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Thread: The Role of IQ in duality relationships

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I tend to like people not for EQ or IQ but for the level of benevolence they offer to others, high and low EQ and IQ can make people just as intolerable to others. I'm not sure if I would want a world where high EQ is the most important trait, as a society where a socially capable person could game the system instead of providing concrete and tangible benefit to others would be pretty horrible, as would a system that only valued skills and intelligence.

    As far as IQ 2 std deviation above average, it's not that uncommon. 2% of the population is 140-150 million people. The number of people that know socionics is like less than of 1% of the world's population. Which means 1 out of every 50 person you meet will have > 125 IQ while the number of people who knows about socionics will be quite a bit less, when you understand that 2% is actually a rather common thing population wise, and statistically it's highly plausible academic forums would contain individuals of at least IQ 1 std deviation above norm.

    I highly doubt many people here have IQ's lower than 1 std deviation above average, I would say it is quite rare for a member here to have a IQ of 100, it's very apparent when someone shows up with 100 IQ because they are immediately out of place. Of course this individual will generally operate without too many problems in society.

    Given that most members are 1 std deviation above average and a good number of members are 2 to 3 std deviations above norm, I would say a IQ average of 120-125 is a good calculation.
    I agree that there is more to attraction than EQ or IQ. I think if I had to choose between a partner with an above average IQ or above average EQ I'd select the latter. Social competence, empathy, emotional regulation, etc... is just more important to me than intellectual potential. I agree too that a functional society needs a variety of individuals with different strengths. Hence how socionics intertypes work and the world at large. That's why I also like Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences.

    I'm not sure that I am convinced by your logic about the IQ of forum members around here but there's no real definitive way to measure since not everyone has been given a valid IQ measure (online tests are generally not valid at all). Also, I'm not sure if you are only thinking of the most active forum members or everyone who signs up and makes at least one post. Plus, I am an example of one of those who is under 1 std deviation above average, unless my score has changed since I was tested in middle school (which supposedly it should not change much). Anyway, its not a topic of much more interest for me to argue beyond this post.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    I know that; I said I went back and took the test in several ways but that was the only scored it gave so I'm thinking it wasn't set up correctly, it was just an online "practice" or introduction test.
    You can't get a higher result on an IQ test by retaking it you'd have to have the greater intelligence to grasp what you're doing wrong first.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I'm not sure that I am convinced by your logic about the IQ of forum members around here but there's no real definitive way to measure since not everyone has been given a valid IQ measure (online tests are generally not valid at all). Also, I'm not sure if you are only thinking of the most active forum members or everyone who signs up and makes at least one post. Plus, I am an example of one of those who is under 1 std deviation above average, unless my score has changed since I was tested in middle school (which supposedly it should not change much). Anyway, its not a topic of much more interest for me to argue beyond this post.
    It's simple math and a estimation by that math. 100-115 for a few members, 115+ for most members, and 130+ for a few members.

    I don't think there are many members here below 100 while I know there are quite a few members above 140.

    Anyways, having a 130+ IQ is very common in the grand scheme of things. 1 out of 50 is not very uncommon at all.

    From 100-115 is 34% of the population and from 115 to 130 is 13.6% of the population. That's 1 out of 3 and 1 out of 7ish people. Given what I'm saying is that this forum has people who are roughly in the top 10% of the IQ, which is 1 in 10 individuals, it's statistically very plausible given how certain IQ ranges can cluster in different environments.

    Let's just say, I've never spoken to a member here that's below 100 IQ, so at the very least this site is going to be above 100 IQ.

