Differences between SLI-ISTps and SLE-ESTps

[Reuben]

Hey n1cole, get on skype.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Telling people what to do (without them asking for it) is what ENTjs and ESTjs do, not ESTps. ESTps are so sexy that they get you to sleep with them but it's also your own will.

Pushiness is Te, not Se. Pushiness is Te, not Se. Pushiness is Te, not Se. TE IS MOBILE AND DYNAMIC. SE IS IMMOBILE AND STATIC.

omg rick's site is lame sometimes, how can something be both mobile and static at the same time? that doesn't make any sense- he is right on the static part but not on the mobilization.

ISTps are hesitant about telling people what to do though, I agree. Their duals love to give advice and suggestion for others, but ISTps don't do this- but neither do ESTps. INFps are the ones that like to be bossy actually. (in that sense I mean, as far as giving out life advice and telling people what to do.) Part of the reason why INFps and ENTjs don't get along in fact is we are both dominant alpha males in that sense.

Thinking of an INFp male as always being a passive 'bottom' in all ways is untrue and boring and uninteresting.



I wish ppl understood this about socionics. I hate having to rant like a narc drag queen about something kinda stupid and unimportant, so my apologies if I'm coming across too intense. But the theory can't contradict itself otherwise it's bullshit. And I don't think that it is, I think it's one of the truest things in the world. =)

[Suz]

I know it's not flattering, but I stand by my description of SLIs as "grouchy teddy bears", for the men. When they're grumpy, they let people know by complaining or snapping at people, but they definitely have a soft side and they're not aggressive in the least. SLEs tend to be either a bit goofy, like they're manchildren, or alternatively "badass" and "rough".

Concisely: if SLIs are "dry", SLEs are "calm".

yep that does hold true ime as well. the grouchy teddy bear appearance...

[Reuben]

I know this SLI guy who appears to be a grouchy teddy bear. He sleeps all day on the couch outside the library, and it's cute to see him wake up and grunt "what."

[jessica129]

Reuben you'd never type me SLI if you knew me IRL. Just saying.

[Reuben]

You remind me of this Se-creative girl. She also loves cute animals. Kassie also loves cute animals, and is Se-creative IMO, but she's not the one I'm referring to.

I don't see any Si-ego in you at all. Even your kitty looks Se and predatory, like yourself.

[jessica129]

Stop mocking me, I'm serious

[Reuben]

Haha I'm serious too. But honestly speaking, do you find LSI more attractive than SLI for yourself or the other way around? I'm asking which one you like more for yourself.

[jessica129]

I am NOT LSI. It's either SLE or SLI, nothing else.

[Reuben]

Really? So SLI?

[Nico1e]

Hey n1cole, get on skype.

It took me a second to realize you were doing an imperative sentence. That's not the kind of thing that annoys me, actually. I actually took it seriously and I was about to reply that I had already downloaded skype and, lol, I almost uninstalled the program because I was so annoyed about the fact that I tried to change the setting about whether or not it starts up automatically when windows starts, and when I changed that setting, and tried to hit 'okay' or whatever, the program wouldn't let me out of the options dialogue box until I had told it which port to use, and it *wouldn't let me* just change the one setting about not starting up when you start your computer. That, alone, was enough to anger me, because I was in a foul mood, as I have been for much of this week.

But anyway, imperatives given online, about an unimportant and non-controversial topic, are not very annoying.

[Nico1e]

Telling people what to do (without them asking for it) is what ENTjs and ESTjs do, not ESTps. ESTps are so sexy that they get you to sleep with them but it's also your own will.

Pushiness is Te, not Se. Pushiness is Te, not Se. Pushiness is Te, not Se. TE IS MOBILE AND DYNAMIC. SE IS IMMOBILE AND STATIC.

omg rick's site is lame sometimes, how can something be both mobile and static at the same time? that doesn't make any sense- he is right on the static part but not on the mobilization.

