The Role of IQ in duality relationships

[Olimpia]

I wonder what the roles of all duals are in their respective relationships.

[Aylen]

I wonder what the roles of all duals are in their respective relationships.

The role of my dual, if they choose to accept it, is to keep my body alive and me grounded in physical reality through every existential crisis until I am 86 years old. In return I will share the mysteries of the universe with them.

Seriously, I am not sure if "duals" have been better for me or not. Every relationship I have had is different and special to me. I do not think in socionics terms in day to day life. It crosses my mind sometimes but a fleeting thought at most. It is only when I am here that I consider these ideas. It is similar to contemplating the connection I have with people I consider my soulmates and how we seem to just know each other's minds and/or hearts which often conflicts with socionics since technically our relations should not run comfortably. Perhaps I am lucky and somehow manage to keep connecting with those in my quadra. I have assigned a type to very few people I interact with irl and I have been into personality theories for many years. I use this stuff mostly on myself.

[Adam Strange]

I wonder what the roles of all duals are in their respective relationships.

Here is one opinion:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Meged-Ovcharov

also helpful is a description of what the Duals should do for each other:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ity-Work-Meged

[mikemex]

I think intelligence (not IQ) matters a lot. People gravitate to certain activities based on their intelligence level so, for people who are very different from each other, it's going to create a feeling of being out of place. That being said, culture serves a good role in leveling the playing field. If two persons share a rich cultural background, it's unlikely that they will develop such feelings since there will be a lot in common to hold from.

There are many more aspects to personality than just Socionics. For example, @zap pointed me to NPA and MOTIV, which contain elements that have no correlation at all (such as perfectionism, materialism/austerity). I think in the real world this kind of classifications also play a big role in shaping happy relationships.

[uncivilized]

IQ tests don't test for other cognitive traits like creativity and empathy, which are also necessary traits for a functioning society. And in all honesty, most INTJs aren't going to be 6 standard deviations from ESFJs in IQ scores. Also, if intuitives are constantly scoring much higher than sensors, there could be some kind of bias built into the test that favors intuition. The tests are probably written by intuitives, so bias isn't out of the question since it's going to reflect what they see as intelligence.

[marooned]

my dual is my slave who manages my physical needs. gross.

[The Reality Denialist]

I have scored higher than average in administered test. The report said that my visual performance dropped my scores a lot. While I perceived visual information right it was very slow and lacked information (details).

[wacey]

my dual is my slave who manages my physical needs. gross.

Get used to it, Mama.

[marooned]

Get used to it, Mama.

that's even more disgusting. anyway i consider being asked to manage someone else's needs a form of slavery. contrary to type descriptions, i'm not aware of my physical needs much and don't notice those of others at all. the real trend here is social hierarchies in human civilization. slaves and servants are asked to manage these things for others, because they are considered so insignificant that of course they would have nothing more important to do with their time. it's dehumanizing.

[ouronis]

that's even more disgusting. anyway i consider being asked to manage someone else's needs a form of slavery. contrary to type descriptions, i'm not aware of my physical needs much and don't notice those of others at all. the real trend here is social hierarchies in human civilization. slaves and servants are asked to manage these things for others, because they are considered so insignificant that of course they would have nothing more important to do with their time. it's dehumanizing.

Someone needs to do it. It's one of the things necessary to make specialization happen. Please don't tell me you'll have an issue with robot slaves when it's their time.

[wacey]

that's even more disgusting. anyway i consider being asked to manage someone else's needs a form of slavery. contrary to type descriptions, i'm not aware of my physical needs much and don't notice those of others at all. the real trend here is social hierarchies in human civilization. slaves and servants are asked to manage these things for others, because they are considered so insignificant that of course they would have nothing more important to do with their time. it's dehumanizing.

lol. yes, true. but they are so cute why wouldn't you want to just feed it just a little?

[marooned]

Someone needs to do it. It's one of the things necessary to make specialization happen. Please don't tell me you'll have an issue with robot slaves when it's their time.

omg. seriously. if you're hungry, feed yourself. i don't understand why there are people out there who feel so entitled that they think everyone should constantly follow them about tending to the aches in their backs and their need for food. "get it for me out of the fridge. i can't get up. i'm an intuitive."

in any case, the robot thing is great... unless of course they're self-aware... dun. dun. dun.

lol. yes, true. but they are so cute why wouldn't you want to just feed it just a little?

it's one thing when a baby is a baby, and entirely something else when an adult is one.

eta. from my irl observations alpha seems to be the quadra that most promotes this sort of slavery of others and simply seems to feel justified and entitled in doing so. delta is more likely to think they draw upon these individuals' "unique skills sets" as in if we call it a talented skill set (subjecting others to our labors) then it is in fact not slavery. because that makes sense...

