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Thread: Gamma Music

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    https://www.guitarplayer.com/players...tly-weeps-solo

    I was thinking about why Prince’s guitar solo during George Harrison’s RRHOF induction is so emotionally affecting. Of course he’s unbelievably incredible…a unique and unprecedented talent without a doubt. But even more than that, it’s his humility in stepping back and allowing someone who isn’t even a Hall of Famer to take the spotlight and have the main solo. Also…it may APPEAR that I am valuing Fe at the “group performance” of George Harrison‘s classic. But the truth is that the only reason I value it so deeply is because of Tom Petty’s personal support of Prince. Without Petty, it could’ve otherwise been a lacklustre dial-it-in performance by a bunch of complacent superstars. It is only because Tom Petty set all of the “petty” ego issues aside, and was secure enough as an artist to recognize that the music should come first, that he was then able to single-handedly provide the emotional support that allowed Prince to let his guard down and feel like he was actually welcome to be part of the performance (apparently, everyone else had given Prince the cold shoulder). Dhani Harrison (George’s son) also provides emotional support to Prince during the performance, although apparently afterwards, he commented that Prince should’ve toned it down. I understand this conflicted attitude of Dahni though – when it comes to the death of a parent, you ultimately end up having all kinds of defensive judgements and protectiveness issues.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that Tom Petty sent the blatantly obvious social cues that someone like me requires in order to feel welcome/included. If I had been going out on the town with that bunch of people, I would have stuck by Tom because he possessed the secure “feeling” ethics to not play any mental games with people’s emotions. I’m not sure which socionics type Prince is, but I’m guessing that he is Fi valuing. He is stiff and an obvious outsider during 3/4 of the performance. It is only after Tom Petty is emotionally brave enough to step forward and actually extend some emotional support, that Prince then becomes artistically invested. A lot of the joy I receive from watching Prince’s performance is from watching his authentic, lost in the moment facial expressions, as well as his emotional expression in the way that he opens up for and plays exclusively to Tom. In this way, Tom Petty is just as responsible for all of the praise that this epic performance consistently garners.

    ______________________________________________
    With respect to Alanis Morissette’s debut television performance of You Oughtta Know on David Letterman, here is a quote from an audience member csilver522 who was present:
    I was in the audience for this. We had no idea who Alanis Morissette was (I don’t think anyone did at this point), and I remember being terrified by the intensity on stage. It was loud, angry, and passionate as can be, and watching this now, I realize I witnessed an epic musical performance. This is awesome, and I wish I had been able to appreciate it at the time, but I’m not sure Alanis wanted it that way. I think she wanted to scare us. She did.”

    https://youtu.be/TS3oLs1JF50
    A performance of pure passion and emotion by Alanis as well as the band. For some reason—likely because I lack my own Se & Fi—I am somewhat soothed and in total admiration of people who can display this type of emotion and angst on my behalf. All while I lamely proclaim from a safe and emotionally insulated perch “ya that’s fucking right!” If anyone is wondering what Se HA is seeking – look no further, this is fucking it. Also, since Janice, I don’t think there’s been any hard rock band/accompaniment backing up such an emotional female singer. Good on that band, because they all fucking killed it (&RIP Taylor). Want to mention that Dave Navarro played guitar and Flea played bass on the studio version of this song.
    Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-14-2022 at 05:17 AM.

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    Cool <33


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    Punch!


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    SEE anthem
    Maisy
    ILI-Ni (INTp)
    I think in pictures, moving pictures...

    Recommended Music - ILI-Ni



    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by crM View Post
    Just remembered I'm lazy after a listen

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  9. #649
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  10. #650
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  11. #651
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    As far as Rock and a few of its subgenres

    Gamma Intratim: Soundgarden, and Alice In Chains

    Gamma Extratim: AC/DC, Cream

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    @ENJoymENT

    Prince's note choice is pretty interesting. He starts off in the blues scale but then borrows a few notes from the Dorian and Aolean scales, which are both used in Spanish guitar

    Another thing he incorporates is his phrasing. Phrasing is when you build "sentences" with notes from a guitar solo. First section ( first 14 secs of the solo) he follows the lyrics that you'd sing In the song, while throwing in enough variation to where you go "that's different". Similar to an improv singer with their voice.

