Approaching and getting acquainted with an ESFp

[BLauritson]

I feel really uncertain about posting this for some reason, but this is an issue that's been playing on my mind for some time now. Basically I have a female ESFp friend who I'm interested in romantically, although I'm not sure what the best way to approach her is. We've only known eachother for a short time (a couple of months or so) although we've quickly become quite good friends with eachother. It's just...I dunno.. can Socionics even help in this regard or is it more of an individual thing? If it is the former, how would an ESFp be theoretically likely to react in this situation? What I mean is.. well, assuming a worst case scenario, would they be willing to forget about it and continue as though nothing happened? Would they be "scared off" so to speak? Would I be better off just not pursuing it at all?

[mikemex]

Well, ESFp are very accepting, specially of those who are friendly to them.

However, I will just give you a short advice: don't get mad at it if she doesn't see you the same way. INTp are prone to shitty situations.

It's not going to work just because of the duality. Love is a mutual thing; difficult to attain, you know.

[Joy]

Approaching an ESFp

lmao

She's the extrovert AND the Se type... entice her into initiating the relationship.

[olduser]

They expect criticism. Ask her if she's ever considered, in the deep depths of her mind, in the farthest reaches of her soul, in the the long gone eras of thought that have past, ever considered a world without cell phones and text messaging.

hooray!

[FDG]

They expect criticism. Ask her if she's ever considered, in the deep depths of her mind, in the farthest reaches of her soul, in the the long gone eras of thought that have past, ever considered a world without cell phones and text messaging.

hooray!

rotfl

[astralsilky]

You hardly think and write like an INTp. My advice is to try for an ENFj instead.

[...]

[stevENTj]

You hardly think and write like an INTp. My advice is to try for an ENFj instead.

My advice is to not listen to rubbish like this, to not worry too much in general about your approach, and to just ask her out since you both seem to get along great. Try for a different type and not bother when two people have already hit it off well? WTF? If it was meant to be and your personalities match well then you won't have to worry about how to approach. Just be yourself and do it, and take things from there.

BTW, he sounds pretty INTp to me. If I was single I could very easily see myself making the same exact post. The OP's post is heavily loaded with and obviously NOT . Fe types just have a knack for how to handle people and relationsips and would probably never need to ask a question like this. INTp's with PoLR Fe are retards in this regards, and hence the need to ask a question like this.

[KSpin]

Yes. Feelings are not obvious, and what to do about other people's feelings is even less clear.

[Jarno]

You hardly think and write like an INTp. My advice is to try for an ENFj instead.

is your opinion based solely on the post of him in this topic?

then your opinion has little value.

first because it's nearly impossible to type anyone based on a couple of written lines.
secondly if you insist on typing someone based on that single post, then i'm against your statement, i believe it could easely have been written by an INTP.

[Jarno]

and to answer this topic:

In my experience nearly all ESFP complained about boys being pushy, uptight, want sex, have wrong motives etc.

So if you are NOT doing those things, you're already a step further then most other persons.

This would also help:

- be yourself.
- be casual.
- be polite, especially use the words "thank you" once.

and ofcourse ask her out on a date

good luck, i hope you keep us informed :wink:

[BLauritson]

Approaching an ESFp

lmao

She's the extrovert AND the Se type... entice her into initiating the relationship.

How, exactly? I've never successfully asked anyone out before, the one time I did bring myself to ask someone out (an ENFp I used to be majorly attracted to a couple of years ago), she mistook it as a platonic thing rather than a date.

You hardly think and write like an INTp. My advice is to try for an ENFj instead.

lol.. may I ask why?

If you go with an ESFp, that would probably be a pretty lazy relationship for you. Sure, the ESFp may seem endearing because "everything seems to come to life" - you might even be inclined to put one on a pedestal, as they can embody your superego functions in a magical sort of way that attracts you. And so it might even be a bit flattering to your own ego to even associate with one ... but you don't seem like an INTp. Not that I expect you to believe any of this.

My best friend is an ESFp (not the same one) and I'd say mutual trust and security (psychologically speaking, as opposed to insecurity) embodies our friendship more than social gratification or self-flattery. But alas, I'm straying from the topic.