[ouronis]

omg. seriously. if you're hungry, feed yourself. i don't understand why there are people out there who feel so entitled that they think everyone should constantly follow them about tending to the aches in their backs and their need for food. "get it for me out of the fridge. i can't get up. i'm an intuitive."

in any case, the robot thing is great... unless of course they're self-aware... dun. dun. dun.

it's one thing when a baby is a baby, and entirely something else when an adult is one.

eta. from my irl observations alpha seems to be the quadra that most promotes this sort of slavery of others and simply seems to feel justified and entitled in doing so. delta is more likely to think they draw upon these individuals' "unique skills sets" as in if we call it a talented skill set (subjecting others to our labors) then it is in fact not slavery. because that makes sense...

Um not exactly what I meant. I don't think anyone like that exists. And also, it's actually beta that is supposed to dislike doing the work themselves.

[wacey]

omg. seriously. if you're hungry, feed yourself. i don't understand why there are people out there who feel so entitled that they think everyone should constantly follow them about tending to the aches in their backs and their need for food. "get it for me out of the fridge. i can't get up. i'm an intuitive."

in any case, the robot thing is great... unless of course they're self-aware... dun. dun. dun.

it's one thing when a baby is a baby, and entirely something else when an adult is one.

eta. from my irl observations alpha seems to be the quadra that most promotes this sort of slavery of others and simply seems to feel justified and entitled in doing so. delta is more likely to think they draw upon these individuals' "unique skills sets" as in if we call it a talented skill set (subjecting others to our labors) then it is in fact not slavery. because that makes sense...

mauhahaha I know.

why not embrace this, why fight it?

[marooned]

why not embrace this, why fight it?

probably because of the strain...

[mu4]

omg. seriously. if you're hungry, feed yourself. i don't understand why there are people out there who feel so entitled that they think everyone should constantly follow them about tending to the aches in their backs and their need for food. "get it for me out of the fridge. i can't get up. i'm an intuitive."

in any case, the robot thing is great... unless of course they're self-aware... dun. dun. dun.

it's one thing when a baby is a baby, and entirely something else when an adult is one.

eta. from my irl observations alpha seems to be the quadra that most promotes this sort of slavery of others and simply seems to feel justified and entitled in doing so. delta is more likely to think they draw upon these individuals' "unique skills sets" as in if we call it a talented skill set (subjecting others to our labors) then it is in fact not slavery. because that makes sense...

I think the big issue is when people take for granted services offer by each other. Ultimately in duality in a mutually beneficial relationship, things aren't taken for granted and reinforce good feelings which keep the connection between individuals. Alpha's are generally very independent individuals who value that in others but in a relationships things can become very different. I don't think people accept the same services from everyone and appreciate it the same way, there is distinct qualities which make such interactions agreeable and disagreeable.

I don't really think Alphas like the concept of "slavery" at all, if anything delta is the quadra that treats people/labor as a commodity which can be bought and sold without restriction. Historical, institutionalized and commercial slavery has been more in the delta neck of the woods.

[marooned]

I think the big issue is when people take for granted services offer by each other.

i guess how i am really thinking about this is in work contexts, where you both don't have the power to defend yourself due to the hierarchy and where if you're in a support position, people start thinking that you're there to tend to their "intimate needs" like their emotions and physical comfort... and it is incredibly horrible. these are like inner things that are people's own business and concerns. and there are a lot of people who just want others to do everything for them, but they don't say this, but you might catch a hint here or there, which adds to my personal stress. i just need a direct order or direct stating of expectations.

anyway i'm slowly working on communication to break all of this down better, to perhaps defend myself with structure. like what do you do when someone complains about their chair being uncomfortable? not knowing or really caring about such things, i just think they should find a new chair and ask that it's ordered rather than thinking someone else who is not them and isn't experiencing their problem would somehow magically know what kind of chair to get them. or the people who can't take out their own recycling so you have to go through a complicated series of emails about their recycling... i mean, really? it's just stressful when i struggle to meet these things myself and am surrounded by others that think they are unique for also struggling with these things, but the difference is they have the power to make your life pretty stressful because of their needs (and sense of entitlement).

in any case a "service" i freely give someone in my personal life, like my time... is free. any "service" i give is just something i naturally do anyway, so it costs me nothing, or very little. i don't expect acknowledgment because i don't think of it as a "service." really the entire concept of "service" disturbs me greatly because these things arise out of our loose class system. i just wouldn't operate under the delusion that anyone in a "service" job *wants* to be providing service. it's more that they are trying not to fall through the cracks of society and haven't found a way to get out of the service industry. i'd rather just openly acknowledge it's slavery (albeit, pretty slavery) than not. i always just feel like i'm wearing another face. i pretend to see it as others do, i even try to wear their hats and slowly find my way to communicate with them or understand society and the job world better, but i think even when i finally succeed i'll still have little illusion about what this really is.

