ISTPs and grocery stores

**jewels** · 05-04-2007, 06:12 AM

I've noticed several ISTPs work at grocery stores, usually nicer ones like Trader Joe's. I'm not sure why this is, but I thought I would share this bit of info, as us ENFPs are always on the lookout...(or, well, maybe just I am?)

My problem though, is that cute ISTPs make me go silent.

I've been going to the same Trader Joe's for 3 or 4 years, and the same cute ISTP and I always look over at eachother, and then never talk. Of course, I did have a couple of boyfriends that I would go to the store w/ for a couple of those years. But I've been single now for a long time (and he should be able to tell from the single-serving portions I buy). But for some reason I cannot make small talk with him. I almost purposefully ignore him. I don't know why.

Anyone else, I'm chatty. But I can't even say "hi" to him like a normal person would! The only things I've ever said to him in all these years are "hey, there is a really gross smashed egg in this carton" (as he was stocking the shelves by the eggs). And then he said something about not seeing me in the store for a while. And said something like I must have missed him, or he missed me, I forget. And then I hurried away while saying "yeah, well I come here whenever I need to buy food!" (such a witty reply, I know...)

And then he did notice when I dyed my hair one shade darker (it was subtle, so I was surprised he noticed). But usually he doesn't say anything.

I just can't bring myself to do the usual chit chat. I guess I've just run across player ISTPs lately (they do exist), so I'm probably just hesitant.

What should I say to the guy? Tonight I was in there and this other checkout guy commented on my green tea. I said I just picked it up randomly and didn't know if it was good. and the ISTP was like "aw shut up" or something. It didn't really make any sense. And then it was awkwardly silent once again.

There is also a hot guy at the safeway who stocks produce.

Needless to say, I buy way too many groceries...

I guess I just don't want to scare the ISTPs off by being too forward. Any tips?

**olduser** · 05-04-2007, 06:58 AM

pay him instead of the store. Everyone likes that.

**mikemex** · 05-04-2007, 09:11 AM

It's really simple: fear for rejection.

I don't know how much experience you have with the opposite sex, but I suppose not much. Thing is, you are idealizing things too much, expecting things to unfold too fast. But it rarely works that way. More often than not, relationships start "loose" between ENFp and others, in the sense that it takes too much time for the ENFp to decide. One day she thinks she's going for it, the next one she thinks that maybe it's not worth it. But it all revolves around the anticipation of rejection. You know, most psychiatric disorders related to anxiety are in fact related to the anticipation of negative emotions.

It's a vicious circle you can only break if you expose yourself to rejection and realize it's not the end of the world if it happens. First, because you have to find a really cruel person to get ridiculed for it (introverts in particular feel it like a compliment). Second, because ENFp are almost indestructible; no matter how embarrassing your situation is, you'll eventually get over it. Just remember that, if for some reason you get rejected, that's not a sign that there is something wrong with you.

The key for success in love is to love yourself.

P. S. If you really like this guy, you can force things in a nice way. Buy him a present, something small and cheap and give it to him saying that you appreciate his work. Don't forget to smile :wink:

**Slacker** · 05-04-2007, 12:47 PM

Come on, you know how to flirt, right? LOL

Ask him for advice about a product and flirt a little. Flirting is the first step because it sends a clear signal that you're interested, but it isn't pushy. Then, if he responds in any way at all, even just slightly (this is an ISTp after all), he's probably interested too. If he rolls his eyes and goes back to work, give up. As I recall, most guys respond very positively to flirting.

Ask him if he knows how good something tastes, or if he knows which of two different choices is better, or something like that.

**UDP** · 05-04-2007, 04:01 PM

ask him to help you with something, or make a decision.
Ask him about a vegetable or something, and then what his favorite vegetables are

and so on.

Ask him if he'd like to get dinner sometime

Creepy-bg · 05-04-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by UDP III

ask him to help you with something, or make a decision.
Ask him about a vegetable or something, and then what his favorite vegetables are

and so on.

Ask him if he'd like to get dinner sometime

sugestive questions about zuccini and melons =/= flirting (ok maybe it does

)

**Mea** · 05-04-2007, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Slacker Mom

Come on, you know how to flirt, right? LOL

Ask him for advice about a product and flirt a little. Flirting is the first step because it sends a clear signal that you're interested, but it isn't pushy. Then, if he responds in any way at all, even just slightly (this is an ISTp after all), he's probably interested too. If he rolls his eyes and goes back to work, give up. As I recall, most guys respond very positively to flirting.

Ask him if he knows how good something tastes, or if he knows which of two different choices is better, or something like that.

LOL! I think it's a lil harder to flirt with someone you're interested in.

