So what's my type?

[ThePeddler]

Firstly, I would like to say that this is my first post here. But I've known about socionics for a long time. And I've known this forum for a long time. I just never made an account. Just saying this so you won't think that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.

If you want a description, I'll do it afterwards. Right now I wanna describe something else.

Alright, Because I've been so well-acquainted with Socionics for so long, I've been to many sites. Seen many things, Read many things. And of course, I've seen Rick's site. And there is something I wanna show you from there.

http://socionics.us/theory/log_eth.shtml
From this, I can very surely say I'm ethical. That's all.

And from a topic from long, long ago (on this site) :

Extrovert (black) ethics

- Understanding the emotional state of a person, influence on his mood.
- Ability to force a person to reveal his emotions, show his feelings. Ability to find an individual approach to a person.
- Frank expression of the emotions, demonstration of feelings, epatage, inclination to theatricality (grandstand play).
- Impressionability, mood drops, passion, fanaticism, animation of diffirent objects.
- Creation of an emotional atmosphere in a collective or a society (stressing situation, enthusiasm, emotional rise). Management of an emotional background.
- Inclination to oratory, artistry (all spectrum of intonations, expressive pauses, significant sights, rich mimicry).

Introvert (white) ethics

- A moral estimation of the deeds of a person, his opinions.
- Abilityl to understand, estimate the relationship between people, conventions accepted in a collective, society.
- An emotional estimation of one’s attitude (sympathy, antipathy, trust, worship and so forth), its expression. An estimation of public attitudes (sympathies, popularity and so forth).
- Manipulation with relationship between people, ability to build relationship on any psychological distance and toto create and impose the norms of behaviour.
- Aspiration for humanistic ideals (philantrophy, mercy and so forth).
- Aspiration for mutual trust, call of duty, responsibility.

I can very surely say that I contain Extroverted Ethics in the Ego block.

And now I'm stuck. That's all I'm sure of.

Anyway, That wasn't the point of this post. I wanted to ask about intertype relations. I've been having conflicts with two people typed INTp and ISTp. I'm very sure of their types. Every fits, The temperaments, the dichotomies(as in extraverted-introverted, and the others, I don't trust Reinen dichotomies, why make an already complicated enough system more so) clubs, and other stuff. If I'm wrong, then I'm probably wrong about the INTp, but they're both at least Ixxp. I'm going to call the INTp "A" and the ISTp "B".

These conflicts aren't all out war, actually not even conflicts really. But it was something I was thinking about. Sooo... I'll start with "A" (Just so you know in advance, I'm keeping it gender neutral)

I have absolutely no problem with "A". "A" wouldn't hurt a fly. Honestly, "A" doesn't not possess the "life" to hurt a fly. I mean really, "A" lacks any and all personality. Not saying that "A" isn't a good person, "A" just isn't a perticularly dynamic individual. "A" lacks any and all personality, opinion, or curiosity. "A" thinks of themself as rebellious, and my particular opinion of "A" is that "A" is perhaps the most docile person you could ever meet. We never fight honestly, but what makes this relation so bad is "A"'s lack of responsiveness. "A" likes to act like a victim. Like their life is just so so bad. And I'm just like "well, it's your fault if your dead." What else can I tell them? It's their own fault that they let their personality die. Anyway, When I'm not disgusted at their regularity, we get along pretty well. My showiness, and oddities falls pretty well with "A" I'm pretty sure We've never been in a fight, or even a small argument. We've been in petty spats, but it was probably my fault anyway.

