Not many people talk positively about their significant others...if you notice. Even those that are 'happy' tend to focus a lot on the bad...it's just conversation and sometimes i think the "macho" guys are too afraid of appearing weak if they spoke positively about their girlfriends/wives/whatever.
well sometimes people go through a dip in relations, that can test the relationship. and either it can "return" and come back, or it can kind of stay down, and people can become accustomed to it. if it stays down, sometmies people juts stay in bad relationships, and then speak more positively about it.Originally Posted by forgetmenot
i'm not like everyone, but i've noticed with me when relations with people are good i often speak "negatively" of people, and when they're worse i talk "positively".
it's like when teyh're so good that you can speak negatively and they're still positive it's like you know that you're not really worried about the relationship at all.. and that's where i think things should be.
maybe they're not really happy then.
Relationships are sometimes really difficult. You don't want anybody to get hurt but it's impossible... You don't always make good choices.
There is this Polish poet and her poem:
True love. Is it normal,
is it serious, is it practical?
What does the world get from two people
who exist in a world of their own?
Placed on the same pedestal for no good reason,
drawn randomly from millions, but convinced
it had to happen this way--in reward for what? For nothing.
The light descends from nowhere.
Why on these two and not others?
Doesn't this outrage justice? Yes it does.
Doesn't it disrupt our painstakingly erected principles,
and cast the moral from the peak? Yes on both accounts.
Look at the happy couple.
Couldn't they at least try to hide it,
fake a little depression for their friends' sake!
Listen to them laughing--it's an insult.
The language they use--deceptively clear.
And their little celebrations, rituals,
the elaborate mutual routines--
it's obviously a plot behind the human race's back!
It's hard even to guess how far things might go
if people start to follow their example.
What could religion and poetry count on?
What would be remembered? what renounced?
Who'd want to stay within bounds?
True love. Is it really necessary?
Tact and common sense tell us to pass over it in silence,
like a scandal in Life's highest circles.
Perfectly good children are born without its help.
It couldn't populate the planet in a million years,
it comes along so rarely.
Let the people who never find true love
keep saying that there's no such thing.
Their faith will make it easier for them to live and die.
I know ENFps are infantile but I think I have a lot of caregiver in me.
Thank youI would go with it myself I have nothing to lose. But there's his girlfriend and his life and it's his choice. I do not feel happy in this situation but at least it doesn't depend on me.
I agree, we all have a lot of love to give...
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
except me
SLE's are the most tender-hearted around. We have a saying in Dutch: "Big mouth, tiny heart" (tiny heart means one that easily overflows with emotion). So I'll take your denial as a confirmation.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
'tis true.
IEI-Fe 4w3
off topic: How to make an SLE cry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOkh....nl/media.html
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
That linked to this video.
lol, that ad was hilarious (the "up, up" one)
IEI-Fe 4w3
This sounds like a very Beta sort of romance, in that there is a lot of drama and it has been going on for a long time (not to say that doesn't happen in other quadras, but I've noticed that Betas can sort of act things out in a way that looks like a movie, and instead of feeling that is uncomfortable, the drama can sort of excite them).
The INFp I knew came across as kind of caregiving also, so not saying you are that type, because I don't know you, but you might consider it...some INFps are very outgoing and social because of the F.
I hope it works out
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
I very much agree with this, I thinkThis sounds like a very Beta sort of romance, in that there is a lot of drama and it has been going on for a long time (not to say that doesn't happen in other quadras, but I've noticed that Betas can sort of act things out in a way that looks like a movie, and instead of feeling that is uncomfortable, the drama can sort of excite them).
The INFp I knew came across as kind of caregiving also, so not saying you are that type, because I don't know you, but you might consider it...some INFps are very outgoing and social because of the F.
I hope it works outdramatized relationship to a new level that is sometimes unhealthy and very much have a movie like theme in their quest to find their ideal in love.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
To all of you who are curious - yesterday he told me he cannot break up with his girlfriend when she's abroad and he is not sure if he can break up with her at all. So... all in all I ended up an idiot or a whore or maybe both.
It's time to look for some decent SLI guy... cause the last one I met was very nice but he ended kissing my best friend's girlfriend at my party.
