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Thread: INTj or INTp?

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    Default INTj or INTp?

    I am thinking of writing (another) article, which will be about how to distinguish between The Analyst and The Critic based on how their psyche is structured, not on how they behave, or look, or what they are interested in.

    I am also writing this because the 'INTJ or INTP' article on Socionics.com seems woefully incomplete. I had a lot of trouble determining my type, because not enough information on the differences was supplied by Socionics until I found this forum.

    So, this first post is to find out whether you think that it would be a good idea. If you say that this is a good idea, then this post will become a place where I will put up various questions and we will debate the answers.

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    I would say, that the NTs from first and NTs from the fird quadra, are totally different NTs. Alfa NTs like to bring new information for humanity, Gamma NTs, I think, want to bring new business underatkings for sociaty to make sociaty into big happy and welthy family.

    I mean something like this: alfa quadra comes to an idea of an house project, beta quadra builds an house, gamma decorates it and delta lives in that building.

    I'm also thinking that delta age is the longest in Socion. We do live in our house a lot more, than we spend building it and decorating it.

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    Thanks kaido. But all I want at this stage is your opinions on the idea - is it good, bad, not needed, essential etc?

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    Default kaido21

    Think that MysticSonic would like to read it,I remember him thinking of his own type and he didn't really find out if he was INTp.

    BTW, you sound quit talkactive, you seem to need talking to find out others oppinnion on your self. I'm same kind, I need to have others oppinion on my thoughts and I like to compare my thoughts with others. And then there are Metaivan and Pedro-The-Lion ,who don't show that they need to know what others think of them.
    Semiotical process

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    There is also another reason. I have some lingering doubts over my own personality type. Despite my four-page long 'Need nelp in defining type,' I have a feeling that I was giving you something of a mask type (although I am definitely an INTx).

    So, while I will be genuinely writing a way to tell the difference between the two types, I will also be asking about my own behaviour.

    My next step in this post may take a day or so. I am going to make type descriptions of The Analyst and The Critic to establish exactly what they are - I may need to clarify a few things about the two using this post. Then I will ask questions about telling them apart.

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    You are NT, rest of you, it's not so clear. How ever, it seems to me, that you are extrovert. Extroverts supoused to learn through solving practically tasks.
    MBTI says that, but I think that it makes sence in socionics also.

    How do you know that you are introvert? Introverts live their lives inside of their heads. Intuitives, i think, also live inside their heads, there's a difference, but extroverted intuitives also, I speculate, need to have time for innertalkings. Only , they switch back to reality more often, than Is do. These are only my speculations, but i think that Is have more stable innerlife.

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    Since I believe you succintly described the INTj's typological behaviour, I will only attempt to describe and illustrate the INTp's behaviour.

    INTp's are rather...well....they're assholes. Their sharp rejection of ideas and scepticism to new projects makes them come off as rather unfriendly and intense individuals. The belief in their own ideas are so strong that they sometimes even fiegn ignorance in order to keep such beliefs stable. The hidden agenda manifests itself as a mistrust of others and their affectual nature, and will only give love if certain that such love will be reciprocated, and will be sincere. The Se function, as their active will, manifests itself in a childish form of assertion, and even these extremely aggressive assertions fall prey to the uncertainty that is a part of the INTp within this block.

    Also, I have been noticing that individuals who are more focused on their creative function tend to be more conerned about their hidden agenda, which might come from some elaborate relation which I cannot at the moment describe between the preference of the secondary ego-function and the similar nature in terms of rationality and irrationality between the creative function and the hidden agenda.

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    I have alos noticed that, what MysticSonic sayd, and f.e ISFp Ethical seems to be less practical than Sensing subtype is.

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    Right, I've decided to go ahead with the article, knowing that I have the 'backing' of at least two people. However, do not expect great things of this, because I am not a professional Socionist and am more relying on my analysis of peculiarities in type and my own imagination to come up with these.

    But this is going to take quite a bit of time, depending on how much work I can put in per day. This post will become something of a 'collections department' to look into my ideas. In perhaps a few days I will post my description of The Critic by function.

    Essentially, what I mean is that you will have to be constantly giving me feedback about a) the differences between The Analyst and The Critic and b) what you think about my own type.

