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Thread: IEI - SLE Duality discussion and stories (INFp-ESTp)

  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastermind
    I really want the friendship thing because he did bring out the best in me and moved things in me i didn't know existed. And we had so much fun
    But will it really feel the same, given the context? Sure, there's general personality compatibility; but I'd be willing to bet a large part of what enabled the full expression of that dynamic had to do with the fact that you two were 'together.' You can't undo the creases you embed into yourself with something like a break-up: it will never be the same. I was very close with an Se-ESTp girl towards the beginning of high school. But once that faded a little, and she decided to hook up with losers, well, I couldn't ever relate to her the same. The light still shone dimly in the distance, a remnant of the unique piquancy that sustained us for so long; but what's done is done.

    And you seem like you just want it both ways anyway.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    I agree with strrrng. My gut feeling is that this is a bad idea. I'd let him go, and move on - for both your sake and his.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Thank you all from the insight. (Especially you Mimosa *HUGS*)

    I feel it can be done if we both really want it to work. I know I do.

    Will call him sometime next week and see how it goes.

    <fingers crossed>
    EST

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastermind View Post
    I feel it can be done if we both really want it to work.
    that's exactly right. good luck.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I agree the relationship will probably be different, but it could still be good. There are not too many people out there that we can truly connect with, and the people we get that special connection with, can very well be super friends after a relationship has ended. I've experienced it myself. And I've seen it many times.
    Forreal. Yet, sometimes that pure dynamic gets sullied by the irrevocable effects that a separation can have. But maybe they'll get over it and be pulled back together, so your case is valid.

    Often it's people who stay friends for the sake of their kids (not in my case), but if parents can, why not people without kids (like I did)?
    Heh, if you're staying around each other for the sake of some false mitigation of the kids' perception of your relationship, you are wrong (had to throw in some navy speak lol). Seriously though, relationships aren't sustained by circumstances; the only thing that happens there, is a gradual dilapidation of the connections of ALL people involved, until the parents forgot why they did what they did in the first place, the kids are left estranged, and no one gains anything. It's called divorce. ugh.

    Really, imo, throwing away something that is very good just because it could cause trouble, is like not living cause you might die.
    I don't think the issue of hesitation because of fear is important here. They know how special it is; and thus, the consideration is more whether the quality of it can be revived and sustained, in the newly-found context of -break up-

    Save the good things, work with them.
    Like my worn-out boxing gloves

    But only if you are willing to invest.
    Which I'm not, so their ineffable substance cannot be fully appreciated. All I see are tears (as in, rips) and dirt stains. Metaphor hint hint.

    It IS hard work. You have to know WHY you want it, and you have to be certain there is no jealousy/hidden agendas involved.
    I hit the bag for enjoyment; unfortunately, there is no possibility of mutual satisfaction with no implications involved here, so they either commit or not. But uh-oh, they're already broken up. The tides have crashed, and the ripples generated a new current. Go ahead and try to swim against it. I'll be hitting the bag aimlessly

    I think everyone has to judge themselves if it's the right thing or not. Even though it's right for me, and wrong for Akra and possibly for you, doesn't mean it's the same for others. Just don't throw away good things for the wrong reasons.
    Above.

    You know, it's really not fair to compare your fascination with an SLE girl in high-school with living together for 4 years.
    Try a powerful infatuation that existed in a frenzied state for several years. I wasn't mature enough to understand what true fascination meant -- because it pertains to beauty, and beauty can only be known through maturity and self-degradation. blah blah.

    After those 4 years, it's like losing both a family member and a lover. Why throw away the family member just because you lose your lover? Not for everybody, I guess, but it has worked for me. (Other than that, I basically agree with what you are saying, and I see a lot of people messing up things because of such relations. But not everybody.)
    Sometimes the two are intertwined, and trying to regain one without the other results in even more pain, albeit more gradual and unnoticed, than simply letting the end exist. But who knows.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    But will it really feel the same, given the context? Sure, there's general personality compatibility; but I'd be willing to bet a large part of what enabled the full expression of that dynamic had to do with the fact that you two were 'together.' You can't undo the creases you embed into yourself with something like a break-up: it will never be the same. I was very close with an Se-ESTp girl towards the beginning of high school. But once that faded a little, and she decided to hook up with losers, well, I couldn't ever relate to her the same. The light still shone dimly in the distance, a remnant of the unique piquancy that sustained us for so long; but what's done is done.

    And you seem like you just want it both ways anyway.
    Maybe this is type related...

    I once held your opinion--UNTIL I got back together with an ex and it was better than even the first time.

    All I'm saying is... Don't close your mind to it.

