. Though I might be uninformed on this bit.

You are correct in that he didn't invent it out of nothing, but he took it to a higher level, and added his own little improvements. That is why actors in general see him as a legend, which wouldn't be justified by his roles as such.

It is said that when A Streetcar Named Desire was first shown in the 1950s, when Brando as Kowalski first entered the stage some people actually thought that a bum had wandered on the stage, since his natural way of acting, especially on stage, was so unusual at the time.

Oh well, ESTp's is said to aim to the first place in the hierachy of the given domain. Since he easily obtained the place of most important actor, from there on he lost his motivation. I find this consistent.

Ok. This I can see as consistent with his life and motivations.

Actually, probably his aiming at partecipating at movies that particularly interested him was his main aim.

That is not important for his type, but - - not really. His career followed, very simplistically, the following steps :

- early career, including A Streetcar Named Desire and movies in the 1950s: acting as a job, getting roles that paid well and further established him as an actor, and even trying his hand in directing. This phase ended with Mutiny on the Bounty (1962), when he was (probably unfairly) blamed for that movie's production problems, so he became a sort of persona non grata among Hollywood's producers. By then he had stopped taking acting very seriously and decided to move to Tahiti.

- up to 1972: the worst time of his career, when he made not-so-memorable movies, until he almost begged to star in The Godfather which re-established him as the leading actor of the age.

- 1972-80: probably his most comfortable period, when he could afford to only make movies that interested him like The Last Tango in Paris or paid him a fortune for very little work, like Superman, Apocalypse Now and The Formula.

In between, he did very little and stayed in Tahiti.

-1980-89: he did virtually nothing, just used up the money he had earned in the previous period on his pet projects.

- 1989 to his death in 1994: running out of money but not able anymore to earn huge amounts of money for doing nearly nothing, and yet not desperate, he did a series of slightly obscure, but fairly well-paying movies such as The Freshman and Don Juan de Marco.

Can you relate to that sort of career progression?

[Rocky]

What about his life makes you think ENTp? He seemed so even in his excesses about eating...

I would say ENTP is probably more likely to over-eat since it's harder for them to judge what goes on with their own bodies.

[IcEPiCk]

true but I over eat sometimes just because I am enjoying the flavour of the food so much.

Its not healthy, but I still do it.

There are different degrees of sensing... I think I am perhaps a more extreme version of ISTP, with almost zero intuition!




ESTP vs ISTP:

ESTP----




sharp eyebrows, fine lines on the forehead.... Cocky.

ISTP----


???
???



More pronounced shape to the forehead... Eyebrows considerably calmer looking when idle. Broad shoulders.

[FDG]

I highly doubt Schumacher is an ISTp. Way too...unethical and only concerned about winning at the expense of everything else, even rivals, which always seemed more of a Beta thing to me.

[jewels]

okay, it seems a LOT Of the photos of ISTps have guys in race car uniforms... apparently, I need to hang out at the race track.

For some reason, there have been a slew of ESTps lately, and I'm not sure shy, since I don't think I get along w/ ESTps very well (for the long-term anyway). You would think that only types that work out should be attractive to you. That's be so much easier!

Yeah, they do have a somewhat cocky expression...there are a few ESTps I really dislike.

I know one ESTp girl that I play tennis w/ and she's really funny and I like her a lot, but I don't know about the guys. Isn't madonna an ESTp? Because this girl totally reminds me of her -- always drawing attention to herself, she keeps an extra tennis ball in her bra strap, yelling to the guys, etc.

Anyway, I'll continue to try to notice ISTps. I think there may be one who works at the Trader Joes. I've gone there for a year and he's never said a word to me and then yesterday he said "your hair looks darker, did you color it?" I've colored my hair for four years and my friends don't even notice...but it was slightly darker that day. The fact that he doesn't talk could mean he is ISTP, right? And he moves quickly. I would talk to him, but you know how ENFps do that shy thing sometimes...actually, he's probably just a shy ESTp....w/ my luck...