ISTps are hesitant about telling people what to do though, I agree. Their duals love to give advice and suggestion for others, but ISTps don't do this- but neither do ESTps. INFps are the ones that like to be bossy actually. (in that sense I mean, as far as giving out life advice and telling people what to do.) Part of the reason why INFps and ENTjs don't get along in fact is we are both dominant alpha males in that sense.

Thinking of an INFp male as always being a passive 'bottom' in all ways is untrue and boring and uninteresting.



I wish ppl understood this about socionics. I hate having to rant like a narc drag queen about something kinda stupid and unimportant, so my apologies if I'm coming across too intense. But the theory can't contradict itself otherwise it's bullshit. And I don't think that it is, I think it's one of the truest things in the world. =)

B&D, I am actually taking you seriously on this. It's something I will pay attention to. I make tons of mistakes when I type people. I would need to be more specific about the types of situations that this happens in, in order to understand what's really going on and which element is being used, whether it's Te or Se. But again, I hear what you're saying and I will pay attention next time it happens.

[Mechman]

What are some of the key differences and similarities between SLI and SLE?

[Korpsy Knievel]

Turn a sock inside-out and you'll understand the similarities and differences of SLIs and SLEs.

[Beautiful sky]

SLE- Se is a static function opposite of Si, a dynamic function; SLEs may sometimes seem dismissive of those of a lower social status, as if they were weak or inferior in some way. Likewise, they see dependence as weakness, and so strive to minimize their dependence on others, especially in their personal relationships. They read people's external cues not internal or guessing what may have happened to result in their bad mood as SLI are likely to do because SLI have conscious Te, therefore they can guess the dynamic actions or sequence of actions behind each event. Static image produced by Se, cause SLI to say "your insecure" as an example. They tend to be very plain spoken, straight forward and forthcoming. Direct motion, not wasted. An iconoclast, attempting to forge their own path, subverting things and trying to do their own things. Exist outside of systems to make new ones.

They ignore Si- SLEs are aware of how something makes them feel, but give little concern to it; an SLE who pays very little attention to their physical self may ignore it to such an extent that they will over eat dangerously.

SLI - Si internalizes sensations and experiences them in their mind; can relive or dream up these sensations and through empathy can recognize when others around them aren't feeling well, or what actions caused others to feel a certain way. Know how they feel and call attention to their physical and mental self, sometimes retelling their past events, if they got hurt, etc. Lucid, uncomfortable with speaking, hesitant, wasted motion. Does not assert their will over a system, they are not an iconoclast, so will endure staying at a same job for a long time. Exist within a system.



Ignore Se - They are impervious to forceful attempts by others to make them do things and become very stubborn when pressured; like you did with Kassie.

Further reading:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ht=differences

[Korpsy Knievel]

Back to behaviorism again, I see. So much for my structural analysis.

Start here and report back with more specific questions:

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SLI
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SLE

[Mechman]

SLE- Se is a static function opposite of Si, a dynamic function; SLEs may sometimes seem dismissive of those of a lower social status, as if they were weak or inferior in some way. Likewise, they see dependence as weakness, and so strive to minimize their dependence on others, especially in their personal relationships. They read people's external cues not internal or guessing what may have happened to result in their bad mood as SLI are likely to do because SLI have conscious Te, therefore they can guess the dynamic actions or sequence of actions behind each event. Static image produced by Se, cause SLI to say "your insecure" as an example. They tend to be very plain spoken, straight forward and forthcoming. Direct motion, not wasted. An iconoclast, attempting to forge their own path, subverting things and trying to do their own things. Exist outside of systems to make new ones.

They ignore Si- SLEs are aware of how something makes them feel, but give little concern to it; an SLE who pays very little attention to their physical self may ignore it to such an extent that they will over eat dangerously.

SLI - Si internalizes sensations and experiences them in their mind; can relive or dream up these sensations and through empathy can recognize when others around them aren't feeling well, or what actions caused others to feel a certain way. Know how they feel and call attention to their physical and mental self, sometimes retelling their past events, if they got hurt, etc. Lucid, uncomfortable with speaking, hesitant, wasted motion. Does not assert their will over a system, they are not an iconoclast, so will endure staying at a same job for a long time. Exist within a system.



