I'm very curious about this. And what FDG would say. Also. What do others observe about this. Those who know ESTps and ENFps
SLE-IEE Superego Relations (ESTp and ENFp)
I'm very curious about this. And what FDG would say. Also. What do others observe about this. Those who know ESTps and ENFps
INTp
sx/sp
I was in a class with an ESTp (male) and an ENFp (female). He mostly made fun of her, and then she would tell him that he was being mean, and he would ignore her, and continue to make fun of her. She was extremely tolerant of him (this is one seriously obnoxious ESTp), even laughing at some of his jokes/insults, and it almost seemed like flirting, in a way. Love-hate relationship.
Really?
I dunno. Cuz the relationships I have with ESTps are kinda different.
They are totally clueless about me, and I'm totally clueless about them. Even if we're close friends.
I have an ESTp friend, who's really close to me. And I got caught by surprise a few days ago when he told me he was interested in me. When he said that, he didnt sound serious imo. And knowing him for so long, I didnt think he was. Little did I know he was. Anyway, he was puzzled as to why I felt he sounded like he wasn't serious. And I was shocked that he was actually serious! Eh, I dunno.
And he also said something about me being a challenge or something. Dunno if he meant that. That's why I started this thread.
INTp
sx/sp
Come to think of it, I know a much less annoying ESTp sports coach who had a similar relationship with an ENFp in the class. She would come to class late, be generally scatter-brained. In response the ESTp would make her do suicides.
That sounds like Super-Ego relations.And he also said something about me being a challenge or something.
What do you mean? I'm trying to imagine what this relationship might look like to an observer.Originally Posted by Mea
I dunno. Cuz the relationships I have with ESTps are kinda different.
They are totally clueless about me, and I'm totally clueless about them. Even if we're close friends.
I have an ESTp friend, who's really close to me. And I got caught by surprise a few days ago when he told me he was interested in me. When he said that, he didnt sound serious imo. And knowing him for so long, I didnt think he was. Little did I know he was. Anyway, he was puzzled as to why I felt he sounded like he wasn't serious. And I was shocked that he was actually serious! Eh, I dunno.
There are various kinds of ENFps.
The easygoing-female type. Get along with them very well. Easy to understand each other, or so it seems. Never developed romantic feelings though for any of them because I know we have a very different lifestyle. Very good as friends though, they invite me at parties and I teach them maths. They might be ENFj but I don't think so.
The partygoer sexy dresser female type. Very strong initial attraction followed by quarrels and repulsion.
Bitchy ugly funny moody girl. Strange pattern, they are critical but they laugh a lot. Distance is usually kept but relations are favourable.
Moody critical male funny type. Most unstable relation. I do not allow any male to criticize me so I easy get very angry at them even when they are just joking. Although when they don't criticize me we often look like best friends from the outside - and it's true that we get along great. They just have to pay attention not to set me off.
What Mea is describing is just a guy hitting on her
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yes, but no one has ever done it the way he does. In a very ESTp way. That's how I'd describe it since I read about socionics. But it's kinda complicated. I don't really understand what he's thinking sometimes. Totally fun to be with though, and very interesting to listen to.
He does not initiate arguments or conflicts of any kind. But when someone pushes him the wrong way, he naturally reacts in an aggressive way. That's my impression of him. And he's totally at ease with this kinda "power" he wields.
He's constantly talking about how easy it is for him to get girls. And it IS easy for him. He has no problem playing them even. No guilt, no problem for him. It's almost natural for him. It's amazing just looking at him do his "thing".
INTp
sx/sp
Why would you want to understand what another person is thinking
Anyway, I don't feel like I can answer because I'm not as good as your friend with girls. I don't see the point of playing too much with them, it's fatiguing. Although I love to dance with them, I prefer to go out/date only once at time.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
In my experience, ESTp see and treat ENFp like if they were INFp. They see them as quite impractical and try to push them "to correct it". INFp accept the help (I've known some who are very self critical "why I am so weak, I must be strong" and things like that) but ENFp generally look at it from a negative perspective. Difference is that INFp think there is something wrong with them and in need for help and ENFp think they are just fine.
Coming from a family of intuitives (INTj father, ENFj mother, ENTp sister, etc), sensing was never a strong focus in my education and as a result I'm very impractical when it comes to dressing and such. And we ENFp can do some funny stuff. I remember a situation where I went to the school with the pants inverted. Hahaha. I don't like criticism but I admit that it was a very funny thing.
There are many kinds of ESTp. I had a good friend who wasn't aggressive, he even looked friendly. However, we were very different and didn't really had much in common.
Others are unhealthy, specially those coming from dysfunctional families. I consider those to be very, very low on self-esteem and are the most dangerous, because they take everything personally. I remember that I was playing with one once and I made a joke that he didn't like and give me a punch without further warning. That's where my war against what now realize were unhealthy ESTp began.