[Topaz]

Actually I think a lot of ISTPs work at Trader Joes. Dunno why :wink:

[XoX]

Anyway, I'll continue to try to notice ISTps. I think there may be one who works at the Trader Joes. I've gone there for a year and he's never said a word to me and then yesterday he said "your hair looks darker, did you color it?" I've colored my hair for four years and my friends don't even notice...but it was slightly darker that day. The fact that he doesn't talk could mean he is ISTP, right? And he moves quickly. I would talk to him, but you know how ENFps do that shy thing sometimes...actually, he's probably just a shy ESTp....w/ my luck...

Well this is the closest thing to ISTp you have described so far. Try to flirt with him or talk to him a bit and see how he reacts. ISTps are likely to play "hard to get" (even though really they are probably just shy, lol). Or say something nice to him if you get a chance, a compliment or something, and see how he reacts.

[jewels]

That's good advice, XoX. And thank you everyone for your explanations.

Only prob is, I have no clue how to talk to ISTps! For some reason this guy makes me totally clam up and I can't think of a thing to say. I tried talking about some of the food I was buying once, like maybe six months ago, and and he just sort of nodded but didn't say anything, so I assumed he thought I was crazy and gave up. He just seems really focused on checking out the food when I'm there and I don't want to disturb him. Usually I have no problem talking to grocery store people...except for this one. I think he might possibly like me, just a vibe, because he notices when I'm in the store, and I went in there w/ an ex like a year ago and my ex said he was checking me out. But if neither of us can say anything out loud, well...that could be a problem I'm such a dork. I'm tempted to give him a note like in second grade where you have them check a box if they want to go out w/ you, lol. Arrgggg....

Anyway, I'll continue to try to notice ISTps. I think there may be one who works at the Trader Joes. I've gone there for a year and he's never said a word to me and then yesterday he said "your hair looks darker, did you color it?" I've colored my hair for four years and my friends don't even notice...but it was slightly darker that day. The fact that he doesn't talk could mean he is ISTP, right? And he moves quickly. I would talk to him, but you know how ENFps do that shy thing sometimes...actually, he's probably just a shy ESTp....w/ my luck...

Well this is the closest thing to ISTp you have described so far. Try to flirt with him or talk to him a bit and see how he reacts. ISTps are likely to play "hard to get" (even though really they are probably just shy, lol). Or say something nice to him if you get a chance, a compliment or something, and see how he reacts.

[XoX]

Only prob is, I have no clue how to talk to ISTps! For some reason this guy makes me totally clam up and I can't think of a thing to say.

Hah. I'm not sure if that is how duality should manifest Well ENFp-ISTp is said to be one of the weirdest of the duality relations. I hope your ISTp is not ISFj btw.

But if neither of us can say anything out loud, well...that could be a problem I'm such a dork. I'm tempted to give him a note like in second grade where you have them check a box if they want to go out w/ you, lol. Arrgggg....

Lol. Actually I would be totally clueless as how to make a date in a grocery store. With someone who works there. Lol, I'm like the best person to give you advice here. But the box would probably work with me anyways If I was the receiving party that is. If you have a cell phone then an SMS message is the next best thing to the note in the box. You would have to know his phone number though. Best thing to do is to accidentally bump into him in the street or in a bar or something. How that can be arranged I don't know...

[IcEPiCk]

I highly doubt Schumacher is an ISTp. Way too...unethical and only concerned about winning at the expense of everything else, even rivals, which always seemed more of a Beta thing to me.

Because we are SOOOO ethical all the time! lol

Um in terms of his VI... I will agree there is a change of him being something else because his nose seems to be exadgerated and his eyebrows look almost ENTP. However, he has a certain glare in his eyes.

[cracka]

Best thing to do is to accidentally bump into him in the street or in a bar or something. How that can be arranged I don't know...

There's only one way to do that!!!

It's time to go stalking!!! yay!

Hide in the parking lot and wait for him to leave, then follow him home...then bump into him in front of his place and be like, "OMG HI, HOW R U?"

Would that be too wierd?

[XoX]

Best thing to do is to accidentally bump into him in the street or in a bar or something. How that can be arranged I don't know...

There's only one way to do that!!!

It's time to go stalking!!! yay!

