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Thread: Socionics Beta types Examples

  1. #1961

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    When theatrics dominate, it isn't very likely that Fe will only be 2D in the person's stack. 4D Fe is the obvious element here. Very little points towards Se realist.
    They are power wresters from the 80s 90s, it goes with the territory. If you want Fe and Si look to Japanese game shows. Fe goes different places in beta -> gamma. As to Se realist? I'm getting an impression you think Se is more like Te to be honest. He is a guy trying to climb the ladder using the popular culture of power wrestling to his advantage. If you want to see a LSE doing powerwrestling look at Hulk Hogan, or LSE John Cena.

    I don't consider IQ to be type related, nor style trends.
    Its not type related and I never said that. I said IF a SLE is low IQ then they may come off as dumb. Like Randy's character. He would be ESFp over ESFj by a mile.

    I compared Randy Savage to the Rock because of their emphasis and reliance on theatrics.
    Again it goes with the territory. Plus the Rock doesn't have any of the same qualities as Randy. The Rock is somewhat intellectual, a cool, smooth operator.

    Neither of them emphasized Se much ("chaotic power" or shows of strength are not what Se is about),
    More Se then any other IE. Plus, chaotic power might be exactly what the situation calls for. Shows of strength is mostly what Se looks like. I mean that's like saying smiles, or frowns are not Fe. Or the systems of mathematic relations are not Ti. Its a non-sensical, non-starter. Like why even do socionics at this point of reduced vocabulary.

    but both display tons of Fe power in their tireless work to generate enthusiasm and passion in their audience.
    You must have never seen SLE as a attention seeking person, centre of the group antics, I invite you to watch for it now. Fe mobilizing, well ask a EII because they would tell you its insufferable. Anything for a laugh, or even just some kind of reaction. Be impressed by me goddamit, I'm I not funny!

    Se is not so concerned with the show, even with Fe HA. SLE might be very considerate (even conscientious) of how they are received, but is not likely to bank their success on show and drama to such an excessive extent. You mention SEE when the conversation is about SLE vs ESE - I have a hard time following you with that.
    Okay yeah, if they are being a polite person in a polite society. But not in WWE? Like how is this point escaping you? I actually see Randy as holding back and being very conscientious in those interviews, kind even. Juxstapose to Hulk Hogan, or John Cena. They are totally different personas.

    I mentioned not being very invested in her typing, and by all means I could be wrong about my initial guess. The idea of her being IEI is what would need substantiating, and I see no rational for that typing. Your argument here is Fe Creative, so why not simply type her at SEI? I think it is doubtful that she is any kind of Pi lead, but that seems a better typing for her than any Ni lead type.
    They are all two-dimensional characters. She just acts like a IEI in the complete package of that dyad. I think you need to see it more I guess.

    "Wow, ultra strong tough man is going to beat up people, baby don't get hurt! but act like a total gentlemen to me when I smile. Good thing he can't tell how fake my reactions are, one step from fear. Hopefully he keeps a lid on his impulses so nobody can tell how crazy he is." lol.

    And surely LII will be impressed by Fe theatrics. I fail to see the controversy in my typings, honestly.
    Fe from a ESFj is totally different. Flattering guardians.

    Don't know if you want to think this is ESE-LII dyad, then just...
    Last edited by timber; 01-02-2021 at 01:13 AM.

  2. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    They are power wresters from the 80s 90s, it goes with the territory. If you want Fe and Si look to Japanese game shows. Fe goes different places in beta -> gamma. As to Se realist? I'm getting an impression you think Se is more like Te to be honest. He is a guy trying to climb the ladder using the popular culture of power wrestling to his advantage. If you want to see a LSE doing powerwrestling look at Hulk Hogan, or LSE John Cena.
    Jung himself called the Se type a realist. I know Socionics differs from Jung, but not to the extent of completely redefining the elements. Regardless, I am not talking about Te types, and the mention of a single word isn't what defines my view of a type.

    I will let you know that I also disagree with the typings of your LSE examples.

    Its not type related and I never said that. I said IF a SLE is low IQ then they may come off as dumb. Like Randy's character. He would be ESFp over ESFj by a mile.
    No, he wouldn't. Randy is very clearly not Fi valuing.

    Again it goes with the territory. Plus the Rock doesn't have any of the same qualities as Randy. The Rock is somewhat intellectual, a cool, smooth operator.
    You think that SLE, a type with 3D valued Ti and 4D Te, is less likely to come off intellectual and smooth than ESE. Interesting.

