01-10-2014, 04:37 PM
01-11-2014, 07:53 AM
not gonna be around as much anymore
Chiming in! I might have posted in this thread before, but it was so long ago, and I don't feel like searching for it...
I am IEE and married to my Mirage ILI. We are going on 9 years this Spring.
We are both Intuitives! Lots of drifting into our fantasy worlds-- either together or separately (but we like to share with each other). His fantasies are more...fantastical, whereas mine are more based in reality. But we are definitely both big dreamers, and that gets us really excited...until we remember that we're forced to be grounded, financially burdened, responsible adults ;P
We both love to learn, about anything and everything. And we also enjoy sharing our findings on various subjects with each other. This is also a passion which we have strived to pass on to our kids.
Neither of us are Sensors. But we both need more Si/Se in our lives than we manage to get. I am chronically understimulated and don't get any help from him, and he needs someone to spur him into action and I get tired of being the one who has to do it. Our minds are both so scattered that we neglect the house until it becomes unbearable, then we get stressed about it but neither of us wants to be the one to have to clean it all up (but I am usually the one who ends up doing it because I have to live in it more than he does). We especially struggle with paper clutter and consistent organization.
Sex is sometimes a challenge, though I'm not sure whether to blame that on our personalities or on the kids (probably the kids, haha). But as far as romance in general goes, neither of us really gets what we most want psychologically, but we've learned to adjust and make it work because we are committed to each other. And we are learning to respect and value each other more as romantic partners as time goes by and we are able to adjust our expectations while also working out ways to still get what we each desire the most.
Effective communication is difficult at times. Or we forget/lack time to communicate at all, making assumptions instead and this has led us into messes at times (we're working on doing better at this, but it's become more and more of a challenge as we've grown from a family of two to a family of five). We occasionally disagree about the best methods to raise our kids. But in the end, we share common goals and ideals, so that helps us to want to work through our differences and come up with mutually-acceptable solutions, when we can make the time to finally sit down and talk it through.
In other words, we make great friends, passable romantic partners, and struggling parents (yes it is stressful and I won't deny it). But we love each other, and we love our kids, and we love God, and we care enough to make it work. But it certainly doesn't all come naturally. There is a lot of forgiveness and mutual toleration involved. Realizing and recognizing our differences is actually most effective in helping us to overcome them-- it's when we try to deny that they exist that we get ourselves into trouble. So we are really trying to be more "open book" with each other, but it's especially hard for him, being an Introvert.
01-11-2014, 08:13 AM
not gonna be around as much anymore
As far as Mirage versus Semi-Dual and which is better...I am of the opinion that in a committed relationship it is more important for there to be shared F/L values than shared N/S values; so whether Mirage or Semi-Dual is preferable/more workable over the long haul depends on where your values lie...
01-11-2014, 01:18 PM
This is my opinion as well. The long-lasting semi-dual relations that I have observed consists entirely of rational types. A good example is ESI-LSE. Both value ethical integrity and financial security, seemingly bringing what the other person is seeking to the relationship while simultaneously remaining pragmatic in their respective area.
Originally Posted by pianosinger
As far as IEI-ILE mirage goes, both seems to take their own ideals very seriously while remaining speculative and seeks to seize opportunities and/or possibilities. Both wants to be involved in life and to have a pleasant/exciting atmosphere with others. ILE is better at organizing and creating activities while IEI is better at anticipating reactions and outcomes.
05-14-2019, 05:09 PM
1. I wonder, how much if at all Mirage romantic relationship can improve, when involved people are feeding their DS functions otherwise. I mean, I guess that Mirage is anyway very unpleasant whenever conflicts arises (I have such thought that Mirage is better when things are worry-free but semi-duality is ulitimately a better friendship, because in crisis we tend to focus on our bases). But... let's say, if I change my job to something Fe-full and surround myself with Fe-using friends (actually: done), would my hipotetical LIE romance be better or worse? I'd be less Fe-craving or opposite: more aware of Fe lacks in him? Assuming I didn't know about socioncis. No, no hunt for LIE, just thinking.
2. Another dillema: it was already said by a few that Mirage may be harder for rationals, because F/T sync seems to be more important (I think that when a male is Se-Ni and female Si-Ne type that difference may be quite natural actually, being Se-Ni woman isn't most comfortable in my opinion as long as relationships are considered, by the way). And what about ethical/logical thing? Like f.e., ESI-EIE seems to be far more popular and working out than LSI-LIE, is my impression correct? On the other hand there is that negativism/positivism thing I still sort of overlook: so hipotetically positivists should have it easier to accomodate in non-dual relationships (I thing there was such a statement somewhere...) but is it even true and does it relate to Mirage?
05-14-2019, 05:46 PM
I have had two LSI GF’s, with the second one being on-off-On-off for two or three years. I don’t think the relationships improve with age.
Dealing with my duals while in a Mirage relationship just made the Mirage relationship worse. It made it all the more obvious what was missing.
05-14-2019, 06:05 PM
Thank you. If it is not too private could you expand a bit on:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
1. What do you mean that relationships do not improve with age? Age of partners or an age of relationship? Could you compare taking into account age of partners?
