Socionics Beta types Examples

[Rusal]

IDK, Jim Wendler seems serious like a logical type and IJ temperament. He is probably an LII influenced by an close-by Se valuing type. Now that we know how it really is.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I would type him IEI. He developed feelings for the team he coached and thinks in a strategic way. makes me aware that Mark Rippetoe likely also has this type.

[Rusal]

I would type him IEI. He developed feelings for the team he coached and thinks in a strategic way. makes me aware that Mark Rippetoe likely also has this type.

Well, since sensors are the ones that live ‘for the day’ (you dixit) and LII is still intuitive I don't see why they can't be strategic, besides you admitted they are open to IEI'S influence about Se and can magically overrun their vulnerable function for some reason, I have a good argumentative case for this rather quiet, ‘non-charming’ in the Fe creative sense man to be a logical type.

But I'd still rather not type like you: If I were to take what you say to have a potent connection to reality I'd castrate my common sense and end up thinking my ESE-C acquaintance I just alluded to in some other thread is not an obvious Ni polr/Si creative extrovert but a Ni lead because she's obsessed with sparkly girly anime and Japanese/Korean culture because, hello, higher Ne and indifference and even aversion to Normalizing society attracts her to non-serious things and makes her divergent from traditional sets of behavior and rules. But I like not having my reasoning powers impaired.

[Northstar]

Seems introverted, intuitive (questions how things were done in the past, introduces novel solutions), idealistc, thinks in a strategic way. Looks somewhat similar to @Northstar

https://cppscoaches.com/wp-content/u...im-wendler.jpg

The Alive definition of intuitive is basically "being intelligent" which is very close to the classic MBTI definition I guess. As it is, there's no downside of being intuitive, it just means you have markedly above average intelligence. Which may in fact be true to a point, there's no requirement of being physically clumsy and weak, bad at using your hands for work, unable to make practical decisions in the moment etc. It's just that either you have more intelligence or less intelligence. You only need to take a look at the comments section of a news article and you'll see how simple-minded and childishly stupid the majority of the commenters are. And I'm not talking about some abstract political points, it's just understanding things like relative scales and basic engineering science. While education in itself isn't really the main point, often those with really low intelligence remain on the unskilled service job level where you can be trained into doing your work in a couple of weeks. This would make them 'sensors' in Alive's dichotomy.

That being said, my opinion is that there is no "sensing" and "intuition" dichotomy that is meaningful, there are many facets and one facet is intelligence that usually gets confused with sensing/intuition (though not in classic socionics that kind if fetishizes sensing, MBTI is the opposite). Intelligence can be confused with logic/ethics too, but in Alive's world that's more related to being autistic and schizo or not.

The real world is not like a role-playing game where at birth you assign your points from a pool, so that more intelligence ("intuition") means that you can assign less points into things like motor skills ("sensing"). You can have both and be "intuitive" that has no drawbacks, or you can end up with the short stick of being a "sensing" type that's clumsy and stupid.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Sensing means you are constantly aware of reality all of the time, focusing mainly on immediate results. Intuition means you are going to have a long-term, strategic mindset. I never ever mentioned sensing types are stupid, that's what you guys say when you think everyone has to be a planner. I just look at jim wendler and see that he doesn't have an extroverted temperament, and I don't think that every IEI on earth is a daydreaming poet that lies in bed all day. When you sit in front of a project and carefully plan your approach and contemplate every eventuality that's going to be problematic and you imagine these scenarios in your head you are intuitive.

[Northstar]

Sensing means you are constantly aware of reality all of the time, focusing mainly on immediate results. Intuition means you are going to have a long-term, strategic mindset. I never ever mentioned sensing types are stupid, that's what you guys say when you think everyone has to be a planner. I just look at jim wendler and see that he doesn't have an extroverted temperament, and I don't think that every IEI on earth is a daydreaming poet that lies in bed all day. When you sit in front of a project and carefully plan your approach and contemplate every eventuality that's going to be problematic and you imagine these scenarios in your head you are intuitive.

