Confusedasianboy: ENFp or ENFj?

[confusedasianboy]

This has really been bugging me. I have a feeling I'm right in the middle of the P/J department, and I need help figuring out what I am!!!

I'm pretty sure of my ENF, but J/P is where I'm confused. So help me out. I'll do my best to describe some stuff.
1. I'm 17.
2. Although I tolerate differences in people, I myself would be very reluctant to accept people I love and know very well breaking social norms. In other words, I have no problem with interracial marriages. However, I would never get into one.
3. When I start writing my essays, I like to just brainstorm and throw out ideas. My deepest and most ingenious ideas come during random brainstorming.
4. I'm not the guy that says: procrastination is good. However, when I do procrastinate, I work efficiently in the final moments. Time pressure is very nerve-wracking; I hate it. I never am energized by knowing that I'll be under pressure. Nevertheless, I work well under it.
6. Only things that genuinely challenge me interest me for long. I like a continuous, uninterrputed learning experience. When I am constantly immersed in a learning environment, that's what I like. It's hard for me to sit down and focus on something, but when I do, I usually finish it.
7. I'm extremely competitive. To start out, I set goals that are fairly high. As time passes, I set even higher goals until they are virtually at the very top...and almost impossible.
8. I'm pretty insecure about my ability, appearance to an unreasonable extent. I want to portray the best image at all times. I would love to be my natural self, but maintaining my reputation is extremely important.
9. When people say they want me to go to a party, I say yes right away, even though I am not sure that I am able to go. Then I go into the process of trying to convince my parents to go. I don't like to tell people that I might not be able to go for some reason.
10. Situation that happens a lot: "Why didn't you tell me earlier?" (parents). My inner answer is that I didn't want to create conflict between their authority and my desire to go, so if I surprise them all of a sudden, they're probably just let me go b/c they have less time to react."
11. I love spontaneity, and I love it when people surprise me. If someone were to suddenly say that they were going to the movies, eating dinner, then doing something afterward, it would be really hard to say no. Sometimes, I just have impulses...if they are refused because "it doesn't make any sense," I get very upset.
12. When I feel discouraged, confused, I write down all of my goals on paper and make a list of accomplishments that might happen ahead, and by what time I might become what. After about 30, I have no idea where my life is going to lead...and I am always searching for that perfect life for me
13. I want to make enough money so that it is not an issue in my daily life; financial security and comfort is extremely important. I want to manage my money well, but only if it was something I chose to do, not something I was forced to do.
14. When people don't let me do something because I haven't shown responsibility, I get upset, because I'm thinking: "Let me try first, THEN judge me." I never feel as if I'll let someone down, and am very optimistic in that regard. I'm a strong believer in second chances.
15. It usually takes a lot to make me annoyed. Even when someone lost my glasses, I was pretty calm. Also, even when I know deep down inside that an activity might not be fun, I tend to go along with it and hope for the best.
16. Organized in my daily life: really appreciate homes that are clean and well-decorated, need things to be squeaky clean, make shopping lists...i really like to make lists and think about what's ahead!
17. i immediately notice people that are of a high status.
18. highly gifted

Furthermore, does my feeling or intuition seem stronger?


Feeling:
1) I tend to experience powerful emotions...when I'm looking up stuff online, and I go on travel websites, it thrills me to just look at people's comments...and I really feel the places in myself and all of the atmosphere.
2) The feeling that I get is very important to me...and I didn't like a certain video game; it was because the environment wasn't as pleasing...
3) Everything in my wardrobe must be matched...no extra stuff that I don't wear, and the stuff that I have needs to be personally attached to me.
4) Real estate really fascinates me...looking at the individual characteristics of a house is awesome

Intuition:
1) very good at seeing the general principles in ideas, especially political and social issues; i'm not so quick in economics/business issues
2) virtually all of my cognitive processes come from intuition; so much as to make it very difficult to follow simple directions and tasks.

