"Alpha Male" (Not Socionics Alpha) and Functional Type

[Steve]

I heard a friend use the word Alpha Male, and I looked it up to see what it was, and I'm still not exactly sure, but my main sense is that an "Alpha Male" is dominant, aggressive, someone who naturally people turn to and people do things for without even having to be asked, etc. Now some people define Alpha males also in terms of their success with women and dominating that arena. But I'm not sure. Anyway the more descriptions I read of an Alpha male, it seemed like socionics could possibly be tied in with it, and perhaps there are more Alpha males of one type than another. I don't know, just speculating.

Do you guys have a clear idea what an "Alpha Male" is?

What do you think?

[FDG]

istp the likeliest candidate

[Angel von Himmel]

I would pretty much ignore anything you read on the internet of what an Alpha Male supposedly is ... especially if you visit dating or pick-up websites. However, if you want to know what the initial origional definition of "Alpha Male" before the name was tainted over with a thick layer of mythological bullcrap, google "Abraham Maslow" ... he is the one who coined the term in his studies of chimp behavior.

Abraham Maslow for the most part concluded with his observations of monkey behavior that the primary indicator that a monkey was alpha was when it spent more time beating off other monkies than it did collecting food or trying to hump a female monkey, and the beta monkies would spend more time collecting food and humping the female monkies. The conclusion of all of this was that Beta monkies humped female monkies much more often than alpha monkies did and were more suscessful in finding food for themselves and other members, wher as the alpha monkey spent more time being a nuisance than an actual help to a primate group and were often unnecessarily agressive, perfering to steal collected food than actually collect food for themselves.

However, there is a difference here in dominance, being an alpha male not does necessarily mean you are the most dominant member of the group nor the most influential. In fact, it is indeed known by those who study chimp behavior that often one of the nicer beta male monkies is the actual respected and acknowledged leader of a group of monkies. Occasionally, however, an alpha male monkey will attempt to break up the organization of a ground and the leader monkey must fight him or her off. If unsuccesful at driving the alpha monkey off, it usually leads to the beta monkey leader passivelly accepting the presence of an alpha male who is not esspecially liked by the other chimps and is generally destructive and selfish. This is essentially the way the alpha beta male system works as maslow described it. Hence, it is possible within Maslow's studies for a dominant beta male to exist within a group setting.

In humans infact, it is a common misnomer for people unaware of what psychology actually teaches about this to try to stereotype dominance fully with alpha male qualities, which is in all essence entirely false. A man who takes charge by force is never ever the one who is the most dominant in a group of people, even if other people are forced to tolerate that person. The acknowledged most dominant person of a group of people is one who is most respected. A man can not ever force a person to do that, ever.

[Kristiina]

I think that ESTps are waaaaay before ISTps in the alpha male contest. By definition ISTps have a tendency to enjoy the moment (Si) and go with the flow (IP), but ESTps actively create better situations for themselves. ESTjs could also be alpha males, but I've never seen that happen. I imagine an ENFj man could also pull off the image of alpha male, but it would come less naturally.

From a woman's PoV (especially a beta woman :wink: ), an alpha male should be the person creating new ideas and behavior, not just following the rest of the group like most people (excludes introverts in most cases). He would also have to be able to "lead people" in times of crisis, so he'd have to be able to respond to new things. He has to have confidence (not type related) and charisma (barely type related). He's probably very aggressive, but holds himself back (lots of testosterone!!! but an alpha male can't be a loose cannon. I don't think testosterone aggression is type-related.) Oh, and he has to be sure of what he's doing and not change his mind with each new fact. (I just don't think Ti PoLR is good for an alpha male). ESTp fits the best.

[Angel von Himmel]

I should probably also note that there was a study done I read once by a professor on alpha and beta males, he would do tests with his students and his conclusion was that men knew 100% of the time who the dominant male was while women were hardly ever consistent. Also, women tended to choose more subjectivelly than men with their choices.

[Blaze]

estp is the alpha male without question.

