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Thread: Fe Hidden Agenda

  1. #41
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fe hidden agenda=popularity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Well I think they do want to be popular in a way. I would rather say they like to be well-liked. But as it says in Gulenko's ESFp vs ESTp description, ESFps are generally more interested in being at the center of attention and ESTps prefer to remain "in the shadows".

    If you compare the following descriptions you get the idea that ESFps are more interested in being popular and noticed and attract attention in the common sense of the word:

    "ESFps usually wear original, brightly coloured, eye-catching clothes and accessories in order to attract attention to themselves. This is especially applicable to females. They are often influenced by the latest fashions, but will not wear something if they feel it will not suit them. "

    "ESTps rarely wear eye-catching clothes. They try to maintain a neutral style of clothes, steering away from fashion. Females prefer not to wear very bright or colourful clothing. Males have an inclination to official styles of clothing such as suits etc. ESTps generally prefer to remain in the shadows."
    that's bullshit
    Agreed, for sure.

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    I think an Fe hidden agenda is more along the lines of: "To be entertaining" Many E*Tp's I know, don't care about being personally liked. But they do care about having an effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler
    I think an Fe hidden agenda is more along the lines of: "To be entertaining" Many E*Tp's I know, don't care about being personally liked. But they do care about having an effect.
    i have considered that would be a way better way to put it as well.
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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Haikus thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler
    I think an Fe hidden agenda is more along the lines of: "To be entertaining" Many E*Tp's I know, don't care about being personally liked. But they do care about having an effect.
    ! I like it.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler
    I think an Fe hidden agenda is more along the lines of: "To be entertaining" Many E*Tp's I know, don't care about being personally liked. But they do care about having an effect.
    That's much closer than "to be liked/loved." I like everyone to think highly of me and think I possess good qualities as a person, but the only people whose likes or dislikes matter to me are my close friends. Basically, if someone likes me, he/she is, or can be, my friend (unless there are obvious reasons for me to not like them), but unless there's something that really attracts me to someone, I'm not going to go out of my way to make them like me. I like to be entertaining and to keep the people around me engaged and happy, but the goal is certainly not to make as many friends as I can. Having lots of friends requires lots of effort; I choose the people I like the most to be my friends, and the rest get filed under "acquaintances."

    What about "to be admired?" That would be the closest thing to my HA.

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    And on a similar vein, would you say that an Se Hidden Agenda could be: "To avoid being insecure" Like trying to be sure of yourself and confident. At least for an ENFj, I'm sure it's something similar to that.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler
    And on a similar vein, would you say that an Se Hidden Agenda could be: "To avoid being insecure" Like trying to be sure of yourself and confident. At least for an ENFj, I'm sure it's something similar to that.
    Mmm...I'd say "to be secure," but I think it's more about finances, social life, and well-being than personality.

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    "to be confident"

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    Too vague.

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    Default Fe Dual Seeking vs Hidden Agenda?

    How does Dual Seeking look when compared to HA?

    The person I'm thinking of:

    Has a strong desire to entertain (is entering that as a career), and is always making jokes/doing random things to amuse others. He himself is very straight faced, the whole time, seldom laughing.

    Strongly prefers people who are happy/express strong emotions, although he himself seems helpless to create or reinforce those expressions in others.
    ILE - Ti.

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    is that Fe HA?

    SLE: hello!
    me: oohh, hi!
    SLE: how are you?
    me: (thinking: god, i have no opinion on this and quickly have to invent a plausible answer): me? i am fine, i guess ... i had enough rest. i mean compared to others. so.. i am fine!
    SLE (curious): "me" ... is there someone who isn't? why? is there an issue?
    me: well, i guess many people must be stressed out. today is the last day... but i guess it's always like this at this time.
    SLE: hm, yeah ...

    i've never really talked to this guy before and he suddenly interrogates me about the emotional states of the other people around us... ^^ (of which i had actually no clue, the whole conversation caught me off guard)

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim View Post
    is that Fe HA?