They pressed my soft spots, but I never realized that I pressed theirs too. For example, when they tried to make fun out of me when my mom used to pack lots of food in my backpack, I simply replied "so you're essentially telling me that they doesn't love you in your house...". And it was true. I heard that some of them were always on the streets because they didn't want to go home because their father was alcoholic and liked to hit everyone in sight. Dramatic stuff, you know, but ESTp liked to release their sadness in improper ways.
[]
| NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
it's not improper to an ESTp...
My best friend is ENFp...
I would describe her as very simple-minded. Unworldy, and sometimes a little slow. She's too kind hearted, and lets certain people walk over her (generally the one she really cares about...even tho she doesnt realize that they're taking advantage of her sometimes) and sometimes she wont stand for much...though she's not very good at getting her point across. She seems very flirty all the time, though she doesnt mean it ina flirtatius way, she doesn't realize it. It's just that she's too good-natured, and doesnt precive the world for what it really is. Sometimes I think she may be delusional. She frustrates me a lot, and sometimes I feel like I mother her. And, as tho I have to explain to her the ways of the world sometimes so she understands that it's not all a fairy-tale life. She seems to think so most of the time.
Regardless of this, I consider her my best friend because she still has a big heart and is a kind person. Which I wouldnt say about a lot of people. I can say I can trust her 100% and thats the biggest thing for me when it comes to relationships. I find that we always have fun no matter what we're doing or what we're not. We can have converstaion after conversation and never get tired of each other. Sometimes we'll carry on two conversations at the same time and still manage to understand each other. Generally, I feel like I have to protect her. Sometime's Ill yell at her for something that she messes up but no matter how bad it is...I generally feel like an asshole and cant stay mad at her for long, thinking that she's just not fully developed menatlly. Almost as tho she's still adolescent.
Male ENFps...frustrate the hell out of me. I can't stand their happy-go-lucky nature all the time. It's annoying, and they have a very bohemian way about them, that sorta gets to me because I find it somewhat lacks a certain amount of professionalism. Ive had two experiences with two ENFp males...innitially I was attracted to them because of their appearance (mostly their smiles) but after spending too much time with them I wanted to rip out my hair. I just dont think they have a very take charge approach to life and I can't really stand that most of the time.
So....in general ENFp's frustrate me...but I still manage to get along with them...mostly females tho. (im female ESTp)
I would never consider getting into a relationship with an ENFp male. I thought at one point I was ISTp...and every time I met and ENFp male I would get excited because of the duality factor...only to be like WTF at the end of the day. Thinking "there's NOO way this could be duality" and I would try to convince myself that it was true, it would just take time. But no...me and ENFp male...no way hose!
Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.
ENFp in need of advice about ESTp superego
Hey everybody,
Last edited by forgetmenot; 03-02-2009 at 02:03 PM.
In a nutshell, a good relationship shouldn't fuck with your head so much. I'd leave it alone.
IEE
If you are a goodlooking girl:
Please find a better suited mate.
If you are ugly:
Cling onto him.
I already responded in the other thread, but after reading this, I have something to add: based on that -sort of- stream of consciousness that you have penned down, I don't think you are IEE, but more likely IEI. Which means that guy would be your dual.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
That is actually amazing advice imho. The last girl i was into fucked with my head pretty hard and that should have been a big enough sign.
Its not something we can really give advice to you on very easily. Put it this way, if hes ESTp and you are ENFp forget about it, its not going to work. The only problem is that you could have your type wrong, or his type.
If you really cant get him out of your mind and you really want him, maybe go for him hard, but if he rejects you its time to leave for good.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
This whole thing is eerily close to one of my relationships. Why even go there if he has a girlfriend? If he wanted to be with you and only you, he'd cut that off... plain and simple. You gotta put yourself first and step back and realistically look at the situation. That's quite a long time to put up with this. If he loves you and you love him, cool...great...awesome...but to put it bluntly, tell him to sh*t or get off the pot.
follow your heart.
Maybe
that doesn't seem weird to me
Eh, i'm no relationship expert but i'd ask him about the sex thing.
If you can be bothered you could maybe start a type thread and hang around for a while. I don't think you sound ENFp but while you're here you may as well find out what others say about your type in a typing thread. I don't think an ENFp would hang around for so long with this guy like you have or are doing for a few years. It sounds to me like you are romanticising the interest in him rather than the reality which seems more like an INFp or some other type.
If you find yourself being another socionics type then it might help you find a partner and/or help to understand yourself better.
Last edited by Cyclops; 01-26-2009 at 10:25 PM.
I do agree. No one is worth pining after for years of your life if you cant have them.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
On the other hand, you don't want to look back years later with regrets. Things can be complicated.
IEI-Fe 4w3
In my mind things shouldn't be that complicated. You tell someone you like them and they either choose you or fail, but thats really my idealism. In reality you are right things can be complicated, and it often takes quite a while for someone to realise they like you.On the other hand, you don't want to look back years later with regrets. Things can be complicated.