That's why I think N people get on better with each other... S people are too much into sex.
lol it's probably just immaturity and/or not being ready for a commitment. When S people are ready to commit, they can. You have to think long term and try to see the big picture played out over decades.
oh, and sorry to hear about your situation but at least you have an answer.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I bet I have an answer and I am going to stick to it cause the ESTp is immature as well. He's telling me he needs time but and he's afraid and that's the most difficult situation in his life. Redbaron would you look at my photos in type thread and say what you think?
SLEs and those who love them: HELP!
Imagine an SLE falling for an IEE.
What would the SLE find most puzzling and possibly frustrating about the IEE? What, on the other hand, would s/he find endearing, interesting, and appealing?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Everybody says that, and it doesnt seem to bother ENFps either that people say that.ENFp's are stinky
I have never observed a SLE-IEE relationship so these answers are purely theoretical.
I'd imagine the propensity to open up options instead of pointing out the most viable, most likely to work course of action. Since you're both EPs you're both extraverting Pe function, while Pi is an area both of you are weak in
likely your ethical side, ability to deal with problems that require cooperation with greater ease than he would be inclined to; spontaneity as it should remind him that both of you are alike, as long as you don't use it on him when he is in need of some of that course-narrowing Ni
The Ne/Se is obvious with us, the Ti/Fi not so much...I am still a bit undecided between SEE and SLE for him (I know it sounds ridiculous).
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Yes, that does annoy him a great deal. He will provide a solution and I point out other ways of doing it. Then he gets annoyed and says something like "well, do what you think is best" and refuses to deal with it any longer.I'd imagine the propensity to open up options instead of pointing out the most viable, most likely to work course of action.
When I am driving and he tells me to do something (change lanes, turn, etc.), I tend to ask why before I do anything. It drives him CRAZY. He wants me to just do it and to trust his judgment (which is quite sound).
Yes, that sounds right.likely your ethical side, ability to deal with problems that require cooperation with greater ease than he would be inclined to; spontaneity as it should remind him that both of you are alike, as long as you don't use it on him when he is in need of some of that course-narrowing Ni
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
He probably sees a goal as something of a fixed nature. To achieve it, he takes the most direct route. He can follow actions through to a goal without second guessing himself. When you split up the solutions, he probably feels confused as to what you want, and this sort of thing can be hurtful, as it feels like dismissal. The problem with Ne-ers is that they seem enjoy the process of talking about actions as much as doing them, especially in the middle of the action in question, which can be disconcerting. I tend to think Ne-ers sort of want to understand the action on an intellectual level? Ann wrote a post comparing the two once that was pretty good. I am not always sure how to deal with Ne because I feel like I can't help turning into Scrooge (the alternative is turning into something of a caregiver which is tiring as we are not on the same mental level anymore and also someday I will snap and shove the spoon down their throat). It's also disconcerting when you want to share the happiness in accomplishing something and all the Ne-er wants to do is to be let out of their cage to chase their possibility butterflies.
He will love it if you help him plan things out, talk to him about concepts, and help him figure out the best course of action to take. I think it could work if you supply more of the technical aspects of decisions and he carries them out. The problem will be, ime, that you will tend to overlap each other's realms of expertise.
ESTps also like it when you're "cute", I tend to downplay my seriousness around them because when I operate on a less outwardly emotionally expressive level, it starts to feel like we are competing and the distance grows greater. They are not adaptable people, and they are needy emotionally, so you probably have to like that to some degree.
Yes. Don't go all Mother Gaia Fi on his ass, or he will get confused. ESTps are skittish and if you want them to do something you have to work up to it. Be tactful, but not too earnest, it will go over his head. Don't repress your emotions for the greater good. Let your little complaints, your falterings, your weaknesses hang out. Present them in a funny, ironic, self deprecating manner. Express everything that you'd rather not. Present it in a semi helpless way. If you get too impassioned and worked up, he may think you're a bitch. Behind the scenes, you'll be an emotional rock. You can pretty much get him to do anything for love as long as he trusts you.That sounds about right. Be emotionally supportive, and try not to be too irritated by the Ti or use too much Fi.