So...ENFJ or ENFP?
=)
What is your first impression from meeting people such as myself?

[vague]

Strong ; ENFj works.

[UDP]

8. I'm pretty insecure about my ability, appearance to an unreasonable extent. I want to portray the best image at all times. I would love to be my natural self, but maintaining my reputation is extremely important.

Yes

seems to be the case.
rational

ENFj

[UDP]

What is your first impression

You seem like someone who would have a dual ISTj rather than an ISTp.

The way you present your information seems very easy to understand, in terms of ( is my leading function). So it seems like your leading function would be > , that is to say, ENFj over ENFp. You also stress in that you feel compelled to be very concerned about your reputation, which is apparent in how you present yourself here -- you are very concerned with how you come across, the appearance of yourself.

Your comments seem to imply creative, and also an appreciation of , which is a Beta quadra value, and the creative function of ENFj's dual, the ISTj.

[confusedasianboy]

Thanks a lot! Are ENFJs by definition bad at mathematics/sciences/analysis? (role function?)
My friend is an ENFJ (I strongly believe so), and he is extremely good at math, computer science, English, physics, music, foreign languages (but poor at history and biology). I'm also decent at math (i participate in lots of science/math extracurricular activities..)

The weakest function seems to be that of sensing stuff...definitely, I'm almost oblivious to a lot of things that go on abot me.
I'll read the summary of the functions tonight.

Again, thanks a bunch.

[Creepy-bg]

Thanks a lot! Are ENFJs by definition bad at mathematics/sciences/analysis? (role function?)
My friend is an ENFJ (I strongly believe so), and he is extremely good at math, computer science, English, physics, music, foreign languages (but poor at history and biology). I'm also decent at math (i participate in lots of science/math extracurricular activities..)

The weakest function seems to be that of sensing stuff...definitely, I'm almost oblivious to a lot of things that go on abot me.
I'll read the summary of the functions tonight.

Again, thanks a bunch.

I don't think anybody is by definition bad at anything... it's all about preference.

[timeofurlife42]

definatly enfj, the only reason i say this is that you sound like your better at finishing projects than starting them, which is not a trait of enfp's at all

[Topaz]

I would say you are ENFJ because you are so focused on performance and image. There seems to be an intensity to you that usually is not in an ENFP imo. Nevertheless, I know some ENFJs that are good at just about anything they put their minds to, even some very sensory things. Even though they are really perfectionist they seem to get along well with others. I think they are too hard on themselves. :wink:

[astralsilky]

... I have no problem with interracial marriages. However, I would never get into one. ...

... I want to portray the best image at all times. I would love to be my natural self, but maintaining my reputation is extremely important. ...

... it thrills me to just look at people's comments ...

... very good at seeing the general principles in ideas, especially political and social issues; i'm not so quick in economics/business issues ...

... very difficult to follow simple directions and tasks ...

In my estimation, the isolated statements above tipped the scale to ENFj. Interesting to see how many agree on this!

The 1st statement reflects Fe > Fi and Ni > Ne.
2nd is totally ENFj (for the same reasons as 1).
3rd is an unusual expression which an ENFj friend of mine would definitely use.
4th is subtly dual-seeking.
5th is 100% dual-seeking.

[confusedasianboy]

ENFj is virtually unanimous.

What are some other really subtle clues that could insure that ENFj is totally correct?

Oh yeah, a daily occurrence in my life is:
i feel like my loved ones aren't really enjoying their life, I want them to have more fun, stop being so serious
they respond: "in life, you have to be serious!"
i say, well have fun too!
they say: "you're so irresponsible..."

When I try to get my loved ones to have fun, they end up criticizing me....and that hurts.