    Next 14 seconds(thats where he shifts to the fancier scales) he varies bit ends that bit with a piece of the singer's melody again to remind you what song this is.

    Instead of running through a stream of notes he breaks and makes little passages with a clear distinction between them a la Clapton or Hendrix.Here is this one...then the next...and the next each one of them rising in octave and pitch, along with speed and dexterity, creating a sense of progression and rising intensity; and if you pay attention you'll notice all his "sentences" are approximately the same length in time. Nice and neat following the song with pauses that allow it to breathe before switching gears.

    And every time he ends one passage he goes back to how Harrison would sing the lyrics to the main line but again with little tiny differences.

    The rest is in details like his tone, both his guitar settings and the changes in pressure he applies to the strings with his pick. His vibrato (same way a singer shakes the note at the end of a phrase the guitarist shakes the note with the finger) changes in aggressiveness as the solo goes by


    Music is subjective but there are hard, technical measures that can make something sound not just great, but emotive and dramatic. Gives it a body and lungs. Gives it life and the ability to breathe.
    Last edited by CptLandhawk; 08-23-2022 at 06:54 PM.

  13. #653
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    Dwaves and Humans vs. X always felt like Gammas and Deltas vs all others IMO...

    Probably why they tend to get along while the "mountainfolk" take quite an issue with the knife-eared arseholes...

  14. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptLandhawk;[URL="tel:[URL="tel:[URL="tel:[URL="tel:[URL="tel:1528523"
    1528523[/URL]"]1528523[/URL]"]1528523[/URL]"]1528523[/URL]"]1528523[/URL]]@ENJoymENT

    Prince's note choice is pretty interesting. He starts off in the blues scale but then borrows a few notes from the Dorian and Aolean scales, which are both used in Spanish guitar

    Another thing he incorporates is his phrasing. Phrasing is when you build "sentences" with notes from a guitar solo. First section ( first 14 secs of the solo) he follows the lyrics that you'd sing In the song, while throwing in enough variation to where you go "that's different". Similar to an improv singer with their voice.

    Next 14 seconds(thats where he shifts to the fancier scales) he varies bit ends that bit with a piece of the singer's melody again to remind you what song this is.

    Instead of running through a stream of notes he breaks and makes little passages with a clear distinction between them a la Clapton or Hendrix.Here is this one...then the next...and the next each one of them rising in octave and pitch, along with speed and dexterity, creating a sense of progression and rising intensity; and if you pay attention you'll notice all his "sentences" are approximately the same length in time. Nice and neat following the song with pauses that allow it to breathe before switching gears.

    And every time he ends one passage he goes back to how Harrison would sing the lyrics to the main line but again with little tiny differences.

    The rest is in details like his tone, both his guitar settings and the changes in pressure he applies to the strings with his pick. His vibrato (same way a singer shakes the note at the end of a phrase the guitarist shakes the note with the finger) changes in aggressiveness as the solo goes by


    Music is subjective but there are hard, technical measures that can make something sound not just great, but emotive and dramatic. Gives it a body and lungs. Gives it life and the ability to breathe.
    Yes… he/you had me at “that’s different” than the actual paint-by-numbers studio version. Yet all without straying too far from the living heart of the track by selfishly reaching too often into his own personal arsenal/bag of tricks just to display them for their own sake. Everything he opts to do is creative, yet all while simultaneously remaining true to the spirit of this George Harrison classic. It’s not his display of technique as a skilled guitarist that is special, it’s his ability to seamlessly fit his talent into the existing framework of the song in order to both creatively enhance, yet fully honour it.