    And to the OP... Don't let these battle-hardened bitter fucks bring you down. It can be even better the 2nd time. I know

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    And to the OP... Don't let these battle-hardened bitter fucks bring you down. It can be even better the 2nd time. I know
    Are you still with this person now JuJu?
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Maybe this is type related...

    I once held your opinion--UNTIL I got back together with an ex and it was better than even the first time.

    All I'm saying is... Don't close your mind to it.

    And to the OP... Don't let these battle-hardened bitter fucks bring you down. It can be even better the 2nd time. I know
    I think it's probably more dependent on the circumstances surrounding the breakup than type. The way Rastermind described it sounded kind of cold to me. Of course, I wasnt there and don't know these people. I think there are times when getting back together or becoming friends would be feasible, and others, not so much. I hate this phrase but: YMMV.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastermind View Post
    I had this duality relationship with and IEI for 4 years. But in the end, it didn't really work out. I felt so bored and frustrated and imprisoned. And I also got really tired because I finishing my bachelor's degree, working almost fullt time, paying the rent alone and supporting him because he coun't keep/find a job nor finish his education (highscool dropuot).

    .
    My female SLE friend lived with a guy (ENFP) for 4 years then split up and they are still friends (she was sick of supporting him and his moaning). They get along brilliantly now (although he now complains she talks too much!). After the split he went travelling with his new girlfriend for a year and they kept in touch over email (there was a need to keep in touch as they had bought the flat together and had to sort out the legal side of things). Anyway generally the first few months of a new relationship are very intense in my opinion. The pros of getting in touch just now is the new girlfriend can adjust to you being there at the outset however on the downside she may get really jealous. I would suggest sending an email rather than calling as it will give the IEI time to think things over then hopefully if he is open to friendship continuing with email for a while until a bit of time has passed.

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    .

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    ^^ Reality check. It's pretty much that you won't capture the evanescent hope that's streamlining in front of your eyes; -- the winds have already permeated your minds, out, out! -- keep picking at the scar, it isn't healed.

    Consider: why are you questioning this on an internet type forum? Peoples' decontextualized responses aren't assurance; they're the result of your self-fulfilling band-aid prophecy.

    My old golden retriever was awesome, just lit up my heart. But she had a cancer, something similar to whatever gradual problem seemed to be detracting from your relationship. We put her down, disseminated her ashes over Lake Tahoe -- beautiful.

    Just let the purity remain intact before you vitiate whatever -was- there, to begin with.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    I agree it's a bad idea. If you have to ask strangers if it's a good idea or not, then it's a bad idea. If you have a good feeling about it, then you would just go ahead and do it, without asking anybody for permission.

    That is the flipside when somebody asks for advice, because we all innately do not like being told what to do.

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    Ni would generally dictate that when something is over it's over. Also in general when I hear that a person is hanging out with their ex I feel a negative kind of pity for both parties because they're being tools. Thus I would advise against any sort of relapse in this case.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    Ni would generally dictate that when something is over it's over.
    I agree with this statement BUT this happens if the Ni does the "is over" part.

    I don't believe in what we call in my country "reheated soup" however, I do believe in people evolving and in break-ups caused by insufficient spiritual development.
    Sometimes you meet some old friend and he/she is better. I wouldn't bet on this tho, it can happen but is extremely unlikely to happen.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    But who said it was over? I mean, they had a great friendship AND lived together. The thing that was over in this case, was the living together. Can't the friendship still live? It's worth a try, at least. Friends don't come easily. However, I agree with a lot of others here saying it probably won't be the same. But change isn't always bad. It helps developping you. Maybe it's a cultural thing, this thought that people you had a relationship with can't be friends...? It's rather normal here. Really, if you are not vindictive/jealous/immature about it, it works very well. (I guess what I say, is that if both have moved on, mentally, it works).



    Both being tools? What do you mean?

    And pity?
    Maybe these are just my observations. However, I've noticed that very few people are OK with their gf/bf/etc. "hanging out" with their ex (I wouldn't be, and often when a person says they're OK with it they're just being passive-aggressive). There may very well be a window of opportunity to get back together immediately following the relationship, when both parties are single. However, that is not the case in this situation. In other words the window is closed.

    Also one of my pet peeves is people that are always breaking up and then getting back together with the same person. Reminds me of a soap opera and if soap operas need to exist they should stay on the TV.
    INFp-Ni

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    Default About IEI SLE duality

    Are there exceptions to this working?? Im an IEI male and I was with an SLE female a while ago but it didn't work out. However during the relationship distance became a factor so...just wondering...
    IEI

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    Exceptions to compatibility, sure; many factors affect that. Maybe you could be a bit more specific, to aid assessment of your case.

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    language difference, she just isn't your type erotically. For example if you're really turned on by skinny blondes and your dual happens to be a chubby brunette, it's just naive to think that won't be a barrier.