Creepy-Diana · 05-04-2007, 05:21 PM

.

**Mea** · 05-04-2007, 05:29 PM

First! Don't stress yourself too much thinking about what to say.
ENFps are suppose to be good at thinking of what to talk about (if they are not stressed up

)

Second! Just be friendly. Talk about anything, don't think about it too much. lol. He's gonna love your Ne. yay!

(I think... Hmm. All the best! It seems like he noticed you quite a bit, so... go for it!

)

Creepy-bg · 05-04-2007, 05:32 PM

wear a short skirt

**cracka** · 05-04-2007, 05:38 PM

I guess I just don't want to scare the ISTPs off by being too forward. Any tips?

Being forward is probably what will work, since he doesn't seem to have the balls to do it...lol.

"Hi, how are you, I can't believe I've seen you here so often and you've never asked me out. My name is _____ btw... when you wanna go out?"

It's that easy.

**jewels** · 05-04-2007, 06:26 PM

OMG you guys are so funny! So many situations are running through my head. Like the vegetable thing...maybe I should invite him over for some broccoli? LOL J/K!

mikemex, you'd be right about the fear of rejection thing! I'm not used to having to ask guys out.

good advice slackermom. I can definitely ask questions about the grocery items. "So what do you think about this cheese? does it taste like cheese?" J/K. Hopefully I wouldn't say something like that.

As for knowing how to flirt, I actually don't think I do. I usually flirt accidentally by being friendly, but it's not intentional. Usually the guys who ask me out are guys I just thought were friends, which is why I was kidding around w/ them.

And mea, I'm glad you understand. I think just trying to not freak out is a good approach. I can usually ramble on about anything, which is why this situation is strange. I'll just try to pretend that he's not cute.

hmm, being forward sounds like a good approach, Cracka. I've done that before, but only with waiters and borders bookstore employees. Never tried it in a grocery store. But I like the way you phrased that. Sounds very confident.

A short skirt? lol.

hmm, I'm going to have to figure out if he has a girlfriend though.

If this goes wrong, I may have to drive to another Trader Joes, LOL. I'll have to go back on Sunday and try this out.

**mikemex** · 05-04-2007, 06:45 PM

Nah, do what I told you. Best way to flirt is to mimic the other person and ISTp, since they find it difficult to open themselves, tend to show their affection with gifts. He will get the message right away. If you try to be too open you'll probably scare him and if you ask for cheese he might not get it.

And do it the next time you go over there. Don't make the mistake of thinking too much about it, just do it.

**Slacker** · 05-04-2007, 06:48 PM

If someone I didn't really know gave me a gift, it would feel stalkerish.

And I strongly disagree with this:

Best way to flirt is to mimic the other person

The best way to flirt with an ISTp is to yourself - to be an ENFp naturally doing what you would naturally do.

Sorry, Mikemex.

**force my hand** · 05-04-2007, 08:32 PM

Projecting myself into the situation, if I commented both on your hair and the fact that I hadn't seen you in a while, that would be akin to a marriage proposal by a 'normal' person.

Yeah, I'm being silly, but it's also true to to an extent.

**mikemex** · 05-04-2007, 09:14 PM

You don't seem to understand that the key point in all of this is shyness, and a severe case of it it seems to me. One doesn't go for years noticing a person and doing nothing about it. Constant frustration due to inhibition can lead to depression and low self esteem, which reinforces the vicious circle.

Shyness is an anxiety disorder, closely related to fear; it's a phobia. What happens is that a person sees another as extremely attractive and powerful, and thus dangerous. Conscious or not, there is a feeling that, when you're in presence of this person you are going to get hurt. Is that simple. It's the reptilian brain which takes control in such situations: get away, and fast. Why does she "intentionally ignore him"? Wild animals rarely look at each other's eyes directly because that's a sign of aggression, so they tend to avoid such kind of behavior. Coincidence?

It's a organic thing and no amount of encouragement words is going to get over it. It's like a million times easier to think about it in your room or an internet forum than to stand up in front of this person as if nothing happens. It's not going to happen. What she needs is real treatment and it means controlled exposure to the source of anxiety. People with arachnophobia is treated this way: they are exposed to spiders until the phobia has lowered to manageable levels.

So here the matter is to initiate a friendly contact, even if it's brief. Giving a present is the best way I can think of because it will encourage the guy to be more assertive and that will reduce the pressure on her to make up the conversation. Maybe it can start with a friendly greeting, later some personal questions, until the anxiety gradually lowers and she will feel more comfortable in his presence.

Here mental health is more important than the relationship itself. She has to break this avoidance tendency. To the hell if she looks "stalkerish".