    Anyways, it's probably not possible to know for sure unless everyone gets tested, but I can make a educated guess based on the available information and statistical analysis, which is probably going to be good enough estimate.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echidna1000 View Post
    You can't get a higher result on an IQ test by retaking it you'd have to have the greater intelligence to grasp what you're doing wrong first.
    I bet your IQ is lower than you think it is
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by echidna1000 View Post
    You can't get a higher result on an IQ test by retaking it you'd have to have the greater intelligence to grasp what you're doing wrong first.
    I know that; so I made a grid of what answers produced what results and different combinations did not result in higher or lower IQ scores on this particular test, hence there was something wrong in it's initial set up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by echidna1000 View Post
    You can't get a higher result on an IQ test by retaking it you'd have to have the greater intelligence to grasp what you're doing wrong first.
    It is quite likely that you would, though the practice effect you'd improve at performing the specific mental tasks that appear in IQ tests. It is part of the reason why they are somewhat lacking in ecological validity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    I know that; so I made a grid of what answers produced what results and different combinations did not result in higher or lower IQ scores on this particular test, hence there was something wrong in it's initial set up.
    Try priming yourself before you redo any test. This extract is from a book called predictably irrational by Dan Ariely

    In fact, they are. In a remarkable experiment, Margaret Shin, Todd Pittinsky, and Nalini Ambady asked Asian-American women to take an objective math exam. But first they divided the women into two groups. The women in one group were asked questions related to their gender. For example, they were asked about their opinions and preferences regarding coed dorms, thereby priming their thoughts for gender-related issues. The women in the second group were asked questions related to their race. These questions referred to the languages they knew, the languages they spoke at home, and their family’s history in the United States, thereby priming the women’s thoughts for race-related issues.

    The performance of the two groups differed in a way that matched the stereotypes of both women and Asian-Americans. Those who had been reminded that they were women performed worse than those who had been reminded that they were Asian-American. These results show that even our own behavior can be influenced by our stereotypes, and that activation of stereotypes can depend on our current state of mind and how we view ourselves at the moment.
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    Then again if it's multiple choice, Maritsa's method would have worked... provided she was capable of carrying out her method correctly

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    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    Try priming yourself before you redo any test. This extract is from a book called predictably irrational by Dan Ariely

    In fact, they are. In a remarkable experiment, Margaret Shin, Todd Pittinsky, and Nalini Ambady asked Asian-American women to take an objective math exam. But first they divided the women into two groups. The women in one group were asked questions related to their gender. For example, they were asked about their opinions and preferences regarding coed dorms, thereby priming their thoughts for gender-related issues. The women in the second group were asked questions related to their race. These questions referred to the languages they knew, the languages they spoke at home, and their family’s history in the United States, thereby priming the women’s thoughts for race-related issues.

    The performance of the two groups differed in a way that matched the stereotypes of both women and Asian-Americans. Those who had been reminded that they were women performed worse than those who had been reminded that they were Asian-American. These results show that even our own behavior can be influenced by our stereotypes, and that activation of stereotypes can depend on our current state of mind and how we view ourselves at the moment.
    Ok...a study like that would have to be performed multiple times to produce anything like valid results.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Ok...a study like that would have to be performed multiple times to produce anything like valid results.
    There are many many similar studies studies, the phenemenon has been known about for a long time, I think the most famous study (of the influence of a one directional primer) was by Steele and Aronson (1995). I did find the full papaer before but can only find the abstract for now.
    http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/69/5/797/.

    But yeah there is a whole body of study how activitaing different self schema can influence various test scores. So I'm not saying that Maritsa will suddenly have massively higher score but maybe a few points.

    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    They have actually, it's a well-known phenomenon (well known enough to be taught in my psych course anyway): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat. It's the reason some tests have moved those demographic survey things to the end of the paper.
    This
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    Roger that...I mean it certainly makes sense.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by metaiwan View Post
    Yes I think there is some truth to what you are saying, but then again we are only talking about "intellegence". Logical seperating one thing from another, finding discrepencies and simularities. Things NTs are probably wired for. Then again us NTs aspire and are weak at the things SFs or STs or NFs are good at. And vice versa. Then again there is also wisdom, which is different than intellgence, as well as emotional intellegence etc.
    some good points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker04 View Post
    First, before I start, I must disagree with some of the attempts to placate the sensors when MBTI "experts" ect state that intution does not equal intelligence. Based on my experience with sensors and intuitives, I have found that intutives are generally quicker on the uptake than sensors. There are some exceptions-some of the logical sensing types can be fairly bright, but they often are below the higher superior ranges where many NF and especially NT's (due to the powerful logic/intuitive combination) make up the majority.