That's just not how people work. That's a false dichotomy, you can think about eventualities and still be aware of reality. Being aware of your physical senses does not preclude the ability to think strategically and delay gratification or vice versa. Intelligent people think more longer-term but it doesn't mean they lack situational awareness of reality, live in idealized delusions or can't be impatient and act in the moment without being paralyzed by overanalyzing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification is related to willpower but generally socionics tries to pin willpower to "extroverted sensing".

[on a peaceful hiatus]

That's just not how people work. That's a false dichotomy, you can think about eventualities and still be aware of reality. Being aware of your physical senses does not preclude the ability to think strategically and delay gratification or vice versa. Intelligent people think more longer-term but it doesn't mean they lack situational awareness of reality, live in idealized delusions or can't be impatient and act in the moment without being paralyzed by overanalyzing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification is related to willpower but generally socionics tries to pin willpower to "extroverted sensing".

I think the problem is that the functions just have a very narrow definition that simply cannot be applied to 8 billion people, as there are only 8. Willpower is such a case where I find the definition just very problematic as I think it is heavily idealized. you just have to look at america for that, as over 40% of americans are obese, and 73,6% are overweight

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

and I don't associate this with high willpower, and I also don't think that all people that aren't obese are aggressor types. I have Se as weakest function and I can force myself to exercise 5 times a week, and I have done it long enough now that it is just natural to me and I feel frustrated when I can't train. what I do notice about me though is that I barely pay attention to reality, how people dress, details of my environment, my own 'status' within any given group, how the opposite sex perceives me and so on, so Se to me is not willpower but rather a desire for concrete interactions with the world, even if they are pointless in the grand scheme of things. there's also just objective factors to reality that are completely unrelated to your type that determine how energetic you are, like testosterone levels. an IEI with high test levels will not be a scrawny leftist intellectual with low test levels for example. people can have the same type in socionics yet differentiate in very significant objective traits

[on a peaceful hiatus]

IEI

[on a peaceful hiatus]

IEI

I need a normalizing subtype to catalogue pictures of all these youtubers because they all have the same type. We would have a VI gallery in no time. maybe I'm just gonna do that anyway while I'm at work.

like wengie looks somewhat like this girl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knv0_sYJFlI

who then looks like this girl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQTk4eK2fP4

who looks a little this person

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yA_0H3fJo

who looks like this girl

https://youtu.be/6dGbn2MOEX8

another person that fits into this VI category

[nifl]

Joni (Passion Planner) - mb
IEE the next most possible version

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Lionel Messi - IEI-H

[timber]

That's just not how people work. That's a false dichotomy, you can think about eventualities and still be aware of reality. Being aware of your physical senses does not preclude the ability to think strategically and delay gratification or vice versa. Intelligent people think more longer-term but it doesn't mean they lack situational awareness of reality, live in idealized delusions or can't be impatient and act in the moment without being paralyzed by overanalyzing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification is related to willpower but generally socionics tries to pin willpower to "extroverted sensing".

I just spent 30 grand and in part that money went towards learning how to Te think through every eventuality. Every danger, hazard, staged plan, forward thinking discussions, every "if then that". In other words "carefully plan every eventuality" ect. All under the purview of Te, with some Se.

Alive doesn't know what Ni is.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I just spent 30 grand and in part that money went towards learning how to Te think through every eventuality. Every danger, hazard, staged plan, forward thinking discussions, every "if then that". In other words "carefully plan every eventuality" ect. All under the purview of Te, with some Se.

Alive doesn't know what Ni is.

You are literally describing Ni. That is literally the definition, careful planning

[timber]

You are literally describing Ni. That is literally the definition, careful planning

I keep remembering you are still in socionics grade school.

A is for Apple.
B is for banana.
C is for Cat.

Careful planning in regards to what ? People, where to buy something? What's the plan tomorrow? Where society is going?

Details matter and I find odd, you being a logics of relations base type I have to tell you that.

Careful planning could represent any number of IEs and in any number of function locations.

