ISTp-ENFp duality complementary subtypes (IEE-SLI)

[Wynch]

Brown, but I still don't know why you're talking about my type. I wasn't asking about my type. I'm trying to see how you come by what you say about Ne.

[kensi]

Brown, but I still don't know why you're talking about my type. I wasn't asking about my type. I'm trying to see how you come by what you say about Ne.

You said i typed you earlier...i'm trying to remember where...

There are many subtype theories out there...its somewhat of a hypothetical thing....but usefull nevertheless to further explain differences in people
......i'll see if i can find you a good link. ok...that explains it. ok

[Sirena]

You said i typed you earlier...i'm trying to remember where...

There are many subtype theories out there...its somewhat of a hypothetical thing....but usefull nevertheless to further explain differences in people
......i'll see if i can find you a good link. ok...that explains it. ok

kensi, she's saying she doesn't want you to type her. Why do you keep going back to this?

[kensi]

You've already said that I resemble either alpha SF or EII. EII is absolutely ludicrous,

kensi, she's saying she doesn't want you to type her. Why do you keep going back to this?

I'm still trying to figure out where?? ....where i typed her EII ??...i don't remember

[jewels]

I hope this isn't the case, as I'm dating an Si subtype.

I read the through about 1/3 of this thread and decided to share my two cents in regards to subtype's effect on duality. Note that there is little empiral data to back up what I'm about to say and it very well could be completely off. I will continue to use the ENFp-ISTp example that this thread started with.

Subtype does have an impact on dual relations; this has been stated previously in the thread, and many people have noted that Ne compliments Si, Te compliments Fi, etc. This conclusion fits with classical socionics. Given that, an ENFp-Fi will be best matched with an ISTp-Te. (Note that I believe that the strength of one's subtype is a spectrum, i.e., continuous; thus, one could be balanced between his two leading functions, favor one strongly, weakly, etc.) Great, but what about an ENFp-Fi paried with an ISTp-Si? Well, for the sake of making the example clear, let's say each partner has a very strong subtype. (Warning: crazy Ti theory coming up.)

The ENFp-Fi will have a strong Fi, this suppresses (or weakens) two functions in his mental block (it also impacts his vital block, but I'm not going to get into that right now): his leading Ne function and his PoLR Ti function. Suppression of both his Ne and Ti will lead to an increased expression and strength of his role Se function. To use numbers for demonstrative purposes, we have an ego block of 90% Fi, 10% Ne and a super ego block of 90% Se and 10% Ti. What does this indicate, an ENFp with a strong Fi subtype will begin to resemble an ESFp, or the ENFp's look-a-like. Do the same analysis for the ISTp with the strong Si subtype and you find she/he begins to resemble an ISFp, or his comparative. Now what do you get when you match an ISFp with an ESFp? Nothing great: an extinguishing or contrary relationship. In conclusion if you and your "dual" have strongly conflicting subtypes, maybe the relationship will have problems. In the above case, the ENFp-Fi may want to consider an INTp-Te (assuming he can't find an ISTp-Te).

[Cheesy]

I hope this isn't the case, as I'm dating an Si subtype.

This seems a bit exaggerated.. an ISTp is still an ISTp.
Sure, subtypes mean something but one's type doesn't become another because of a strong subtype. An ENFp with a strong Fi subtype might act like ESFp when there's no dual present but ultimately Ne is still the leading function. Se is a less ideal function to use compared to Ne. We all use our weak functions and some of us develop better use of them but ultimately an ENFp with developed Se would still prefer to use Ne if the situation is welcoming of it. So yes, according to the theory matching subtypes complement each other better, but subtypes don't change one's type. If there's an ENFp who consistently prefers to use Se in situations where his Ne is welcomed then they are ESFp. A dual would encourage you to use your leading function, otherwise they'd be a different type. I believe that strong creative subtypes are more about having an even weaker polr function and needing a dual who will be extra lenient to this and both of you will protect each other even better from each other's polr.