When I try to motivate them, they always say that I should worry about myself...but when my loved ones aren't happy and content, and when I know they're missing something in their lives...yet still don't do anything about it in a self-perpetuating cycle, I CAN'T focus...they just don't see that i want to see that people are happy and satisfied before i can feel secure. My resentment that I am constantly criticized is always in conflict with the real and deep love that I feel for my loved ones. So there are naturally moments in which I get angry...frustrated. When I tried to teach someone I really loved better English and computer skills so that they'd be more confident, they began to criticize ME for other things...I felt reallllly bad

Planning vacations, i would be relegated to just sitting back...and not planning anything. Very annoying. I wanted to stay at home and ignore it all.

I also keep thinking about how our lives could be ideal...and there was a period of time (about 2 months) in which I kept daydreaming about that...I realized that when these ideals were not met, that I felt really disturbed...furthermore, with respect to myself, I am mixed between appreciation at all of the advantages that I have had...and that just little more I want to make my life even better.

Stuff like that...when I'm in one of those disturbed moods, I shut down socially, and become self-conscious, and have a strange feeling that all of these people actually know of these things that cause life to deviate from the ideal, and I feel as if I need to make my life ideal for me to be really happy and for these people to really see me as I am and respect/like/love me.

Other stuff...I was always one of the most extraverted people in the classroom, but I often was alienated b/c of my strange actions...trying to get attention. A lot of times, I would leave stuff lying around, and I was very far from responsible. That's why I think I'm an ENFP. It could be that I was extremely bored with all of the classroom material. It could be possible that if I was challenged by my work, I'd have developed more J study habits (is this a valid idea?) It's strange, my mother (Who is almost certainly an ISTJ...like 99% certainty), and I get along very poorly, and she believes that I am very disorganized...could this be a result from my generally negative experiences in the elementary school setting? If she's my dual, then I should get a long with her very well (But ONLY ISTJ in terms of MBTI, I'm not sure about socionics).

I also have a very powerful talent in teaching...and when I'm teaching someone else, I tend to learn the subject better and reaffirm my confidence in my own learning. I also noticed that I love to challenge myself academically, often to the limit, and I sign up for more classes than I can handle (with my current study habits). (A T instead of F preference?) I also hate doing work based off my own measurements, because I can't stand the notion that I'm working with something that by definition has inherent error (therefore, I'm not good in a laboratory setting). I tend to want to know something for sure, as in if someone tells me a fact, I tend to check it with a variety of sources and remove any contradictions; I see logical contradictions and things that might seem wrong pretty quickly). For example, when I was learning Spanish, I would reallllly struggle at "memorizing" conjugations because I wasn't sure that they were correct. I couldn't go off gut feeling because I wanted to 100% account for all of the exceptions. When this didn't work, my grade naturally suffered. So yeah...

Does this clarify anymore? What hints are against ENFj and for ENFp? Because if my mother knew about socionics, she'd definitely classify me as EN F or T P
I'm definitely extraverted. (won chocolate, wrapping paper contest...for a PS2!!!!!, citizenship grades bad b/c talking too much)
Intuitive (I'm intuitive almost to the point where sensing is impaired)
Feeling (probably feeling...the emotions that I feel are too powerful and often to be a thinking type, I feel sorry for people and really guilty about a lot of things in society)
Perceiving (my mother would say I'm irresponsible, etc; I do not know, please comment on my P or J based on my school experiences/early life)

From personality page

Nearly all ENFJs will recognize the following characteristics in themselves. They should embrace and nourish these strengths:

· Making others feel valued and important....I guess...my extraverted feeling hasn't been developed enough in my predominatly academic environment

· Quickly seeing the positive and negative aspects of a human situation....yeah definitely. i can immediately notice what can be compromised, how i can get others to see the other side, and convince them.

· Expressing their feelings clearly...maybe..?=)

· Offering loyalty and commitment to partners, family and work mates...yeah definitely, loyalty is something I really value; loyalty to people over loyalty to an organization (I could perform a really mean prank on the school officials, but I could never insult/hurt my friends).