Ignore Se - They are impervious to forceful attempts by others to make them do things and become very stubborn when pressured; like you did with Kassie.

Further reading:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ht=differences

Based on this alone, it's not looking like I'm an SLI.

I think I might have misunderstood Si.

Edit: And now reading the decriptions k0rpsy gave, I'm back and forth between SLI and SLE. I can relate to both.

[Mechman]

I'm not really sure where to go with this. I'm confused as to whether or not I'm an SLE or an SLI.

If either of you guys are familiar with the MBTI cognitive functions, I relate most to Se and Ti(although not entirely sure which order). I'll post those descriptions and maybe you guys can figure out which functions they'd represent in Socionics.

Se:http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exe...rted_Sensation

Ti: http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exe...erted_Thinking

Basically, MBTI Se seems a lot like a mix between Socionics Se and Si and I have no idea what MBTI Ti would relate to.

Edit: I'd rather figure this out on my own, but plunging myself into an entire system I'm foreign to and trying to figure everything out seems a lot more difficult than just giving you guys a piece of something you're foreign to and having you relate that to something you understand well.

[Red Villain]

I'm not really sure where to go with this. I'm confused as to whether or not I'm an SLE or an SLI.

If either of you guys are familiar with the MBTI cognitive functions, I relate most to Se and Ti(although not entirely sure which order). I'll post those descriptions and maybe you guys can figure out which functions they'd represent in Socionics.

Se:http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exe...rted_Sensation

Ti: http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exe...erted_Thinking

Basically, MBTI Se seems a lot like a mix between Socionics Se and Si and I have no idea what MBTI Ti would relate to.

Look, if you're trying to identify yourself with a system that is slightly less similar to a horoscope than MBTI, I highly suggest breaking with all correlations you currently harbor between the two systems- there are none.

In terms of Socionics here are some common themes and additional resources of and

- harmony, pleasure, health, comfort, pleasantness, satisfaction, convenience, quality, cosiness, aesthetics

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_sensing

- authority, influence, desire, political interest/personal investment, competition/struggle, willpower, impact, force, appearance, readiness, tactics, territory

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_sensing


I would suggest learning about functions as well, and how each information element works in a certain function.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Functions
http://socionics.us/theory/model.shtml

[Codie]

I originally VI'd you as SLI, wasn't sure, you do give off a similar expression that other SLI's I've observed have before.. including pose etc.

Forget about MBTI.. it cant be converted to socionics. Start learning socionics from scratch.

Maybe you're LSI (ISTj)?

Do you relate better to beta or delta quadra?
http://www.socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Beta_Quadra
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=Delta_Quadra

Which types do you think you get along with best? (this is the biggest clue in figuring your type)

[ashlesha]

Funny, sle crossed my mind before in the other thread. I'm still not sure though and I suck at typing on demand.

[Mechman]

The reason I posted those MBTI function descriptions is because they explain how my brain functions better than I could myself. I don't agree with MBTI on the surface(dichotomies, lame tests, lame type descriptions), but if you dig deep and ignore all the superficial stuff, the cognitive functions aren't that bad.

I'll look at the links you guys posted and get back to you guys in a little bit.

[ashlesha]

I prefer those descriptions you linked over pretty much any socionics descriptions fwiw. I prefer to go with what works but some people are purists about only using socionics material or whatever, its up to you.

[blackburry]

Isn't jessica SLI agian?

[Mechman]

Look, if you're trying to identify yourself with a system that is slightly less similar to a horoscope than MBTI, I highly suggest breaking with all correlations you currently harbor between the two systems- there are none.

In terms of Socionics here are some common themes and additional resources of and

- harmony, pleasure, health, comfort, pleasantness, satisfaction, convenience, quality, cosiness, aesthetics

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_sensing

- authority, influence, desire, political interest/personal investment, competition/struggle, willpower, impact, force, appearance, readiness, tactics, territory

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_sensing


I would suggest learning about functions as well, and how each information element works in a certain function.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Functions
http://socionics.us/theory/model.shtml

I think part of my issue when reading a lot of this stuff is the lack of any tangible examples. It doesn't seem very straight forward to begin with(for the most part) and without explaining how certain things look in day to day life, it leaves me wondering just exactly what it means.