If he's a 7 he'll probably appreciate your willingness to go out and do whatever. I think it'll be a bit activity-ish in nature, which will be fun
Along with the other great advice others gave:
It might help if you establish a couple of simple codes that are non-criticizing in nature. For example, when you're about to start opening up the options he may not be aware of, say the code word/phrase that will let him know that what you are about to say is just a brainstorm of ideas, and that you understand that he has the right/ability to say no to any of them, and it won't bother you, because you're not attached to them.
When you want to share some insight, whether of Ne or Fi or Whatever nature, say a code that will let him know that the following is what You see, but you recognize that he sees things you Don't see, and that it won't bother you if he dismisses some of the info you're passing on.
And if you believe somewhat strongly in something, give a code that lets him know that you would greatly appreciate if he kept this value of yours in mind when he makes his decision or takes his action.
Maybe have him come up with a code that will let you know that he's giving his reasons, so that you will know what his plan is, and why he chose that plan. If he doesn't see the importance of the code, let him know that he sees things and has experiences that you don't. Let him know that you are asking him to help you understand, to see things his way, and that his doing this will give you experiences that you wouldn't normally get.
One great code word for him letting you know that he's going to take a certain course of action, period, he's already decided, is Rhino, or Rhinocerous (however it's spelled). It puts to mind the image of a charging rhino, who's already focused on his goal and his path, and is moving to it, whatever may be in his way.
When he's talking/doing something, and you've just got to talk/do something completely random and unrelated, say Squirrel or Bird. This would let him know that you are temporarily distracted, but as soon as you've chased this squirrel/bird down, you'll return to what you two were doing.
Little code words like that can greatly help with communication issues and prevent problems related to what the code symbolizes.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
^That is a good idea, but IMO, you gotta be more subtle than that. An SLE is likely to have the same reaction as I did to those code words, which is: What the hell? Like, why the fuck would I randomly say rhinoceros right before I say something? Why wouldn't I just say it...? So, I would say, do something that serves the same purpose, but without a sort of code system that an SLE (imo) is likely to find silly without being entertaining SLEs only like entertaining-silly, not functional-silly. Functional is functional; silly is silly. Although light-hearted jokes during serious situations (as long as the situation isn't TOO serious) are usually appreciated. And even then, if you have a morbid enough SLE, you can joke about (almost) anything. Although there will be unexpected subjects about which you cannot joke, in all likelihood.
Anyway, I would say, use something more akin to: "Hey, I'm sure you know what to do, but I just thought I'd point out that..." I would say this in a somewhat silly/quasi-subserviant tone of voice which is semi-mocking but not really. (I never really noticed all these things that I do naturally that are super good fits with SLEs). And then when SLE comes back with, "No, we're just going to take I-30, because that leads to where we're going," I'd respond with, "Oh, well, yeah, you know what you're doing. Got it." Or if they were actually wrong, I'd escalate a level without signaling that I'm angry. So it would be like, "No, I'm pretty sure we need to take I-45, because if we take I-30, we're going to hit some traffic I read about in the news." But I suppose at this point I'm basically just telling you to be an IEI, so this probably isn't helpful.
Anyway, you can also sort of tell him what he needs to do to make you happy. So if he needs to use a silly keyword to be clear with you how you're communicating, he probably won't mind (well, actually, he probably will mind, but he'll be willing to do it for twoo wuv
What else? Tone of voice matters a lot to SLEs---you can say some pretty mean stuff without offending them if you say it in the right tone. If you have to say something harsh to them, imagine saying it in such a way that you can finish the statement with this smiley face:. I mean, don't do that for something major, like, "Your failure to act caused this six month old child to die
Also, don't be afraid to argue with them and call them out on their bullshit---SLEs are very good at being able to argue with you (as long as you don't trip certain wires) without getting their feelings hurt. It's like sparring. Although that might be more of a guy-guy thing or a general buddy thing than a thing they do with their significant other. But I dunno, most of the Beta STs I know would, I imagine, enjoy a bit of verbal sparring with their partners.
Also, they kinda require a lot of positive reinforcement. They'll pull out all the stops to fuckin save you from a bullet going towards your head, but if you don't throw in some "wow, you really saved me, you kinda rock as a boyfriend" type comments, they'll feel slighted. They love fulfilling their duties, and as your boyfriend you can bet SLE feels like he has major duties as far as helping and supporting you. But if they don't get a decent amount of praise and thanks for it, even though you may never hear a complaint about it (after all, you're not supposed to want praise for things that you were supposed to do anyway), they won't be happy about it.