If careful planning was such a strong point of let's say base type NiFe, then why are we not seeing a predominantly INFp run engineering industry? I mean as you say it's their strong suit so. I mean I'm assuming a INFp planned the James Webb Telescope and launch, seeing how their Ni is so useful here.

What are they planning? A vacation? A party? One's life path? The route home? A construction project? A marriage? Refinancing a mortgage? Dinner? Crop rotations?

Details and context are important.

And where might strategy, tactical, or results, process, decisive, judicious dichotomies fit here?

Careful planning is not Ni. If it was, then all the people who carefully plan would be base Ni (as per your own theory, which you continually contradict, another odd trait of LII, but Ne is irrational like that).

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I keep remembering you are still in socionics grade school.

A is for Apple.
B is for banana.
C is for Cat.

Careful planning in regards to what ? People, where to buy something? What's the plan tomorrow? Where society is going?

Details matter and I find odd, you being a logics of relations base type I have to tell you that.

Careful planning could represent any number of IEs and in any number of function locations.

If careful planning was such a strong point of let's say base type NiFe, then why are we not seeing a predominantly INFp run engineering industry? I mean as you say it's their strong suit so. I mean I'm assuming a INFp planned the James Webb Telescope and launch, seeing how their Ni is so useful here.

What are they planning? A vacation? A party? One's life path? The route home? A construction project? A marriage? Refinancing a mortgage? Dinner? Crop rotations?

Details and context are important.

And where might strategy, tactical, or results, process, decisive, judicious dichotomies fit here?

Careful planning is not Ni. If it was, then all the people who carefully plan would be base Ni (as per your own theory, which you continually contradict, another odd trait of LII, but Ne is irrational like that).

I literally mentioned in chat a couple of days ago that engineering is Ni.

This perceptual element defines a person's ability or inability to forecast and plan for the future, evade all sorts of troubles, avoid taking wrong actions, and learn from past experience.
Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how their life will develop in the future.

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index....rted_intuition

Ni is the architect function. Literally plans everything while sensing types build it.

[timber]

I literally mentioned in chat a couple of days ago that engineering is Ni.

This perceptual element defines a person's ability or inability to forecast and plan for the future, evade all sorts of troubles, avoid taking wrong actions, and learn from past experience.
Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how their life will develop in the future.

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index....rted_intuition

Ni is the architect function. Literally plans everything while sensing types build it.

I'm seeing your mistake now. You have Ne people confused for Ni. It's Ne that imagined what Si should build. (Also this pairing exists within individual people, especially as they age).

Se - Ni is more about which direction, not which construction.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I'm seeing your mistake now. You have Ne people confused for Ni. It's Ne that creates what Si should build. (Also this pairing exists within individual people, especially as they age).

I mean let's just agree to disagree. I cannot follow your thought processes and your definitions of functions seem to be completely at odds with socionics literature.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

why Messi has Intuition of Time

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b6qBbLxP53s

[Rusal]

I think the problem is that the functions just have a very narrow definition that simply cannot be applied to 8 billion people, as there are only 8. Willpower is such a case where I find the definition just very problematic as I think it is heavily idealized. you just have to look at america for that, as over 40% of americans are obese, and 73,6% are overweight

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

and I don't associate this with high willpower, and I also don't think that all people that aren't obese are aggressor types. I have Se as weakest function and I can force myself to exercise 5 times a week, and I have done it long enough now that it is just natural to me and I feel frustrated when I can't train. what I do notice about me though is that I barely pay attention to reality, how people dress, details of my environment, my own 'status' within any given group, how the opposite sex perceives me and so on, so Se to me is not willpower but rather a desire for concrete interactions with the world, even if they are pointless in the grand scheme of things. there's also just objective factors to reality that are completely unrelated to your type that determine how energetic you are, like testosterone levels. an IEI with high test levels will not be a scrawny leftist intellectual with low test levels for example. people can have the same type in socionics yet differentiate in very significant objective traits

The idea of Gulenko as an IEI and defended by you as LII should cast a doubt on your premise that Ni is all there is to ‘depth’ in a field of study or maintaining the same interest over decades. That there are no other factors whatsoever involved that masquerade as some already doubtful description of Ni. With that in mind, Ni is not depth and intensity of interest per se.