    SF's often seem to the least intellectually capable. Of course, there are exceptions, but I doubt, for example, that any belong to MENSA, whereas many INTJ's probably do. Thus, a typical relationship between an INTJ and an ESFJ could be seperated by 1-6 standard devations in IQ points. This has to result in significant problems in these dual relationships. While a smarter ESFJ would be intellectual compatable with a slower witted INTJ, it seems the vast majority of these types would pair up and soon become disappointed in the large discrepency in brain power.

    I this the case in many NT-SF dual relations, as NT's are often the smartest (although NF's are often equally bright), and SF's are often the dimmest (of course, not always though), these problems in intellectual difference are most drastic, because in the other dual relations an intutive feeler is teamed up with a sensory thinker, and thus each partner possesses on of the necessary strong function that results in higher levels of intelligence.

    As a result, many NT's probably marry other NT's because of intellectual compatibilty.

    I do not mean to offend anyone. Any remarks are appreciated.
    The problem with this hypothesis is that it equates IQ tests with intelligence. Intelligence is not adequately measured by IQ tests. IQ tests measure abilities with one type of intelligence: the ability to see patterns. Intelligence defined by a learning psychologist Piaget is the ability to adapt to one's environment in order to survive. IQ tests do not measure the myriad intelligences. Being good at logistics, assessment of people's motivations, and at inspiring others (ST, SF, NF) can in many situations be what keeps one alive or thriving. If IQ was an adequate measure of intelligence as Piaget conceives of intelligence, we would have to have had a very different populace, and we would create a very different world: maybe all would communicate via the internet, machines would disinfect and feed our bodies, and paying taxes would consist of puzzles and problems from the government. clearly we'd be unfit for surprise changes in our environment from lack of human cuddles (oxytocin), exercise, and from trying to get by by knowing everything (Type 5 Enneagram unhealthy obsession).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker04 View Post
    Based on my experience with sensors and intuitives, I have found that intutives are generally quicker on the uptake than sensors.
    Many intuitives believe this, but sometimes we sensors think intuitives are slow in other ways. You're biased to favor those who perceive things similarly to you as being smarter. If someone is perceiving something vastly different than you, it doesn't logically mean they are slower, it's just different.

    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    The problem with this hypothesis is that it equates IQ tests with intelligence. Intelligence is not adequately measured by IQ tests. IQ tests measure abilities with one type of intelligence: the ability to see patterns. Intelligence defined by a learning psychologist Piaget is the ability to adapt to one's environment in order to survive. IQ tests do not measure the myriad intelligences. Being good at logistics, assessment of people's motivations, and at inspiring others (ST, SF, NF) can in many situations be what keeps one alive or thriving. If IQ was an adequate measure of intelligence as Piaget conceives of intelligence, we would have to have had a very different populace, and we would create a very different world: maybe all would communicate via the internet, machines would disinfect and feed our bodies, and paying taxes would consist of puzzles and problems from the government. clearly we'd be unfit for surprise changes in our environment from lack of human cuddles (oxytocin), exercise, and from trying to get by by knowing everything (Type 5 Enneagram unhealthy obsession).
    Exactly.

    The reason MENSA attracts more intuitives, isn't because they are faster, but because intuitives enjoy intellectual discussion more, without seeking practical benefit. For me, the main reason I'd consider trying to join MENSA would be for the hotel discounts, or credit card bonuses, etc. While discussing certain subjects with others would be interesting, I don't care for more opinions, or feel the need to prove my intelligence by touting membership in an elite society. It just sounds like a low self-image to me. Also, I'd imagine intuitives who want to join a discussion club design the test to attract like-minded people, which also biases the results to qualify more intuitives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    For me, the main reason I'd consider trying to join MENSA would be for the hotel discounts, or credit card bonuses, etc.
    haha i loved this. i was like oh hey there are discounts? <3

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    SLE's have enough IQ's to share with all the people
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    The mensa fetish on this forum -- past and present -- is nauseating. Why do you dip shits keep writing it in capital letters? It's not a fucking acronym. Mensa means table.



    IQ tests (and the things that you take online are not IQ tests) are an incredibly limited tool for measuring intelligence.