What I'm saying is that even with a strong subtype, an ENFp is still ultimately an ENFp and an ISTp is ultimately ISTp. We all put our guards up in our daily lives, enhancing attributes that aren't really in our true nature, the point is not if we can do that better than others but that we ultimately become more like ourselves in an accepting environment like duality.

[Jarno]

I don't know whether this thread is resurrected, but here's my experience.

Same subtypes are better.

Though duality stays duality, same subtypes just gives an incredible chemistry.

[jewels]

This seems a bit exaggerated.. an ISTp is still an ISTp.
Sure, subtypes mean something but one's type doesn't become another because of a strong subtype. An ENFp with a strong Fi subtype might act like ESFp when there's no dual present but ultimately Ne is still the leading function. Se is a less ideal function to use compared to Ne. We all use our weak functions and some of us develop better use of them but ultimately an ENFp with developed Se would still prefer to use Ne if the situation is welcoming of it. So yes, according to the theory matching subtypes complement each other better, but subtypes don't change one's type. If there's an ENFp who consistently prefers to use Se in situations where his Ne is welcomed then they are ESFp. A dual would encourage you to use your leading function, otherwise they'd be a different type. I believe that strong creative subtypes are more about having an even weaker polr function and needing a dual who will be extra lenient to this and both of you will protect each other even better from each other's polr.

What I'm saying is that even with a strong subtype, an ENFp is still ultimately an ENFp and an ISTp is ultimately ISTp. We all put our guards up in our daily lives, enhancing attributes that aren't really in our true nature, the point is not if we can do that better than others but that we ultimately become more like ourselves in an accepting environment like duality.

This was super reassuring! thanks .

[jewels]

I don't know whether this thread is resurrected, but here's my experience.

Same subtypes are better.

Though duality stays duality, same subtypes just gives an incredible chemistry.

hmm I could see that. But still, duality is still the best of the 16.

[Cyrano]

We all put our guards up in our daily lives, enhancing attributes that aren't really in our true nature, the point is not if we can do that better than others but that we ultimately become more like ourselves in an accepting environment like duality.

How perfectly expressed. I'm adding this to the Hall of Fame.

[Lobo]

I hope this isn't the case, as I'm dating an Si subtype.

Nope, it won't work, that relationship is doomed for failure, sorry.

[jewels]

Nope, it won't work, that relationship is doomed for failure, sorry.

you're kidding...right??

[Lobo]

you're kidding...right??

Of course I am . Just go with the flow, and not focus so much on the socionics "science."

[jewels]

Of course I am . Just go with the flow, and not focus so much on the socionics "science."

ok. Yeah it's going really well, so I think the subtypes aren't nearly as important as the actual type.

[JuJu]

Dual creative subtypes will get on OPTIMALLY with other dual creative subtype (e.g. in this case, ENFp-Fi w. ISTp-Te,) and vice versa.

"Take a tip from one who's tri-i-ied..."

That said, duality is still duality, i.e. great... subtypes don't matter a hell of a lot... They matter most in the 'getting-to-know-you' phase bc--e.g. you may be used to, say, one subtype, and now that you're face-to-face with the other, you don't quite know what to make of him/her, i.e. even though he/she is still you're dual (Cliff's notes: subtypes within the same sociotype can come off very differently.)

Long-term... I couldn't tell you... In my (admittedly limited) dating experience with Ti-ISTjs,--while short-term I found them like a perfect balance between dual and activity relation--lont-term, I found them to talk too much, to want to mother me too much, etc... With Se-LSI--I never felt annoyed.

[somavision]

It doesn't mean you're more F than N, just that you put a bit more emphasis on Fi than Ne-subtype ENFps. It doesn't turn me into an INFj or anything. In my opinion it's a pretty subtle difference, and while I think types are static, I do think people can change from one subtype to the other depending on where their emphasis is during different times of their life. I also don't think subtypes probably make much difference in relationships - I mean you still value and don't value the same information elements. That's my opinion on subtypes anyway.