The same goes for strategizing. It will appear more powerfully on the strong side of a type and it has less to do with Ni than you think. I have an SLI stepfather. Some years ago he set up an antiques and second-hand items store. Before he opened for business it was interesting to visit him at his workshop and listen to him: what would sell well and why and what not, even if 2 items were similar items in my eyes or had similar imperfections in my opinion, but it was so clear to him what would float his business and what not. He would take me to an item he was in mid-repair intended for sale and very didactically explain what repairs would work in terms of cost-benefit for a potential customer. And his explanations would be so tailored to the specific type of object he was showing me, pointing out details I could never think of. He also talked to me about the soon to be store, in his mind it was all so clear what make would make it work “then you shouldn't do this…because people (customers) would rather have X instead/ why would they pay for...” (A); “At first I thought X… but then I retracted because Y is such a better option overall, do you get why?” (B). He had some unconscious understanding of what people he had not yet met would want (A - and what do you know: an abstraction) that helped him plan (B). I'm Ni and I couldn't have done that, not really with ease in that type of business. He could do it so nonchalant because it's natural for SLI inclination to deal with the practical side of life, of artifacts, so he had a clear idea of what people wanted from that aspect of their existence based on convenience and inconvenience and then make decisions based on that, Te/Fi makes him split from Ti/Fe so he finds his way in independent economic activity like fish in the water, SLI can squeeze money out of a stone, easily turn something to the object of a business, a more ‘merchant/economic independent’ type inclination that favors lateral upshoots of business activity. Si and Te were behind my stepdad’s successful strategy for the future of his activity.

Maybe opposite the SLI is the LSI. Instead of the Delta way of ‘street smarts’ ingenious tradesperson with ‘splintering’ (Fi/Te) tendencies, his strategies will deal with closed systems and how to move people, concepts and objects in that system because they understand what it needs to continue functioning. Gulenko calls the most prominent subtypes of this psychotype, the D subtype, the creators of centralized states. You can't do that with some level of ability to grand-strategize.

Perhaps SLI's dual is a good example vis-à-vis IEI and their ability to plan and acquisition of money. IEE will thrift, keep objects for a long time to squeeze their usability for longer, will be more likely to show tendencies towards delayed-gratification to save a dollar as they're programmed to complement uber-stingy SLI. IEI's are noted for buying something if it satisfies some small fantasy whim and prioritize that instant gratification because it fuels the beloved fantasy prospects. How are IEEs better at planning in relation to money and their money in their future and yet they're Ni ignoring? Should IEI's power of looking into the future make it apparent to them that there's more money waiting down the path if strategize their expenses to avoid scarcity? Ni isn't the strategist of strategists even if we narrow it to intuitives. IEE's have Te activating. Valued elements play a role. SLIs also surpass the IEI in that regard: their stinginess attests to that. Strategy ≠ Ni. @timber is right.

When I see Jim Wendler I could just as well be listening to my sensor stepdad in his workshop only the topic is different. Maybe valued functions are different but I don't see the emergency to type him Ni lead only because he had a plan and... testosterone?

why Messi has Intuition of Time

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b6qBbLxP53s

Some time ago I took my stepdad with me to see the apartment I was intending to buy. It wasn't a new unit so I knew there could be structural issues ahead and I didn't want to be sold a habitational lemon, what with me being an intuitive and not Delta thus never finding much fulfillment in house maintenance so I didn't have the first idea what to look for. It took him a couple of minutes to understand all the problems and expenses that lay ahead if I decided to go ahead with the purchase. He even went further into the future than Messi because the minute he got home he did the numbers and got back at me with a comment on repairs and how they could impact property revaluing in a couple of years.

