ENFps the introverted extroverted type

[krieger]

Gulenko's description says about them that they are 'quiet, even though they are extrovert'.

Smilingeyes' work identifies their accepting function as 'socially closed', which means they are only secondarily 'involved' in social matters.

They are 'the most abstract of types' according to some of Smilex' estimations. Both of their functions are 'internal', which should mean they don't like to take rigid stances to issues but rather take an accomodative position. In addition, they are bona-fide perceivers and extroverts, which we might assume points to a need to look outward for motivation.

In one thread I estimated the 'social confidence' of functions and types, which resulted with ENFp as one of the types with the lowest values. (though this did not take temperament based extroversion in account)

So what kind of a picture of a person do these attributes create? Is the ENFp the type most likely to mistake themselves for introverts or something?

[Mea]

I agree with the above.

Mistyped as introverts? Maybe. I used to think I was an introvert.

[Topaz]

Gulenko's description says about them that they are 'quiet, even though they are extrovert'.

I find it comfortable to speak one on one or in small groups. Perhaps others would agree.

Smilingeyes' work identifies their accepting function as 'socially closed', which means they are only secondarily 'involved' in social matters.

we can be non-challant about such things.

They are 'the most abstract of types' according to some of Smilex' estimations. Both of their functions are 'internal', which should mean they don't like to take rigid stances to issues but rather take an accomodative position. In addition, they are bona-fide perceivers and extroverts, which we might assume points to a need to look outward for motivation.

We can be amuzed with our own thoughts and projects for hours, but eventually we need to connect with others. Best case senario is to have a non-demanding, even tempered sidekick/best friend.istp

In one thread I estimated the 'social confidence' of functions and types, which resulted with ENFp as one of the types with the lowest values. (though this did not take temperament based extroversion in account)

What does this mean?

So what kind of a picture of a person do these attributes create? Is the ENFp the type most likely to mistake themselves for introverts or something?

I believed I was IEI for a while. After considering genuine IEIs I could see a clear difference. IEEs can seem very contradictory. We have many sides. Attention is directed both inward and outward. It is a journey of becoming.

[mikemex]

I just came back from a party.

People got astonished that I didn't want to dance, nor I wanted talk to others very much. Thing is, I didn't feel uncomfortable, simply "yeah, whatever...". What astonished them is that I'm overly loud when I'm interested into talking to someone and can be really contrasting.

"Hmmm, and you seemed quiet!" (or "innocent" )

Rather than self confidence, I think ENFp are simply less interested in the external world, even less than some introverts. There was an ISFj girl at the party who seemed more lively than me. Even an ISTp friend of mine.

But I don't believe it has to do with abstractions and things like that. It could be simply that I don't give a shit about parties in which I must lose my individuality and just become a part of the mass. I'm an individual first and a member of a group second when interacting socially.

[aestrivex]

except you are not an ENFp and never will be.

[eunice]

ENFps are the most "introverted" among all the extraverts imo. I guess that's why everyone (both extraverts and introverts) likes them? :wink:

[flower]

ENTp's would give ENFp's a battle for the title of most introverted extroverts.

I have unfortunately only met 2 ENFp's, but they both liked to banter a lot, they do it with a lot of fun, I imagine this is common among all ENFp's.

[Phaedrus]

ENTp's would give ENFp's a battle for the title of most introverted extroverts.

Yes, both types battle for the title of the most introverted extraverts. They both have a clear tendency not to realize that they are extraverts. I have seen that phenomenon in several real life ENTps and ENFps.

[mikemex]

ENFps are the most "introverted" among all the extraverts imo. I guess that's why everyone (both extraverts and introverts) likes them? :wink:

Could be. This ENTj friend of mine invited me to the party and brought his ISFj female friend with him. She liked me very much, we were joking insanely all the way back.

[jewels]

This enfp-who-appears-like-an-introvert stuff is something I've thought of a lot!! And yes, I have thought I was an introvert.

Sometimes I talk non-stop. Other times I have nothing to say. A lot of people tell me that I seem introverted. They're shocked I'm extroverted. Other people say I'm the most outgoing person they know. Some people say I have a quiet "reserve" like princess diana. Other people say "how could you ever think you were introverted?" Some random guy at the bar last night said I seemed introverted. But my introvert friends say I bring them out of their shell and otherwise, if they're around other introverts they'll just start reading.

It's all very confusing.

I think some of that quietness is due to not wanting to draw a lot of attention to myself in public (because I'm self conscious). But, no one is aware that I am self conscious. People I've told that to were shocked.