    First questions:
    1. What is a subtype?
    2. I would like full descriptions of The Critic concerning their 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th functions.

    By the way, my name is 'TANZHE' and not 'TANZCHE.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    First questions:
    1. What is a subtype?
    2. I would like full descriptions of The Critic concerning their 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th functions.

    By the way, my name is 'TANZHE' and not 'TANZCHE.'
    1. that is a problem in socionics which because it is a problem I tend to ignore subtypes completely. different authors have difference visions of subtypes, but more important they are subjective while types are objective and defined, and do not change. i would ignore subtypes in your article if i were you.

    2. well, the critic doesn't mind being in situations where people are being stubborn or forefull(imposing their will). in fact, when around these people they will be more willfull themselves, although more childishly. the rest of the functions you should probably get from someone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Right, I've decided to go ahead with the article, knowing that I have the 'backing' of at least two people. However, do not expect great things of this, because I am not a professional Socionist and am more relying on my analysis of peculiarities in type and my own imagination to come up with these.
    I think such an article is dearly needed. I find it kind of puzzling why people seem to get stuck with the rational/irrational distinction when to me it seems to be one of the most obvious differences. To some extent I may well be imagining things, but I think it pays to observe people closely. Especially with ethical types the difference in the way they use emotions is usually quite noticeable. With logical types again, since they are logical, logical analysis should be the best way to find out your type.

    I quite like the functions that seem to make socionics so logical and clear, but then it just seems to be that people are not able to recognize the functions in themselves and that may well indicate that there is something with the theory that is poorly formulated or does not correspond to reality. For example for quasi-identicals the conscious functions and Quadra values are completely opposite. The difference between receiving program function and producing, creative function should also be clear, but it seems to be very difficult to formulate it in a way that people would easily understand it.

    But this is going to take quite a bit of time, depending on how much work I can put in per day. This post will become something of a 'collections department' to look into my ideas. In perhaps a few days I will post my description of The Critic by function.

    Essentially, what I mean is that you will have to be constantly giving me feedback about a) the differences between The Analyst and The Critic and b) what you think about my own type.
    The perennial question appears to be where to find an INTP socionics enthusiast, without feedback from the other type you will have to rely too heavily on the type descriptions and they are not always that useful - for if they were people would not have such a hard time finding their type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    First questions:

    1. What is a subtype?
    The subtypes are kind of based on the idea which block of functions are more strongly expressed. They can be of some use in typing people. I wish somebody knew more.

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    The way I (an INTJ) try to relate to INTP's is through Fi. Usually it just takes lots of patience and passive receptivity. As an INTJ don't try to meet the INTP at Te or you will end up out-assholing an INTP, not a pretty sight.

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    I am aware that direct personal contact with an INTp will be limited. Of course, I may well be an INTp myself, but I am partially writing this article so that I can confirm totally my type.

    I think that I will mainly revolve around me asking INFps (CuriousSoul in particular) about what Ni feels like. CuriousSoul, you don't need to post that yet; wait until I am ready.

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    As in INTJ, i see intps as being smart in their own way. but I don't like what they make, I think it could be done better. but I respect them. interpersonally, they make me act crazy and vice versa. quasi-identical relations are extremely weird, especially with the J-P thing making you EXTREMELY TRUSTING then NOT TRUSTING AT ALL.

    just my 2 cents.

    BTW php vulnerabilities out with no patches, and I don't run the server this runs on, so it might get hacked. if anybody cares anyway.

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    Default The Server

    Quote Originally Posted by metaiwan
    BTW php vulnerabilities out with no patches, and I don't run the server this runs on, so it might get hacked. if anybody cares anyway.
    Does this mean that there is a small but realistic chance that the posts on this Forum could disappear for ever. I have saved couple of my longer ones, but it would be a pity to lose the "archive".
    I may have missed your point since I do not know that much about computers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I
    Of course, I may well be an INTp myself, but I am partially writing this article so that I can confirm totally my type.
    I have just taken the Socionics Type Assisstant, this time really thinking about what the words mean and checking my answers with my father, who is also interested in Socionics.

    I came out as INTj - I, N, and T on both modes, J on both modes and both conscious and unconscious. I am trying to clarify my father's type, and then identify the relation between us, which should give me my type. Even if I come out as INTj anyway, then I'll still give the article my best try.