i've also observed people using systems like myers-briggs to justify this. like i'm sure the people i observe cleaning the food court every day are all "sensors" right? they would be since they clean things all day. and if you treat them like all they can do is labor for others, this can impact a person's self-esteem. eventually they may believe that this is all they are, an invisible wiper of tables.

maybe this is all coming up because i'm trying to focus more on the real world and whatever activity i can manage in it, and so i'm colliding more with all the stuff that led me to not want to participate in it in the first place. haha, so i'm just confronting the problem i created for myself... which it wasn't entirely my "fault" but more something that arose out of a lot of causes that all came together in a rather unfortunate way. but i think if i "seize my internal power" (oh, that sounds so cheesy self-help book like) then i can overcome this. so i know it's my problem that i'm projecting... but it isn't *only* in my mind... it does have an outside basis too. not that this makes my attitudes helpful to me... i know my attitudes are not helping me, which is why i've been working on setting them aside often.

[mu4]

i guess how i am really thinking about this is in work contexts, where you both don't have the power to defend yourself due to the hierarchy and where if you're in a support position, people start thinking that you're there to tend to their "intimate needs" like their emotions and physical comfort... and it is incredibly horrible. these are like inner things that are people's own business and concerns. and there are a lot of people who just want others to do everything for them, but they don't say this, but you might catch a hint here or there, which adds to my personal stress. i just need a direct order or direct stating of expectations.

anyway i'm slowly working on communication to break all of this down better, to perhaps defend myself with structure. like what do you do when someone complains about their chair being uncomfortable? not knowing or really caring about such things, i just think they should find a new chair and ask that it's ordered rather than thinking someone else who is not them and isn't experiencing their problem would somehow magically know what kind of chair to get them. or the people who can't take out their own recycling so you have to go through a complicated series of emails about their recycling... i mean, really? it's just stressful when i struggle to meet these things myself and am surrounded by others that think they are unique for also struggling with these things, but the difference is they have the power to make your life pretty stressful because of their needs (and sense of entitlement).

I'm not sure your exact situation so I can't comment. But sometimes people complain and really aren't just expression themselves and may not expect anything. This doesn't mean aid isn't appreciated.

in any case a "service" i freely give someone in my personal life, like my time... is free. any "service" i give is just something i naturally do anyway, so it costs me nothing, or very little. i don't expect acknowledgment because i don't think of it as a "service." really the entire concept of "service" disturbs me greatly because these things arise out of our loose class system. i just wouldn't operate under the delusion that anyone in a "service" job *wants* to be providing service. it's more that they are trying not to fall through the cracks of society and haven't found a way to get out of the service industry. i'd rather just openly acknowledge it's slavery (albeit, pretty slavery) than not. i always just feel like i'm wearing another face. i pretend to see it as others do, i even try to wear their hats and slowly find my way to communicate with them or understand society and the job world better, but i think even when i finally succeed i'll still have little illusion about what this really is..

Treating service as having no or very little value is really a big part of keeping service industry wages down, service most certainly has value but not all service can be bought and sold easily. Service and time are of great value.

i've also observed people using systems like myers-briggs to justify this. like i'm sure the people i observe cleaning the food court every day are all "sensors" right? they would be since they clean things all day. and if you treat them like all they can do is you labor for them, this can impact a person's self-esteem. eventually they may believe that this is all they are, an invisible wiper of tables.

maybe this is all coming up because i'm trying to focus more on the real world and whatever activity i can manage in it, and so i'm colliding more with all the stuff that led me to not want to participate in it in the first place. haha, so i'm just confronting the problem i created for myself... which it wasn't entirely my "fault" but more something that arose out of a lot of causes that all came together in a rather unfortunate way. but i think if i "seize my internal power" (oh, that sounds so cheesy self-help book like) then i can overcome this. so i know it's my problem that i'm projecting... but it isn't *only* in my mind... it does have an outside basis too. not that this makes my attitudes helpful to me... i know my attitudes are not helping me, which is why i've been working on setting them aside often.

Since I'm not sure your exact situation work is a challenge for almost everyone especially if they're not doing something they enjoy. I think it takes a good bit of luck and effort to do something you won't really hate so good luck.

[Adam Strange]

I don't really think Alphas like the concept of "slavery" at all, if anything delta is the quadra that treats people/labor as a commodity which can be bought and sold without restriction. Historical, institutionalized and commercial slavery has been more in the delta neck of the woods.

A good friend of mine is an ESTJ, and he proudly told me that his ancestors were slave-owners. Also, I've seen him overseeing work crews who were working on his properties, and he definitely treated them as commodities.
He also has pretty fixed ideas about what people are like, which is Aristocratic, I think.