Back to the quiet thing...hmm. Yeah, I'll stand there quietly at a party if I don't know a lot of people. I may or may not start blabbing away. If I'm telling a funny story to people though, I will forget that I'm self conscious and find myself crawing on the ground to imitate something I saw someone doing. or, I might be acting like a lobster or showing them what it looks like when someone pretends to know how to hip hop dance.

But if I'm not caught up in that, I will look more reserved.

Can other ENFPs relate to this?

Oh man, this is going to be a long post...

I just thought that another reason I can act quiet, is that I like to act appropriately in situations. I have random friends and end up at random places and don't always know what is going on. So I observe other people and pick up what is the protocol. I probably look quiet while I'm doing that.

Like, I'm not republican at all. But I used to have some friends who were conservative republicans politicians. So I'd be at some after-election party after the polls closed, thinking, "gosh, i hope they don't ask what my politics are."

Or, I'll end up at a Jewish singles event when I'm not Jewish or single. Or, become friends with a clique of catholic girls who talk about church, when I'm not religious. Add to that my gay friends, mormon friends, gay-mormon friends, bar hopping friends, salsa dancing friends (usually from other countries ) -- point is, most of the time I don't have the same values/beliefs as my friends. So I think because of this, I end up in situations where I don't really know what's up, and act quiet until I figure out how to act, and also if I'm quiet I won't accidentally say things that will offend people, until I figure out how much kidding around is acceptable in whatever group I'm in.

Also, I think I'm louder when I'm around quiet people. But around loud people, I just let them be loud and listen like an introvert would. I think that's why I really like quiet people, because I can talk more and be the leader of the group more, without stepping on other extroverts's toes.

But I am quiet. Sometimes.

and sometimes I'm really serious, and that probably makes me look quiet. But other times, I'm just acting ridiculous and silly. It's beyond silly really.

So I hope that helps explain it. But maybe other ENFPs have a different take on it?

[machintruc]

ENFps are the most "introverted" among all the extraverts imo. I guess that's why everyone (both extraverts and introverts) likes them? :wink:

not ENTp ?

[Slacker]

I can be very outgoing or I can be very withdrawn. It depends on how comfortable I am in a group.

I could have convinced myself I was an INFp if I'd worked on it and allowed myself a few delusions. Of course I also could have convinced myself I was an ENFj if I'd worked at it and allowed myself a few delusions. LOL. Though if I were one of those types none of my relationships would make sense as far as Socionics goes.

[Rick]

I happen to be working on a lengthy functional description of IEE at the moment...

What I have noticed is that, as with other types, initial behavior can vary widely from IEE to IEE depending on how much the person identifies with the situation and the people there, whether he is a socialite or a "selective communicator," etc. I'm definitely the second type, and in some situations I can be very reserved, but yet at the same time always extremely observant of everything going on. In large groups with an feel, I usually keep to the sidelines until I gradually get to know individuals. I can identify with Mikemex -- not really participating, but not feeling unconfident because of it. It's funny to see SLIs sometimes jump into groups, quickly get disillusioned and/or burned, and then reject much of the group, while IEEs sometimes do just the opposite -- holding back, selectively building relationships, and eventually becoming prominent in the group. If the group's not for me, I usually never show my "true face," and people never have an accurate impression of me.

In more formal situations like meeting a new potential partner, giving or taking interviews, making initial contact with people, etc. most IEEs feel confident and seem very extraverted (me included). I've known one IEE, however, who hadn't developed a "I'm a really competent guy" persona and instead holed up and didn't say much in these situations, which seemed strange to me.

I know a couple IEEs who said they didn't become their normal outgoing selves until they were in their 30s. I see this in myself, too (I'm 29). Each year brings more social confidence and less fear. Some younger IEEs try to live like hermits or "closet intellectuals" who sit home and do some "great" work, but age seems to always pull them out into the real world, where they end up staying. In any case, I don't know a single IEE who can stay balanced after spending the day alone. Often, they (we) are clueless about what our basic needs are and try to ignore them -- including social needs. Often IEEs think an "abstract connection" with people they've never met or barely know will do, but it doesn't. There has to be eating together, walking and talking, etc. etc.

ramble ramble... ...

[Mea]

I happen to be working on a lengthy functional description of IEE at the moment...