Well, all that aside, I'm still highly insecure about whether or not I've got a chance to be honest.. probably due to past experience (I've only had one girlfriend previously, an INFj gone psychotic, and that only lasted three months. Apart from that, everyone I've ever been interested in has rejected me, verbally or otherwise), but I'm having a really hard time imagining anything working out. I can't tell though whether it's my intuition telling me not to bother or whether I am just being pessimistic about it all. I know she socialises a lot, and I always fear the worst in that regard (I'm not at all possessive if I'm actually with someone, but if I'm interested in them I constantly worry that they'll get with someone else instead). I dunno.. every imaginable possibility seems just as likely when you don't have experience to guide you.

Oh well, thanks for the responses thus far anyway, I'll keep you all updated.

[stevENTj]

Most of your problems seems to be self-confidence and image. Work on that and you should have more success.

[stevENTj]

and to answer this topic:

In my experience nearly all ESFP complained about boys being pushy, uptight, want sex, have wrong motives etc.

Now that's fascinating. The ONE ESFp I've known well enough to comment on also seemed jaded in this respect, and as a result was very relationship shy. She constantly tried to find things "wrong" with me to justify her loneliness (even though I know she was very attracted to me, but *ahem* married) She seemed just a little "off" if you catch my drift so I wasn't sure if it was personality related, but hearing something similar from another with more experience with ESFp's than I now makes me wonder....

Approaching an ESFp

lmao

She's the extrovert AND the Se type... entice her into initiating the relationship.

Unfortunately due to the above, I don't think it's that simple. ESFp's are definitely not at all like ESTp's if that's what you were thinking. Neither my wife nor I have quite figured out her ESFp friend (the one I refer to above) other than that she was just very jaded or twisted somehow by something or someone. Said none of her relationships ever lasted more than a year...

I think this can happen regardless of type though. With enough bad experiences twisting you around, even an ideal attractive and available dual partner might not be good enough. I think Sergei Ganin writes about this in his duality description, and the importance of finding your ideal match early before either has a chance to get too twisted up in life.

This isn't good news for the OP unfortunately, but I think they have other more important things they should be addressing anyways.

[BLauritson]

Most of your problems seems to be self-confidence and image. Work on that and you should have more success.

I know, but it's the string of bad experiences I've had that's made me like this. My confidence tends to be specific, I can be confident in one thing (my intuition for example) but lack confidence in another (forming relationships for example). So in that regard, I don't really know how to improve my self-confidence other than to actually have some positive experience to give me something to be optimistic about.

EDIT: Now that I come to think of it, I seem to be feeling a lot better about the situation now that I've discussed it. I think because it was running rampant in my mind and I hadn't really spoken to anyone properly about it, coupled with some temporary depression which might have been related to this, although I'm not really sure, is why I came off so negatively in the first post. I'm still aware that it might not work, but I just feel more comfortable about the situation now. Oh well, see how things go.

[Jarno]

Maybe it helps to know that ESFP's are said to be the most easy approachable of all types.

They are highly aware of other people's motives. This knowledge can benefit you. If you are sincere (which is natural behaviour for an INTP) than you've got the right motive.

One thing that I remember that an ESFP girl told me once, they like it when someone asks (a lot) questions about her. She hated it when someone kept talking about himself. (Well who doesn't hate that...)

Just ask her out, they like to go anywhere, to the movies etc,
everything you suggest is pretty well perfect, except for the library, oke :wink:

[astralsilky]

You hardly think and write like an INTp. My advice is to try for an ENFj instead.

lol.. may I ask why?

Based on linguistic style and cognitive content, you sound just like multiple ISTjs I've known well who test ISTj. [...] It's an intuitive thing. And when I compare/contrast your writing with INTjs and INTps I've known, yours is of a very different nature.

My best friend is an ESFp (not the same one) and I'd say mutual trust and security (psychologically speaking, as opposed to insecurity) embodies our friendship more than social gratification or self-flattery. But alas, I'm straying from the topic.

That very well could be, that is, the mutual trust and sense of security - but need not signify duality. A Supervisor can also experience a sense of security being with their supervisee, because in no way can the Supervisee threaten the Supervisor with their own skills. ("Threaten" sounds weird, but I think you get my gist).

Well, all that aside, I'm still highly insecure about whether or not I've got a chance to be honest ...