Alright, so "B". Me and "B" do not get along at all. Every single time we meet, we will eventually argue about something. And it's actually started by "B". "B" is perhaps the most sheepish person made. "B" puts absolutely no energy into anything. But that's not the problem. "B"'s also the meanest thing you will ever meet. Not in ideas, but in expression. And not to just anyone , just to me. Because this one day, I got the crazy idea to go talk to "B", he seemed interesting from afar. So after a few days, things were still cool, "B" was still interestingly aloof. But then hell descended. "B" is just really boring, but in an interesting twist, that is perhaps "B"'s most common complaint "I'm bored". And "B" is just so negative. "B" will complain about everything, And that;s another thing I just can't take. "B" also just criticizes me so much. Like if I'm doing something that I find fun, (and I find a lot of things fun), "B" will call it stupid and lame. If I enjoy racing, rolling, or tumbling, then let me enjoy racing, rolling, and tumbling. I'm not asking you to join me. I mean, at least I'm doing something to alleviate my boredom. What about "B"? No, "B" just sits there looking pathetic criticizing my actions. I don't try to talk to "B" and fact I try to avoid "B". Well, kinda. I'm too nice to just walk away. BUT, I try to say nothing to "B".

Question: Those two people I formed views of because of their lack of Fe. But what about the their Te side" I don't think I'm all that affected from it. How do they hit me with Te?

And this may sound really juvenile, and that might be because it is. I'm only in High school, so don't judge me as an adult. I admit, my problems may seem stupid if looked at from a certain angle, but they're not not. They're real enough to me.

[ThePeddler]

Oh yeah, and for me to figure out my type, what would you suggest I do?

[Expat]

Can you talk more about yourself, apart from Socionics and those people? A few pictures could be useful.

I agree that you seem extraverted and ethical and value Fe, although some of what you say also slightly suggest EP temperament.

I don't think they necessarily actively "hit" you with Te since they seem introverts, the problem is their lack of responsiveness to your Fe.

I already have some ideas on your type, but perhaps you can tell something more.

[FDG]

You already know that you're ENFj, why are you asking?

[Expat]

Yes, ENFj was what I was thinking of.

[ThePeddler]

I'm asking because I don't honestly know. But it could be a possibility.

Anyway, I have no idea what to tell you. I think the results would be a lot better if they were questions. I'm not good with generally talking about myself.

[Slacker]

From what you've said so far, ENFj is the obvious option.

Answering questions isn't as good as you just talking because what you choose to talk about is part of what gives people a clue about your type.

But how about this for starters - what do you like to do with your free time? Why do you do those things in particular? Are there any hobbies you would never have? Why? What do you see yourself doing after graduation, career wise and otherwise?

[ThePeddler]

what do you like to do with your free time? Why do you do those things in particular?

I like to write. And I also like to read about esoteric things, or lesser known things. Like Tarot, Enneagram, Socionics. Anything really. I also like learning about linguistics and the like. Language is a really interesting thing, but I'm probably the only one saying that.

Are there any hobbies you would never have? Why?

Not much, honestly. I would really try anything.
But I don't see myself as much of a builder. I could probably design the layout or whatever. But the whole building part, I think I'll get bored half-way through. I don't see myself as a collector either. No reason, honestly. I just don't see the point.

What do you see yourself doing after graduation, career wise and otherwise?

I want to be a writer. I'm not sure what kind, but I'm hoping to be either a journalist or a Game Writer. Really a Game Writer. It's not really a prolific career, but I think I would really enjoy it. I'll be able to make any kind of story, and see it played out. And it won't be people playing parts, it'll be parts playing people. Cause in a game, I think the character would be more made for a part, then the part made for the character.

I'm not really ambitious. I love money, everybody probably does. But I don't want the love of money to control me. I want to be rich, but I don't want to have to sacrifice my life just for that aim.

I also want to sing and act, but only on the side. Celebracy isn't my goal. I enjoy putting on a show, and I also want to be in control of the show I put on. If I try to become some famous *whatever* than it just wouldn't be the same. If I would ever become famous, I would like it to be for my writings anyway.

I don't feel I've given enough information.

[Exodus]

What about the people you get along with, and why?

[Hidden Agendas]

Language is a really interesting thing, but I'm probably the only one saying that.

Expression

I'll be able to make any kind of story, and see it played out. And it won't be people playing parts, it'll be parts playing people.

Freedom

I love money, everybody probably does. But I don't want the love of money to control me.

Strong moral principles.

