Is the socionics model really a model?

[Rick]

I've had this thought for a while. Is Model A really a "model" in the strict sense of the word? Does it model anything? Or is it just called a "model" for lack of a better word? Is Freud's concept of Ego, Super-Ego, and Id also a model then?

To me, the socionics Model A seems like a general description of static perceptual traits and basic psychic characteristics. Changes, or events, or not "modeled" by the "model." I understand what a "weather model" is, because it models probable future changes in weather. Model A does not actually "model" anything.

Has anyone else had this thought?

[machintruc]

I've had this thought for a while. Is Model A really a "model" in the strict sense of the word? Does it model anything? Or is it just called a "model" for lack of a better word? Is Freud's concept of Ego, Super-Ego, and Id also a model then?

To me, the socionics Model A seems like a general description of static perceptual traits and basic psychic characteristics. Changes, or events, or not "modeled" by the "model." I understand what a "weather model" is, because it models probably future changes in weather. Model A does not actually "model" anything.

Has anyone else had this thought?

Model means some kind of "reproduction", but model A, as said here, has limitations ; for example Model A is static.

[misutii]

I took a cognitive psych course this year, i see model A and all the other socionics jargon in the same light that I see cognitive psych jargon. Things that have no viewable substance i.e. Long-term memory, Extroverted feeling, are classified so as to make them teachable and understandable to other people, once you've proven to others that the existence of these "models" has pragmatic value then you can begin searching for a better explanation to refine said models. i.e. in cognitive psych the existence of "short-term" memory is now controversial for the model has been refined and this refinement has led to evidence supporting that "short-term memory" is actually intricately connected to something else... I forget exactly what because I was hurredly reading the textbook before the exam, funny how I decide to talk about something that I've forgotten about after discussing memory, lol

[Expat]

To me, the socionics Model A seems like a general description of static perceptual traits and basic psychic characteristics. Changes, or events, or not "modeled" by the "model." I understand what a "weather model" is, because it models probable future changes in weather. Model A does not actually "model" anything.

It does, it is a model to predict as well as explain human relationships.

If you propose that a person with as base function is going to get along better with someone with dual-seeking than PoLR, that's already modelling.

[aestrivex]

i think this discussion is entirely rhetorical and a complete waste of time. it's much more useful to discuss the implications and intricacies of socionics rather than whether it should be called a model or not.

[Rick]

i think this discussion is entirely rhetorical and a complete waste of time. it's much more useful to discuss the implications and intricacies of socionics rather than whether it should be called a model or not.

You're probably right. Take this as an example of an IEE splitting hairs about . "Much insight about nothing."

[Jarno]

i say it's a model.

It describes at least which roles are played by the different functions.

you can put the functions of each one of the 16 types in it, and it explains something.

so... it's a model.

[machintruc]

i say it's a model.

It describes at least which roles are played by the different functions.

you can put the functions of each one of the 16 types in it, and it explains something.

so... it's a model.

Basically in the West we don't really know other models.

This is the list of the models I ever heard of :

- Model A, the only model we really know in the West.
- Model J, based on the functions 1245 of the Model A.
- Model X, based on 4 functions of the Model A, with functions 1256.
- Model K, which seems to be almost the same.
- Model T, based on the four jungian functions with thresholds of inhibition and excitation for each of them.
- Model M, saw the name on Socionics Institute, but don't know it, because of lack of information.
- Model AM, which is called "dynamic" with dimensionality and gears and weird flat projections which seems to mean very little to me.
- Model A3D, which is the cubic representation of Model A.
- Models B, G, F, and H, don't know.

[Blaze]

@Rick: no i don't think model A by itself is a model. it's only a model if intertype relations is attached to it.

[Jarno]

maybe it would get more simple if we would first define the word "model"

There are lots of models, the way something is pulled by gravity for example. It is a formula or description which is the underlying principle of something. So that's why I would claim that Model-A is a model.

[machintruc]

maybe it would get more simple if we would first define the word "model"

According to Wiktionary, MODEL means :

"A simplified representation (usually mathematical) used to explain the workings of a real world system or event."

simplified representation : let's suppose we're dealing with Model A, which is a simplified representation of the psyche.
explain the workings of a real world system : of the same psyche, which is a real world system.

Using that definition, Model A is a model.

[Jarno]

Using that definition, Model A is a model.

exactly!