Typology aside, how about focusing on building the friendship more? Maybe the opportunity for romance will eventually present itself and THEN you can jump on the chance. All good relationships should have a friendship component anyway. Just enjoy her company, and take things one step at a time. If she gets blatantly flirtatious with you, then you can take the risk that it's a signal to go for it. Blatantly flirtatious - e.g., EXTRA smiley around you more than others, giving you special focused attention compared to others, seeming to be EXTRA stimulated by seeing and talking with you compared to others. But if she is just AS kind to you as she is everyone else, don't push it.

[Khamelion]

Approaching an ESFp

lmao

She's the extrovert AND the Se type... entice her into initiating the relationship.

\

LOL this is what I was about to post, good thing I read the thread first...

[Joy]

Approaching an ESFp

lmao

She's the extrovert AND the Se type... entice her into initiating the relationship.

How, exactly? I've never successfully asked anyone out before, the one time I did bring myself to ask someone out (an ENFp I used to be majorly attracted to a couple of years ago), she mistook it as a platonic thing rather than a date.

http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...pic.php?t=9291

http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...t=9983&start=0

http://the16types.info/groups.php?groupid=19 and http://the16types.info/groups.php?groupid=18

[olduser]

By the way, y'all, not all ESFps are hooked on cell phones and text messaging. Some are quite the opposite. And not all ESFps are eager to take the initiative in beginning relationships if it backfired too much in the past. One can decide to go against their instincts and "adapt" in order to optimize their results - especially women.

I agree. Not all. But those who aren't are in a minority based on the fact that anybody who isn't a text messaging cell phone junkie is in a minority. ta da!

[Creepy-bg]

lol I've never even owned a cell phone... (and don't want one either )

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

Give up, go get drunk at a disco, and perhaps you could make out with a few other ESFp's hanging out at couch section of the club. Look for an ISFj and maybe you can be involved in a semi-happy relationship. Duality is not available for you. The best you may be able to do is to be her friend for a few months until she finds someone who doesn't disappoint her so much because she believes the friendship isn't moving anywhere. You might have better luck with an ESFj.


If you want to pursue this relationship, you can try to send messages yourself and let her take control of things, but ultimately, if you are the party primarily interested in developing the relationship into deeper territory, you need to ask or take the initiative somewhere along the line. I honestly don't know enough about ESFp's and relationships though- those machine translations are harder to read then a Physics textbook written by an INTj. :wink:

[Jarno]

Give up, go get drunk at a disco, and perhaps you could make out with a few other ESFp's hanging out at couch section of the club. Look for an ISFj and maybe you can be involved in a semi-happy relationship. Duality is not available for you. The best you may be able to do is to be her friend for a few months until she finds someone who doesn't disappoint her so much because she believes the friendship isn't moving anywhere. You might have better luck with an ESFj.


If you want to pursue this relationship, you can try to send messages yourself and let her take control of things, but ultimately, if you are the party primarily interested in developing the relationship into deeper territory, you need to ask or take the initiative somewhere along the line. I honestly don't know enough about ESFp's and relationships though- those machine translations are harder to read then a Physics textbook written by an INTj. :wink:

Oke, it's clear what you want him to do, but it's not clear WHY he should give up.

On contrary, I would say he's closer to a relationship than he thinks, and should certainly have a big chance.

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

Oke, it's clear what you want him to do, but it's not clear WHY he should give up.

On contrary, I would say he's closer to a relationship than he thinks, and should certainly have a big chance.

I guess the format of my first paragraph failed as an indication that it was joke. The lack of reasoning was supposed to show that I was joking. I guess I need to include a winkey smiley next time.


You could try discussing about her life and plans in general, and perhaps try to offer criticisms in that department. Or perhaps you could try playing the victim-aggressor game with her. Or maybe make fun of type of people with her. Or try to show your superpowers, such as your spiritual timelessness, or ability to forecast the outcomes of certain small events in the news. Or perhaps just show that you feel safe and secure around her, and that you are not just some other random acquaintance of hers. I think the best thing to do is to give more information about you, this ESFp, and the relationship between the two of you so the members on the board can help you more precisely.