    If duality requires partners to be of equal intelligence I'm well fucked because have you ever met a exceptionally bright LSE? I think not. Lolz.
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    in the end, the unintelligent have a greater impact on the world than any of these high intelligence orgs, not to mention being way more entertaining while they are at it

    "i just got 92 points on the mensa test"
    "hellz yeah bro!!! *high5* now lets go tie fireworks to our genitals"



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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    If duality requires partners to be of equal intelligence I'm well fucked because have you ever met a exceptionally bright LSE? I think not. Lolz.
    Re-type Maritsa LSE and it is going to fit like a glove.

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    Bump.<br>
    So the whole notion that you can give one score to a an intelligence taking into account how much is really known - no that is probably the meaning behind all that. When you can not model something there are statistical methods to back it up. So insanely high IQers are statistical outliers and most likely show that the model is in some ways imperfect. If we go into world of physics there are phenomenal results in statistical methods. So at least in microscale it can work impressively. IQ as a model is not certainly is not as bad scale as something in the world of social sciences. I think it does not take into account something essential so of course new scales are proposed but it just that scoring is actually very subjective indeed.<br>
    <br>
    I think my IQ profile is very skewed and I'm horrible at spacial tasks. However managing to get high test scores in university level of natural sciences is not a problem (I had more problems in high school).<br>
    <br>
    Just by reading book about Stephen Hawking's life it most certainly resonated with me... I bet his profile just like Feynman's is not very even.<br>
    <br>
    Anyways I don't mind low IQ as long as they come alpha quadrant which probably means that they are capable of evening out my profile.

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    I don't really care for IQ scores. It is just a test which can only cover certain areas of "intelligence". I prefer seeing intelligence more holistically, in the form of taking into account several different forms of intelligence. I only care if someone has a ridiculously high or low IQ. In the former case, I can at least be assured the person has some certain basis of intelligence "right". In the latter case, I might be a bit alarmed.

    I mostly focus on my personal evaluation of someone's overall intelligence, concerning how they measure up to me. In the interaction with them, I'll gauge whether their intelligence is inferior, superior, or on the same level as mine. Inferior intelligence is only acceptable if we can connect on other aspects well, the person is nice, and we are mostly "just" friends.

    I have noticed I have the highest regards for people who are intellectually superior to me in an intelligence modality I am personally unfamiliar/weak at. As of late, I have mostly been interested in people who are high(er) in musical and/or bodily intelligence. I do attribute both modalities to Se, and given I am Se-seeking, it makes sense I would find those aspects attractive. In this manner, I could be interested in/ attracted to someone who may not be "intelligent" in the conventional understanding, as the IQ suggests. Instead, if that other person is intelligent/capable in an area I am weak(er) at, this is greatly appreciated.

    Having said that, there still needs to be some common ground or understanding. If the overall intelligence disparity is too great, communication and emotional connection will prove to be (too) difficult.

    P.S: I used to be sort of stuck up and think my duals are intellectually inferior overall and hence uninteresting. I have to admit, they often tend to seem inferior or just socially underneath my level. But this is more a matter of upbringing and socio-economic status, I imagine. In a different environment, I might meet more duals with a more similar background and intellectual ability to mine. Currently I do not find my duals inferior to me type-wise anymore. I think this belief was a rather uninformed and sketchy one.

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    The IQ test is stupid. Yes, it measures ONE aspect of "intelligence", but there are plenty of things that I, with an IQ in the 130s to 150s depending on the test that I take, suck at. EQ is an interesting concept that I think can relate to the Logical/Ethical divide, and thus an "IQ" test should be renamed to a "LQ" (logical [intelligence] quotient).

    I also think that mental "quickness" isn't necessarily related to IQ. I've been called "slow" or "overly hesitant" in leadership activities before, because my Ij nature is to be cautious and thoughtful, evaluating all possibilities in my head so that I can make the best possible decision. That simply takes time. There are many people who do not appreciate this "slowness", such as League of Legends players.

    I also lack a sort of "physical intelligence" that could be measured maybe in terms of Se: I feel completely helpless and at a loss whenever I have a "real-time action" task to complete.

