dual seeking hit?

[Joy]

If you're depending on someone to provide your dual seeking function and then that person lets you down and you have to fend for yourself, to me that seems like more of a "hit" than a Role or PoLR hit could ever be. Role and PoLR seem so superficial in comparison. We don't really talk about dual seeking "hits" much though.

[Joy]

Actually, I just remembered that Expat talked about how this applies to each type in a recent post:

What types really expect from others, that makes them really frustrated, and bitch and moan:


LII, LSI: "why aren't you more cheerful, helping make me laugh? Why are you so gloom?"
ILE, IEE: "why aren't you taking care of those practical, daily details for me?"
ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
SEI, SLI: "why aren't you making this more interesting and fun?"
SLE, SEE: "why aren't you warning me when I am about to make a mistake or go too far?"
IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"
ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"

[UDP]

I am slowly discovering dual seeking to truly be the weakest function... or at least the one that requires a whole different sort of focus to conquer.

polr is the superficial, 'visible' aspect
dual seeking -- that's the inner consequence it seems.

[Joy]

I do agree that our dual seeking function is, in a way, our "weakest" function because it's our neediest function. I've been thinking about it from that very perspective, and I can see how the role and dual seeking functions interact. When we want/need our dual seeking function to be fulfilled, sometimes we act out with our role. Hmmm....

The only difference between the 3rd and the 4th is accepting vs. producing. Same goes for the 5th and 6th.

So...

3rd is weak and producing, and 5th is weak and accepting (and the other end of the axis to our 1st function), so when we need our 5th we act out with our 3rd (and make an idiot of ourselves)


4th is weak and accepting, and 6th is weak and producing (and the other end of the axis to our 2nd function), so when we are lacking in or have problems with our 4th we act out with our 6th (and make an idiot of ourselves)


<3 duality!!!

[Joy]

3rd is weak and producing, and 5th is weak and accepting (and the other end of the axis to our 1st function), so when we need our 5th we act out with our 3rd (and make an idiot of ourselves)


4th is weak and accepting, and 6th is weak and producing (and the other end of the axis to our 2nd function), so when we are lacking in or have problems with our 4th we act out with our 6th (and make an idiot of ourselves)

Are people following what I'm saying here?

[Exodus]

3rd is weak and producing, and 5th is weak and accepting (and the other end of the axis to our 1st function), so when we need our 5th we act out with our 3rd (and make an idiot of ourselves)


4th is weak and accepting, and 6th is weak and producing (and the other end of the axis to our 2nd function), so when we are lacking in or have problems with our 4th we act out with our 6th (and make an idiot of ourselves)

Are people following what I'm saying here?

I think this is related to the HA material on this site. (Location?)

btw, 3 & 5 are accepting; 4 and 6 are producing.

[Joy]

[Slava]

LII, LSI: "why aren't you more cheerful, helping make me laugh? Why are you so gloom?"
Why are you so gloom?

ILE, IEE: "why aren't you taking care of those practical, daily details for me?"
Cause you don't do shit for me, im not your bitch, if i did things for you, you'd look at me as your bitch

ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
I do give you strait answers.

SEI, SLI: "why aren't you making this more interesting and fun?"
Wasn't the sex interesting and fun?

SLE, SEE: "why aren't you warning me when I am about to make a mistake or go too far?"
Because you think your invinvible and it costs me energy to get you to not be a dumbass, plus you wont even thank me. You do stupid shit just to look cool, and attempt to do the impossible, which goes against my advice to you, pay the price.

IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
I can try but I'll have to pretend I'm more Se than I'd like to be, and I might get in some trouble behind the scenes for that, its not good for my health

LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"
Cause you'll fire my ass, and I dont like talking about how I feel, ok?, plus relationships need distance and restraint to last

ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
Cause you won't do shit for me, and you'll use these facts against me if it comes to that.

[Exodus]

Generic:

"I'm not here to do X for you. Quit whining about it, you piece of shit."

[Slava]

Universal ethics mang. Everywhere in the world humans and animals feel the same way about fulfilling the dual seeking functions of others. You get what you give, and if you take more your a filthy parasite cancer cell that must be destroyed. If you have to take more then pay for it with status.

[FDG]

Don't Fe and Ne people have it easier? It's much easier to make things funny, interesting and make people laugh than, say, warning about danger.

[Slava]

Don't Fe and Ne people have it easier? It's much easier to make things funny, interesting and make people laugh than, say, warning about danger.