    More Se then any other IE. Plus, chaotic power might be exactly what the situation calls for. Shows of strength is mostly what Se looks like. I mean that's like saying smiles, or frowns are not Fe. Or the systems of mathematic relations are not Ti. Its a non-sensical, non-starter. Like why even do socionics at this point of reduced vocabulary.
    Show of strength is not Se. Theatrical displays of dominance are part of the Fe sphere of influence. With Se, the sense of (will)power is implicit - taken for granted. When the emphasis is on the show, it is Fe.

    You must have never seen SLE as a attention seeking person, centre of the group antics, I invite you to watch for it now. Fe mobilizing, well ask a EII because they would tell you its insufferable. Anything for a laugh, or even just some kind of reaction. Be impressed by me goddamit, I'm I not funny!
    I have seen that sort of SLE. Randy is not alike.

    Okay yeah, if they are being a polite person in a polite society. But not in WWE? Like how is this point escaping you? I actually see Randy as holding back and being very conscientious in those interviews, kind even. Juxstapose to Hulk Hogan, or John Cena. They are totally different personas.
    I can assure you that this point hasn't escaped my consideration. Though I think you are over-valuing their differences.

    They are all two-dimensional characters. She just acts like a IEI in the complete package of that dyad. I think you need to see it more I guess.

    "Wow, ultra strong tough man is going to beat up our enemies, but act like a total gentlemen to me when I smile. Good thing he can't tell how fake my reactions are, one step from fear. Hopefully he keeps a lid on his impulses so nobody can tell how crazy he is." lol.
    Do you have an argument for Ni lead for her?

    Fe from a ESFj is totally different. Flattering guardians.

    Don't know if you want to think this is ESE-LII dyad, then just...
    Fe within ESE is dramatical and emotional performance (directing conversations and leaving an impact) backed by strong qualities of, and presence in, the material world. They very often display a strong mastery over their own body, but only as a secondary to the realm of people, where the ESE really 'lives'. Displays of power and of strength are seen in the male ESE especially, for it generates much arousal in others. Ne drives the ESE to express with wildly changing emotions and effects meant for shock and awe, differing here from EIE who tends towards a more singularly driven display. Ne puts the "chaotic" in ESE. The ESE puts an emphasis on the display of performance in athletics : indeed, the world of WWE is Fe-heaven. What use is strength if you can't inspire awe?

    SLE, by contrast, is a more sober realist who is much less invested in the climate of people. Their passion shows in lust for the moment, for acquisition and immersion. Careful and methodical strategy is used in service to the mastery of the moment, implying a high tactical opportunism. Fe within SLE is mainly used as a way to establish a good circle of people around them, with good cheer and atmosphere that allows the SLE to drive forward in the world without needing to worry much about relationships. The building of strength tends to come as a natural consequence from physical immersion in activities. The SLE puts an emphasis on mastery of the self and of the world in athletics: it's the difference between functional strength and bodybuilding, metaphorically speaking.

    Based on these very brief ideas of both types, I conclude that Randy Savage fits ESE extremely well.


  3. #1963

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    Okay. WWE is heaven for Fe for Alpha quadra.

    Whatever you say.

  4. #1964
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    Macho Man Randy Savage (real name Randy Poffo) brother Lanny

    The Genius Lanny Poffo - actual ESE




  6. #1966
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Haha, great story!

    Tony Hinchcliffe, the young comedian in that clip, is probably SLE. Thanks for sharing, it makes for a nice contrast between types.
    Edit: notice the massive difference in emotional performance in contrast to people like Randy.

    Last edited by Samson; 01-02-2021 at 02:05 AM.


  7. #1967
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Macho Man Randy Savage (real name Randy Poffo) brother Lanny

    The Genius Lanny Poffo - actual ESE



    There appears to be a confusion in quadras. Lanny Poffo is EIE.


  8. #1968

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    Randy was TWACKED on cocaine in most of those interviews. Doesn't your sensing know that? He's jumping out of his skin. His hands are extended. I guess that's Fe now.

    The only person doing block ego Fe is his gf. wtv, its the16types, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter.

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    Am I being trolled.

    Did you not listen to this man tell the story of how Randy Savage forced him to take a snake bite on threat of kicking his ass?

    Did you not just watch Lanny Poffo throw on the Beach Boys and make a show of laying in bed with an overhead flat screen TV and a massage recliner next to it?