Just another data point in the Universe of evidence.

[mu4]

A good friend of mine is an ESTJ, and he proudly told me that his ancestors were slave-owners. Also, I've seen him overseeing work crews who were working on his properties, and he definitely treated them as commodities.

Not suprising at all

[marooned]

quadra roulette: whose fault is it.

[Beautiful sky]

A good friend of mine is an ESTJ, and he proudly told me that his ancestors were slave-owners. Also, I've seen him overseeing work crews who were working on his properties, and he definitely treated them as commodities.
He also has pretty fixed ideas about what people are like, which is Aristocratic, I think.

Just another data point in the Universe of evidence.

My bf is half polish and he says (proudly because it's all about pride) what his people are like. Lol funny arent they? it's so odd that they will do that and not notice other LSE do that about their own race/nationality/ancestry.

[marooned]

also, i got to spend a couple hours away from the front desk today. it made me feel better. it made me feel like maybe i can be myself again. it made me hurt less. i hurt so badly all the time at work. i can't tell anyone there how it feels. but i'm not allowed to be human, or to be myself. and it kills me. but even spending 2/8 hours with myself at work, helps so much. you're killing me when i have to pretend to be what you want.

you can't hide behind tall monitors or stacks of tall books at the front desk. you can't look away. you have to pretend and force yourself to maintain external attention. and even then it's such a struggle because my mind drifts everywhere. i can't react to you in the speedy time you want. i don't even see you're there, and i can't help it. it's not willful. it's just how i am.

[echan]

I could use an IQ boost from FDG the genius acclaimed world wannabe. Mensa tests these days are just ISFj cruelty. So many confident ISFjs like myself have suffered such a riposte hit to the heart -- right where it effing hurts most -- and effing insult themselves that way inadvertently that they have become an almost extinct race. I swear, if there's any reason why this world is dying, it is because geniuses from Korea are pushing us JapJaps to the brink of extinction with their tall hights and good looks and high intelligence They keep hitting my Ne PolR by criticizing my potential intelligence and potential to be human by saying my IQ is effing below 100!!!!! When I work hard to get my very best.

I must affirm I am a go getter who can get anything I want as long as I maneuver stuff left and write and have a goal in mind and want something real bad (courtesy of Ashton who is MIA from being too genius) but these days jobs and IQ tests are so hard to get?_? even effing McDonalds! And you would've thought that was a menial job! But I guess it's because I'm all expressionless Fi and not all touchy feely "aww how are you today ?" Fe like my ESFj friend is (no wonder she is so popular and has stolen all my old friends! or is that my paranoia speaking to me again?)

I myself am a wannabe anything from fashionista to wannabe royalty to wannabe popstar even though my voice ain't that hot. I don't see my voice melting the hardened hearts of children who hate me, at all. They all just ignore me and then hug me because I wear a heart shaped sweater that I designed for myself. They all want a piece of my chocolate shaped valentine's chocolate bowl.

I swear I just need my dual FDG to energize me and share his oh-so-superior genes with oh-so-megalomaniacally inferiority complex me (no thanks to Mensa whose business I kick the dust off with!)

[suedehead]

Yeah, I don't see how a loutish, blue collar Gamma SF male is supposed to enthuse a Gamma NT attorney, at least for a long-term relationship.

[Jeremy8419]

Yeah, I don't see how a loutish, blue collar Gamma SF male is supposed to enthuse a Gamma NT attorney, at least for a long-term relationship.

Actually, that's usually how it works. Look at what you wrote... You say someone who has SF wants someone who doesn't have SF. Why? Because they already have SF. Why would they want more SF? That's too much SF. I already directly told you that I don't consider I.Q. when dating. If anything, I low-ball under average I.Q. females. It's simply not important. The NT would do all the I.Q. crap, and the SF would do all the feely whining.

[suedehead]

Only low IQ women can pull that off. Why would a female victim be drawn to someone who's clearly their 'inferior' (dense, easily manipulated, lower-income, etc.) beyond just a fling. Like wow, the guy can open a pickle jar and slaps your ass every now and then, what a catch. Se without intelligence is banal.

[Jeremy8419]

Well, if they're obsessed with being great, wouldn't someone inferior make them feel even greater? Lol

[suedehead]

No, what you're describing sounds more like an aggressor with NPD. Victims want their match or superior.

[ashlesha]

Typical Gamma NT female: Attorney at Dradleberg, Leibowitz and Associates, Graduated from Harvard, glib, clever, erudite

Lower IQ Gamma SF: Poor, gullible, doesn't understand most of her jokes, mansplains even when he doesn't know what he's talking about, grabs her tit when she's doing chores

Lmao

[Jeremy8419]

Sounds like a gameplan lol