· Trying to always find the solution which works for everyone. yup. when my friends are fighting, i kinda listen to one, then listen to the other...and try to allay their resentments, stuff like that

· Encouraging humour and self expression in others...hahah if i become more developed/mature!

· Finding ways to help others fulfil their needs...same as above!

· Affirming positive community values.

· Naturally falling into leadership roles in their community

for the last two, definitely. i want to know who the leaders of my community are, and help plant trees, direct nature programs, and just do small beautification projects and really immerse myself in my local area, and help people get a better awareness of it; hahaha i have lots of civic pride!

It's weird, you guys have all said I was ENFj!

[Megan]

It's weird, you guys have all said I was ENFj!

We do not all think that. I am not convinced you are an ENFj at all despite what you have written here.

[confusedasianboy]

Yeah, when I meant "all," I meant that all of the people that have commented.

I'll revise that to majority. (Please expand?)

[aestrivex]

clearly Fe-oriented.

[UDP]

Your asian background, which you desired to make apparent via your username, and which you apparently feel proud of

is clearly apparent. You are a clear cut example of , and not wanting to disappoint your family.

I also have a very powerful talent in teaching...and when I'm teaching someone else, I tend to learn the subject better and reaffirm my confidence in my own learning.

That's got nothing to do with you - that's how it is for everyone.

I also noticed that I love to challenge myself academically, often to the limit, and I sign up for more classes than I can handle (with my current study habits). (A T instead of F preference?)

Absolutely not.
It fits in very well with the image of yourself you are trying to present, especially to win your family's approval through academic success.
That is not at all unusual for asian people, as you know.

What hints are against ENFj and for ENFp? Because if my mother knew about socionics, she'd definitely classify me as EN F or T P

What? if your mother knew about socionics? What is that supposed to mean?
IT sounds like you don't quite get the difference between socionics and MBTI yet. Do you understand they are not the same theories? That they are not identical?

Perceiving (my mother would say I'm irresponsible, etc; I do not know, please comment on my P or J based on my school experiences/early life)

From personality page

......

It's weird, you guys have all said I was ENFj!

You are clearly ignorant of the fact that Personalitypages is an MBTI / Kiersy site, and this is a SOCIONICS site. They are NOT THE SAME THEORY.

ENFj =/= ENFJ.

In socionics, you are an EIE.


PS: I don't care what your mother thinks, certainly not nearly as much as you do. What she'd say doesn't really matter here, sorry.
PPS: (....)

[Exodus]

Hey now, let's be nice.

I also have a very powerful talent in teaching...and when I'm teaching someone else, I tend to learn the subject better and reaffirm my confidence in my own learning.

I think this is a strongly Fe-quadra tendency. Teaching = Fe + Ti.

[implied]

I think this is a strongly Fe-quadra tendency. Teaching = Fe + Ti.

gah stop doing this. music was Fe + Si last week regardless of the numerous Ni + Te composers that seem to come up every week.


(however, i admit that i have heard auvi express the same thing - teaching in order to further cement the concept in yourself.)

[implied]

I think this is a strongly Fe-quadra tendency. Teaching = Fe + Ti.

gah stop doing this. music was Fe + Si last week regardless of the numerous Ni + Te composers that seem to come up every week.


(however, i admit that i have heard auvi express the same thing - teaching in order to further cement the concept in yourself.)

[Mea]

Shouldn't this be in what's my type forum?
So many people are creating "type me" threads here nowadays.

Anyway, those descriptions sound Fe>Fi.
Beta/Alpha?

[implied]

it should be.

*goes to work*

[FDG]

ENFj 2w3 sx/so

[Mea]

ENFj 2w3 sx/so

Wow. That was detailed.

But he said he doesn't get along well with his ISTj mom.
If he's ENFj, then I doubt his mom is a socionics ISTj.
Possibly ESFj or ESTj? or ISFj instead?