    I'm not typing up the stories of how possessive they were of each other, him watching her like a hawk and keeping her literally locked in rooms (for both legitimate and crazy AF e6 roid rage & coke reasons), or her Se seeking accidental overdose within a few years of him not looking out for her. He was a highschool allstar athelete and Minor League Pro baseball player. He had a pro wrestler father who raised him to be a wrestler and a Fe Dom brother who taught him how to perform in front of the mic.(which he struggled with and had terrible anxiety about) He copied his "theatrics" from another wrestler named Pampero Firpo. He was drenched in 80s horse steroids roid rage & coke. Connect the dots.


    As for Lanny Poffo, YouTube the man. He can't go 30 seconds without launching into some tortuously detailed play-by-play of what happened on some day 20 years ago and what he was feeling at the time. But at least we can agree he's Fe Dom, so there's that at least.
    Last edited by inaLim; 01-02-2021 at 03:55 AM.

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    This is an EIE

    Matt Hardy


  11. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Randy was TWACKED on cocaine in most of those interviews. Doesn't your sensing know that? He's jumping out of his skin. His hands are extended. I guess that's Fe now.

    The only person doing block ego Fe is his gf. wtv, its the16types, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter.
    Strawman argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Am I being trolled.
    Strong opener.

    Did you not listen to this man tell the story of how Randy Savage forced him to take a snake bite on threat of kicking his ass?
    I did. Did you have an argument somewhere that I missed?

    Did you not just watch Lanny Poffo throw on the Beach Boys and make a show of laying in bed with an overhead flat screen TV and a massage recliner next to it?
    Did you not just make an argument? Oh, you didn't. You just posted youtube clips and expect others to read your mind.

    I'm not typing up the stories of how possessive they were of each other, him watching her like a hawk and keeping her literally locked in rooms (for both legitimate and crazy AF e6 roid rage & coke reasons), or her Se seeking accidental overdose within a few years of him not looking out for her. He was a highschool allstar athelete and Minor League Pro baseball player. He had a pro wrestler father who raised him to be a wrestler and a Fe Dom brother who taught him how to perform in front of the mic.(which he struggled with and had terrible anxiety about) He copied his "theatrics" from another wrestler named Pampero Firpo. He was drenched in 80s horse steroids roid rage & coke. Connect the dots.
    "Connect the dots?" My man, I will not make your case for you. If you can't explain your typings, that is on you.

    As for Lanny Poffo, YouTube the man. He can't go 30 seconds without launching into some tortuously detailed play-by-play of what happened on some day 20 years ago and what he was feeling at the time. But at least we can agree he's Fe Dom, so there's that at least.
    Great conversation.


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    Charles Bronson - LSI


  13. #1973

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    Quote Originally Posted by dead account View Post
    Charles Bronson - LSI

    Absolutely, same type as my close coworker David this year. Bronson must be a hard leaning Se sub type though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    Strawman argument.

    I'm cool with straw man as subjectivity is a central part of socionics.

    I think not knowing the difference between ESFj and ESTp in context of quadra values is a central misunderstanding of the theory. Randy doesn't dualize with INTj, he doesn't have illusionary with INFj. He is not activated by ENTp. He doesn't conflict with INTp. I mean he is obviously trying to impress with his Se. Which is why his gf is so drawn to him. He's powerful and strong and needs a bit of tender loving attention to feel at home in the Fe. This must be a blind area for you and that's okay. I used to see things differently until I chatted for hours with two SLE from this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Am I being trolled.

    Did you not listen to this man tell the story of how Randy Savage forced him to take a snake bite on threat of kicking his ass?


    I'm not typing up the stories of how possessive they were of each other, him watching her like a hawk and keeping her literally locked in rooms (for both legitimate and crazy AF e6 roid rage & coke reasons), or her Se seeking accidental overdose within a few years of him not looking out for her. He was a highschool allstar athelete and Minor League Pro baseball player. He had a pro wrestler father who raised him to be a wrestler and a Fe Dom brother who taught him how to perform in front of the mic.(which he struggled with and had terrible anxiety about) He copied his "theatrics" from another wrestler named Pampero Firpo. He was drenched in 80s horse steroids roid rage & coke. Connect the dots.
    Exactly. The writing is on the wall here. This is the beta irrational dyad. One part insane antics and one part struggling lovers. Even the way she looks at him during his cringy Fe gives him stability.

  16. #1976
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    @Samson I did legitimately think you were trolling (or Fe ignoring ESI, but I made a resolution to try not to battle type or be a dick in 2021). Now I think we just have different foundations.

    Your take suggests you're typing from a completely different idea of what the types are. I'm using Ausra, Jung, and bits of Strat/Gulenko where they match reality. If youre using https://cognitivetype.com/ we may just have to agree to disagree on what the types are.