My point is there's nothing in what Messi does there that screams Ni type just because. I'm not sure how I feel about delimiting every small feature like soccer playing tactics to a certain type but manipulations of objects in space is more akin to Se. What Messi does have is a physical advantage: his velocity increases when he has ball possession as opposed to the rest of the players. Why run needlessly when you know you have a trump card? And now that we know that strategy and 'looking into the future' is not obligatory related to Ni but the strong side of a type and perhaps more strongly to ego functions…

[Manatroid92]

I literally mentioned in chat a couple of days ago that engineering is Ni.

This perceptual element defines a person's ability or inability to forecast and plan for the future, evade all sorts of troubles, avoid taking wrong actions, and learn from past experience.
Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how their life will develop in the future.

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index....rted_intuition

Ni is the architect function. Literally plans everything while sensing types build it.

I'm waiting with bated breath to see the famed IEIs here like AWellArmedCat, Shazaam and ScawwyNarcissist spontaneously decide to take up building rail guns and international space stations.

Seriously though, if you could all get around to doing that, the results would be spectacular.

[AWellArmedCat]

Seriously though, if you could all get around to doing that, the results would be spectacular.

I am a cat and thus, though I may delight in the wanton destruction that shall surely ensue, I will instead await patiently for someone with thumbs and the ability to math builds it for me

[Manatroid92]

I am a cat and thus, though I may delight in the wanton destruction that shall surely ensue, I will instead await patiently for someone with thumbs and the ability to math builds it for me

If Hollywood taught me anything, it's that any supervillain's plans of wanton destruction are always aided by a feline companion.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I'm waiting with bated breath to see the famed IEIs here like AWellArmedCat, Shazaam and ScawwyNarcissist spontaneously decide to take up building rail guns and international space stations.

Seriously though, if you could all get around to doing that, the results would be spectacular.

@AWellArmedCat is Ni base because he took a time-consuming commitment of learning japanese and moving from america to japan which is something that not everyone can do, as it requires a lot of planning. it's not something you do on a whim. you need to invest a large amount of time to plan and execute that. I know that because I studied japanese too but gave up after 6 months because I wanted to go into a different direction with my life and move to berlin. there are 8 functions and 8 billion people. it's clear that not every person with the same type will be drawn to the same exact things. not every Ni type will be an engineer, but engineering is a field that is very interesting to some Ni dom.

[Squirrel]

Fairouz, IEI

https://youtu.be/YXrBVydeAzE

[Manatroid92]

AWellArmedCat is Ni base because he took a time-consuming commitment of learning japanese and moving from america to japan which is something that not everyone can do, as it requires a lot of planning. it's not something you do on a whim. you need to invest a large amount of time to plan and execute that. I know that because I studied japanese too but gave up after 6 months because I wanted to go into a different direction with my life and move to berlin. there are 8 functions and 8 billion people. it's clear that not every person with the same type will be drawn to the same exact things. not every Ni type will be an engineer, but engineering is a field that is very interesting to some Ni dom.

If "not every Ni type" will be an engineer, you probably shouldn't say things like

I literally mentioned in chat a couple of days ago that engineering is Ni.

I would like to see anything else in Socionics theory that explicitly mentions Ni as relating to engineering, at all. If you can do that, then I'll at least give you props for sourcing your understanding based upon established theory.


At this point, tough, I have to really wonder what it is that you consider Ni to not be. If you redefine what that function/information element is supposed to govern, then you're going to eventually run out of things for other functions to cover, after which your own theory (that you've claimed to be developing) will inevitably need to backtrack on its definitions to compensate.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

If "not every Ni type" will be an engineer, you probably shouldn't say things like



I would like to see anything else in Socionics theory that explicitly mentions Ni as relating to engineering, at all. If you can do that, then I'll at least give you props for sourcing your understanding based upon established theory.


At this point, tough, I have to really wonder what it is that you consider Ni to not be. If you redefine what that function/information element is supposed to govern, then you're going to eventually run out of things for other functions to cover, after which your own theory (that you've claimed to be developing) will inevitably need to backtrack on its definitions to compensate.

I have never claimed I am developing my own theory. Where did you read that? I'm just noticing inconsistencies with it.