I could see some people laughing at the warning of danger, but then they would be dead soon after. And then I would laugh at their now nonexistant ignornance.

[mikemex]

LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"

My sister (probably LSE) complained "why you never say what you think about me in my face?".

I just told her she's an egoistic bitch and she didn't like it. Socionics doesn't work.

[Expat]

I do agree that our dual seeking function is, in a way, our "weakest" function because it's our neediest function. I've been thinking about it from that very perspective, and I can see how the role and dual seeking functions interact. When we want/need our dual seeking function to be fulfilled, sometimes we act out with our role. Hmmm....

The only difference between the 3rd and the 4th is accepting vs. producing. Same goes for the 5th and 6th.

So...

3rd is weak and producing, and 5th is weak and accepting (and the other end of the axis to our 1st function), so when we need our 5th we act out with our 3rd (and make an idiot of ourselves)

I agree with the 5th beeing the "neediest", but you also act with your 1st to get the 5th "fulfilled".

4th is weak and accepting, and 6th is weak and producing (and the other end of the axis to our 2nd function), so when we are lacking in or have problems with our 4th we act out with our 6th (and make an idiot of ourselves)

Can you give examples?

[Exodus]

Don't Fe and Ne people have it easier? It's much easier to make things funny, interesting and make people laugh than, say, warning about danger.

That's how I feel about extroverts in general. We introverts have to have high standards.

[Joy]

I do agree that our dual seeking function is, in a way, our "weakest" function because it's our neediest function. I've been thinking about it from that very perspective, and I can see how the role and dual seeking functions interact. When we want/need our dual seeking function to be fulfilled, sometimes we act out with our role. Hmmm....

The only difference between the 3rd and the 4th is accepting vs. producing. Same goes for the 5th and 6th.

So...

3rd is weak and producing, and 5th is weak and accepting (and the other end of the axis to our 1st function), so when we need our 5th we act out with our 3rd (and make an idiot of ourselves)

I agree with the 5th beeing the "neediest", but you also act with your 1st to get the 5th "fulfilled".

Yeah. The whole axis thing.

4th is weak and accepting, and 6th is weak and producing (and the other end of the axis to our 2nd function), so when we are lacking in or have problems with our 4th we act out with our 6th (and make an idiot of ourselves)

Can you give examples?

hmmm... I'll get back to you on that. The first thing that comes to mind though is ExTps.

[Khamelion]

Don't Fe and Ne people have it easier? It's much easier to make things funny, interesting and make people laugh than, say, warning about danger.

It's the other way around for me.

[SlavaPHP]

POLR hit feels like humiliation... "Crap, they can see my bad side, I'm really not evil please can we focus on whats important? I feel weak, please stop looking at my mess."

Dual seeking hit feels like betrayal... "Do you not appreciate all the things I do? Why wont you cover for what I can't do so that I can be fully active? Am I worthless to you? Please be my bitch so that I can be my fully conscious self myself, and not faded. Do you really want me to fade away?"

[Expat]

POLR hit feels like humiliation... "Crap, they can see my bad side, I'm really not evil please can we focus on whats important? I feel weak, please stop looking at my mess."

Dual seeking hit feels like betrayal... "Do you not appreciate all the things I do? Why wont you cover for what I can't do so that I can be fully active? Am I worthless to you? Please be my bitch so that I can be my fully conscious self myself, and not faded. Do you really want me to fade away?"

Except for "please be my bitch" I think this is very good.

[BLauritson]

Am I the only person who experiences anger more than humiliation when it comes to PoLR hits? All the references I see seem to point to embarassment or shame. Or perhaps I've completely misinterpreted every situation I can think of (which isn't much) where I've had a POLR hit. I dunno.

[Joy]

Yes, PoLR are more humiliating. I think a dual seeking hit hurts more though, and on a deeper level.

[BLauritson]

Hmm.. are there any particular functions which are more likely than others to cause anger when they're hit? I have a basic understanding at best of the individual functions, so I could quite easily be misidentifying what seemed to be PoLR hits.

[SlavaPHP]

POLR hit is when you say or do something humiliating, and people expect you to do it, but you are tempted to justify it and talk your way out of it, and it would only lead to more humiliation by doing so. Superid hit is much more deep than that and makes you feel like society doesnt care about you and that you dont need to be alive. ID hit is when you feel like half the man you were because you realize you only control half of what you think you control.