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    Check this site out. Go to the left side of the page and go to "Comparisons" and click on "INTJ vs. INTP".

    He is an INTJ and he makes a few interesting points.

    http://thirsk.yi.org/psych/

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    Here's more from the site. He does a good job at describing the intuitive subtype.


    INTJ
    Finding boundaries through experimentation - INTJ feels lost without boundaries - a pin-pointed fact somewhere between the boundaries is seen as a useless bit of trivia and can only be used with confidence in the exact same extremely specific circumstances. In order to find the desired high-level, more widely applicable knowledge, INTJ searches in all (or both) directions until it finds the boundaries to acheive closure. Its FiSe interface, when available, can assist by conducting experiments that test for boundaries by pushing the envelope more and more until the critical point is reached.

    Optimistic logical resonance - Ni actively perceives concepts, having Te pick out the logical relationships among them. INTJ is good at finding the inner, logical workings of things, whether it is a machine, aspects of nature and the universe, and even people, with the help of unconscious ENFP.

    INTJ excels at finding logically intelligent solutions, but its intense focus on idealism can make it prone to lack of consideration for what is practical in the externaverted(?) (E), concrete (S), and feeling (F) worlds if it is not balanced with its interface and unconscious.

    ENFP unconscious - INTJ sees the logical working of people: People have various emotions and desires, and the strongest ones ultimately cause them to do what they do. Unconscious ENFP provides conscious INTJ with several things:

    One is pessimistic insight into Fi things such as motivations. The often pessimistic insight can be seen in INTJ's very strong disapproval of doing illogical things (auxiliary Te, also pessimistic) for the sake of personal comfort. The unconcious Ne provides a preemptive weariness of the possibilty of this happening. This happens frequently when people believe things are true because they want to believe they are true because of the comfort of the idea this brings, or when people soften their conversation so much that it becomes mostly noise communication becomes ineffective because everyone is afraid of hurting one another's feelings.

    Another is a positive inter-idea connection-establishing Ne that helps resonate so that Ni can do its logical pattern matching.

    NTJ
    Rules - NTJ strongly dislikes arbitrary rules that lack solid logical reasoning, not as much because it encroaches on freedom, as it is because it's disturbing that people follow the rules out of tradition or conformity without considering the value of the rules or better possible actions. It maddens NTJ to be expected to follow rules that it deems pointless.

    Bluntness - Te often expresses its Ni perceptions quite bluntly and critically. It is concerned with the correctness of its ideas and expects others to be concerned with validity as well, and this strong focus on reasonable and logical ideas can make other factors seem less important and receive less attention. This can cause tension if the emotional impact of the idea or delivery of an idea is not considered, and it can cause shock if lack of reverence for traditional , such as the emotional impact it may have on people, the infractions of

    INJ - Dominant Ni
    Seeming Selflessness - INFJ and INTJ can see themselves as owning no real will, or having no will in what it wills. Dominant Ni's have a single optimum take on reality and cannot help but follow this perspective.

    NJ - Ni
    Conceptual Frameworks - Ni learns new ideas by incorporating them into conceptual frameworks, which are networks of interconnected ideas that can be viewed from any perspective. When the framework into which the idea is to be incorporated is incomplete, nonexistant, or orphaned from the meta-framework (the understanding into which all frameworks are integrated), the information in the idea may be stored until there is enough information to construct a framework with enough structure to allow for meaningful perspectives. The paired extraverted judging function are responsible for the objective correctness of the individual nodes within a network of ideas Ni's perception of the idea structures facilitates the simultaneous awareness of multiple perspectives of a concept, and when a framework is applied to a live case study, Ni provides concurrent awareness of multiple relevant variables.
    Linearity - Because Ni is aware of all points of view and all possibilities of an issue, it strongly resists taking for granted that any one point of view or possibility is the only relevant or valid one in a given hypothetical situation unless all others are somehow directly ruled out. It traverses its multidimensional web of ideas or possibilities from node to node (that is, in a linear fashion) until it cannot be determined which branch is the correct one to follow. Hypothetical possibilities may be explored by traversing beyond the node of certainty, although Ni tends to remain a strong awareness of what is hypothetical and what is certain. If it is known that the number of possibilities is finite and are all incorporated into the relevant framework, then the next correct path may be determined through process of elimination of all but one possibilities. Ni tends to speak with certainty and absolutes because that's what it deals with internally.