Most of the Si stuff goes right over my head, aside from enjoying aesthetics and physical comfort. For example:

A strong ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states.

Individuals who possess Si as a base function are drawn to situations that satisfy their inner physical experience. Whenever Si base function individuals are taking part in something that involves recognizing, recreating, or analyzing physical states, they feel a great deal of personal power and enthusiasm.

What does that even mean?

As far as Se goes, I relate to pretty much everything aside from wanting control of other people and "impacting the world" or whatever.

Just to add, I relate to both enjoying something(Si) and pushing for something(Se). I enjoy once I get it and once I'm done enjoying it, I push for something else.

[Mechman]

I originally VI'd you as SLI, wasn't sure, you do give off a similar expression that other SLI's I've observed have before.. including pose etc.

Forget about MBTI.. it cant be converted to socionics. Start learning socionics from scratch.

Maybe you're LSI (ISTj)?

Do you relate better to beta or delta quadra?
http://www.socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Beta_Quadra
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=Delta_Quadra

Which types do you think you get along with best? (this is the biggest clue in figuring your type)

I relate to parts of both quadra's and a lot of the stuff within the quadra's is situational for me, at best.

For example, the Beta Quadra likes enthusiastic, group activities where everyone is participating. Delta prefers small groups with a more controlled atmosphere. I enjoy both. Each have a time and a place and a lot of it depends on my mood. Sometimes I feel like throwin down, other times I feel like chillin out.

[Ryan]

You might find this helpful.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...lued-Functions

[redbaron]

I like Maritsa's differentiation. I find it to be right on the mark.

And, SLEs are like that, mechman, their energy can come and go in spurts. They'll get tons done one day, working super hard and then just want to chill for a long time and be lazy. I would guess that SLIs energy is maybe more even and conservationist with not many huge bursts? I'm not sure.

[Absurd]

If either of you guys are familiar with the MBTI cognitive functions, I relate most to Se and Ti(although not entirely sure which order). I'll post those descriptions and maybe you guys can figure out which functions they'd represent in Socionics.

Ti: http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exe...erted_Thinking

I do not resonate with this Ti description by Leonore Thomson at all nor does it resonate with me. In other words it is quite alien modus operandi to me.

Most of the Si stuff goes right over my head, aside from enjoying aesthetics and physical comfort. For example: What does that even mean?

You can break it down further to alpha Si and delta Si which is different.

As far as Se goes, I relate to pretty much everything aside from wanting control of other people and "impacting the world" or whatever.

You've got a problem then

[Mechman]

You might find this helpful.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...lued-Functions

I relate most to Ti and Se as base/creative functions, some Si and bits of Te.

So I guess that narrows it down to Ti/Se. I'm going to post the descriptions and bold what I most relate to.

Ti as leading function in LSI (ISTj; Maxim Gorky) and LII (INTj; Robespierre) - very attached to his understanding of something, his thinking, his logic and concepts, confident and conservative in these. It is impossible to convince him otherwise, as he "lives" by this, but does not necessarily share his understanding with others. If his understanding does not converge with facts, then at times he will judge the facts to be of lower value. Any attempts at criticizing his understanding make him feel irritated. He knows how reason logically, but does not like to defend his vision of the situation: "Those who understood - understood, the rest don't have it in them". Thus he often surrounds himself with those who accept his logical judgments and who do not make attempts to dispute them. Changes his thinking with great difficultly and needs a lot of time to reflect on mistakes. Likes it when everything converges with the way he understands it. If this cannot be achieved - experiences irritation. Therefore, one can only persuade him using solid arguments. He is often skeptical of new information, if he is unsure in something: everything must be carefully weighed before saying "yes." His thinking is like a foundament - it is solid, something that can be "leaned on" in any situation, thus in this matter there cannot be any risks. It is difficult to require from them to immediately approve someone else's views. In general, he tries to understand everything first, and only then accept it for himself. If it is something he cannot understand, then mastering new information progresses slowly, since it is difficult to accept it for himself. Thus he can spend very long time learning something before utilizing it, even if the question is very simple.