I suspect that there maybe a great deal of truth in this, especially the bolded part which I havn't heard expressed quite like this before but fits well with my understaning.

It also seems to me that perhaps our sub-types may be influenced by those around us, for example and IEE in a heavily Fi environment would pick up on that energy and would become more Fi in behaviour and outlook, whilst maybe the opposite would be true in an environment, that was more bias towards Ne.

[Jarno]

I suspect that there maybe a great deal of truth in this, especially the bolded part which I havn't heard expressed quite like this before but fits well with my understaning.

It also seems to me that perhaps our sub-types may be influenced by those around us, for example and IEE in a heavily Fi environment would pick up on that energy and would become more Fi in behaviour and outlook, whilst maybe the opposite would be true in an environment, that was more bias towards Ne.

subtype doesn't change. stop with this bs

[somavision]

subtype doesn't change. stop with this bs

Substantiate this statement, or I will continue to speculate.
Is there anything specific within Socionic theory to firmly support that sub-type does not change?

[Slacker]

There isn't even anything specific within Socionic theory to firmly support that subtypes exist.

[somavision]

Exactly.

[ArchonAlarion]

There isn't even anything specific within Socionic theory to firmly support that subtypes exist.

There isn't anything in the ten commandments to firmly support that socionics exists.

[somavision]

There isn't anything in the ten commandments to firmly support that socionics exists.

Fair point. Is this statement incorrect though?

An individuals type according to Socionics (whether or not it is recognised by the worlds principle monotheistic religions) is determined by an individuals capacity to process a certain types of information (the socionic elements).

Model A is a closed logical system built around this and it defines 16 types depending on the relative capacity to process the different types of information.

The idea of subtypes is based on observations of individuals that showed a broad variation in behaviours between individuals of the same type. Subtypes are not taken into account in Model A and could be explained as essentially a subjective description of the extremes of variations of individuals within a type.

Actually I'll clarify that. Is there a clear and distinct separation between subtypes?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

subtype doesn't change. stop with this bs

As far as I can recall, this contradicts work by Gulenko and Filatova, who seem to be under the impression that sub type can change maybe once or twice in the course of a life, but it takes a few years to happen.

[inabox]

I'm an Fi-IEE and my husband is Te-ISTps. the reason I found him to be very attractive over Si-ISTps is the fact he's more talkative, more outgoing . And more brash.

Si-ISTps have this 'softness' that doesn't appeal to me usually in romantic settings. I believe another Fi-IEE user had similar opinions and her long term partner is Si-ESTj .

[Lord Pixel]

How do you even recognize subtypes? Like first you have to find a dual, than a dual with the right subtype, geez man lol.

I did met an LSE man that was very laid back which caught me off guard, but seemed very LSE nonethless, DS Fi, creative Si. So maybe he was an Si LSE?

[meatburger]

I don't really actively think about socionics that much but sometimes i find myself back here. I don't know what subtype i am, i thought for the longest time that i was the FI subtype because i would say that 'kindness' seems like my most defining characteristic which seemed related to Fi but i actually think i fit with the Ne type now. I think depression/anxiety / Ne polr parents muted that.

I have a very long standing friend who is a Te SLI. He is basically as archetypal as you can imagine. Has rebuilt car engines without studying mechanics, incredibly practical in other areas (has a hops farm). Hes quite an angry / firery person and i'm not sure how characteristic that is of Te types. I think there are some pathological slight personality issues there. He will yell at his sister, tell his ENFp wife she has got the wrong BBQ fitting and sending her off again while im subtly suggesting that he and i should go get it for her. He recently had a fight with this really close friends of his, socially he just cannot win. He is loyal to a fault, he is very talkative and interesting and i do enjoy hanging out with him (in moderation). So all in all even though i haven't painted him in the best light I do like him and find him very stimulating. I often cant actually keep up with what hes saying i find myself asking for a bit more clarification because i feel like hes assuming i know wtf hes talking about.