How are

If "not every Ni type" will be an engineer, you probably shouldn't say things like
I literally mentioned in chat a couple of days ago that engineering is Ni.


Statements that oppose each other logically? Artists are IEI, but not every IEI will be an artist is the same statement. It is not logically false, unless you think people of the same type must all have the same exact skills and interests, which is impossible with 8 billion people on this planet

[AWellArmedCat]

@AWellArmedCat is Ni base because he took a time-consuming commitment of learning japanese and moving from america to japan which is something that not everyone can do, as it requires a lot of planning. it's not something you do on a whim. you need to invest a large amount of time to plan and execute that.

How would you contrast that with IEE? Like what would you expect of an IEE in my position?

Also it's actually not that hard to come here via JET with relatively little planning. Of course it's probably not well-described as "easy," but I think people assume moving countries is much harder than it actually is. If you're single and without many possessions it's really not that painful of a process. Also as for Japanese I would say it's also a lot less of a hassle than people think it is (if you live here). I think as long as you have some kind of inner drive to learn it and you are rewarded along the way (by being able to gradually read more and more manga for example) you'll find you pick it up without expending too much energy. The only consistent (daily) conscious effort I make to study is doing my Anki flashcards I have carefully built up over years. They're cards of my own creation so they are perfectly customized to me. If you add like 20 or so words a week you can accumulate quite a lot of them, and if you do them every day the vocab will definitely stick. I feel most people make the mistake of spending TOO MUCH energy on studying. They burn themselves out and then give up because their methods are unsustainable. You want to make studying as painless as possible for yourself and focus more on making it a habit. Going to bed without doing your Anki should feel as uncomfortable as going to bed without brushing your teeth lol

Sorry for the random barely-related Japanese learning lecture

[Manatroid92]

I have never claimed I am developing my own theory. Where did you read that? I'm just noticing inconsistencies with it.

Aren't you? I feel very certain that said before in the past that you don't rely on Model G/Gulenko or any other specific theory, and that your ideas are taken from several other sources. Moreover, your assertions (despite your protests) don't mesh with Socionics as people here generally understand it. If that was not the case, there would be far fewer conflicts between yours and others opinion on what constitutes Ni (you've said that Ni is linked to being a prodigy, you can't deny this because I've seen you say as much in the chatbox). If you aren't creating your own theoretical model, then my apologies, I may have misunderstood, but it seems like you're not actually using many sources most everyone here is familiar with, if they are sources at all.

How are

If "not every Ni type" will be an engineer, you probably shouldn't say things like
I literally mentioned in chat a couple of days ago that engineering is Ni.

Statements that oppose each other logically?

You said "engineering is Ni", not "engineering is related to Ni". How else is someone meant to interpret a statement when you say "X is Y"? I'd never say something ridiculous like "Si is cooking" I would say "Si is related to cooking" (whether or not that's true). If you didn't mean it that way, then you really should make an edit to correct it to avoid further confusion.

Artists are IEI, but not every IEI will be an artist is the same statement. It is not logically false, unless you think people of the same type must all have the same exact skills and interests, which is impossible with 8 billion people on this planet

If statements like this, which seems to be structured to be taken on its face, are not actually intended to be taken on their face, then it's no wonder people have such difficulty talking with you about Socionics.

Also, let's think about this for a little bit.
If Artists = IEI, but IEI =/= Artist, then it follows that if you are an artists, you must be an IEI.
If Engineers = Ni, then it follows that only people who engage in Ni are engineers. So not only does this include Gamma NTs and maybe Alpha NTs, it also means all NF types are also the only ones who can be engineers! That's right, IEEs, EIIs, EIEs and IEIs are also as equally likely to become engaged in structuring machinery as NTs are. It's not bloody wonder NFs are said to have problems with handling finances and work, they're too busy being artists and engineers at the same time.

Do you understand why making statements like you just did are so confusing for people here? If this outcome is not your intention, then you really need to change how you explain your understanding of functions/IEs and types.