[FDG]

From a woman's PoV (especially a beta woman :wink: ), an alpha male should be the person creating new ideas and behavior, not just following the rest of the group like most people (excludes introverts in most cases). He would also have to be able to "lead people" in times of crisis, so he'd have to be able to respond to new things. He has to have confidence (not type related) and charisma (barely type related). He's probably very aggressive, but holds himself back (lots of testosterone!!! but an alpha male can't be a loose cannon. I don't think testosterone aggression is type-related.) Oh, and he has to be sure of what he's doing and not change his mind with each new fact. (I just don't think Ti PoLR is good for an alpha male). ESTp fits the best.

Ah ok, I had a very very different definition in mind, I'd fit this straight to the point actually (don't know about charisma, I can't measure it), except that I don't feel like I am aggressive at all; however it's not what I think an alpha male is. For example, the ISTPS I know tend to get along better with people than me, because they don't hold fixed idealistic and completely self-referential ideas (Ti) that are either completely accepted or completely rejected.

[Steve]

Yeah rmcnew I do think that people have stereotyped and distorted the true Alpha male concept. I guess what sparked my interest on the subject is the idea of dominance in males, and how you can tell a dominant male. But especially, how a dominant person who's the same type as a dominant person would be different.

For example, I wonder how a dominant ENTp would be vs a non-dominant ENTp, also how would a dominant ENTp compare with a dominant ESTp.

And yeah perhaps the dominance = aggressiveness is a bit problematic. I mean I would not consider myself overly offensively aggressive (only in defense), and yet I do feel very respected and people look to me as more of a leader with things, particularly in the areas I'm strong in.

- Just threw some ideas out there, what do you guys think?

[Jimbean]

I don't honestly believe this is really type related. But as a generalization, I would have to say ESTp.

Types that I have seen as Alpha males are ESTp, ESTj, ESFp, and ENTj

I think it has to do with whether or not the person has ever been restrained or inhibited early in life. But that is just a guess.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[XoX]

Imho ESTp is not the Alpha male generally. Which is surprising. ESTp might look like the Alpha male to women though. So they might be "Alpha male in women's eyes". The problem is that in men's world testosterone doesn't work that well and can even alienate the male from other males and from the chain of leadership. And yes the wolf pack theory is more accurate than monkey theory (except in prison and such close to anarchistic environments perhaps).

I believe Alpha male (for males) is likely rational extrovert. Which of them depends on the context. In my most intimate friend group there is no clear hiearchy. It is like...females like the ESTp but ENTj is the actual alpha male. ESTj has his own authority too and is not a slave to the ENTj just less interested in "grabbing the power" and less "driven". I can see environments where ESFj and ENFj would compete for the title instead of the Te-types. EJ males with high level of competence and high confidence is my choice. ESTps probably have better chance at being Alpha males in anarchy conditions. Of course ISTj has potential to become an alpha male too where power and structure is needed.

[discojoe]

[FDG]

The problem is that in men's world testosterone doesn't work that well and can even alienate the male from other males and from the chain of leadership.

Sooo you still think ESTp are those people that go barking orders at every person they see?(just asking man, because you spread this superstitions like semen)

[Exodus]

The problem is that in men's world testosterone doesn't work that well and can even alienate the male from other males and from the chain of leadership.

Sooo you still think ESTp are those people that go barking orders at every person they see?

That sounds more xSTj to me.

[XoX]

The problem is that in men's world testosterone doesn't work that well and can even alienate the male from other males and from the chain of leadership.

Sooo you still think ESTp are those people that go barking orders at every person they see?(just asking man, because you spread this superstitions like semen)

No. They are the ones who make other guys jealous because they take all the girls and thus they must be removed from the "core pack" in order to not let them get too powerful. Ahah. It is better if they just take your woman instead of being above you in hierarchy AND take your woman.

[FDG]

Ahah! Makes sense, even if somewhat coward. It'd be better if all the people just tried to reach the level of the best. Anyway, by that definition, I definitely don't fit.

Edit: I guess different situations make different people to be "dominant". For example the ISTp always retreats when there is the possibility of a physical fight with dangerous consequences, or when there are people that have authority (especially criminal authority), whereas I tend to not give a shit and interact with them as they were normal bums.