I also want to sing and act, but only on the side. Celebracy isn't my goal. I enjoy putting on a show, and I also want to be in control of the show I put on. If I try to become some famous *whatever* than it just wouldn't be the same.

Individuality

Those are my sentiments.

I vote for ENFj

[ThePeddler]

The kind of people I get along with?

I don't like people without opinions. The kind that just agree with whatever. And I also don't like people who just can't function without advice. But they're okay, until they ask me for advice. I feel really awkward giving people advice, and actively tell them that I give the worst advice, and you'll be dumb to listen to me. I just don't feel right doing that.

I don't like people who let things hold them back. I have so many insecurities, but that won't stop me from jumping up and dancing. It won't stop me from taking a picture, just because I might feel or look terrible. I can't stand when people whine. I also don't like people who are too intrusive. Like If I'm doing something that has absolutely nothing to do with you, and doesn't effect you in any way, then don't give me your opinion. Only if I interact with you or actually ask, are you qualified to tell me anything.
I don't like people who incessantly talk. And it's even worse when they talk about themselves. I'm just like "blargggggggghhhhh" Not really. But all I can do is like look at them, and nod. And nod some more.
I don't like people who fish for compliments. Now this like the only thing that makes me be intentional mean. If they say something like, "I can't sing, at all" when they've been constantly congratulated on their singing voice, then I'll probably respond "No, you can't. You sound horrendously bad. Just horrible. I mean, really. Every time you even talk, I get the urge to just stab you in the larynx" I do say it sarcastically, but I really do wanna make them shut up.

Now what I do like.

I like confident people. Not like so confident that they beat other people down just for looking at them for 2 seconds longer than they should of. But just people who are sure of themselves. Who don't change their opinion randomly depending on who they're with.
I like people who know how to joke around. Not people who get offended easily.
I like people who know what they want to do. If I'm working on a project with someone, and I ask them what the want to do, I don't want to be re-asked the same question. If I had a plan, I would of said it. (This applies to more than just projects)
I like people who start things. Get ideas for things and do it. I'm am so much better at editing.
I like flighty people. Not in their actions, but in the personality. They're like really creative, and that's also something I like.

[Exodus]

Yeah, Beta NF. ENFj. Welcome.

[KSpin]

I have no idea about typing people. Seems so hard to me. :-S

Except that A sounds pretty un-INTpish. No curiousity? What?

[Exodus]

I have no idea about typing people. Seems so hard to me. :-S

Except that A sounds pretty un-INTpish. No curiousity? What?

INTp (especially INTp-Te) are about some of the most uncurious folk I've ever met. Curiosity is Ne anyway.

[KSpin]

OK. I define curiousity as being interested in the world around you, and an interest in new things.

What do you define it as?

EDIT: I mean, heck...

cu·ri·os·i·ty
–noun, plural -ties. 1. the desire to learn or know about anything; inquisitiveness.

[Exodus]

OK. I define curiousity as being interested in the world around you, and an interest in new things.

What do you define it as?

EDIT: I mean, heck...

cu·ri·os·i·ty
–noun, plural -ties. 1. the desire to learn or know about anything; inquisitiveness.

Someone with extraverted intuition as their leading function is very dependent on his/her feelings of interest and disinterest. Interest and boredom seem to be the driving forces in such a person's life — more so than for any other types. Other types also find things 'interesting' and 'boring,' however, they are able to derive satisfaction and enjoyment from things that aren't necessarily interesting and novel, as opposed to extraverted intuition types. Just as introverted sensing types can't make themselves do things that cause internal discomfort or are physically unpleasant, extraverted intuition types can't make themselves do things that do not engage them mentally (do not give them anything interesting to think about).

What makes something interesting? A new situation, a new set of people, a new way of looking at old things, or novel or unusual information. There has to be some special quality in the information, situation, or people that creates an open-ended, high-potential situation that engages and energizes the mind. extraverted intuition types would rather choose an unknown situation that might have high potential than a known situation that is known to have low or medium potential. Many extraverted intuition types have an irrational dread of boring situations and tasks, which usually end up not being as bad as they originally feared.