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    High IQ paired with low common sense =

    I would rather have someone with more common sense around, that shared at least some of my interests, even if their IQ was just hovering around average. It can be boring talking to someone with an equal or higher IQ if there are no shared interests at all. Might as well stare at a wall.

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    Well, you have to agree with HK in that there are a lot of oddballs around here.
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    in my dual relationships with some dumb iq SEE's, there was no problem. Actually they have a high EQ or whatever, so there's bound to be some kind of Q on which you are not the same, which is great cause duals are made to complement eachother right? So an equal IQ would be more of a problem i guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    Anyways, it's probably not possible to know for sure unless everyone gets tested, but I can make a educated guess based on the available information and statistical analysis, which is probably going to be good enough estimate.
    Its simple. The people who write the longest posts are the smartest.
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  28. #148
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
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    *in corny camp counselor voice*

    "Your I Will is more important than your IQ."

  29. #149
    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    I remember reading in more than one place that spouses tend to have similar IQs.

    http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDo...x?paperID=5847

    Makes sense to me. Seems odd and problematic to have an obvious disparity. When I've been with men who were less intelligent than I was, it was okay but not ideal; I tended to get frustrated, especially when they would arrogantly assume authority over me even though I probably had stronger thinking and insight and they even admitted it. And the bigger the difference, the greater the irritation. None of these were dual relationships, though. And I highly value intelligence, maybe more than some people do.

  30. #150
    The sleeping beauty Velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I've decided that intelligence and humor is pretty important if I'm going to be attracted to someone sexually... But recently I've come to realize that emotional intelligence is also extremely important.
    Ideally it would need to go altogether... duality works if you are attracted physically, intellectually, spiritually and emotionally... but then, maybe you don't need him to be your dual in such conditions.

  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    Ideally it would need to go altogether... duality works if you are attracted physically, intellectually, spiritually and emotionally... but then, maybe you don't need him to be your dual in such conditions.
    I'm glad there is also the spiritual part




  32. #152
    Haikus niffer's Avatar
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    There's really not much that will act as substitute for inter-dimensional tantric spirit sex.

  33. #153
    Arete GuavaDrunk's Avatar
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    ^
    Reason is a whore.

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    Higher average IQ of partners = less sexual relationship

  35. #155
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I've decided that intelligence and humor is pretty important if I'm going to be attracted to someone sexually... But recently I've come to realize that emotional intelligence is also extremely important.
    High eq is usually correlated somewhat with high IQ, people are often stupid and mean.

  36. #156
    Haikus niffer's Avatar
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    Displaying my "mental capabilities" in full force has not always been the most socially practical thing to do. And unfortunately, my duals have taken a little while to meet me halfway and not be so quick to dismiss.

  37. #157

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    If my wife would be an ESFj and me an INTj, I would expect her to cook, make me emotional and motivate me. This would be her role in our relationship, not being a conversation partner.

  38. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodor Berza View Post
    If my wife would be an ESFj and me an INTj, I would expect her to cook, make me emotional and motivate me. This would be her role in our relationship, not being a conversation partner.
    ESFJ are good conversation partners for their duals too. You'll talk about what is interesting for you both. Duality is best for friendship, - there are many things which you may do _together_, where may to be some specialization though. Dual lives _with you_, not just near you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    ESFJ are good conversation partners for their duals too. You'll talk about what is interesting for you both. Duality is best for friendship, - there are many things which you may do _together_, where may to be some specialization though. Dual lives _with you_, not just near you.
    Maybe. But the biggest problems of an INTj is cooking for himself, washing the dishes and getting emotional. It's also true that an ESFj would listen to an INTj talk for hours because they are fascinated about that Ti.

    So yes, the original poster might get an auditorium.

  40. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodor Berza View Post
    If my wife would be an ESFj and me an INTj, I would expect her to cook, make me emotional and motivate me. This would be her role in our relationship, not being a conversation partner.
    But she shouldn't be limited to those things. ESEs make good conversation partners because they give the impression of being sincerely interested in everyone, which is pretty profound to LIIs. We like that.

    Suggesting that a woman in a relationship should be confined to meet the domestic needs of her partner is not thinking for this century.

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