What I have noticed is that, as with other types, initial behavior can vary widely from IEE to IEE depending on how much the person identifies with the situation and the people there, whether he is a socialite or a "selective communicator," etc. I'm definitely the second type, and in some situations I can be very reserved, but yet at the same time always extremely observant of everything going on. In large groups with an feel, I usually keep to the sidelines until I gradually get to know individuals. I can identify with Mikemex -- not really participating, but not feeling unconfident because of it. It's funny to see SLIs sometimes jump into groups, quickly get disillusioned and/or burned, and then reject much of the group, while IEEs sometimes do just the opposite -- holding back, selectively building relationships, and eventually becoming prominent in the group. If the group's not for me, I usually never show my "true face," and people never have an accurate impression of me.

In more formal situations like meeting a new potential partner, giving or taking interviews, making initial contact with people, etc. most IEEs feel confident and seem very extraverted (me included). I've known one IEE, however, who hadn't developed a "I'm a really competent guy" persona and instead holed up and didn't say much in these situations, which seemed strange to me.

I know a couple IEEs who said they didn't become their normal outgoing selves until they were in their 30s. I see this in myself, too (I'm 29). Each year brings more social confidence and less fear. Some younger IEEs try to live like hermits or "closet intellectuals" who sit home and do some "great" work, but age seems to always pull them out into the real world, where they end up staying. In any case, I don't know a single IEE who can stay balanced after spending the day alone. Often, they (we) are clueless about what our basic needs are and try to ignore them -- including social needs. Often IEEs think an "abstract connection" with people they've never met or barely know will do, but it doesn't. There has to be eating together, walking and talking, etc. etc.

ramble ramble... ...

Love that bolded part.

Usually, when I meet new people, I can roughly get a feel whether or not I can get along with them. Groups or individuals. And I tend to hold back, observing the people before I actually start interacting with them. And IF I feel uncomfortable with certain people, I can get very quiet.

Reminds me when I first got to know this group of people (ESFj, ISFp, ENFj). Most uncomfortable. Got along best with the ISFp, but the whole group atmosphere was just.. wrong. Well, point was, I was extremely quiet. I think they thought I was weird. And the not revealing "true self" thing? I agree.

[Jonathan]

In any case, I don't know a single IEE who can stay balanced after spending the day alone. Often, they (we) are clueless about what our basic needs are and try to ignore them -- including social needs. Often IEEs think an "abstract connection" with people they've never met or barely know will do, but it doesn't. There has to be eating together, walking and talking, etc. etc.

I think this is a good point. The tone of this thread further up has been in the direction of seeing IEE types as indistinguishable from the most introverted of all people. While some IEEs I've known sometimes have a "loner" look to them and sometimes like to talk about their "inner depth" and all that, in my experience they generally don't like to spend as much time alone as some of the more introverted types.

[Rick]

Here's that description I was talking about.

[aestrivex]

that's gotta be the longest socionics description for a single type that i've seen.

[Rick]

that's gotta be the longest socionics description for a single type that i've seen.

I've seen longer
Trying to write a type description is an interesting exercise. You find there are so many routes you can take. Until you try, it's hard to know what I'm talking about.

[Mea]

Wow, I've really gotta say this. That's an amazing description. All the strengths & weaknesses, very well put.

[krieger]

ENTp's would give ENFp's a battle for the title of most introverted extroverts.

Yes, both types battle for the title of the most introverted extraverts. They both have a clear tendency not to realize that they are extraverts. I have seen that phenomenon in several real life ENTps and ENFps.

There is one thing that I believe tilts the balance in the ENFp's favor: negativism. According to Gulenko (was it him or some other socionics top dog?) it is one of the major determinants in wether a person will appear reserved or not.

[Slacker]

Wow that's long. If anyone doesn't understand us after that . . . hmm well I don't know what to think.

[Topaz]

Bravo Rick. That was quite comprehensive and acurate. Anyone wondering if they are IEE but are not sure should read this. If they arent sure afterwards they are not IEE. This might be the best description I read of our type.

[jewels]

Thank you Rick, for putting that together! I really like that description. A lot of it is SO true! Have you written these for other types? I'd love to see an ISTP one also.

[Gilly]

ENTp's would give ENFp's a battle for the title of most introverted extroverts.

That depends on the context, I think. In a party atmosphere, ILEs are typically either distinctly loud or quiet (or even oscillate between the two), while IEEs usually fall in the middle. In small groups of familiar people, both can be, and generally are, very talkative. One-on-one, IEEs are much more talkative, even if the ILE is with a close friend (I find that I say very little to my friends when, for example, it's myself and one friend together in a car or a room for an extended period of time, unless there is a definite and immediate topic of mutual interest).