[KSpin]

That didn't answer the question.
In fact, it goes to show Ne types as being -more- curious than other types.

[Exodus]

In fact, it goes to show Ne types as being -more- curious than other types.

Yes.

That didn't answer the question.

No.

Ne is directly related to curiosity.
INTps don't value Ne.
Therefore INTps don't value curiosity.


I know INTps who go to extreme lengths to be well-educated in arcane subjects, but it's never simply for curiosity's sake.

[Gilly]

Yeah, which ILIs are not. IME, ILIs are all about learning practical skills to lead a productive life. They are more interested in financial success than Ne types; their "interests" are usually geared towards practical skills or talents that will help them in the future.

Alpha NTs are more like Plato's classic philosopher, and are, IME, usually more inclined to professions in academia and research. Think philosophy, linguistics, or classics majors.

Gamma NTs are more like Ayn Raand's John Galt, and tend to gravitate more to professions in business, trade, and marketing. Lots of economics, business, and political science majors.

Similarities: both tend to gravitate towards the sciences and math, although I feel like Alpha NTs are more likely to pursue professions in these fields.

[KSpin]

Then your experience is wrong... ILIs find practical things boring, or at least I do. It's -all- theory. I love learning about Nuclear Fusion/Fission, the Chernobyl incident, and lots and lots of other theoretical things. These will not help me in my future life one little bit. I'm going to University in September to learn Games Technology. They are not related. My curiosity leads me far and wide.

I studied Business Studies at A Level, sure, I find the theory in it interesting, but as for putting that theory into practice? That's best left to other people.

[implied]

Yeah, which ILIs are not. IME, ILIs are all about learning practical skills to lead a productive life. They are more interested in financial success than Ne types; their "interests" are usually geared towards practical skills or talents that will help them in the future.

Alpha NTs are more like Plato's classic philosopher, and are, IME, usually more inclined to professions in academia and research. Think philosophy, linguistics, or classics majors.

Gamma NTs are more like Ayn Raand's John Galt, and tend to gravitate more to professions in business, trade, and marketing. Lots of economics, business, and political science majors.

Similarities: both tend to gravitate towards the sciences and math, although I feel like Alpha NTs are more likely to pursue professions in these fields.

odd.

i majored in applied linguistics and almost majored in classics. i just figured that these skills would help me in the future (so far they have. i've done tons of translation-work and now AL is sort of a hot field in some parts of the country.) as for the theoretical part of all the AL classes i took, i was really sort of interested in taking these pedagogical theories i would read up on and actually using them in my classroom. that seemed like the "fun" part because a lot of them seemed like they could be put to use.

i think "business" in the very literal sense of "business logic" isn't so fascinating.

then again i think the last time we spoke you also thought i was ISFp.

[Exodus]

Maria, I think it's more than likely that you have Ne dual-seeking, fwiw.

[implied]

Maria, I think it's more than likely that you have Ne dual-seeking, fwiw.

i doubt this, and i don't even exactly know where you're getting all this information about me to suggest that i'm :NE: dual seeking. although it's interesting that you think i have dual seeking while for quite a long time people thought i was polr.

[aestrivex]

Yeah, which ILIs are not. IME, ILIs are all about learning practical skills to lead a productive life. They are more interested in financial success than Ne types; their "interests" are usually geared towards practical skills or talents that will help them in the future.

FWIW, i couldn't care less about business studies at this stage. while i at least acknowledge the importance of practical studies, i can't possibly imagine that they would dictate the path of my education, although i do plan to dabble in economic theory somewhat. i'm much more likely to pursue an education in the field of math and computer science, which i'm sure comes as an extraordinary surprise to everybody.

i'm not particularly worried about these disciplines being impractical; obviously, there are many avenues of future research and job opportunities in the field of computer science, which, if i can find something interesting to do, sounds like a perfectly good way to make at least a financially comfortable living. at this stage it's impossible to predict what else will happen.


of course, i might not be ILI, and this whole discussion would then be moot.