**jessica129** · 05-04-2007, 09:17 PM

These things are never easy. It's easy to over analyze and talk yourself out of doing it, but if you really like this guy, i'd just do it and be as up front as possible. If you see him in an aisle stocking something, jokingly walk by and throw a "so when are we gonna go out for dinner?" line out there with a smirk on your face...he won't know if you're joking or not but it'll make him think. Bit of an ice breaker I guess. Well, that's what I'd feel most comfortable doing. I have the opposite problem...some guy at my local grocery store literally follows me around asking me out after i've told him no several times. Just don't be that freaky.

**jewels** · 05-04-2007, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by mikemex

You don't seem to understand that the key point in all of this is shyness, and a severe case of it it seems to me. One doesn't go for years noticing a person and doing nothing about it. Constant frustration due to inhibition can lead to depression and low self esteem, which reinforces the vicious circle.

Shyness is an anxiety disorder, closely related to fear; it's a phobia. What happens is that a person sees another as extremely attractive and powerful, and thus dangerous. Conscious or not, there is a feeling that, when you're in presence of this person you are going to get hurt. Is that simple. It's the reptilian brain which takes control in such situations: get away, and fast. Why does she "intentionally ignore him"? Wild animals rarely look at each other's eyes directly because that's a sign of aggression, so they tend to avoid such kind of behavior. Coincidence?

It's a organic thing and no amount of encouragement words is going to get over it. It's like a million times easier to think about it in your room or an internet forum than to stand up in front of this person as if nothing happens. It's not going to happen. What she needs is real treatment and it means controlled exposure to the source of anxiety. People with arachnophobia is treated this way: they are exposed to spiders until the phobia has lowered to manageable levels.

So here the matter is to initiate a friendly contact, even if it's brief. Giving a present is the best way I can think of because it will encourage the guy to be more assertive and that will reduce the pressure on her to make up the conversation. Maybe it can start with a friendly greeting, later some personal questions, until the anxiety gradually lowers and she will feel more comfortable in his presence.

Here mental health is more important than the relationship itself. She has to break this avoidance tendency. To the hell if she looks "stalkerish".

I appreciate your trying to help, but it's not like I'm incapable of talking to him. And I'm not giving him a present.

I think part of it is that I'm not living in a very good neighborhood at the moment (and live alone), so I've probably gotten in a bad habit of not being friendly. I usually just completely ignore guys when they stare at me, to keep them from saying anything. But most of the time they say something anyway, inspite of me acting like they don't exist. So if I was friendly, I imagine it'd be worse.

And it's not like I was obsessing about him for years. I had boyfriends or was dating people for most of that time.

Yes, I can be a little shy, but I've also walked up to quite a few total strangers and asked them out. I talked to most of my boyfriends first and have asked out a lot of guys, including very cute ones! So I don't think it's some sort of disorder.

When I go out in safer parts of town, I have no problem talking to guys, so I think it's just a bad habit I've gotten into in this area, since I'm usually running errands alone, while creepy guys leer at me or ask me out at the car wash. It's just the culture in this area I think. But I appreciate your concern.

**Topaz** · 05-05-2007, 12:47 AM

This is a funny conversation. It reminds me of one I had in Trader Joes. There was this cute girl in front of me in line, (she kinda looked like Britany Murphy) and she was looking at the chocolate bars.
Me: Go ahead. You know you want it.
she, turning around surprised: lol, oh you mean the chocolate?
Me: Yep. You were drinking them in with your eyes. I saw you.

She, head tilted: Tee hee, which one should I get?
Me: This one goes with your jacket (refering to the orange wrapping)
She: I dont know,... should I?
Me: You have to. Its fate. If you dont you'll throw the whole world out of balance. Do it for mankind, think of the children for gods sake.
She: LOL! OK, OK, for mankind. For the children. I'll get one

Me: You didnt know you'd be saving the world today did you? Thank you.
She: LOL!

Unfortunately I was on my way to a party I was already late for. So we just laughed and said,"See ya next time." I couldnt help grinning the rest of the evening. She was so cute. (probably another ENFP, judging by her easy going playful response

You ISTPs are so lucky

**jewels** · 05-05-2007, 01:40 AM

hahah! Topaz, that's funny! You should have gotten her digits...she was obviously intersted, w/ the head tilting and all! I guess Trader Joe's is becoming quite the pick-up place.

**mikemex** · 05-05-2007, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by jewels

I appreciate your trying to help, but it's not like I'm incapable of talking to him. And I'm not giving him a present.