Hide in the parking lot and wait for him to leave, then follow him home...then bump into him in front of his place and be like, "OMG HI, HOW R U?"

Would that be too wierd?

lol. Girls could do that without being perceived as dangerous

[cracka]

Best thing to do is to accidentally bump into him in the street or in a bar or something. How that can be arranged I don't know...

There's only one way to do that!!!

It's time to go stalking!!! yay!

Hide in the parking lot and wait for him to leave, then follow him home...then bump into him in front of his place and be like, "OMG HI, HOW R U?"

Would that be too wierd?

lol. Girls could do that without being perceived as dangerous

, I do it and the next day i'm in handcuffs, women do it, the next day their in my house eating dinner...wtf...lol

[FDG]

I highly doubt Schumacher is an ISTp. Way too...unethical and only concerned about winning at the expense of everything else, even rivals, which always seemed more of a Beta thing to me.

Because we are SOOOO ethical all the time! lol

The ISTps I know just...care less than him. Meant in a good way.

[FDG]

Oh god that kind of ESTp must remain far away from me.

[Blaze]

this was a great compare and contrast.

now i'm kind of thinking about my semi dual . . . :wink:

[flower]

I know.......Give them a piece of paper and a pen and say draw something, anything you like.

If they are ESTp they will draw a penis, if they are ISTp they will draw something else.

[meatburger]

If they are ESTp they will draw a penis

This is definately a good way. I would also draw a penis

8------

[Topaz]

(.)(.)
something else :wink:

[meatburger]

Damn, how did you know this about me?

See even the word "penis" brings ESTp to this thread in droves

Its not just you Herzy its all ESTp

[dreamer]

Also,

with the ISTP I know, I sorta feel like I can't be too goofy/crazy. It takes him a minute to say something goofy/crazy back. They have less energy. And he looks down on stupidity. And he's more neat. And he refuses to do drugs or drinking because it's stupid.

with ESTPs, you feel like you can just be crazy and they'll be right there beside you without awkward pauses to figure out what to say and they are not wary of being stupid, they actually love it, the riskier and dumber it is, the betterrrr

[schrödinger's cat]

Also,

with the ISTP I know, I sorta feel like I can't be too goofy/crazy. It takes him a minute to say something goofy/crazy back. They have less energy. And he looks down on stupidity. And he's more neat. And he refuses to do drugs or drinking because it's stupid.

with ESTPs, you feel like you can just be crazy and they'll be right there beside you without awkward pauses to figure out what to say and they are not wary of being stupid, they actually love it, the riskier and dumber it is, the betterrrr

It's a good point - around your dual you feel you can totally be yourself. For you that would be the ESTp. For me it's the ISTp. I can be as goofy and crazy around ISTps as I naturally am, because they'll take it the right way. When ISTps flip their silly switches they're goofy in such a cuddly and huggable and giggly kind of way. It's as if Clint Eastwood should turn out to be ticklish as hell. Or as if Rick from Casablanca cracks up with laughter because you're both making "what if" jokes, and then you put a tea cosy on his head and he lets you take a photo of him.

About the craziness, drinking, drugs and neatness - not sure I agree with you here, because I had the impression that ISTps drink a lot at times and have to watch out. Drugs - no idea. But neat? ... ISTps seem to hate unnecessary trouble, so if you can avoid trouble by tidying up, they'll do that. The ISTps I know, though, tidy up their workshop or wherever they potter about with their tools and guitars and computers. The bedroom is a mess.

[Rocky]

... I had the impression that ISTps drink a lot at times and have to watch out. ... ISTps seem to hate unnecessary trouble, so if you can avoid trouble by tidying up, they'll do that. The ISTps I know, though, tidy up their workshop or wherever they potter about with their tools and guitars and computers. The bedroom is a mess.

I agree.

[jessica129]

My room is a joke.. I'm embarrased to let even my mother see it. If someone ever happened to pop in unexpectedly, please, just shoot me. Although I did clean it yesterday.

Most people prefer to socialize, go out, and have a good time when they're intoxicated..not i. I like to clean. lol, hmm.