[BLauritson]

I phoned up my other ESFp friend last night to ask her advice on the situation. She's suggested inviting the girl I'm interested in out for a drink, but not necessarily as a date just yet, and slowly take it from there. So.. that is what I shall do.

Based on linguistic style and cognitive content, you sound just like two ISTjs I've known well who test ISTj. Not sure how to explain it. It's an intuitive thing. And when I compare/contrast your writing with INTjs and INTps I've known, yours is of a very different nature.

Funnily enough, back when I was still relatively new to Socionics and only semi-certain about my type, there was a guy over at the Socionics.com forums that thought I was an MBTI ISTJ for some reason, although I didn't think to ask why back then.

You come across as being very concerned about proper behavior in a social situation in order to unearth its potential. This reflects the genteel nature of ISTjs who would just so happen to be seeking, needing their dual's assistance: the ENFj, who is the expert at this. In a situation like yours, an INTp would naturally be kind and polite, and base it on Fi - even if they were unsure of the other's feelings. But they might devise their own preconcocted, situational experiments to divine the other person's feelings, as well as engage in accurately predicting the other's behavior to figure out what's going on. One way would be to entirely withdraw and see if the other person makes an effort to get in touch, thereby showing interest. But an ISTj is more concerned about proper behavior per social norms in order to access what is really going on inside the person first. Not treat the other person like the subject of an experiment - poking the situation this way and that to see what results. If others have different views, by all means, contribute!

Ah.. I think I detect a slight misunderstanding here. The bit about devising situational experiments is something I always do anyway, but due to various factors I couldn't decide just from that, whether or not I should pursue her. I still do that nowadays, but I realised that I wasn't going to get anywhere unless I sought help on the matter, hence why I started this thread. I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think, based on that, that I'm an ISTj. Besides, if ever I spend prolonged time with an ENFj (my ENFj coworker being an example here), relations always get progressively worse over time, not better. Conversely, I'm yet to have a bad experience with an ESFp, so.. obviously that alone doesn't guarantee that I'm an INTp, but based on various factors that I'm too lazy to type up right now, I've settled on INTp as my type. Even if not INTp, I'm most definitely gamma.

Thanks again for the responses everyone, they've helped a lot. I'll post any updates as they come along.

[BLauritson]

Not that it makes any difference, but just to tie up this loose end I thought I'd mention that nothing ended up happening in the end. I was planning to make a move, but she doesn't appear to be interested, so better friends than enemies.

Oh well, no doubt I'll meet someone else in a few month's time and repeat the entire process all over again. If it weren't for the good aspects of being an INTp, I think I'd bloody well hate it for this reason. Or perhaps I'm just scapegoating my supposed type for my lack of social skills. Makes no difference either way really. There doesn't have to be a reason why someone can be a lone fish in a sea of happy couples, it just is. Natural selection will take its course and, within time, the unworthy will disappear. Perhaps this is what sets me in pursuit of answers to unanswerable questions, a journey which will never end, yet serves to distract me from the realities of life. Perhaps one day, I shall grow up and out of this bubble I create for myself and actually engineer reality to fit my desires. Until then, I will be locked forever in a fantasy.

Hmm.. I should do more creative writing. I seem to spout some interesting stuff when I'm in the mood.

[Jarno]

although i'm not such a really good writer, you seem to think the same as i do when something doesn't go as planned.

maybe this makes you feel better, just try to see it as an experiment, like a training, building up to the point where there is somebody who's interested.

[KSpin]

Hmm.. I should do more creative writing. I seem to spout some interesting stuff when I'm in the mood.

You know that even if you did take it up, you'd only get bored with it after a while, and move onto something else. Then perhaps in a while you'll come back to it, and either laugh at your idea, or try again, and repeat what happened before.

Right?

[Jarno]

Hmm.. I should do more creative writing. I seem to spout some interesting stuff when I'm in the mood.

You know that even if you did take it up, you'd only get bored with it after a while, and move onto something else. Then perhaps in a while you'll come back to it, and either laugh at your idea, or try again, and repeat what happened before.

Right?

story of my life...

[BLauritson]

Hmm.. I should do more creative writing. I seem to spout some interesting stuff when I'm in the mood.

You know that even if you did take it up, you'd only get bored with it after a while, and move onto something else. Then perhaps in a while you'll come back to it, and either laugh at your idea, or try again, and repeat what happened before.