    Culture and political differences. Duals can have different political leanings. Different points of interests and not finding enough things to talk about.... 'opposites attract' to a certain extent. But you might just grew up in too different of places to really connect on anything even if the psychological energy is great.

    And also IMO duals thrive the best when you're in a competitive environment, when a lot of people are against you and shit, and so they can save you/blanket you from shit. If you already are safe, comfortable- it's too easy to overlook ur dual. I look at is as playing a mmorpg. Having pure-specced tanks and healers for most encounters is overkill and even counter-productive. But when you're fighting a hard raid boss, it's essential. You and your dual are very pure-spec classes (iei=healer, sle=tank) and such naturally show how much of a team you are when a physical challenge is present. That also creates the feeling that the relationship is worth it and has somewhere to go, in physical space.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sueno View Post
    Are there exceptions to this working?? Im an IEI male and I was with an SLE female a while ago but it didn't work out. However during the relationship distance became a factor so...just wondering...
    EVERYTHING IN LIFE ALWAYS WORK OUT 100% THE FIRST TIME AROUND.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sueno View Post
    Are there exceptions to this working?? Im an IEI male and I was with an SLE female a while ago but it didn't work out. However during the relationship distance became a factor so...just wondering...
    Of course there are exceptions! There are a lot of other factors beside socionics type.
    Sexual attraction, intellectual attraction, education.

    Also, distance is a major issue if it happens in an immature relationship (at the beginning).
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    language difference, she just isn't your type erotically. For example if you're really turned on by skinny blondes and your dual happens to be a chubby brunette, it's just naive to think that won't be a barrier.

    Culture and political differences. Duals can have different political leanings. Different points of interests and not finding enough things to talk about.... 'opposites attract' to a certain extent. But you might just grew up in too different of places to really connect on anything even if the psychological energy is great.

    And also IMO duals thrive the best when you're in a competitive environment, when a lot of people are against you and shit, and so they can save you/blanket you from shit. If you already are safe, comfortable- it's too easy to overlook ur dual. I look at is as playing a mmorpg. Having pure-specced tanks and healers for most encounters is overkill and even counter-productive. But when you're fighting a hard raid boss, it's essential. You and your dual are very pure-spec classes (iei=healer, sle=tank) and such naturally show how much of a team you are when a physical challenge is present. That also creates the feeling that the relationship is worth it and has somewhere to go, in physical space.
    This makes alot of sense...

    I mean it lasted 3 months the last month becoming long distance because of school. It was the most fun I had in a relationship even though she was extremely blunt and very cold. Its just the way she ended it, basically like she didn't care. Which in the end made me feel like she let me go because I was no longer convenient to have around despite all the fun we had in the past.
    IEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sueno View Post
    Its just the way she ended it, basically like she didn't care.
    You are an IEI... so, be an IEI! Answer to yourself: is this true? she didn't care? You should know that SLE can put this kind of image as a form of protection, you should be able to see past that image!
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    I mean she even said she cared and said that hopefully we could work somethin out in the future, but her actions aren't congruent with what she said which is what was so confusing for me. But I suppose you're right sigma. I definitely picked up on quite a bit of resistance from her. But resistance from what?? hmm (evil smirk).
    IEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sueno View Post
    I mean she even said she cared and said that hopefully we could work somethin out in the future, but her actions aren't congruent with what she said which is what was so confusing for me. But I suppose you're right sigma. I definitely picked up on quite a bit of resistance from her. But resistance from what?? hmm (evil smirk).
    Life is never easy, you always have to make choices and sometime, both alternatives are bad. Conflicting dreams... etc...
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Uhm... When I hang out with my duals - LSIs I feel like I'm giving them ideas and they just feel like it's achievable and so we're doing it together .

    This is how beta ST completes beta NF.

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    I'm still waiting for my IEI dual. . . . I'll tell you what though, they need to hurry the fuck up 'cause I'm not gonna wait around forever!
    I just feel like I've done something to make you think that I care about you, like what you do or say. . . For that I am sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuze View Post
    I'm still waiting for my IEI dual. . . . I'll tell you what though, they need to hurry the fuck up 'cause I'm not gonna wait around forever!
    GET OUT THERE. They're waiting for you matey!

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    Ni "people who tend hesitate and wait for the right moment"

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    They are dead zombies and get stuck and hesitate all the time without Se.

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    so that quiet chick whos not really doing shit and just kinda flittling about...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    Ni "people who tend hesitate and wait for the right moment"
    yes...
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Here is some more info on dualisation: if you're an SLE male "waiting" for something to happen, you're either (1) being lazy, (2) not an SLE or (3) completely retarded about what you're capable of and what you should be doing if you want to get the girls/guys you want to get.