    Posessiveness of Ideas - NJs develop visionary ideas, and very much dislike when others take credit for coming up with the idea when in fact the NJ was the one to form it. Also, NJs highly dislike when others take their visionary ideas and pervert them into something less than the ideal. As a result, NJs may keep their ideas to themselves and establish them in the world only when they can be sure that nobody else will twist it into something worse. The posessiveness is due to the introverted attitude of Ni that makes it protective of its ideas.

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    Thank you.

    But I must be blunt. Currently, I am not quite ready to do this article. At the moment, my main focus is the INTj uncovered. When I'm ready, I'll ask for the information.

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    That description of intj is an socionics intp (Ni, ect)

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    I've said this before, and I'll say it again, the typological models of introverted types are DIFFERENT then their j/p counterpart, and thus the acronyms are NOT interchangeable between the two systems

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    Just to clarify:

    For example, let us say that I get the following result for the normal mode of the STA:

    INTx
    Conscious J, Unconscious P

    Does that mean that I behave in a reliable, orderly fashion but my psyche is one of an INTp (Ni Te)?

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    No, that means you're operating from a mask type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    No, that means you're operating from a mask type.
    What do you mean when you say 'operating from a mask type'?

    How can you tell if you are truly operating from a mask type, other than the aforementioned result of the STA?

    How can you ascertain your real type if you have a mask type?

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    Oh wait, I'm sorry, it could also mean you're operating from the logical subtype of the INTp.

    Now, generally speaking, a mask type is a type whom has chosen to use one of his weaker functions, rather then his stronger functions. Now, these are not neccssarily a bad thing, as long as one is aware of this mask, but if one is not it becomes a 'significant drain on your resources.' These mask types are the so called "derititive" types you mentioned a whle ago, or at least, I believe so.

    I have no methods at the moment attempting to detect if someone has a mask type, especially when the distortion of one's type lies within the P/J dimensions, where each type's ego functions are strong in the other, but it would be located within the ID.

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    How can I tell if I am operating from the logical subtype of the INTp? Is it possible for such a subtype to be mistaken for an INTj?

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    I assumed so, as on www.socionics.com, it said "...it is possible that some INTPs actually do behave in such way that they could be mistaken for Judging types. The common perception of Perceiving types is as disorganised, unreliable and wavering. There are INTPs out there that are, on the contrary, organised, reliable and unwavering or at least they may behave as such. As a result they often score as Js..." Obviously, I'm making the induction that what he meant by 'appearing as a judging type" meant having a focus upon the secondary function.

    My suggestions will be rudimentary in nature, but what I would do is to try to ascertain the method in which you're applying your logic. Are you applying it towards understanding in order to apply it practically, or are you taking practical situations and analyszing them in order to obtain a greater understanding of the situation?

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    But how to get rid of type mask? I know I am using one of my weak function as a strong one. But I don't know how to let go.
    Semiotical process

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Are you applying it towards understanding in order to apply it practically, or are you taking practical situations and analyszing them in order to obtain a greater understanding of the situation?
    Without meaning to be awkward, I don't know.

    I have only ever got INTx as a result from the STA on two occassions out of many more in which I scored INTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    I have only ever got INTx as a result from the STA on two occassions out of many more in which I scored INTj.
    It may be that the more you study socionics the less you seem to understand. I mean that the consepts are still quite fuzzy and it seems impossible to reach absolute certainty no matter what you do, but if you ask me I'd say you are an INTJ and dwelling on it any more may only add to your confusion. For a moment even I thought I could be an INFJ but no I am not - even though I would not mind if I were.

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    It may be that the more you study socionics the less you seem to understand. I mean that the consepts are still quite fuzzy and it seems impossible to reach absolute certainty no matter what you do, but if you ask me I'd say you are an INTJ and dwelling on it any more may only add to your confusion. For a moment even I thought I could be an INFJ but no I am not - even though I would not mind if I were.



    That's what has happened with me. I'm lost. There's no method to make everithing clrear to your self. To put all the knowledge into one logical story.