[Gilly]

Maria, you are SLI. Embrace it.

[implied]

Maria, you are SLI. Embrace it.

no. i could really appreciate less sensations and such and i cannot fucking deal with constant ESFj insecurities/jealousy/whining about their aches and pains/whatever etc/how no one ever wants to go do things with them, and where they just want you to sit still and not move or go out with your friends. i get along not so poorly at all with my extremely ENFj sister, although she's probably not my dual. any i possibly express is probably due to having grown up with an ESFj subtype (as much as i bitch about her, she has certainly espoused the importance of good health plenty.) i find that the moment i am not around ESFjs, i am 500x more "comfortable" and in my own skin as if a gigantic lead weight has been lifted from my fucking universe.

really now.

[KSpin]

Just so I'm on the right track here, is Implied Maria? And does Implied have any idea of what their type is?

[Exodus]

Maria, you are SLI. Embrace it.

Yeah.

Maria, I think it's more than likely that you have Ne dual-seeking, fwiw.

i doubt this, and i don't even exactly know where you're getting all this information about me to suggest that i'm :NE: dual seeking.

For one, a lot of your posts are like "What do you think about this?" or "Isn't that cool?" Not really INTp-like behavior. INTps are much more arrogant and (ahem) obstinate about their knowledge.

although it's interesting that you think i have dual seeking while for quite a long time people thought i was polr.

We discussed this at length!

[implied]

Maria, you are SLI. Embrace it.

Yeah.

Maria, I think it's more than likely that you have Ne dual-seeking, fwiw.

i doubt this, and i don't even exactly know where you're getting all this information about me to suggest that i'm :NE: dual seeking.

For one, a lot of your posts are like "What do you think about this?" or "Isn't that cool?" Not really INTp-like behavior. INTps are much more arrogant and (ahem) obstinate about their knowledge.

although it's interesting that you think i have dual seeking while for quite a long time people thought i was polr.

We discussed this at length!

again, can you address my post? i have an ENFj sister who i don't fight with at all. you'd have better luck and be more reasonable in trying to prove that i were ISFj.

[Exodus]

I don't know your sister.

You have shown signs of valuing Si (I think Gilligan once mentioned your aversion to confrontation), but none of valuing Se. In fact I remember you reacting quite negatively to a few of FDG's Se-loaded posts.

constant ESFj ...whining about their aches and pains...

Honestly I have no idea what this means, and I have never seen an ESFj do it. That part is the only one that relates to Si, all the rest is Fe-related and consistent with your being ISTp.

you'd have better luck and be more reasonable in trying to prove that i were ISFj.

Please don't get mad at me over this. I'm not going to push it, ok?

[implied]

I don't know your sister.

do you know me well enough to say, either, then?

You have shown signs of valuing Si (I think Gilligan once mentioned your aversion to confrontation), but none of valuing Se. In fact I remember you reacting quite negatively to a few of FDG's Se-loaded posts.

FDG doesn't bother me in the least. if i reacted "negatively" to his posts i really don't remember it. i think he's generally a good egg.

again i have a very ENFj sister, an ENTj father (who you typed yourself v.i. as like, what, ESFp? there's no way he's ethical. he's ENTj. expat and i have talked about him a great deal and expat, at the least, seems sure that they are the same type.)

Please don't get mad at me over this. I'm not going to push it, ok?

i'm not. i just get sick of your weird on-the-whim frivolous typings that have little relation with reality and provide very little data. like 5 seconds gilligan is all, "oh, so and so must be ENFp... ENTj... ISFp... INTp... ISTp..." make up your mind is all i'm asking and think for five seconds before you come to a decision? it's not a speed-race, here.

[Exodus]

I don't know your sister.

do you know me well enough to say, either, then?

I think so.

You have shown signs of valuing Si (I think Gilligan once mentioned your aversion to confrontation), but none of valuing Se. In fact I remember you reacting quite negatively to a few of FDG's Se-loaded posts.