    Most people on this site are using Ausra, Gulenko, Strat, etc. so I am not inclined to spell all this out on every post. Anyone familiar with aggressor (Se) vs caregiver (Si) interaction styles can sort out on sight which behaviors are being shown or talked about.

    The Jake the Snake video tells the story of an aggressor.
    The Lanny Poffo video shows a caregiver

    Randy Savage wanted real proof (reality) that the snake was not poisonous. He came to Jake to bring the situation to a head directly, aggressively and insistent, not through gradual emotional coaxing or crowd appeal (Fe). Not satisfied with seeing the Snake bite Jake, he made him sit and wait with him for further real proof (reality) that Jake didnt have an antiote. Savage went straight to the source and forced the situation to reveal what was real, right then and there.(Se) You could also interpret this as inferior Ni paranoia.

    What the hell, its a New Year, and apparently I've got nothing better to do on lockdown than research 80s wrestlers.

    2D Fe is normative ethics. Easy to say, but wtf does it mean in Socionics?

    Normative ethics in Socionics means takes its norms from the environment. The environment in this case is 1980s professional wrestling.


    First we have to account for

    - Acting career
    - Anabolic steroid use
    - Cocaine use
    - Caffeine in massive quantities (he would drink a whole pot before promos and matches)

    are all capable of changing normal "Fe" behavior and appearance beyond what is expected of a type.

    And on this next part maybe we agree to disagree: Whatever fixed principles or objective standards you use need to keep up with the changes in context. And this context is too abnormal to not consider it. Even if you're using VI alone, the hormones he was taking radically changed his facial and body structure.

    What you're seeing IMO is 2D Fe, not 4D Fe

    First Source of Norms:
    Culture - Pro wrestling itself is literally theater. They are traveling actors. They wear loud colors, wild outfits, and act crazy. He must be visually theatrical as a basic part of the job.

    Second Source of Norms:
    Role - His character is a villain. His job is to generate hate from the crowd. His gimmick is half macho bully, half crazy savage. He must be theatrical in this particular way of behaving, for his character to work.

    Third Source of Norms:
    Peers - He is a pro wrestler. It is the 1980s. He wants to be the #1 megastar in pro wrestling. Megastars at the time were on ridiculous doses of anabolic steroids (manic aggression aka roid rage) and/or cocaine(stimulant agitant) Hence the generation of jittery microphone yellers. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Ultimate Warrior, etc. He must be theatrical in energy if he wants to be a megastar and bring in ticket sales.

    Fourth Source of Norms:
    Personal Instruction/Direct Mimicry - His father was a pro wrestler (actor) and raised him to be a pro wrestler (actor). He was originally bad at acting on the mic. His brother Lanny Poffo had to teach him how to express himself. He copied the savage theatrics from a 70s wrestler named Pampero Firpo. He cannot work a mic at that level without the gimmick.

    These are simply the norms of that context. You don't need to be Fe dominant to yell and spaz out, and the suitcases of money he was making were enough incentive.

    Compare his Fe to his peers.

    2D Fe - Randy Savage swings between 2 notes with his voice: deep gravelly, and manic strained. 2 volumes: shout and shouted whisper. 2 speeds: slow drawl and freight train.

    4D Fe - Lanny Poffo and Matt Hardy both have way more subtlety and texture to their voices and expressions. They can coax out expressions with far more finesse. In other words, their pallette of emotional colors is broader. They have more keys or more strings to play, so they can hit way higher and lower notes. Some people may be functionally blind to Fe, like some people are colorblind, I don't know how else to make anyone see it than to post comparisons. Lanny carves out a niche reading poetry in a nursery rhyme voice and prancing around. He can be silly and make the crowd laugh, he can flirt with his body language, he can play "gay terrified" in-ring. (Savage without Elizabeth can only do aggression, anger, pain, and pause for effect with wide eyes.) Hardy has some kind of multiple personality gimmick street preacher/revolutionary persona who psychoanalyzes himself and gives demagogue speeches that seem to be building towards some epic. (Savage can't emote expressively and tell a cohesive narrative at the same time. Its just irrational barbs around a general theme, reacting to what's happening in the room, and playing off whatever he just said - Se)

    If I were to break down 4D Fe as before, obviously they're in the same business environment, so they need to employ theatrics. But that's where the similarities end. Both Poffo and Hardy brought in uncopied, if not original gimmicks. Neither needed help working the mic or coming up with their character's expressions and behavior. Im not sure if Poffo's character pushed sexual boundaries, but he definitely got away with being unusually effeminate for the time. Hardy is attempting to bring far more psychological depth to a character than probably anyone has tried in wrestling. In terms of Fe, they are beyond the norms of their time, in character concept, presentation, and expressiveness (ie. more than just grunting on the mic doing a slightly modified version of some wrestler a generation earlier). Randy is just a more aggressive version of the same. 4D Fe vs 2D Fe.