Also, you still haven't provided any theory other than your own yet about how engineering is related to Ni, other than "planning".

[godslave]

Fairouz, IEI

https://youtu.be/YXrBVydeAzE

A while ago I was about to post that video here but I hesitated for some reasons ahah !

[Rusal]

​Continuing a little bit, just like my SLI stepdad could predict what potential customers would want and their preference of action in accordance given his understanding of convenience in the more practical side of affairs, the area of action for SLE to strategize in is people and who has strength and which type, how to organize them and how much power or force is required to what end, movements of people and material and ability predict their impact on the ground. Think army generals that plan general strategies on the field. Low Ni doesn't not stop these two types from strategizing. Focusing on the isolated lead function and overstretch its importance as a factor can lead to mistakes: in my example of IEE vs IEI, if you take Ne as the sole factor then it's the IEE that should fall victim to every whimsical purchase, led by whatever catches their interest at a given moment. But it doesn't happen that way. As for Ni in engineering because “plan” and “intuition making the connections” or whatever… regarding fields like electrical engineering if the connection to lead Ni was so strong then even IEIs not interested at all in engineering would be regarded as natural-born entry-level electricians: have your intuition do the jumps to know what circuit goes where and apply intuition of time to prevent the line from having any further issues. The practical, craftsmen IEIs. There are obviously other factors involved.

[nifl]

Fairuz - IEI is possible, or ILI

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Fairuz is definitely IEI

[on a peaceful hiatus]

How would you contrast that with IEE? Like what would you expect of an IEE in my position?

Also it's actually not that hard to come here via JET with relatively little planning. Of course it's probably not well-described as "easy," but I think people assume moving countries is much harder than it actually is. If you're single and without many possessions it's really not that painful of a process. Also as for Japanese I would say it's also a lot less of a hassle than people think it is (if you live here). I think as long as you have some kind of inner drive to learn it and you are rewarded along the way (by being able to gradually read more and more manga for example) you'll find you pick it up without expending too much energy. The only consistent (daily) conscious effort I make to study is doing my Anki flashcards I have carefully built up over years. They're cards of my own creation so they are perfectly customized to me. If you add like 20 or so words a week you can accumulate quite a lot of them, and if you do them every day the vocab will definitely stick. I feel most people make the mistake of spending TOO MUCH energy on studying. They burn themselves out and then give up because their methods are unsustainable. You want to make studying as painless as possible for yourself and focus more on making it a habit. Going to bed without doing your Anki should feel as uncomfortable as going to bed without brushing your teeth lol

Sorry for the random barely-related Japanese learning lecture

the moving part itself is not that difficult I agree, but I think you are downplaying how difficult it would be for most people to learn japanese. it's like you take your own perception as something everyone must also be interested in, when that's simply not the case. I think not even 0,1% of the western population would even consider learning japanese, much less making the effort to actually do it. I personally think this is common for IEI, thinking that all other types must be also interested in novelty. Jordan Peterson did an interesting study on creativity and came to the conclusion that over 70% of the participants were not creative at all. they were asked questions such as "have you ever written a poem?", "ever written a piece of music?" and so on. I think this is very important to keep in mind when typing yourself and others.

https://youtu.be/l_CtJ6bRWgM
https://youtube.com/shorts/IcNxRa5wIrQ?feature=share

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Aren't you? I feel very certain that said before in the past that you don't rely on Model G/Gulenko or any other specific theory, and that your ideas are taken from several other sources. Moreover, your assertions (despite your protests) don't mesh with Socionics as people here generally understand it. If that was not the case, there would be far fewer conflicts between yours and others opinion on what constitutes Ni (you've said that Ni is linked to being a prodigy, you can't deny this because I've seen you say as much in the chatbox). If you aren't creating your own theoretical model, then my apologies, I may have misunderstood, but it seems like you're not actually using many sources most everyone here is familiar with, if they are sources at all.

my perception is pretty chaotic but yes, I do relate Ni to giftedness, although that usually means excelling at an abstract creative and theoretical endevour. that's very rare, though. I think I've described what Ni is in my view several times, but I think the problem is that it was done in a rather decentralized way due to the nature of this website, so it might not be clear to everyone I have discussions with.