Still though, wasting too long pining i would regret pretty hard
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Move on with your life and get out of this situation.
The relationship barely exists, according to you. You deserve, and everyone deserves a full, real relationship. A healthy relationship. Don't cut yourself short, and don't waste time.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Yes. I'm so glad I learned this myself.
And why haven't you two had sex? Maybe that's too personal. I dunno. It's just a little strange to me if you've known him that long and considered yourself so in love. Maybe it's none of my business.
bad reason. I prefer introverted people and I'm an introvert. but I don't know you so I will make no judgments.I don't think I am INFp. But I get on perfectly with Alpha Quadra though I am Delta. ESTjs are too agressive for me but one of my best friends is ESTj. I've heard also suggestions that I am ISFp, ENFj, I've considered ESFj. I believe I am more caregiving than infantile.
I believe I am extroverted cause I like introverted people. My best friends are ENTp and ISFj. The best of the best
IEI-Fe 4w3
ENFp's are infantiles, not caregivers.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I know ENFps are infantile but I think I have a lot of caregiver in me.
I agree, we all have a lot of love to give...
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
except me
SLEs and those who love them: HELP!
Imagine an SLE falling for an IEE.
What would the SLE find most puzzling and possibly frustrating about the IEE? What, on the other hand, would s/he find endearing, interesting, and appealing?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I have never observed a SLE-IEE relationship so these answers are purely theoretical.
I'd imagine the propensity to open up options instead of pointing out the most viable, most likely to work course of action. Since you're both EPs you're both extraverting Pe function, while Pi is an area both of you are weak in
likely your ethical side, ability to deal with problems that require cooperation with greater ease than he would be inclined to; spontaneity as it should remind him that both of you are alike, as long as you don't use it on him when he is in need of some of that course-narrowing Ni
Yes, that does annoy him a great deal. He will provide a solution and I point out other ways of doing it. Then he gets annoyed and says something like "well, do what you think is best" and refuses to deal with it any longer.I'd imagine the propensity to open up options instead of pointing out the most viable, most likely to work course of action.
When I am driving and he tells me to do something (change lanes, turn, etc.), I tend to ask why before I do anything. It drives him CRAZY. He wants me to just do it and to trust his judgment (which is quite sound).
Yes, that sounds right.likely your ethical side, ability to deal with problems that require cooperation with greater ease than he would be inclined to; spontaneity as it should remind him that both of you are alike, as long as you don't use it on him when he is in need of some of that course-narrowing Ni
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
He probably sees a goal as something of a fixed nature. To achieve it, he takes the most direct route. He can follow actions through to a goal without second guessing himself. When you split up the solutions, he probably feels confused as to what you want, and this sort of thing can be hurtful, as it feels like dismissal. The problem with Ne-ers is that they seem enjoy the process of talking about actions as much as doing them, especially in the middle of the action in question, which can be disconcerting. I tend to think Ne-ers sort of want to understand the action on an intellectual level? Ann wrote a post comparing the two once that was pretty good. I am not always sure how to deal with Ne because I feel like I can't help turning into Scrooge (the alternative is turning into something of a caregiver which is tiring as we are not on the same mental level anymore and also someday I will snap and shove the spoon down their throat). It's also disconcerting when you want to share the happiness in accomplishing something and all the Ne-er wants to do is to be let out of their cage to chase their possibility butterflies.
He will love it if you help him plan things out, talk to him about concepts, and help him figure out the best course of action to take. I think it could work if you supply more of the technical aspects of decisions and he carries them out. The problem will be, ime, that you will tend to overlap each other's realms of expertise.
ESTps also like it when you're "cute", I tend to downplay my seriousness around them because when I operate on a less outwardly emotionally expressive level, it starts to feel like we are competing and the distance grows greater. They are not adaptable people, and they are needy emotionally, so you probably have to like that to some degree.
disaster in the making, sorry
It has been a five-year disaster so far.disaster in the making, sorry
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
maybe (like you said) he's not SLE. the gnome thing sounds like something Fi types might do - at least, i've noticed Fi types finding indirect ways to address issues like that, if they address them at all. i think Betas prefer to address things very directly - to Betas i think the gnome thing would just be seen as avoidance of the truth.It has been a five-year disaster so far.disaster in the making, sorry
You know, I don't think I have ever been this confused about someone's type.maybe (like you said) he's not SLE. the gnome thing sounds like something Fi types might do - at least, i've noticed Fi types finding indirect ways to address issues like that, if they address them at all. i think Betas prefer to address things very directly - to Betas i think the gnome thing would just be seen as avoidance of the truth.
It has been a five-year disaster so far.
He could be Se-SEE.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
just piping in that I agree with silverchris (and enjoyed the post!)
I don't know any SLE-IEE relationships... In fact, the SLEs I know act like they can smell delta NFs from far off and avoid them. But maybe this is different, and/or maybe he's SEE!
IEI-Fe 4w3
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