    They have to improvise these characters live 200 nights a year, and make the crowd believe its real. And the characters that are most believable, are just exaggerated versions of the real person playing them. Randy Savage is a mishmash of 2 archetypes, macho bully + barbarian savage, with the volume dialed up to 11. (If its not clear, these are stereotypes of bad Se) The gimmick works because Elizabeth is on his arm. When he is a villain, he is the rough domineering boyfriend mistreating this sweet innocent girl. When he is an anti-hero, she is there to make him human and relatable. The crowd is made to feel there must be something good in him, if she can love him. And if not, they can still feel protective of her. And most important, she could bring the crowd to standing ovations both leaving and going back to this psycho character. This really is not LII at all. Improv emotional manipulation of a stadium of people too much stress on a 1D Fe. Reacting with the perfect emotional expression on the fly during a live improvised promo with a raving lunatic character is not LII 1D Fe.

    Elizabeth enabled Savage to believably flip back and forth between hero and villain and back again, and not lose his fanbase. The onscreen relationship paralleled their off-screen marriage. In real life, he was crazy possessive of her, and she was crazy possessive of him. Friends describe them as intense. He had her locked up in like a bird in a cage, and she had him wrapped around her little finger. Mike Tyson was another guy like this. (If its not clear, these are stereotypes of "dark" push-pull NiFe victim behavior and Beta romanticism, not LII-ESE.).

    All this is irrelevant if we're on different systems though.

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    EIE (Chris Heria is an ESI)

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    @Samson I did legitimately think you were trolling (or Fe ignoring ESI, but I made a resolution to try not to battle type or be a dick in 2021). Now I think we just have different foundations.

    Your take suggests you're typing from a completely different idea of what the types are. I'm using Ausra, Jung, and bits of Strat/Gulenko where they match reality. If youre using https://cognitivetype.com/ we may just have to agree to disagree on what the types are.

    Most people on this site are using Ausra, Gulenko, Strat, etc. so I am not inclined to spell all this out on every post. Anyone familiar with aggressor (Se) vs caregiver (Si) interaction styles can sort out on sight which behaviors are being shown or talked about.

    The Jake the Snake video tells the story of an aggressor.
    The Lanny Poffo video shows a caregiver

    Randy Savage wanted real proof (reality) that the snake was not poisonous. He came to Jake to bring the situation to a head directly, aggressively and insistent, not through gradual emotional coaxing or crowd appeal (Fe). Not satisfied with seeing the Snake bite Jake, he made him sit and wait with him for further real proof (reality) that Jake didnt have an antiote. Savage went straight to the source and forced the situation to reveal what was real, right then and there.(Se) You could also interpret this as inferior Ni paranoia.

    What the hell, its a New Year, and apparently I've got nothing better to do on lockdown than research 80s wrestlers.

    2D Fe is normative ethics. Easy to say, but wtf does it mean in Socionics?

    Normative ethics in Socionics means takes its norms from the environment. The environment in this case is 1980s professional wrestling.


    First we have to account for

    - Acting career
    - Anabolic steroid use
    - Cocaine use
    - Caffeine in massive quantities (he would drink a whole pot before promos and matches)

    are all capable of changing normal "Fe" behavior and appearance beyond what is expected of a type.

    And on this next part maybe we agree to disagree: Whatever fixed principles or objective standards you use need to keep up with the changes in context. And this context is too abnormal to not consider it. Even if you're using VI alone, the hormones he was taking radically changed his facial and body structure.

    What you're seeing IMO is 2D Fe, not 4D Fe

    First Source of Norms:
    Culture - Pro wrestling itself is literally theater. They are traveling actors. They wear loud colors, wild outfits, and act crazy. He must be visually theatrical as a basic part of the job.

    Second Source of Norms:
    Role - His character is a villain. His job is to generate hate from the crowd. His gimmick is half macho bully, half crazy savage. He must be theatrical in this particular way of behaving, for his character to work.

    Third Source of Norms:
    Peers - He is a pro wrestler. It is the 1980s. He wants to be the #1 megastar in pro wrestling. Megastars at the time were on ridiculous doses of anabolic steroids (manic aggression aka roid rage) and/or cocaine(stimulant agitant) Hence the generation of jittery microphone yellers. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Ultimate Warrior, etc. He must be theatrical in energy if he wants to be a megastar and bring in ticket sales.