Also, let's think about this for a little bit.
If Artists = IEI, but IEI =/= Artist, then it follows that if you are an artists, you must be an IEI.

I do not think every artist is an IEI btw, although it's true that my comments might suggest that I think this way. I'm not too focused on convincing others, so an occasional misunderstanding doesn't bother me. art itself is a field that is generally interesting to NF types, but I have also seen ESI and LSI being members of an Orchestra playing violin and trumpet. the acclaimed artists that really stick out are in my opinion almost always IEI, though. many misunderstanding on this site mainly come from the fact that many have a very flawed or different understanding of the theory. @nifl is almost the only one that really sticks to it.

[Manatroid92]

my perception is pretty chaotic but yes, I do relate Ni to giftedness, although that usually means excelling at an abstract creative and theoretical endevour. that's very rare, though. I think I've described what Ni is in my view several times, but I think the problem is that it was done in a rather decentralized way due to the nature of this website, so it might not be clear to everyone I have discussions with.

At this point I'd earnestly recommend you just make a post on the forum about how you understand Ni then, and make adjustments to it as you go. I don't know if it's possible to make it so that only you yourself has the ability to post in a thread you create (ask the moderators maybe), but in that case it would prevent people from arguing with you in there. In that event, you can just refer to it whenever you think you're going to get into a dispute and just leave it at that (putting it into the signature would be useful, too).

I do not think every artist is an IEI btw, although it's true that my comments might suggest that I think this way.

Yes, glad you are starting to understand why people take issue with your comments now.

I'm not too focused on convincing others, so an occasional misunderstanding doesn't bother me.

It's not "occasional", though, is it? If anything, the misunderstandings I have on this forum are "occasional", whereas every time you have tried to redefine what Ni is, you have just caused people more confusion.

art itself is a field that is generally interesting to NF types, but I have also seen ESI and LSI being members of an Orchestra playing violin and trumpet. the acclaimed artists that really stick out are in my opinion almost always IEI, though.

This must be the first time you have ever said this on this forum, at least from what I've seen. Of course not all people who are into the arts are going to be IEIs or even NFs, but it's you who have been making completely generalized statements without clarification, and are surprised when people think you're talking rubbish.

many misunderstanding on this site mainly come from the fact that many have a very flawed or different understanding of the theory. @nifl is almost the only one that really sticks to it.

I disagree that nifl is right all the time, but they do have a demonstrably solid understanding of Model A and classical Socionics, no doubt, and at the very least I'm able to understand where they're coming from.
And no, that doesn't mean no-one else knows what they're talking about. Socionics is open to interpretation, so there's going to be disagreements, but those interpretations can only go to a certain extent before they become untenable without completely changing how we understand the theory.
If you genuinely believe that something like "Engineering = Ni", then just say it's an idea you have, and defend it on those merits. Don't outright state it like it's some truth, when it's only literally coming from your own head.

[AWellArmedCat]

Jordan Peterson did an interesting study on creativity and came to the conclusion that over 70% of the participants were not creative at all. they were asked questions such as "have you ever written a poem?", "ever written a piece of music?" and so on. I think this is very important to keep in mind when typing yourself and others.

Oh yeah, I remember that! I think he also had the questionnaire he used posted somewhere. I don't remember what I scored on it, but I remember taking it and being surprised how uninterested in creativity most people are

[Squirrel]

At this point I'd earnestly recommend you just make a post on the forum about how you understand Ni then, and make adjustments to it as you go. I don't know if it's possible to make it so that only you yourself has the ability to post in a thread you create (ask the moderators maybe), but in that case it would prevent people from arguing with you in there

He can make a blog and control comments via these options

[inaLim]

LSI

[nifl]

Brandon D'Eon is intuitive, seems ILE or LII

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Brandon D'Eon is intuitive, seems ILE or LII

Looks like another IEI to me