Ti as creative function in ILE (ENTp; Don Quixote) and SLE (ESTp; Zhukov) - likes to deliver long, detailed, creative explanations, excellent teacher or instructor, "I will explain for as long as they will listen, until I'm 100% sure that everyone understood everything." Asking him a question sometimes you will be listening to an answer for hours. Sometimes he simply looks for someone to speak about his understanding of something (escaping such a situation can be difficult, unless one tells him so directly). Something similar can be observed with objective logic, Te, as a second function, but here the emphasis is not on providing facts but rather on others gaining an understanding. For this reason, at times his explanations are simplified and delivered as if for little children. Such person is constantly looking for an audience with questions, but he explains material not in terms of knowledge, but from the standpoint of how he understands it, that is more lucidly and meticulously. He may gravitate towards a field where something has not been studied and understood before, may start exploring unknown for him spheres in which he has no qualifications, since this will allows him to develop and expand the scope of "understanding", which is very tempting for Ti as creative function.

Se as leading function in SLE (ESTp; Zhukov) and SEE (ESFp; Napoleon) - this person is very self-confident in his abilities, believes that he can do everything. Often makes an impression of a willful person: "what I consider to be right, is right for everyone" [translator's note: quite possibly this results from Ji-creative and not dominant Se since this behavior can be observed in IxEs as well]. Makes an impression of a volitional man - he seems to never have enough space around him, "like a bull in a china shop." If he is endowed with physical strength and stamina, he detests "wimps"; if the opposite and he turned out to be weak then considers all stronger men to be "goons". Often good at handling money, but in this issue can be either too conservative or too cocky. Life is perceived through the prism of power: "who is over whom". To be heard by him, you have to make yourself be respected. Any weakness is seen as a deficiency, so often he can use it to his advantage not seeing anything wrong by it. They are constantly doing something, developing some skills. Usually, their strength is visible to the naked eye, but it is lacking in flexibility, rather it is something monumental and conservative. Always try to be first in any enterprise, and if it doesn't turn out this way this angers them greatly. If their strength and ability are questioned, it may lead to an outbreak of aggression. Potentially - great athletes, but the constant over-evaluation of own abilities is fraught with possible injuries. Preaches the gospel of power and abilities, confident in own external appearance. Asserts his own uniqueness, originality. Sees no need to get someone's approval for a particular action; implements his solutions a very self-confident manner. Does not hesitate to use force anywhere. Grows angry and irritated if someone has contradicted him and this is usually visible outwardly. Sometimes, he first falls into irritation, and then only afterwards he understands something of what has been said to him. Listens out the opinion of someone else only when he couldn't accomplish something himself or that person is seen as having authority in his eyes. Loves extreme situations as this is a way to prove to himself that he is, he exists. In addition, this makes it easier for him to get approval from society for his actions. First, they'll do something, and only later understand what they had done. Person of action, agency. Inclined towards philosophy of overcoming or at least coping, of victory at all costs "could topple a bear - you're a man." Prefers to win over the opposite sex, to take by siege like a fortress. With this always sure that everything depends only on himself, his power, his capabilities. Hence becomes extremely irritated when he realizes that he has not achieved his goal. His weakest point is inability to understand that in life not everything depends on him alone. Therefore, if such a person does not achieve success in life, he grows very frustrated because at heart he considers himself a failure. Very sure that he looks and dresses well. Find it hard to be in a situation where nothing can be done, nothing can be changed, to be placed in "limbo", to just wait for the right moment for action, not "blurt out" everything at once. They are always accompanied by restless activity, by workaholism. Not a minute without action, which means sometimes the incapacity to stop and think. If there is a pause, then it has to get filled. If they are talking, immediately come up topics of problems and action.