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    Another thing that came to my mind was that it might be useful to read Jung's original work on the Psychological Types
    His original system had only eight types defined according to their lead functions. Thus INTJs and ISTJs would both belong to the introverted thinking type, INTPs and INFPs again to the introverted intuitive type.
    The description of the introverted intuitive type may be a bit extreme but I think it does give the general picture.

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    Three questions:
    1. Is Ni a spontaneous function (ie. the Ni-type just knows what will unfold) or does it come from reasoning?
    2. Is a desire for clear, applicable methods to problems, as well as clear-cut, direct answers (both the methods and answers being immediate) a sign of Te?
    3. Could you post indirect questions to identify whether one has Ne or Ni (I'll emphasise the indirect).

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    And -

    What is The Critic's attitude towards others?

    For example, is he polite? Does he sometimes say polite greetings but mumble them somewhat? Does he not like it when people ask him for his personal opinions or to disclose personal information? Does he sometimes wonder why someone is telling him a about piece of conflict that they have had when The Critic can do nothing to help?

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    I'm now turning this post into a debate about the differences between INTjs and INTps.

    Take note:
    Why do INTPs test as INTJs? Because it is possible that some INTPs actually do behave in such way that they could be mistaken for Judging types. The common perception of Perceiving types is as disorganised, unreliable and wavering. There are INTPs out there that are, on the contrary, organised, reliable and unwavering or at least they may behave as such. As a result they often score as Js. But let's not forget that type is not about how you behave, it is about how your psyche is structured, which in return influences your behaviour in one way or another. Taking more tests or reading more type descriptions may not give an answer to the INTJ/INTP question for the reasons explained above. The right way to distinguish between these two types is by making a comparison on a "molecular" level.

    We should bear in mind that one can only see one's subjective view of the world. How do you know whether you are more creative than others? How do you know that everybody else thinks in the same way as you do, when you've thought that way of thinking to be natural?

    For that reason I think that it would be better to focus on the 'molecular' level rather than anything else, concentrating on how your psyche is structured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    1. Is Ni a spontaneous function (ie. the Ni-type just knows what will unfold) or does it come from reasoning?
    In few words Ni as function assembles a picture from unrelated pieces. If somebody can say that these pieces is completly unrelated, Ni can see an intuitive structure which binds pieces together. Moreover, pieces can be placed in the past, in the future, or in the present time. So INTp has a reason when it looks like spontaneous for others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    2. Is a desire for clear, applicable methods to problems, as well as clear-cut, direct answers (both the methods and answers being immediate) a sign of Te?
    Yes. It is a sign of Te. Especially if a person is calm and not excited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    3. Could you post indirect questions to identify whether one has Ne or Ni (I'll emphasise the indirect).
    Good question. I'll try to explain that and you'll try to imagine questions.

    Prevalence of Ne results in behaviour which can be named as 'infancy'. The Ne gives immediacy and naivety of a child as a sign.

    Prevalence of Ni results in behavour which can be named as 'victimness'. The Ni gives a desire to play with the fate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    And -

    What is The Critic's attitude towards others?

    For example, is he polite? Does he sometimes say polite greetings but mumble them somewhat?
    Sorry. There is no relations with it. For INTp it is a question of breeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Does he not like it when people ask him for his personal opinions or to disclose personal information? Does he sometimes wonder why someone is telling him a about piece of conflict that they have had when The Critic can do nothing to help?
    Collecting facts about people and binding these facts together is a some kind of hobby for INTp (when there is no Fi persons closely). Somethimes the Critic can catch an opportunity to demonstrate a good knowledge of people relations.

    Hero of Agatha Christie's books, Miss Marple is good example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Sorry. There is no relations with it. For INTp it is a question of breeding.
    What do you mean?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Prevalence of Ni results in behavour which can be named as 'victimness'. The Ni gives a desire to play with the fate.
    Do you mean that Ni results in submissive behaviour, or a scheme of behaviour that means that the type is not very assertive? If so, what do you mean by ‘fate’?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Hero of Agatha Christie's books, Miss Marple is good example.
    So, would you say that Miss Marple is an INTp, or is she just good at collecting and finding patterns in data?