Right?

Well, I do songwriting and poetry as a hobby anyway (moreso the former), so it wouldn't be too different to what I currently do...on THAT note however, I once tried to write a short story but lacked the devotion to do so. Well, not the devotion as such, since I liked the concept, but.. bah I don't know how to explain it. meh, I'll stick to my songwriting, it seems to be one of the few things I've been able to keep at of all the interests I've had. I'll just keep my random poetic rants for reflecting on things like the above.

[liveandletlive]

It's been a while since your last post and I hope that things with u and the ESFP have gone swimmingly to say the least.

Being an ESFP chick myself, here's some things that I would suggest for you:

- We are really good with detecting other people's motives and seeing as most of the INTp's I know are not exactly the kings and queens of subtlety (did I spell that right?) she probably has a feeling ure into her anyway... which is probably a good thing for you cuz then you know if you ask her out or try to take things to the next step and she accepts she is most likely interested as well.

- I would suggest doing something in which you are both interested in but that is still a date or date-ish. Like seeing a movie on a topic on which you're both interested in or going to a cool/different restaurant thats atypical of the usual date. Doing something new and peculiar is so much fun for us.

- I'm not sure if this ESFP has been introduced to socionics or not or if shes interested in it if she is, but you should try to talk to her about it and be sure to explain its practical uses. You would be feeding her hidden agenda and your creative function so overall a very good thing. Us ESFP's love socionics too even though it may not seem like our thing. For a little intellectual game bring up mutual friends and ask her to try to type them. Thats one of our favorite applications of socionics.

- Most importantly, just be yourself! Being you is everything she wants and needs- she just has to see that!

Good luck and I hope I helped out!

[Jarno]

Finally an ESFP on this forum.

By the way, great to hear directly from an ESFP how they like to be approached.

[liveandletlive]

why thank u!

[uninspired]

My advice is to try to get into a small group situation with an ESFp; in that case they will notice you naturally and will be very engaging. They really like introverts (which is probably one of the many reasons INTp is their dual).

[BLauritson]

Haha, I'd forgotten all about this thread. Well, thank you for the advice there, liveandletlive, although nothing ever actually happened with the ESFp. I (eventually) approached her with a poem I'd written, although she told me she wasn't interested. Interestingly enough it's the most painless rejection I've ever had actually.. she responded more or less instantly when she read the email I'd sent her and she just directly told me she wasn't interested. That and she agreed to forget the conversation ever happened, so.. I'm still friends with her now actually.

[Mariano Rajoy]

For what it is worth, my experience with approaching an SEE was fairly easy. We worked together, so I knew a little bit about her from our conversations. She was a theater major, and I really wanted to spend more time with her. A production she was in was coming up, so I asked her if she had any tickets. She was surprised and excited, and asked me if I was sure I wanted to go. I said absolutely. The next day she called me and we met up even though the play wasn't for a few weeks. It was a nice way to show interest without stressing anybody out because a play is public, and she was happy that I was watching or at least wanting to watch her.

Anyhow, I suggest just showing interest in the person in some way. Ask to participate in what they like to do.

[liveandletlive]

aww sry about that man. but hey at least it wasnt too painful and now u have sum advice if u ever run into (or more likely they run into u lol) another SEE!

[Warlord]

I've been in very similar situation once.

but she doesn't appear to be interested

How did you find this out? Or did you just decide yourself it's this way? EDIT: You already answered this, nvm.

I was going to suggest this. But if this is bust, I guess it's for the future reference. Try reversing the situation so, that ask something like:"would you ask a guy out?". Would it really work, I have no idea whatsover :wink:

[Warlord]

We are really good with detecting other people's motives and seeing as most of the INTp's I know are not exactly the kings and queens of subtlety (did I spell that right?).

Hmm I always thought that we INTp's were too subtle in "these issues". But I guess it's just me. I'm probably the subtles person I know, anyone subtler than me, runs away Maybe not subtle in other manners.

If you had been a guy, I would have told you to keep that pickle in your pants. But since you aren't... Well, I'm not saying anything.

[Khamelion]

Sorry but have we established live's gender?! O_o

[liveandletlive]

haha oh sorry im of the female gender