Alright, there are some thoughts for now. Hope that helps.
EDIT: Oh, and also everything dolphin said is right. Especially the bit about how they like it when you're cute. Outwardly cute but secretly very capable (i.e., every IEI ever) is very likable to SLEs. In fact, in general, any sort of disconnect between external presentation and actual reality intrigues them. Turns on their Ni-DS, desire for reading symbols. They tend to like "you habitually act like x, but you are really like y." They don't so much like "you feel like x, but you are not expressing x in a way that I can feel it. In fact, you're behaving more like you're feeling y." That confuses them. If you're angry, say you're angry, that sort of thing.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
hmm may be he is SEE then ... this is something that stood out for me with my SEE ex that he disliked when I asked the "why" questions and not just of him but of other people as well, though I am not sure that this is type related
I've known some Ne-users who have led very active lifestyles so I don't think that they like talking more than doing stuff, but in conversation they do tend to express these sorts of permutations and word play and contradictory possibilities and give you a broad selection of options of how something could play out. For a Ni-user this is confusing, which then leads to frustrating. Like having your Ni with all its craziness turned inside-out and suddenly splashed out on you, eek!
Thanks all! I am too tired to respond at length, but will do so tomorrow. Just briefly, we have gone over to prefacing a lot of what we say to make sure we don't misunderstand each other. Actually, and you may laugh, what has made things A LOT easier is that whenever we are annoyed by little things, we blame it on the gnomes. Gnome and Gnomette live with us and cause mischief around the house (puppy gnome recently moved in with our dog). So when we say "could you please tell gnome to do/not do xyz" the other person knows what's up. It especially works well when he annoys me because he often misinterprets what I say and thinks it's passive aggressive.
Yes, cute works, lol. Although he pretends that he does not like cute.
I have a problem with the whole Fe thing. He is very verbally expressive with regards to his feelings and I catch myself thinking "if you want to show me that you love me, take me out on a day trip." Don't get me wrong, of course it's sweet and touching, but he expects me do respond the same way and it just doesn't feel natural to me.
I think we have some pretty good strategies in place and yes, he is a 7 (I am pretty sure), so we have a lot of fun.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
PS: I am still not 100% sure that he is SLE. He might be SEE, but I just don't have all those misunderstandings with SEEs.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
disaster in the making, sorry
It has been a five-year disaster so far.disaster in the making, sorry
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
maybe (like you said) he's not SLE. the gnome thing sounds like something Fi types might do - at least, i've noticed Fi types finding indirect ways to address issues like that, if they address them at all. i think Betas prefer to address things very directly - to Betas i think the gnome thing would just be seen as avoidance of the truth.It has been a five-year disaster so far.disaster in the making, sorry
You know, I don't think I have ever been this confused about someone's type.maybe (like you said) he's not SLE. the gnome thing sounds like something Fi types might do - at least, i've noticed Fi types finding indirect ways to address issues like that, if they address them at all. i think Betas prefer to address things very directly - to Betas i think the gnome thing would just be seen as avoidance of the truth.
It has been a five-year disaster so far.
He could be Se-SEE.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
just piping in that I agree with silverchris (and enjoyed the post!)
I don't know any SLE-IEE relationships... In fact, the SLEs I know act like they can smell delta NFs from far off and avoid them. But maybe this is different, and/or maybe he's SEE!
IEI-Fe 4w3
Well, isn't that just peachy...
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Well, she shouldn't be making all the compromises, obviously. You should be asking him to behave in a more SLI-y way in some ways as well; any relationship is about compromise. We're (theoretically) helping you to see what he (presumably, probably, likely) wants/needs---presumably YOU know what you want/need and can ask him to give that to you.Well, isn't that just peachy...
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
nah, just be yourself - he did choose to be with you not someone elseWell, isn't that just peachy...
i saw this article some time ago which ranks the strength of super-ego relations close to duality and over other intra-quadra relations, which was surprising, but I've seen a few successful long-term super-ego relationships so I think there is something to it - the main problem in them I'd say is to attribute disagreements to the other person having a direct intent to mess things up
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