Se as creative function in LSI (ISTj; Maxim Gorky) and ESI (ISFj; Dreiser) - these people have artistic and creative approach to handling power, money, and different skills. The ideal trainers who can make others more powerful by teaching them unique and original techniques or skills. His strength is flexible, sophisticated, it aims to be relevant to the situation. He can work effectively and quickly, sometimes doing several things at once. Great financiers, but prone to making risky moves, thus they can become rich and go broke several times during their life. They love to compete. In contrast to leading function, for them them the process itself is more important than the result. First place isn't necessary, the second will suit them, too, as this means there is room for further work. Often have a liking for the "extreme." If they have no opportunity to realize their second function, they can sometimes deliberately create a problem - fall into a very deep a financial or physical "hole", to then be able to work on getting out of it. Often become good at sports. Able to work towards a victory creatively and professionally. Actually there are many things that they are capable of. Can turn poverty into wealth anywhere. They can manipulate external data of other people [translator's note: one example of this "manipulation of external data of others" that can be observed as Se-creatives easily picking up on flaws or fine points in someone's appearance, facial features or mannerisms] . It is often useful to invite him to some business, because he knows just the right thing to do so that it will yield some real profit. Uses force creatively, knows when it is necessary to "tighten the screws" for his business and when it is necessary to loosen them. Works in teams from exactly such a position of creating the necessary balance of freedom and control over concrete situations. Can make for good guardians in terms that children grow up not too spoiled and not too intimidated: sometimes he gives encouragement, other times can apply pressure if needed. If he undertakes training often achieves great results. Often they are parents of outstanding athletes who started training at an early age. If he accumulates a lot of negatives on his evaluative functions, the output is often given via the second function, so it is very dangerous to anger and to provoke him. Can hide an offense for a long time, not demonstratively giving it any value, since this function tries to appear adequate to the outside world, provide a "good product", but at some point the "cup" grows full and he can lose control: there is sudden outburst of aggression, such that the person cannot understand himself what he had done, then come the consequences. Therefore, it is extremely important for him to physically 'discharge': engage in sport or hobbies, use a boxing pear as the last resort. It is better to let the negative out immediately rather than to let it accumulate until it becomes too much - this way is best for everyone. They know how to create for themselves and others a certain image, how to work with the clothes, very innovative in this, create their own original style rather than following the current fashion. If necessary, they know how to save money and make a living with very little. Sometimes they are so clever in financial activities that can make money as if out of thin air. They love to handle and manipulate forms: collect stamps or badges, cars, build interiors, draw and paint. As children love to play with soldiers. Usually they do not like when someone touches their things or belongings, as skillful manipulation of these is their "product" so when someone does this they may appear to them as if a competitor. They know how to handle things so that they serve them for many years - turn this into an entire form of art. Old, used things they do not rush to throw out but attempt to still use it somehow, thus find work for their second function.

Edit: The Si descriptions I relate to pretty well also, but the Te stuff I don't relate to very well at all, just small portions.

Also, to add. I understand the Se base, "prism of power" concept, but I generally don't care about that stuff. When I was younger I did, but now that I'm older I've pretty much gotten to a point where I say, "Screw hierarchies and social structure, it's a load of crap. I'm on my own team," although I do still see through that lens. "This guy's obviously in charge" or "Based on how these guys are acting, that guy's obviously the grunt of the group."

[redbaron]

"Screw hierarchies and social structure, it's a load of crap. I'm on my own team," although I do still see through that lens. "This guy's obviously in charge" or "Based on how these guys are acting, that guy's obviously the grunt of the group."

LOL You are so beta ST.

[Ryan]

I went through your posts. LSI seems right.

[Absurd]

LOL You are so beta ST.

Wonder how many more weirdos are doing the crouching tiger, hidden dragon in delta quadra. Nah, kidding. What fits you best, fts you best.

[Saberstorm]

This is a picture of a lead extraverted sensor: Floyd Mayweather Jr. the boxing champ.



You can see how charged up he ALWAYS is. You are not lead Se. I admit you seem more MERRY than SLIs - so you could be an LSI.