[Topaz]

My room is a joke.. I'm embarrased to let even my mother see it. If someone ever happened to pop in unexpectedly, please, just shoot me. Although I did clean it yesterday.

Most people prefer to socialize, go out, and have a good time when they're intoxicated..not i. I like to clean. lol, hmm.

In that case Id like to invite you over for a few drinks Waddayasay?

[baydog]

Also,

with the ISTP I know, I sorta feel like I can't be too goofy/crazy. It takes him a minute to say something goofy/crazy back. They have less energy. And he looks down on stupidity. And he's more neat. And he refuses to do drugs or drinking because it's stupid.

with ESTPs, you feel like you can just be crazy and they'll be right there beside you without awkward pauses to figure out what to say and they are not wary of being stupid, they actually love it, the riskier and dumber it is, the betterrrr

I think ISTP's likes humor relating to situtations invovling people or things. I used to crack an ISTP up with humor about i need to take my steroids so i can finish this hard task facing me. Another ISTP that i used to live with would joke me about our ESFP roommate's effort to impress a female that had me rolling. They like humor involving situations if life with people (sort of like Seinfield episodes) from my observations.

[mikemex]

I think just a few things are more interesting that the room of an ISTp...

My friend's room is a mess. He has all kind of tools and electronic and mechanical stuff going around. Has several books of the kind "interesting optical tricks..." and such.

He's a fan of Salvador Dali and did a representation of a painting of him in which there are many clocks and one lies in a tree arm's, like it was made of rubber.

The first thing he said when I first went to his house was "my bedroom is a little messy...". I just replied "come on, you don't really think I'm going to judge you, do you?" He just smiled back at me.

One sad thing about my friend is that he gets too absorbed by his things. I've called him several times like for a month now and he doesn't have time for anything.

[stefana]

One sad thing about my friend is that he gets too absorbed by his things. I've called him several times like for a month now and he doesn't have time for anything.

Man, I feel for this. His libido is just cathected to his things. Try imagining how it will be like if it's transferred to a woman. Undivided attention.

[mikemex]

Sounds like a good thing to be the object of attention

[Topaz]

One sad thing about my friend is that he gets too absorbed by his things. I've called him several times like for a month now and he doesn't have time for anything.

Man, I feel for this. His libido is just cathected to his things. Try imagining how it will be like if it's transferred to a woman. Undivided attention.

"cathected"????
Anywho. Do you really believe an ISTP woman would give undivided attention? Stop teasing.

[eunice]

My room is a joke.. I'm embarrased to let even my mother see it. If someone ever happened to pop in unexpectedly, please, just shoot me. Although I did clean it yesterday.

Most people prefer to socialize, go out, and have a good time when they're intoxicated..not i. I like to clean. lol, hmm.

Hmmm, I hate to clean up my room 'cos I'm really lazy to do it, so I try to prevent it from getting dirty by not eating in my room, walking in with dirty feet etc. However, when I clean my room once in a while, I will do a very thorough job.

[stefana]

One sad thing about my friend is that he gets too absorbed by his things. I've called him several times like for a month now and he doesn't have time for anything.

Man, I feel for this. His libido is just cathected to his things. Try imagining how it will be like if it's transferred to a woman. Undivided attention.

"cathected"????
Anywho. Do you really believe an ISTP woman would give undivided attention? Stop teasing.

It's Freudian. Link to cathexis.

I don't know if an ISTP woman will give undivided attention though. I have no personal experience. : )

[Topaz]

One sad thing about my friend is that he gets too absorbed by his things. I've called him several times like for a month now and he doesn't have time for anything.

Man, I feel for this. His libido is just cathected to his things. Try imagining how it will be like if it's transferred to a woman. Undivided attention.

"cathected"????
Anywho. Do you really believe an ISTP woman would give undivided attention? Stop teasing.

It's Freudian. Link to cathexis.

I don't know if an ISTP woman will give undivided attention though. I have no personal experience. : )

Im going to give you mad points for that word. I thought it was a type-o.
Did you study Freud? I hardly can relate to anything Ive read about him. Maybe it only applies to some people ... like Betas
If I were going to go with shrinks Id go with Maslow or Rogers.