    Quote Originally Posted by In the ‘INTJ or INTP?’ article, Sergei Ganin
    Moreover, INTJ's logic is their area of confidence and conservatism. This makes their logic fundamental, meaning once the rules are established, they can be applied anywhere. INTPs logic is their area of creativity. This makes their logic circumstantial and unpredictable - the rules apply here but may not apply there.
    What does he mean by ‘circumstantial’ and ‘fundamental’ logic? How can you tell if you have circumstantial or fundamental logic?


    Quote Originally Posted by In the ‘INTJ or INTP?’ article, Sergei Ganin
    Since introverted intuition is about internal wholeness or belief, this manifests itself in INTPs being highly religious and spiritual people. It is also their area of confidence and conservatism and they will not welcome anything that could disturb that internal wholeness.
    Are there are other ways is which Ni’s internal wholeness could manifest itself aside from spirituality?


    Quote Originally Posted by In the ‘INTJ or INTP?’ article, Sergei Ganin
    Extroverted intuition is about perspective and potential and because it is INTJ's creative output, their "creations" could be very unexpected and original, often bearing a high potential for future development.
    I read that INTps possess a ‘powerful and intellectual imagination’ and surely all intuitive types are imaginative?


    Quote Originally Posted by “In the ‘INTJ or INTP?’ article, Sergei Ganin
    And since you can believe in things that are not necessarily there or actually true, INTPs criticise a lot.
    What does he mean by ‘a lot’? Does he mean that they have a tendency to correct people for minute errors, like grammar, or find flaws in theories very well?


    Quote Originally Posted by In the ‘INTJ or INTP?’ article, Sergei Ganin
    Another comparison will be between Dual-seeking functions. INTPs are looking out for extroverted sensing, INTJs are looking out for extroverted feeling. Since both functions are the subconscious functions, they are likely to influence the subconscious choices. INTPs would want to go power driven, moneymaking, sometimes risky places, whereas INTJs would prefer a happy, cheerful and exciting surrounding.
    Look at this site: http://socioniko.narod.ru/en/1.3.rels/dual-3p.html, which says that ‘Both at work and at home The Critic likes peace and harmony. He values comfort, cleanness and order.’


    Quote Originally Posted by In the ‘INTJ or INTP?’ article, Sergei Ganin
    For INTJs their introverted sensing () is their nightmare. Introverted sensing is mainly about the body, its functions, sensory perceptions etc. The only way they can balance that cone is for them to be physically healthy and if this is not that important to you, you are most probably not INTJ.
    Look at this site: http://www.socionics.com/prof/intp.htm, which says ‘INTPs also look after their health and can be very captious in these matters.’ So, how can you tell whether your desire for health is a result of your hidden agenda or as a result of another function?