    If you're an SLE female, know that some IEI guys will attempt to fulfil the social roll of chaser rather than chased. I don't really see any contradiction with being an aggressor and the chased - aggressor status is had in a relationship, status of chased is had during the hunt. Also be wary that some guys are turned off by girls who chase. But that could just be me. However, THIS DOES NOT MEAN shut up and don't be interesting - that is not being chased, that's acting like a bland fuck, and you will not ever have any interesting people to end up with ever, and thus you will lead an unhappy life filled with single-fuck, disposable men.

    If you're an IEI female: take the italics as advice. Other than that, sit back and pick your man as you please.

    If you're an IEI male, some female SLEs may - like males who encounter bold and aggressive chaser females - actually be turned off by your forwardness if you're trying to play the social role of the male chaser. It's all about knowing your goal (the one you want to end up with). And aren't you lot pretty good at that?

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    It just struck me that that has absolutely nothing to do with either the original post, or with dualisation.

    Duality should be so obvious if you're a part of it that you won't be asking questions about whether it's duality or not. After three or four months and you'll know for sure. Sometimes you can know before then - depending on how much you see and interact with them. If you saw and interacted with them every day for example, then obviously it would be much less time.

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    I think with any dual pair, if one or especially both of them hasn't been "dualized", then there's an adjustment period where one or both people are acting the way they usually do instead of out of their ego block. If they spend enough time around each other, the times when they do act out of their ego block are rewarded and they learn to do it more. (And your reward for offering input from your ego block? More of your super id!) This adjustment period can actually be a little bit awkward, but not uncomfortable. They're learning how to be themselves, essentially. Learning how to act out of their ego block.

    Duals also need to learn that they can trust their dual to cover for their weaknesses, that they don't need to worry so much about their super ego block.

    It's super awesome to be around someone who really needs and really values your input, and vice versa.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    My IEI brother and SLE sister-in-law met in high school. Brother was 16. They're now in their mid-30s and still happy as clams together!

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    My IEI brother and SLE sister-in-law met in high school. Brother was 16. They're now in their mid-30s and still happy as clams together!
    Omg...highschool sweethearts. Lucky ^ ^, wish them a happy life. Oo do they have kids? and when did they make them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz View Post
    Omg...highschool sweethearts. Lucky ^ ^, wish them a happy life. Oo do they have kids? and when did they make them?
    no kids! two cats and a dog. they run a business and that takes all their time and energy. But they love it. It was a conscious decision on their part.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    My IEI brother and SLE sister-in-law met in high school. Brother was 16. They're now in their mid-30s and still happy as clams together!
    Yeah, I met an SLE/IEI couple on New Year's Eve that had been together since high school and for maybe the first time in my life I saw a relationship that made complete sense to me. It was a strangely eye-opening experience.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Default IEI here, should I hold out hope for this SLE dual?

    I met a dual a few months ago. We were both physically attracted to each other at first. We hung out a few times and I felt really drawn towards her and missed her even though we didn't know each other that well. She later asked if it was okay if we were just friends, and she seemed to lose romantic interest. However, she seems really interested in being friends and contacts me to get together or just say hello, or get dinner or something. If we go through long periods without talking, she will eventually reach out to me.

    Should I hold out hope that our duality will magically make her romantically interested again if we remain friends, or should I just move on?

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    I don't really hold onto anybody anymore because people always disappoint you in many ways. I loved this one person, but he totally ruined his life and got sent to prison. Only love somebody if they love you just as much, ya know? I sent him letters (but I don't know if he got them), waited 5+ years for this man, it was pretty stupid -- but at the time I didn't think of it that way, because I was in love, so I was being really hopeful, naive and ideal. I loved him so much but it just wasn't enough to make him into a person worthy to be in a healthy relationship.

    Love is overrated, because people do their own thing all the time regardless of how much they love somebody. Addiction is stronger than love. Selfishness is stronger than love. I just wish it wasn't true, but it is. My love for people couldn't stop them from doing all sorts of things that were self-destructive, and their love couldn't stop me from my bad habits.

    I think instead of love you guys have to be friends first. I think love can only blossom as the real thing unless there's a friendship going on. I'm more thankful for my friends then I am for my lovers anyway. If you want love to be the real thing and last, make sure that person is your friend more than anything else. I'm also wary of love that happens 'right away.' It sounds like it was just really good lust that you might have convinced yourself as love. There aint nothin wrong with fuck buddies but don't call it love just to make yourself feel better or something.

    And also love sucks because you really love this one person more than yourself and your own happiness and expense of all other reality, and it makes you see things not very clearly. also love is equality. a heart has two equal things.... formed together to make one heart. So it's a mental illness/insanity to love somebody who doesn't love you back.
    Last edited by BandD; 02-17-2011 at 11:04 PM.

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