FDG doesn't bother me in the least. if i reacted "negatively" to his posts i really don't remember it. i think he's generally a good egg.

ok.

again i have a very ENFj sister, an ENTj father (who you typed yourself v.i. as like, what, ESFp? there's no way he's ethical. he's ENTj. expat and i have talked about him a great deal and expat, at the least, seems sure that they are the same type.)

I am and was terrible at VI, it should be obvious by now. That was just a random guess.

Please don't get mad at me over this. I'm not going to push it, ok?

i'm not. i just get sick of your weird on-the-whim frivolous typings that have little relation with reality and provide very little data. like 5 seconds gilligan is all, "oh, so and so must be ENFp... ENTj... ISFp... INTp... ISTp..." make up your mind is all i'm asking and think for five seconds before you come to a decision? it's not a speed-race, here.

My mind was made up a long time ago. You said yourself, you get along with Alpha NTs, and the way I see it it's way better than any INTp would.

As for my typings in general, of course I'm going to blame Ti/Fe/Ne for the relative lack of "data". It's just how I work; superficial impressions are the easiest and best way for me to type someone. I know Te/Fi/Ni types would probably rather list the arguments for and against, delving into the depths of a person's soul, but whatever.

[implied]

My mind was made up a long time ago. You said yourself, you get along with Alpha NTs, and the way I see it it's way better than any INTp would.

some more highly evolved INTjs/ENTps do not bug me and we're generally neutral. this doesn't mean they just blow tons of wind up my skirt and have to be my dual. stop trying so hard to make everything fit into a little logic box.

As for my typings in general, of course I'm going to blame Ti/Fe/Ne for the relative lack of "data". It's just how I work; superficial impressions are the easiest and best way for me to type someone. I know Te/Fi/Ni types would probably rather list the arguments for and against, delving into the depths of a person's soul, but whatever.

yes, but in your case, they make absolutely no sense and quite often lead you to very wrong conclusions? ISFp? this is obviously not the case with a lot of dominant typists like Kim/Rick etc. just that yours may lead you astray quite a bit.

[Exodus]

I said you were ISTp.

And of course my conclusions have often been wrong; that's part of learning socionics. As for whether I suck at typing in general and don't know what I'm talking about, there's nothing I can say to that. As far as I remember, you haven't called me on any specific typing other than this one, so I'm rather surprised to say the least.

[Gilly]

Maria, you are SLI. Embrace it.

no. i could really appreciate less sensations and such and i cannot fucking deal with constant ESFj insecurities/jealousy/whining about their aches and pains/whatever etc/how no one ever wants to go do things with them, and where they just want you to sit still and not move or go out with your friends. i get along not so poorly at all with my extremely ENFj sister, although she's probably not my dual. any i possibly express is probably due to having grown up with an ESFj subtype (as much as i bitch about her, she has certainly espoused the importance of good health plenty.) i find that the moment i am not around ESFjs, i am 500x more "comfortable" and in my own skin as if a gigantic lead weight has been lifted from my fucking universe.

really now.

No need to get upset. ESEs aren't all like that...don't be such a bigot. I thought you were above this kind of judgmental bullshit.

And besides, if you ARE SLI, ESEs would still annoy the shit out of you.

[implied]

And besides, if you ARE SLI, ESEs would still annoy the shit out of you.

then why is ESE much worse generally than EIE?

[Gilly]

No clue. Maybe you're bad at typing You obviously can't do yourself.

[implied]

No clue. Maybe you're bad at typing You obviously can't do yourself.

the same could be said for you, gilly.

[Gilly]

Not true. I've been rather sure of my type for a long time; I have occasional doubts or waverings, but I've stuck with the same type since the beginning. You, on the other hand, have experimented with everything from EIE to SLI

[implied]

Not true. I've been rather sure of my type for a long time; I have occasional doubts or waverings, but I've stuck with the same type since the beginning. You, on the other hand, have experimented with everything from EIE to SLI

you haven't? what about the several times you were absolutely convinced that you were ENFj/INFp? ahh, wait, ENFp, too, right?