    And yes—equal and perfect amounts of melody, breathing space, technique, and ultimately heavy rock ‘n’ roll abandon/freedom. The only guitarist in my opinion who can mournfully bend notes in such a manner to slay me emotionally, is Clapton…well okay, also Duane Allman’s slide guitar in the despairing coda of Layla. Actually controversial within the musicians’ community…in that many claim he’s disconcertingly out of tune in spots. But to me, I truly believe that those bends have to be an intentional artistic choice—because they are my absolute favourite parts of this song. They paint an atmospheric melancholia…from 3:50-5:40 opens me up both physically & emotionally. It forces my breath to finally exhale and my shoulders to drop in surrender. And about 70% of the time when I hear it, this section brings genuine tears to my eyes in gratitude of actually acknowledging that I have feelings and emotions. Palms up in surrender…open…being showered in despair, and yet somehow loving nonetheless. And it’s not my fault—its cause is the experience of being caressed by the anguish inherent in the guitar’s notes. Layla is in fact my most favourite romantic song.

    Second place is Queen’s Somebody to Love live at Milton Keynes—especially the improvised piano intro—when F.M. shrugs/raises his left palm up in despair. Queen was actually my first live concert in Toronto during “The Game” tour. Can’t tell you how much respect I have for the fact that these four musicians each bring it—covering one another’s backs—doing ALL of the instruments, vocals—no autotune, no back up singers etc. And most impressively—no cell phones in the audience, everyone present and contributing emotionally in the moment. It’s pure passion. https://youtu.be/v8L3TCXsyX4

    Third has to be Prince’s solo. I find it very interesting that you describe Prince’s musical passages as sentences—“nice and neat following the song with pauses that allow it to breathe before switching gears”. This description really expounds the intentional maintaining of the underlying structure in order to avoid alienating the unsophisticated listener. All the while thoughtfully and intermittently overlaying creative embellishments which elevate the experience to a creation… as opposed to merely an imitation.

    It must be immensely emotionally invigorating and soulfully satisfying to be able to create and express at that level.
    Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-30-2022 at 09:10 AM.

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  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averroes;[URL="tel:1529185"
    1529185[/URL]]
    I LOVE this song, my favourite since Era Vulgaris’ Suture Up Your Future & 3’s &7’s. It’s the best song if you’re pissed at somebody: “I sat by the ocean, and drank a potion baby, to erase you”. I like the QOTSA’s lyrics that blatantly call out our contrived exteriors. “The truth hurts so bad wouldn’t you say…so why tell it? If ignorance is bliss than I’m in…heaven now”. Apparently according to Homme, he wrote most of the lyrics for …Like Clockwork while he was depressed and laid up in the hospital. Thus the lyrics are deliciously introspective and cut right to the authentic emotion:

    'Do you know who you really are? Are you sure it's really you'?Lies are a funny thing
    They slip through your fingertips because they never happened to you
    Time wounds all the heals as we fade out of view

    Imagine I'd be your one and only
    Instead I'm the lonely one
    You, me, and a lie.
    Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-30-2022 at 01:21 AM.

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    https://youtu.be/xpkRtzNUQtE

    Them Crooked Vultures. From 4:20 onwards, Dave Grohl totally captures the freedom and joy inherently derived from playing the drums full-on and without restraint— a la Keith Moon.

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    Singer is SEE.




    ILI.




    LIE



    ESI.

    Themes: capitalism, money, imagination, over-arching tragedy, sacrifice to a loved one, power, truth, mysticism, moralist judging of wrongdoings, and sympathy towards the unfortunate.
    Last edited by lavos; 08-29-2022 at 04:43 PM.

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    QOTSA Misfit Love: https://youtu.be/CULuecEvxbs big, bold, sensual.

    Do me first, do your worst
    Gimme what I want some of
    One track mind, no time to waste
    Sidewalk feel me strut so good
    (Gutter don’t forget this face!)


    QOTSA I’m Designer: https://youtu.be/SRdKseK1JXU everyone needs a little whack. Frank cynicism.