This is a message i got 2 days ago:

Him: "I gotta put extractors on the BA and high flow catalitic converter"
Me: "Ahh yeah ive gotta fit contractors on my cyclotronic amplifier".

I've been friends with two Si-ISTp's and I just found them far easier to hang around for long periods. They are more socially skilled so its just easier. They are obviously really chilled out, talk slower, more subtle smiles etc. The guys i know were/are quite successful with women. I met a guy on a holiday a while back and we got on really well. He just made me want to laugh looking at him (in a good way). He was uncannily similar to Scott Ryan from the Australian series Mr Inbetween. His mannerisms were almost exactly the same, i swear they could have been twins. I don't think this dude kills anyone though. Fantastic show btw.



One of my clients who has depression is an Si-ISTp as well. He says things like 'I really like you coming to visit' and 'have a good day'. Its quite endearing. I also wonder if its different between Friends / In a relationship.

So all in all, i find Te ISTp's more intellectually stimulating / tiring, but i'd have to choose Si-ISTp's as my preference for just the sheer comfort. Not having to think really has it's merits.

Anyway, there is my rant that probably helps no one but whatever lol.

[Adam Strange]

I don't really actively think about socionics that much but sometimes i find myself back here. I don't know what subtype i am, i thought for the longest time that i was the FI subtype because i would say that 'kindness' seems like my most defining characteristic which seemed related to Fi but i actually think i fit with the Ne type now. I think depression/anxiety / Ne polr parents muted that.

I have a very long standing friend who is a Te SLI. He is basically as archetypal as you can imagine. Has rebuilt car engines without studying mechanics, incredibly practical in other areas (has a hops farm). Hes quite an angry / firery person and i'm not sure how characteristic that is of Te types. I think there are some pathological slight personality issues there. He will yell at his sister, tell his ENFp wife she has got the wrong BBQ fitting and sending her off again while im subtly suggesting that he and i should go get it for her. He recently had a fight with this really close friends of his, socially he just cannot win. He is loyal to a fault, he is very talkative and interesting and i do enjoy hanging out with him (in moderation). So all in all even though i haven't painted him in the best light I do like him and find him very stimulating. I often cant actually keep up with what hes saying i find myself asking for a bit more clarification because i feel like hes assuming i know wtf hes talking about.

This is a message i got 2 days ago:

Him: "I gotta put extractors on the BA and high flow catalitic converter"
Me: "Ahh yeah ive gotta fit contractors on my cyclotronic amplifier".

I've been friends with two Si-ISTp's and I just found them far easier to hang around for long periods. They are more socially skilled so its just easier. They are obviously really chilled out, talk slower, more subtle smiles etc. The guys i know were/are quite successful with women. I met a guy on a holiday a while back and we got on really well. He just made me want to laugh looking at him (in a good way). He was uncannily similar to Scott Ryan from the Australian series Mr Inbetween. His mannerisms were almost exactly the same, i swear they could have been twins. I don't think this dude kills anyone though. Fantastic show btw.



One of my clients who has depression is an Si-ISTp as well. He says things like 'I really like you coming to visit' and 'have a good day'. Its quite endearing. I also wonder if its different between Friends / In a relationship.

So all in all, i find Te ISTp's more intellectually stimulating / tiring, but i'd have to choose Si-ISTp's as my preference for just the sheer comfort. Not having to think really has it's merits.

Anyway, there is my rant that probably helps no one but whatever lol.

@meatburger, that's a really good description of the differences that I find between my Dual's two subtypes. Either exciting, or comfortable.

I wonder if this is a universal?

[meatburger]

@meatburger, that's a really good description of the differences that I find between my Dual's two subtypes. Either exciting, or comfortable.

I wonder if this is a universal?