2. Who ended your relationships and do you know, if your ex LSI GF's were aware of their unfullfiled Fe search? They were women, right, I wonder if is it natural for all LSI women to know they want Fe in man, or they may live in dark more likely than you looking for Fi, because of gender role expectations...? I also start to think about another criterium of evaluation: quadra values. In Beta-Gamma pair, which part fights more for relation: "collaborate" or "endure"?
3. As we can see I profit from Te user - you provide me Te facts for my Ti theory right now. I wonder, is it, generally, two ways? I mean, do you think LSI's Ti help your Te somehow?
Really sorry to be like this. Investigating stupid details and nuances ._.
05-14-2019, 08:26 PM
I second this. It will also make it apparent how much more effort it'll take to achieve even a fraction of the comfort that comes naturally with the dual. Just a month ago I was asking the same question, trying to figure out if me and my mirage could just get our DS elsewhere if we could work out. I've since met a dual friend and dropped all the mirages almost instantly.
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
09-23-2019, 08:25 AM
These relationships seem to do well when there are shared goals or interests between partners. When there isn't common ground (and there's more of a chance of this), partners are usually polite but disinterested in one another unless there's a sexual attraction. Also, the potential for misunderstanding of each other's intent or meaning can be rather high; a successful start to the relationship seems to depend a lot on the communication skills and will of the extroverted partner........
10-07-2019, 04:07 PM
The most common positive relation for me, also the relation that I've had the most romantic tendencies with. Easy to start, good surface chemistry, conversation flows easily. Starts strong, slowly worsens as the relationship becomes more intimate and we discover core differences in outlook that cause friction. Doesn't have the "edge" that duality does, we rarely challenge one another's comfort zones. This is assuming that I have typed them and myself correctly.
Last edited by Attis; 10-07-2019 at 09:50 PM.
10-08-2019, 12:47 PM
These are better for friendships in the case of the gender I'm attracted to, and one night stands or distant friendships in the case of the gender I'm not. I had a longer term relationship with my mirage... it didn't really work out. I always felt like something was missing though that I couldn't really put my finger on. Like an unticked box that I couldn't find and that was invisible to me until I met a certain dual.
I think aside from dual, probably identical, then business, then kindred, then semi-dual, then benefit (with LIEs for me), then mirage and mirror .. have been the best, on average, in that order. Then maybe activity or something. I also usually like LIIs, except for the bitchy or bitter ones.
10-08-2019, 04:47 PM
I like SLE women a lot and find their insights really interesting, but it does always feel like we're approaching intellectual topics from really different angles.* It's great for expanding my worldview but less satisfying for delving deeper - we just jump around a lot.
I dunno about romance. From my low sample size, the sex is a lot worse compared to dual or semi-dual.
* Sometimes Aristocracy vs Democracy makes you think the "meaning" is in entirely different aspects of a topic.
10-15-2019, 07:20 PM
Generally, I find myself getting along much better with ESE-Sis than with Fe subs.
I also noticed ESE-Sis tend to be bulkier and have a more squared face (think Vanilla Ice) in comparison to their ethical counterparts, whose faces are more like an oval.
Last edited by Marep; 10-15-2019 at 07:38 PM.
10-15-2019, 09:09 PM
a two horned unicorn renegade
11-18-2019, 02:32 AM
Oooh, does Adam Strange ever reply to these things? He very frequently offers his perspectives about the relationships he's had but I think I've rarely seen him reply.
11-18-2019, 03:00 AM
@inabox, I try to reply to questions directed at me, but I often miss some posts.
Originally Posted by inabox
In this case, what should I reply to?
With respect to Mirage, @Muddy already said the most insightful things about it that I have ever heard, in post #14, here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...84#post1133784
I find it interesting that Mirage and Semi-Dual partners both have half of the Dual's valued functions, and half of the Extinguishment partner's valued functions, but in half the cases, the Erotic attitudes align for the Mirage couples, and for the other half, they align for the Semi-Duals.
In my case, the Erotic attitudes aligned with my Mirage partners, which skewed my experience of Mirage compared to that of some other people.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-18-2019 at 03:18 AM.
11-18-2019, 03:48 AM
Very long ago, I'd asked about your perspective on SEE ladies . I was curious because you had mentioned having relationships with LSIs and one ISFj (who was not subtype wise very compatible I think). So I think my question in response to one of those posts was - what did you think of SEEs, who are they different from your experience with people of complimentary temperaments (Ij s ). But I think it's off topic for this post.
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Something somewhat on topic though, I occasionally see ISFj and INFj ladies picking their mirage partners - it is interesting to see Fi bases pick and emphasize on complimentary romance styles.
11-21-2019, 06:36 AM
I met an ESE girl at q starbux and had a great time talking to her even though we were both strangers. Some things I noticed was
- me being witty via Ne impressed the pants off her
- Even though we were strangers she suspected that I wanted to leave the starbux at somepoint (because I kept looking out the window for my ride) and she proceeded to yell "DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE?!" in an impulsive way, letting her Fe in the moment get out of control, like I was someone she knew, the way I saw this was completely inappropriate and rude to yell at a stranger like that, even if in a flattering way it meant she enjoyed my company.
other than that she was very easy and fun to talk to.
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