    The thing that's real for us is fortune and fame
    All the rest seems like work
    It's just like diamonds—in shit!

    I'm high class, I'm a whore…actually both
    Basically, I'm a pro
    We've all got our own style of baggage—why hump it yourself?

    You've made me an offer that I can refuse
    'Cause either way I get screwed
    Counter proposal: I go home and jerk off, Ugh!

    It's truly a lie
    I’m counterfeit myself…
    ….
    You're insulted you can't be bought or sold (translation: offer too low)
    You don't know what you're worth—it isn’t much
    My piano's for sale


    How many times must I sell myself
    before my pieces are gone?
    I'm one of a kind—I'm designer!

    Never again will I repeat myself
    Enough is never enough…
    NEVER AGAIN will I repeat myself!!



    Not sure of Homme’s sociotype, but I love his fearless lyrics. He seems Se valuing…perhaps Se seeking, which is why I relate. The lyrics are bold and in your face…yet at the same time self deprecating, so it’s humorous as opposed to obnoxious.
    Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-30-2022 at 02:02 AM.

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  22. #662
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    SEE


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    SEE


    Last edited by Averroes; 09-24-2022 at 04:08 AM.

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    I've liked Opeth and Infected Mushroom.

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    Can't tell the quadra of Opeth, but Infected Mushroom doesn't seem gamma to me. Too much Ne and some songs Fe.

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    I generally like video game music, especially songs that were in older video games. Some of my favorite tracks are in the older LoZ games. Otherwise, I like music from a variety of genres. Metal, especially with good note progression, sometimes appeals to me more than other genres.

    I think that I'm gamma because I seemed to show Ni ego and Ti demonstrative characteristics. I wrote an event progression that was humorous that seemed to be based on common sense, and then wrote an event progression that was serious that seemed to be based on my movie-like imagination. You can see my post about this in the EII Imaginations thread.

    I'll post a few songs here from LoZ:TP that I like.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv5UAdAa9v4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxvvq_QdnfA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUUSIs8Qavc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ_KQOAGzBk
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-13-2022 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Added a song.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Can't tell the quadra of Opeth, but Infected Mushroom doesn't seem gamma to me. Too much Ne and some songs Fe.
    I don't pay attention to lyrics. I'm not sure if that's relevant.

    Edit: Here's a song that I like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFsoLYZEYvg

    I like the musical quality of it.
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-13-2022 at 03:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    I generally like video game music, especially songs that were in older video games. Some of my favorite tracks are in the older LoZ games. Otherwise, I like music from a variety of genres. Metal, especially with good note progression, sometimes appeals to me more than other genres.
    My brother from another mother. Metal is, well, metal .

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    I don't pay attention to lyrics. I'm not sure if that's relevant.
    I wonder what you think of this piece:



    Said band is raw unrestrained Metal as a Gamma would compose it IMO. They are, alongside the likes of Helloween and Stryper, the true pioneers of Power Metal (my most favorite genre of metal).

    If you wonder about that last band well:



    I agree with Razor. There is nothing more metal than just nutting up and just telling everyone else to simply go fuck themselves. Hell, I can already feel my own "end of runtime" coming. I just can't and won't bow down to the woke brigade no matter how much money they offer me. Fuck Mammon!

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    Too much video game music discussion for a discussion of metal, and there are discussions of metal in all the quadras. Socionics is bad for music discussions, or at least, socionics forums are bad for music discussions.

    Especially when people are unironically comparing Britney Spears and NAV to Beethoven and King Crimson.



    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Tchaikovsky seems pretty Fe to me.

    For possible Gamma classical composers, try:

    Borodin
    Shostakovitch
    Mendelssohn
    Saint-Saens
    Liszt
    Schubert

    You guess the types.
    Though I've never carefully went through and tried to type all the classical composers, Schubert is beta or alpha being basically "the 1800s Paul McCartney" as I've heard him called before, and Liszt is one of the most beta people in existence along with Wagner and Strauss.