[Mechman]

This is a picture of a lead extraverted sensor: Floyd Mayweather Jr. the boxing champ.



You can see how charged up he ALWAYS is. You are not lead Se. I admit you seem more MERRY than SLIs - so you could be an LSI.

I read on the Sociowiki or whatever that Ti-SLE's can appear introverted, maybe that's what I am.

[Saberstorm]

I think Mayweather is an SEE not SLE, anyway.

[silke]

Also, to add. I understand the Se base, "prism of power" concept, but I generally don't care about that stuff. When I was younger I did, but now that I'm older I've pretty much gotten to a point where I say, "Screw hierarchies and social structure, it's a load of crap. I'm on my own team," although I do still see through that lens. "This guy's obviously in charge" or "Based on how these guys are acting, that guy's obviously the grunt of the group."

This is a good description of what Se feels like link written by someone who typed as SLE. Basically I find that the mind of SLEs and EPs in general is very open to whatever is happening right now, in the present moment. Like that description says it's like a constant radar that picks up what currently is around them; they easily absorb that kind of information. The mind of IPs in contrast is as if submerged into itself, but IPs in general are better at tracking progression of events than EPs, since they are dynamic types while EPs like SLE are static.

You can also check out description of temperaments and see if Flexible-maneuvering EP temperament or Receptive-adaptive IP temperament describes you better.

Then of course there are the cognitive styles which imo are the most sure way of typing yourself in socionics. For SLI you want to check out the Vortical-Synergetic section, for SLE - Holographic-Panoramic. There are quotes posted in commentary to that article that illustrate the differences in these styles of thinking.

[Mechman]

I think Mayweather is an SEE not SLE, anyway.

I was gonna mention that. Seems like an MBTI ESFP, which is a lot like Socionics SEE.

[Beautiful sky]

Just to add, I relate to both enjoying something(Si) and pushing for something(Se). I enjoy once I get it and once I'm done enjoying it, I push for something else.

That's not how it works and if that was how it worked, it would be true for most people.

How are you an iconoclast based on how you showed up on the forum and how you treated the people around you, here?

[ArchonAlarion]

Lenore's descriptions are useful imo.

The Ti description below can be found in the articles section on this site. I like it because it seems like "pure" Ti, rather than the usual Ne perspective bias. Note that the author does not use "objective" as a synonym for extroverted. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...lements-Primer


White (introverted) logic
We shall call 'logical' those feelings that arise in the process of comparing one object to another on the basis of any objective parameter — for example, a feeling of distance, weight, volume, worth, strength, quality, etc. These are feelings of objective evaluation that in certain situations help activate or passivate the person experiencing them. Such an individual perceives information from without as a sense of objects' proper or improper correlation/proportion, a sense of balance or imbalance between them, or an awareness or unawareness of the advantages of one object over another. This also includes all feelings that results from knowing or not knowing objects and phenomena — curiosity, respect, fear, and a sense of the logicalness or illogicalness of things, as well as a sense of one's own power or powerlessness before different objects.

All these feelings we shall call logical. Their sum is a person's sense of logic. People have differently developed senses of logic. We might say that logical feelings convey information about the knowledge or lack of knowledge of objects, their comparability or incomparability, and the balance or lack of balance between them, as well as about space and objects' position in space. They are objective because they do not take into consideration the interests and needs of people, but only correlations of objective qualities. This perceptual element determines a person's ability or inability to see the objective, logical relations between objects or their components.

When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the ability to logically evaluate interrelations of objective static reality, or the world of objects. He also the ability to change according to his desires the interrelations between the characteristics of various objects and hence influence the objects themselves that carry these characteristics. Correct evaluation of one's interrelations with other objects helps the individual know which objects should be avoided, and which can be "hunted." Such an individual is able to set his logic — or his knowledge of objectifiable reality, patterns, laws, and correlations of the objective world — in opposition to others' knowledge. He has the ability to mould and perfect not only his own knowledge of objectifiable reality, but also that of other people. This creates a feeling of power when clashing with other people's logic or lack thereof.