    SLE: hello!
    me: oohh, hi!
    SLE: how are you?
    me: (thinking: god, i have no opinion on this and quickly have to invent a plausible answer): me? i am fine, i guess ... i had enough rest. i mean compared to others. so.. i am fine!
    SLE (curious): "me" ... is there someone who isn't? why? is there an issue?
    me: well, i guess many people must be stressed out. today is the last day... but i guess it's always like this at this time.
    SLE: hm, yeah ...

    i've never really talked to this guy before and he suddenly interrogates me about the emotional states of the other people around us... ^^ (of which i had actually no clue, the whole conversation caught me off guard)
    Maybe he just wanted a reason to talk to you? Were you alone when he did it? I am actually trying to remember the last time when an SLE asked me "how are you". I think it was ananke. <3

    If you think he was interrogating you about the emotional states of others it was probably Fi related. Um, did he like go on about it or was it casual or awkward?

    4. Introverted ethics

    SLEs have trouble evaluating the internal emotional state of others unless it is accompanied by a visible emotional expression. When unable to do so, they become uneasy. When an individual expresses negative emotions, SLEs feel that they are unable to offer the support needed; they get uncomfortable and confused, and as a result, will not respond appropriately to the situation or will react in a way which is unhelpful to the individual. SLEs themselves constantly seem emotionally guarded, and so very rarely will anyone actually have the chance to "comfort" the SLE in the everyday use of the word. The best way to do so is to let the emotion run its course.

    SLEs often tread carefully when it comes to interpersonal relationships because they recognize their inherent weakness in this function. They feel the need to not only be respected, but also to be held dear by others, precisely because they feel inept when it comes to relationships. Often their behavior will have the opposite effect of what they were hoping for; if they are trying to protect someone, that someone may view their "protection" as pure jealousy, and thus will attempt to break away. The SLE will respond with further limitations in order to counter what they believe is irrational rebelliousness, perhaps causing a breakdown of said relationship. Despite this, SLEs can without extra effort manage to maintain a superficial - purely physical or formal - relationship. Their IEI duals, however, have an understanding of SLEs; they know how to react with Fe in accordance with the SLE's mood, and thereby tactfully avoid incurring any misunderstanding.

    To ease their doubts about their relationships with others, SLEs are sincere when it comes to establishing new bonds with others; they feel it is important to inform others of their true nature so that they will not be taken by surprise when the SLE acts in a certain way. Likewise, the SLE will often prefer to take the initiative in establishing new friendships and relationships. This is partly due to the fact that SLEs fear psychological distance; taking a more upfront and aggressive approach would allow him to more accurately observe those around him, while removing the possibility of one's gradual avoidance of the SLE.

    SLEs are under the impression that they might gain respect or admiration from others, but can never be truly loved by anyone. Sometimes, SLEs can become paranoid about their relationships with others; they often mistrust declarations of affection, and so can appear insecure.
    6. Extroverted ethics

    SLEs find themselves unable to adequately raise an emotionally dull atmosphere, which is why they greatly appreciate another individual proficient in this function. SLEs naturally gravitate towards warm, cheerful atmospheres. If an SLE makes a social move that doesn't get the emotional response he expects, he will feel uneasy or offended e.g. if no one laughs at a joke he tells.

    In large groups or groups of new acquaintances, SLEs sometimes inadvertently estrange themselves from everyone else, which may give off a negative impression. The SLE may assume this contrary attitude in order to seek Fe while preserving the atmosphere of the group. If another individual shows acceptance of the SLE, he will immediately brighten and join the now warmer emotional mood. Alternatively, if the SLE fails to receive the desired emotional cues, he will further distance himself from the situation, highly averse to "being a drag" to the group dynamic.
    There seems to be an "emotional contradiction" with the SLE; there is a constant internal struggle to both reveal to others their true feelings and a desire to guard themselves from adverse people or situations. He finds it extremely difficult - almost unnatural - to express his deepest feelings about an experience he's had. SLEs try to avoid looking vulnerable, weak or dependent, which is why they appear to be such closely guarded individuals. SLEs will, like any other logical type, attempt to keep their feelings under control and subordinate to their reasoning. They refuse to let their emotions complicate professional relationships, and make a conscious effort to maintain the same emotionality with all.