    Fourth Source of Norms:
    Personal Instruction/Direct Mimicry - His father was a pro wrestler (actor) and raised him to be a pro wrestler (actor). He was originally bad at acting on the mic. His brother Lanny Poffo had to teach him how to express himself. He copied the savage theatrics from a 70s wrestler named Pampero Firpo. He cannot work a mic at that level without the gimmick.

    These are simply the norms of that context. You don't need to be Fe dominant to yell and spaz out, and the suitcases of money he was making were enough incentive.

    Compare his Fe to his peers.

    2D Fe - Randy Savage swings between 2 notes with his voice: deep gravelly, and manic strained. 2 volumes: shout and shouted whisper. 2 speeds: slow drawl and freight train.

    4D Fe - Lanny Poffo and Matt Hardy both have way more subtlety and texture to their voices and expressions. They can coax out expressions with far more finesse. In other words, their pallette of emotional colors is broader. They have more keys or more strings to play, so they can hit way higher and lower notes. Some people may be functionally blind to Fe, like some people are colorblind, I don't know how else to make anyone see it than to post comparisons. Lanny carves out a niche reading poetry in a nursery rhyme voice and prancing around. He can be silly and make the crowd laugh, he can flirt with his body language, he can play "gay terrified" in-ring. (Savage without Elizabeth can only do aggression, anger, pain, and pause for effect with wide eyes.) Hardy has some kind of multiple personality gimmick street preacher/revolutionary persona who psychoanalyzes himself and gives demagogue speeches that seem to be building towards some epic. (Savage can't emote expressively and tell a cohesive narrative at the same time. Its just irrational barbs around a general theme, reacting to what's happening in the room, and playing off whatever he just said - Se)

    If I were to break down 4D Fe as before, obviously they're in the same business environment, so they need to employ theatrics. But that's where the similarities end. Both Poffo and Hardy brought in uncopied, if not original gimmicks. Neither needed help working the mic or coming up with their character's expressions and behavior. Im not sure if Poffo's character pushed sexual boundaries, but he definitely got away with being unusually effeminate for the time. Hardy is attempting to bring far more psychological depth to a character than probably anyone has tried in wrestling. In terms of Fe, they are beyond the norms of their time, in character concept, presentation, and expressiveness (ie. more than just grunting on the mic doing a slightly modified version of some wrestler a generation earlier). Randy is just a more aggressive version of the same. 4D Fe vs 2D Fe.


    They have to improvise these characters live 200 nights a year, and make the crowd believe its real. And the characters that are most believable, are just exaggerated versions of the real person playing them. Randy Savage is a mishmash of 2 archetypes, macho bully + barbarian savage, with the volume dialed up to 11. (If its not clear, these are stereotypes of bad Se) The gimmick works because Elizabeth is on his arm. When he is a villain, he is the rough domineering boyfriend mistreating this sweet innocent girl. When he is an anti-hero, she is there to make him human and relatable. The crowd is made to feel there must be something good in him, if she can love him. And if not, they can still feel protective of her. And most important, she could bring the crowd to standing ovations both leaving and going back to this psycho character. This really is not LII at all. Improv emotional manipulation of a stadium of people too much stress on a 1D Fe. Reacting with the perfect emotional expression on the fly during a live improvised promo with a raving lunatic character is not LII 1D Fe.

    Elizabeth enabled Savage to believably flip back and forth between hero and villain and back again, and not lose his fanbase. The onscreen relationship paralleled their off-screen marriage. In real life, he was crazy possessive of her, and she was crazy possessive of him. Friends describe them as intense. He had her locked up in like a bird in a cage, and she had him wrapped around her little finger. Mike Tyson was another guy like this. (If its not clear, these are stereotypes of "dark" push-pull NiFe victim behavior and Beta romanticism, not LII-ESE.).

    All this is irrelevant if we're on different systems though.
    Clap clap clap. All the effort researching power wrestlers paid off. Some high quality explanations here. Everything I said but with more details and much more. Sorry not trying to sound condescending, I wanted to compliment your post because it was so good.

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    @inaLim

    The basis of my typings lie in Socionics, I am sure you will see this when you take note of my argument in the posts before yours. Consider, if you will, that your misreadings of my posts ("trolling") may tell you more about yourself and your own foundations, than it does about me or mine. Notice, for example, that you employed VI in your argument whereas I did not.
    Perhaps you think it gracious not to "battle-type" me, yet I am left wondering why you believe it is relevant to mention this at all when writing up a case about a celeb's typing. Am I supposed to feel grateful? Did I touch on an insecurity of yours? I am not interested in knowing the answers. I think we can all benefit from looking into what it is like to have "good-faith" arguments. It will strengthen argumentative power.