    Quote Originally Posted by In the ‘INTJ or INTP?’ article, Sergei Ganin
    Introverted feeling is love, affection, morality etc. It is important for an INTP to be involved with someone, to have an object of affection, to like people.
    Is there another manifestation apart from a desire to love?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    For INTp it is a question of breeding.
    What do you mean?
    I mean that it depends on his family upbringing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Prevalence of Ni results in behavour which can be named as 'victimness'. The Ni gives a desire to play with the fate.
    Do you mean that Ni results in submissive behaviour, or a scheme of behaviour that means that the type is not very assertive? If so, what do you mean by 'fate'?
    Any case in which you can become a victim but you do it anyway is a victimness behaviour. Sky diving, street racing, rock climbing, any extremal sport are big examples. Well. Ok. It can be named as 'riskiness'. Just keep in mind that Russian Socionics is using word 'victimness' (it sounds like 'victimnost' in Russian).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Hero of Agatha Christie's books, Miss Marple is good example.
    So, would you say that Miss Marple is an INTp, or is she just good at collecting and finding patterns in data?
    Yes. Miss Marple is an INTp and she is good at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by In the 'INTJ or INTP?' article, Sergei Ganin
    Moreover, INTJ's logic is their area of confidence and conservatism. This makes their logic fundamental, meaning once the rules are established, they can be applied anywhere. INTPs logic is their area of creativity. This makes their logic circumstantial and unpredictable - the rules apply here but may not apply there.
    What does he mean by 'circumstantial' and 'fundamental' logic? How can you tell if you have circumstantial or fundamental logic?
    Fundamental logic is a theoretical logic. I.e. the law of gravity is fundamental. It can be applied anywhere.
    Circumstantial logic is a practical logic. I.e. logic of car driving, logic of financial exchange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by In the 'INTJ or INTP?' article, Sergei Ganin
    Since introverted intuition is about internal wholeness or belief, this manifests itself in INTPs being highly religious and spiritual people. It is also their area of confidence and conservatism and they will not welcome anything that could disturb that internal wholeness.
    Are there are other ways is which Ni's internal wholeness could manifest itself aside from spirituality?
    Base Ni is such point of view on the reality. INTp looks around through a prism of Ni. What is visible through Ni? Others call it 'spiritual things', INTp calls it 'the reality', but only Socionics calls it 'intuitive structure'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by In the 'INTJ or INTP?' article, Sergei Ganin
    Extroverted intuition is about perspective and potential and because it is INTJ's creative output, their "creations" could be very unexpected and original, often bearing a high potential for future development.
    I read that INTps possess a 'powerful and intellectual imagination' and surely all intuitive types are imaginative?
    All NT types are imaginative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by In the 'INTJ or INTP?' article, Sergei Ganin
    And since you can believe in things that are not necessarily there or actually true, INTPs criticise a lot.
    What does he mean by 'a lot'? Does he mean that they have a tendency to correct people for minute errors, like grammar, or find flaws in theories very well?
    There is a social role of INTp. To cancel a development of any useless theory. So if you are theorist (Ti holder) with your own cool but useless or non releaseable theory, INTp can criticize you untill you give in. This is 'a lot'. Isn't? (Imagine how it will be cool for ESFp with his Ti in PoLR.) And yes, INTp can find flaws in theories very well. Practical flaws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by In the 'INTJ or INTP?' article, Sergei Ganin
    Another comparison will be between Dual-seeking functions. INTPs are looking out for extroverted sensing, INTJs are looking out for extroverted feeling. Since both functions are the subconscious functions, they are likely to influence the subconscious choices. INTPs would want to go power driven, moneymaking, sometimes risky places, whereas INTJs would prefer a happy, cheerful and exciting surrounding.
    Look at this site: http://socioniko.narod.ru/en/1.3.rels/dual-3p.html, which says that 'Both at work and at home The Critic likes peace and harmony. He values comfort, cleanness and order.'
    If there is an ESFp around there is no need of a riskiness for INTp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by In the 'INTJ or INTP?' article, Sergei Ganin
    For INTJs their introverted sensing () is their nightmare. Introverted sensing is mainly about the body, its functions, sensory perceptions etc. The only way they can balance that cone is for them to be physically healthy and if this is not that important to you, you are most probably not INTJ.
    Look at this site: http://www.socionics.com/prof/intp.htm, which says 'INTPs also look after their health and can be very captious in these matters.' So, how can you tell whether your desire for health is a result of your hidden agenda or as a result of another function?
    Pay attention that any type has any function. So every type can do anything. Only a reason is always different.
    INTj do it for yourself. It's important for INTj. INTp accepts social importance of it. In other words you can take a shower for your satisfaction because it's pleasant for you, or you can take a shower because there are no stinky people around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Quote Originally Posted by In the 'INTJ or INTP?' article, Sergei Ganin
    Introverted feeling is love, affection, morality etc. It is important for an INTP to be involved with someone, to have an object of affection, to like people.
    Is there another manifestation apart from a desire to love?
    Friendship in example.

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    Some questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Any case in which you can become a victim but you do it anyway is a victimness behaviour. Sky diving, street racing, rock climbing, any extremal sport are big examples. Well. Ok. It can be named as 'riskiness'. Just keep in mind that Russian Socionics is using word 'victimness' (it sounds like 'victimnost' in Russian).
    How does Ni result in a desire for extreme sports? Socionics descriptions make no mention of such a desire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Base Ni is such point of view on the reality. INTp looks around through a prism of Ni. What is visible through Ni? Others call it 'spiritual things', INTp calls it 'the reality', but only Socionics calls it 'intuitive structure'.
    How can you spot this, from the outside (looking at the INTp) and while actually being the INTp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    Friendship in example.
    If there is an ESFp around there is no need of a riskiness for INTp.
    If the INTp has an ESFp dual close to him, will he:
    a) Seek no more friends?
    b) Have no more need to go to risky places?
    c) Both of the above?

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