I think part of it is that I'm not living in a very good neighborhood at the moment (and live alone), so I've probably gotten in a bad habit of not being friendly. I usually just completely ignore guys when they stare at me, to keep them from saying anything. But most of the time they say something anyway, inspite of me acting like they don't exist. So if I was friendly, I imagine it'd be worse.

And it's not like I was obsessing about him for years. I had boyfriends or was dating people for most of that time.

Yes, I can be a little shy, but I've also walked up to quite a few total strangers and asked them out. I talked to most of my boyfriends first and have asked out a lot of guys, including very cute ones! So I don't think it's some sort of disorder.

When I go out in safer parts of town, I have no problem talking to guys, so I think it's just a bad habit I've gotten into in this area, since I'm usually running errands alone, while creepy guys leer at me or ask me out at the car wash. It's just the culture in this area I think. But I appreciate your concern.

Ok. but, honestly, your first post seemed quite different.

**IcEPiCk** · 05-06-2007, 03:10 AM

an ENFp who doesnt know how to flirt with someone?

man what is UP!

**cracka** · 05-06-2007, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Topaz

This is a funny conversation. It reminds me of one I had in Trader Joes. There was this cute girl in front of me in line, (she kinda looked like Britany Murphy) and she was looking at the chocolate bars.
Me: Go ahead. You know you want it.
she, turning around surprised: lol, oh you mean the chocolate?
Me: Yep. You were drinking them in with your eyes. I saw you.

She, head tilted: Tee hee, which one should I get?
Me: This one goes with your jacket (refering to the orange wrapping)
She: I dont know,... should I?
Me: You have to. Its fate. If you dont you'll throw the whole world out of balance. Do it for mankind, think of the children for gods sake.
She: LOL! OK, OK, for mankind. For the children. I'll get one

Me: You didnt know you'd be saving the world today did you? Thank you.
She: LOL!

Unfortunately I was on my way to a party I was already late for. So we just laughed and said,"See ya next time." I couldnt help grinning the rest of the evening. She was so cute. (probably another ENFP, judging by her easy going playful response

You ISTPs are so lucky

That's awesome...

ps - ...BUT... the fact that you were going to a party woulda been the PERFECT thing to ask her if she wanted to go. I mean, who doesn't wanna go to a party? lol

**IcEPiCk** · 05-06-2007, 02:14 PM

ENFps have the cuteness to mask their evil core

*edit...

seriuously if you know hes ISTp, be more proactive and try to get a number or something if you are attracted to him. The ENFp is a way better aggressor for initializing contact!

**jewels** · 05-06-2007, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by IcEPiCk

ENFps have the cuteness to mask their evil core

*edit...

seriuously if you know hes ISTp, be more proactive and try to get a number or something if you are attracted to him. The ENFp is a way better aggressor for initializing contact!

Their evil core? What?? Please do explain.

Yeah, I'm going to have to hit on him. I guess i just don't want him to get the wrong idea, as a lot of guys do if a girl hits on them, but we'll see.

So, does this mean ISTPs usually don't ask people out? I guess on some level, I figured if he was that interetested he'd ask.

**IcEPiCk** · 05-06-2007, 05:48 PM

its because of what society expects of us. Dont find your instincts... Just dont rape him in the grocery store either

.

Seriously not many ISTps I have known are the intializers unless they are certain its gonna happen. I dunno exactly why.

**jewels** · 05-06-2007, 06:00 PM

hahah

okay.

**IcEPiCk** · 05-06-2007, 06:02 PM

i find when I overthink these things, it ends up for the worst... My lack of intuition makes it almost pointless in the long term.

**Mea** · 05-06-2007, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by IcEPiCk

ENFps have the cuteness to mask their evil core

LOL! I'll take that as a compliment.
*cute grin* hope that masks my evil core.

**Blaze** · 05-07-2007, 03:51 PM

hmmmm i agree with slackermom, what about subtle flirting?

at some point followed by, soooo when do you get outta here? :wink:

**jewels** · 05-08-2007, 02:32 AM

man, so I go to the grocery store lookin all cute and prepared to flirt and he isn't even there! He's always there usually! cruel fate. But I'll keep y'all updated. I will have to buy groceries again, sooner or later.

**jewels** · 05-08-2007, 02:32 AM

man, so I go to the grocery store lookin all cute and prepared to flirt and he isn't even there! He's always there usually! cruel fate. But I'll keep y'all updated. I will have to buy groceries again, sooner or later.

**IcEPiCk** · 05-08-2007, 04:57 AM

initiate stalker mode!

**IcEPiCk** · 05-08-2007, 04:57 AM

initiate stalker mode!

**mikemex** · 05-08-2007, 07:49 AM