    Then, I can't even figure out what gamma would refer to other than soulless corporate schlock. Mendelssohn is perfectly likely to be gamma, as are most of those other people. Mendelssohn was the guy who made Bach popular after many centuries of Bach being a nobody, and tried to lock Wagner out of composing because he didn't like Wagner's music which caused Wagner to start being sort of mildly Antisemitic despite the fact he didn't think all Jews were like that. If we're just going to say bad composers are gamma that doesn't help the "gammas have bad music and they're all corporate drones" image. (Though I don't think self-typed gammas here are corporate drones with bad taste in music.) But, people tend to really hate gamma even more than beta because of the corporate drone image, and music in general seeming like an Fe/Ni or Fe/Si affair doesn't help that.



    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    My brother from another mother. Metal is, well, metal .



    I wonder what you think of this piece:



    Said band is raw unrestrained Metal as a Gamma would compose it IMO. They are, alongside the likes of Helloween and Stryper, the true pioneers of Power Metal (my most favorite genre of metal).

    If you wonder about that last band well:



    I agree with Razor. There is nothing more metal than just nutting up and just telling everyone else to simply go fuck themselves. Hell, I can already feel my own "end of runtime" coming. I just can't and won't bow down to the woke brigade no matter how much money they offer me. Fuck Mammon!
    Hand of Doom definitely wasn't bad, but somehow it wasn't my type of music. I think it has too many majors in its note progression. Kind of around the time it says thunder in the lyrics, it seems to embody thunder to some extent. Pretty cool.

    I should probably say that I sometimes pay attention to or hear lyrics. It happens rarely/occasionally.

    I also agree that telling people to fuck themselves is pretty metal.

  36. #676
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  37. #677
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    I recommend some songs of an ILI artist called Steven Wilson:

    [Piano Lessons - Porcupine Tree]


    It talks about the struggle of Steven for making his dreams happen facing the limits that his mentor and the music industry are trying to set on him. His potential is understimated and his integrity challenged. Is the Complex of Tied Hands condensed in a song. He has an album called "Stupid Dream", you can imagine the core topic of the work.

    "You'd better give up hoping. You're better off in bed", "Credit me with some intelligence...".

    [Arriving Somewhere but Not Here - Porcupine Tree]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbWhpfXisZw
    In some parts of the lyrics it is described the pain of seeing how your dreams are shattered while the only thing you can do is to look and wait for your death. I don't understand the story of the album, I only know it is about ghosts.

    What ILIs think when the plane is falling: "All my designs simplified. And all of my plans compromised. All of my dreams sacrificed".

    [Time Flies - Porcupine Tree]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkJB...=PorcupineTree
    An invitation to take every opportunity life gives you and a regret for all those who were lost and took you to a different course.

    "She said: "Luck is all you make it, you just reach and take it, now let's dance a while".

    [Sleep of No Dreaming - Porcupine Tree]


    It could be about the young Steven's fear of living in his dream thinking his sacrifice doesn't compensate satisfaction he feels for it. Or could be about living a life devoid of dreams, being a conformist which is almost the same as being dead. Or I don't understand metaphors.

    Haha, how convenient! Literally a woman with her hands tied.

    [Hatesong - Porcupine Tree]


    Some Gamma sincere despise.

    [Permanating - Steven Wilson]


    A more mature Steven Wilson, with a more developed Se.

    Take your time, don't make it a chore. One song of this list per day is fine.
    Last edited by HeInin; 11-17-2022 at 08:28 PM.

  38. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    I don't pay attention to lyrics. I'm not sure if that's relevant.

    Edit: Here's a song that I like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFsoLYZEYvg

    I like the musical quality of it.
    Ok, there are some Ni/Se songs in the setlist of Infected Mushroom, but there are songs that seems Ne valueing to me, like Never Mind.


  39. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Ok, there are some Ni/Se songs in the setlist of Infected Mushroom, but there are songs that seems Ne valueing to me, like Never Mind.

    I think I remember liking this song.

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