    SLEs are unable to suppress the manifestations of their moods, and thus greatly appreciate individuals who can deal with their sudden, uncontrollable outbursts of emotions. For many SLEs, expressive activities such as acting, musical performance or even religion serve as ideal "ethical vents", helping to give them the emotional release they struggle to find in other areas of society.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Maybe he just wanted a reason to talk to you? Were you alone when he did it? I am actually trying to remember the last time when an SLE asked me "how are you". I think it was ananke. <3

    If you think he was interrogating you about the emotional states of others it was probably Fi related. Um, did he like go on about it or was it casual or awkward?
    yes, he just wanted a reason to talk and it was just a casual conversation. but he became suddenly curious about my response/reasoning (i used a lot of Fe/varied intonation to give emphasis to certain points during the conversation and he picked up on that) the same way i become curious when Ti types say something in a matter of fact tone, and i'm like, oh... why? explain! i was wondering whether that is related to Fe HA.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler View Post
    I think an Fe hidden agenda is more along the lines of: "To be entertaining" Many E*Tp's I know, don't care about being personally liked. But they do care about having an effect.
    I disagree. Yes, ILEs do try to be entertaining but I would consider this means to an end, which is feedback expressed through emotions (that's why it is Fe HA, after all).
    From what I've seen so far, Alfa NTs in general thrive on frequent and direct displays of affection when in romantic relationships. But unlike with LII, emotional resound directed at them may actually be what subconsciously drives ILEs actions.
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim View Post
    is that Fe HA?

    SLE: hello!
    me: oohh, hi!
    SLE: how are you?
    me: (thinking: god, i have no opinion on this and quickly have to invent a plausible answer): me? i am fine, i guess ... i had enough rest. i mean compared to others. so.. i am fine!
    SLE (curious): "me" ... is there someone who isn't? why? is there an issue?
    me: well, i guess many people must be stressed out. today is the last day... but i guess it's always like this at this time.
    SLE: hm, yeah ...

    i've never really talked to this guy before and he suddenly interrogates me about the emotional states of the other people around us... ^^ (of which i had actually no clue, the whole conversation caught me off guard)
    Don't see Fe HA. People ask how you are as a courteous gesture and small talk
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    It seems to me that "to be well liked" or "to be popular" would be a more accurate description than "to be loved".
    The hidden agenda is related to the creative function, what Fe HA types want is emotional validation of their logic (Ti). Otherwise their logic changes.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by diljs View Post
    How does Dual Seeking look when compared to HA?

    Fe dual-seeking types expect emotional validation for their logic. Unlike Fe HAs, they're identified with their logic (Ti) and so cannot easily change it if it isn't emotionally validated. What happens instead is their attitude (Fi) towards the other changes to reinforce their existing logic.

  20. #60
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    The hidden agenda is related to the creative function, what Fe HA types want is emotional validation of their logic (Ti). Otherwise their logic changes.
    What about if they get emotional disagreement with their logic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    People ask how you are as a courteous gesture and small talk
    yes, that i know!... i was wondering about the progress of the conversation. not the initial question/reason for the conversation which was indeed just simple small talk.

  22. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What about if they get emotional disagreement with their logic?

    Emotional disagreement will drain their libido, prompting a defense through Fi POLR. But technically it's about getting a rise out of people, changing their emotional potential energy into kinetic. They want a reaction. So what Fe HAs will avoid is situations of emotional ambiguity and equanimity, not necessarily disagreement.

    Also, because they have creative Ti, Fe HAs will also have a much more flexible Fi defense, compared to Fe dual-seekers. The attitude/moral values of an Fe dual-seeker can reach the rigidity of an Fi base.
    Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 03-11-2016 at 02:31 AM.

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