    It is in the nature of threads like these for type cases to be challenged. You will likely find more challenges in the future, if you decide to post more typings. If someone challenges a typing, it is not (usually) meant as a personal attack. Both parties can make their case (respectfully), and even when things get heated (which if okay - this is still not 'trolling'), as long as things don't get unnecessarily personal, all parties can walk away smarter.

    Of course, challenge and argument can be a delicate matter. I have been wondering lately if it's just the climate of this specific forum, as I do not run into these types of issues in other places nearly as much (rarely if ever, whereas here it is ubiquitous). Impulsive emotionality seems to be encouraged, rather than rational behavior. I take this interaction as emblematic of larger problems of this platform.

    I am glad that you found the time to write up your case for these typings. I am sure others will be helped by your write-up, as it is a good stand-alone case. I must disappoint, for I will not respond further on Randy's type. I responded to timber's objections initially because, even though their posts were disrespectful, they did not immediately resort to direct name-calling. My patience soon ran out, however, and at this point I consider it a 'win' against timber if only for their unwillingness to be civil. Your case is more challenging, I admit, but I hope you understand that these interactions here have left a bad taste in my mouth. If your response had been the only one of such nature, I might have continued the conversation. But seeing that this incident is one of many of similar immature nature on 16types, I will meditate on whether I can justify my presence here at all - or if, perhaps, a different approach might be the solution.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson
    Bunch of whining about the forum without touching the actual argument
    Don’t let the door hit your candy ass on your way out, ”LSI”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Don’t let the door hit your candy ass on your way out, ”LSI”
    I hit a nerve, I see. Sadly, you confirm my statement. Though it amuses me that you felt called out by my post.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    I hit a nerve, I see. Sadly, you confirm my statement. Though it amuses me that you felt called out by my post.
    Yeah a direct hit on the funny bone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post

    I am glad that you found the time to write up your case for these typings. I am sure others will be helped by your write-up, as it is a good stand-alone case. I must disappoint, for I will not respond further on Randy's type. I responded to timber's objections initially because, even though their posts were disrespectful, they did not immediately resort to direct name-calling. My patience soon ran out, however, and at this point I consider it a 'win' against timber if only for their unwillingness to be civil. Your case is more challenging, I admit, but I hope you understand that these interactions here have left a bad taste in my mouth. If your response had been the only one of such nature, I might have continued the conversation. But seeing that this incident is one of many of similar immature nature on 16types, I will meditate on whether I can justify my presence here at all - or if, perhaps, a different approach might be the solution.
    I'm sorry.

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    "Battle Typing" is a joke term I first picked from an Adam Strange post about tendencies of high Se/aristocrats, relax. Your type and/or system were relevant because for various reasons, I had to decide whether it made more sense to respond with a more Ti or Te approach. I chose the latter, and if I were to explain why, I'm sure you would take that as a personal attack too.

    I have no issue with you, but I am not interested in walking on eggshells in the Beta subforum to spare the taste in your mouth. Block whoever you have issues with, meditate, leave, I don't see why you're telling me all this. You are the common denominator in all your issues with the forum. I've been having a good time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    I had to decide whether it made more sense to respond with a more Ti or Te approach. I chose the latter, and if I were to explain why, I'm sure you would take that as a personal attack too.
    The phrase battle typing has been used here since before 2009.

    If you had the inclination, would you try to respond with a more Ti approach now? Would be cool to see the comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    "Battle Typing" is a joke term I first picked from an Adam Strange post about tendencies of high Se/aristocrats,
    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    The phrase battle typing has been used here since before 2009.
    Yes, I first heard the term from someone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    This is an EIE

    Matt Hardy

    Idk, pro wrestling is cringe and fake imo. Beats me why ppl enjoy it.

    yeah EIEs are annoying to be around if this is EIE.. drama and dramatic ppl are cringe af, esp IF the person is being disingenuous. I avoid it like the plague tbh, at a certain point it's beyond uncomfortable and practically drives me to step up the Se to shut it down by physical force if need be.



    Prefer ppl like Ewan McGregor:

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 01-06-2021 at 07:44 AM.
    - LSI-H™ - Melancholic - 6w5-8-4 So/Sx - MBTI ISTP - Guardian Inspector ISTJ -

    The way is dark, the road is lost, my eyes they strain to see
    I struggle forth to find a friend to light the way for me
    Oh brothers can you hear my voice or am I all alone
    If there’s no fire to guide my way, then I will start my own!