Yeah i'm not sure. When you think about it that's quite true for a lot of subtypes isn't it. My mum is an ESI-Fi and I work with an ESI-Se. Both awesome but definitely quite different energy levels. I like both equally, my mother is the most caring person i've ever met and the girl from work is fiery and vulnerable in a good way. I guess whatever subtype you are could change who you find comfortable though.

I also am friends with both subtypes of EII. The Fi Subtype guy is kinder, more tactful, more well rounded and fun, the Ne type is a bit saracastic & snarky but sharp as a whip to the point where i feel slightly on edge.

[meatburger]

@meatburger You work as a caretaker, right? You post a lot about your relationships with the people in your life. That sounds like boosted Fi + Si. You seem to be a kind and gentle person. You strike me as the Fi-subtype

Hey dude. Yeah i work as a support worker. You're 100% right about my boosted Fi, its absolutely the function i notice myself using most of the time and i have also noticed how on this forum I interpret everything through the lens of my relationships with others. Although there are some reasons to think i'm more Ne leaning too. I actually could be right down the middle. I won't hijack this thread, i've posted enough about myself on here already. Be cool to PM you though!

As a side note: I've seen ILI-Te(strenghtened Te+Se) do the "I gotta put extractors on the BA and high flow catalitic converter" way more often than SLI-Te. You sure the first guy is SLI? SLI-Te are more "nerdy" in general than that.

I don't actually know many ILI-Te's. I believe i met one at uni and he was incredibly interesting dude. This guy is 100% SLI, to the point where if he wasn't i'd just abandon everything i believed about socionics forever. Hes kind of nerdy for sure, he plays a bit of Kerbal space program and just sent me a message about a new graphics card he got. He was quite aggressive when younger, e.g he has knocked out quite a few people in the past. He used to drive a turbocharged car and was very talented at driving fast which saved my life a few times. Was a competitive downhill mountain biker and now does stuff with pit bikes. He used to be an arborist cutting down trees.

I'm sure a lot of those things aren't type related on the whole he seems much more SLI to me. But i'm open to having my mind blown

Here an example, the character is a SLI-Te hacker(sp/sx and mentally ill, but you started it with Mr Inbetween) and the shrink probably EII

Great show

John Krasinski & Emily Blunt would be an example of a IEE-Ne(John) & SLI-Si(Emily) couple. They made the movie "A Quiet Place" together.

Yeah i'm definitely not very much like him at all. Quiet place 2 should be out if it weren't for Rona. Check out a youtuber called Tobuscus. I remember thinking that he could be a strong IEE-Ne and he is way over the top.

[lkdhf qkb]

If you say he's SLI, I believe you, you know him better. Feel free to PM me!
I watched a video of Tobuscus and I think he's ILE-Ne. He has the fake "look at me I'm hilarious" laughter that I associate to Fe HAs. A lot of Ti questioning also in his videos. And trying to become an known Youtuber by doing an oneman show with light sarcasm? So alpha quadra

[myresearch]

John Krasinski & Emily Blunt would be an example of a IEE-Ne(John) & SLI-Si(Emily) couple. They made the movie "A Quiet Place" together.

They are both Ti/Fe valuing

[lkdhf qkb]

They are both Ti/Fe valuing

These shows are pretty much Fe shows and they are rehearsed. Guests have to use Fe and tell funny stories, doesn't mean they value it. So this kind of evidence is meaningless.
I did however watch other videos and they might actually be ESE(Emily) and IEI or LII(John). Which is .... way different than my original typing. Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to improve my typing skills!

[lkdhf qkb]

The way I see it, there are two kinds of IEEs:
- 1. the ones that love to be helped and project a big aura of incompetence(huh huh? Can you help me fill in my tax return report? I'm such a mess & life's distressing & I'm going to cry) so that some Te ego must care for them = IEE-Fi
- 2. the ones that prefer to do things on their own, fuck things up, pretend there is no problem until it blows up, ask some Te ego for help as last resort(Everything's under control, haha there's no problem! Can you lend me some money?) = IEE-Ne