[Creepy-bg]

(nevermind)

[Exodus]

I think this is a strongly Fe-quadra tendency. Teaching = Fe + Ti.

gah stop doing this. music was Fe + Si last week regardless of the numerous Ni + Te composers that seem to come up every week.

lol, fair enough. I'll trade you music for teaching.

(however, i admit that i have heard auvi express the same thing - teaching in order to further cement the concept in yourself.)

Yeah.

Music - probably depends on the approach and purpose. I think music is naturally meant to stimulate the emotions and senses, but what the hey.

[Jarno]

hmm I guess i'll probably wrong looking at the rest, but I think you could be an ENFP.

That competitive thing, is something my boss also has, he's an ENFP.
ENFP are really "people's persons" so if ENFJ is based on the idea of "people's person" than it's a weak argument.

By the way, this question gives some clarity sometimes:

Which gives you most stress and which makes you feel relieved?
A) if you have no appointments made for the weekend and you have all the options open.
B) if all appointments are planned and decided in advance for your weekend.

[UDP]

ENFj 2w3 sx/so

Wow. That was detailed.

But he said he doesn't get along well with his ISTj mom.
If he's ENFj, then I doubt his mom is a socionics ISTj.
Possibly ESFj or ESTj? or ISFj instead?

He isn't aware of what socionics is, he doesn't know what type his mother is, legitimately, at this point. Even if she turns out to be ISTj in the future.

[confusedasianboy]

Which gives you most stress and which makes you feel relieved?
A) if you have no appointments made for the weekend and you have all the options open.
B) if all appointments are planned and decided in advance for your weekend.


I'm not too sure...

ok lets see...when I have a lot of things to go to, I get more done. If I have a lot of free time, it seems to go away. I like to be constantly moving from place to place, getting things done.

[UDP]

Which gives you most stress and which makes you feel relieved?
A) if you have no appointments made for the weekend and you have all the options open.
B) if all appointments are planned and decided in advance for your weekend.

That's kind of a weak dichotomy, more MBTI than socionics

[aestrivex]

Which gives you most stress and which makes you feel relieved?
A) if you have no appointments made for the weekend and you have all the options open.
B) if all appointments are planned and decided in advance for your weekend.

That's kind of a weak dichotomy, more MBTI than socionics

agreed; the answer to that question tells you absolutely nothing. in a very general sense, i would expect both an IEE and an EIE to pick that former option.

[Jarno]

Which gives you most stress and which makes you feel relieved?
A) if you have no appointments made for the weekend and you have all the options open.
B) if all appointments are planned and decided in advance for your weekend.

That's kind of a weak dichotomy, more MBTI than socionics

What's wrong with using MBTI style questions?

I'm just figuring out if he's Rational or Irrational.

Since I ain't gonna meet him in person, this isn't a bad alternative I would think.

[Joy]

Which gives you most stress and which makes you feel relieved?
A) if you have no appointments made for the weekend and you have all the options open.
B) if all appointments are planned and decided in advance for your weekend.

That's kind of a weak dichotomy, more MBTI than socionics

What's wrong with using MBTI style questions?

I'm just figuring out if he's Rational or Irrational.

Since I ain't gonna meet him in person, this isn't a bad alternative I would think.

If you absolutely MUST use that dichotomy, which is ill advised, at least use these criteria.

[Jarno]

If you absolutely MUST use that dichotomy, which is ill advised, at least use these criteria.

Well I believe i've read my criterium on a Socionics site. (i'm not sure though)

But if there's a better question to ask him to determine if he's an ENFP or ENFJ feel free to put it here.

[Exodus]

Which gives you most stress and which makes you feel relieved?
A) if you have no appointments made for the weekend and you have all the options open.
B) if all appointments are planned and decided in advance for your weekend.


I'm not too sure...

ok lets see...when I have a lot of things to go to, I get more done. If I have a lot of free time, it seems to go away. I like to be constantly moving from place to place, getting things done.

The question may have been silly, but his answer is telling anyways - very Ej temperament.