  28. #1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Idk, pro wrestling is cringe and fake imo. Beats me why ppl enjoy it.

    yeah EIEs are annoying to be around if this is EIE.. drama and dramatic ppl are cringe af, esp IF the person is being disingenuous. I avoid it like the plague tbh, at a certain point it's beyond uncomfortable and practically drives me to step up the Se to shut it down by physical force if need be.



    Prefer ppl like Ewan McGregor:

    Compare apples to apples.

    Ewan McGregor overacting in a trashy movie vs Matt Hardy overacting on a trashy wrestling promo




    Ewan McGregor out of character vs Matt Hardy out of character



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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Yes, I first heard the term from someone else.
    Would still be into reading a Ti description of why Randy is SLE.

  30. #1990
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Would still be into reading a Ti description of why Randy is SLE.
    If we both can recognize Se & Fe Beta vibes on sight, it would go something like this:

    - He is clearly an extrovert aggressor
    - Elizabeth is clearly 3D Fe ego or more
    - Archetype of brash conqueror and ultrafeminine doe eyed diplomat fits

    Blah blah therefore they are SLE/SEE & IEI

    This is based on implied understanding that stock archetypes aren't true enough to force people into boxes, but can be useful in the right case. I tend to use this among perceivers and less rigid rationals. Don't want people running with it and typing every "dreamy and poetic" chick IEI.

    If they can't distinguish Beta vibes, but we're using the same foundations it would go something like this:

    [Imagine Multiple Youtube Videos Here]

    - Borrow or create a definition of Se vs Si. @[Insert Time] pay attention for Se words vs Si words. He talks about his desire for impact, minor league baseball career, competitiveness etc -> Se

    - Describe romance styles, aggressor / victim vs caregiver / child-like; Beta vs Gamma. @[Insert Time] People talk about their mutual posessiveness, outward intensity, devotion, coarseness etc etc -> Beta aggressor

    - Borrow or create a definition of T vs F. @[Insert Time], people describe him as hard to know, loner, direct, no bullshit, etc etc -> weak F

    Blah blah, therefore he is SLE

    This can get circular if you start having to debate/negotiate definitions. And a waste of time if you're dealing with a rational type who won't come off their "wrong" outsider archetypes of SLE/IEI or stereotype of Se/Fe etc.


    Third option, is to deconstruct the person/group's definitions, argument, model, even belief system. I did a light version of this in the Trump thread. This is a last resort with most people, 2nd option with ExTx I think won't take it the wrong way.


    Fourth option, come up with an alternate model or theory. I don't have the inclination, attention span, or suspension of disbelief for that.
    Last edited by inaLim; 01-06-2021 at 11:30 PM.

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    That is just structuring arguments after the fact though, which anyone can do. Ti in use would be how you break observations, interactions, experiences, situations, ideas, down to their unchanging elements and relate them to each other. End result being very fast recognition of familiar elements in unfamiliar or rapidly changing situations. Ti used by other types would be different, depending on the type of perception, rationality, valued/unvalued, etc.

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    JOEL MILLER LSI 6w5



    William Foster LSI 6w5

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 01-08-2021 at 08:22 AM.
    - LSI-H™ - Melancholic - 6w5-8-4 So/Sx - MBTI ISTP - Guardian Inspector ISTJ -

    The way is dark, the road is lost, my eyes they strain to see
    I struggle forth to find a friend to light the way for me
    Oh brothers can you hear my voice or am I all alone
    If there’s no fire to guide my way, then I will start my own!


  33. #1993
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    EIE - Corpses that changed my life
    Uncertified public verbal executioner of ESI. Tickets will be available soon.
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    EIE - Corpses that changed my life
    lol I thought you were joking

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    chess got a bit boring. now I'm learning how to dance with an EIE.

    some other EIE channels

    https://www.youtube.com/c/Ihascupquakeplus/videos

    https://www.youtube.com/c/Valkyrae1/featured

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Zaniac 007 View Post
    EIE - Corpses that changed my life










    Alexis Krauss - EIE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmFgejWZjtg

    (this is her best song)

  37. #1997
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    Torres (MacKenzie Scott)-- LSI




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    Tywin Lanister LSI-D

    - LSI-H™ - Melancholic - 6w5-8-4 So/Sx - MBTI ISTP - Guardian Inspector ISTJ -

    The way is dark, the road is lost, my eyes they strain to see
    I struggle forth to find a friend to light the way for me
    Oh brothers can you hear my voice or am I all alone
    If there’s no fire to guide my way, then I will start my own!


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    Robin Gibb: EIE

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