XoX's type - Evidence and Discussion

[UDP]

You have to know, you have to convince yourself. Expecting other people to do (for you) it is absolutely foolish. You have to write it out.

What are YOUR conclusions? State them explicitly.
And do it in such a way that you had to explain it to someone who knows socionics but has not read your thread yet: brief and concise.

That sounds reasonable.

Yeah it does, doesn't it?
Which is why you are... nevermind. You know it's reasonable and you don't even do it.

What I dislike is your hap-hazard approach to studying socionics. It's like an excuse for doing something miserably - "Well, I'm really pressed for time, and it's not that important to me anyway". Why do you do something if you know you are going to do something incredibly sloppily? Isn't that rather selfish, in all reality, to the people who spend time trying to teach you and educate you? "Don't cast your pearls before a swine" so to say.

It is the ultimate bail out to say "well I can come back and read through these 43 pages later, after I have more experience", but at the same times it seems quite disrespectful to the people, like Expat, who do take this seriously. I'm not speaking for him, no, but that is my view on the matter. You've got all these people running around you trying to answer your questions when the questions you are answering aren't even serious to you. (So why should people spend time making serious, well concluded replies to your questions?)

Whatever. I'm getting redundant, and you ought to know by now anyways.
We seem to have slowed from the 5 page per day pace - hopefully all the words here will benefit you in the future, as they are clearly meaningless at present.

[UDP]

It should be noted that I am being 'harsh' in this thread because no one else is. I believe it is important for that perspective to be presented.

[tcaudilllg]

I think this is a matter of reform vs. traditionalism. UDP, you can't tell the traditionalists anything that hasn't been handed down from some source of authority. They intentionally refuse to consider everything else. (they apparently think that it could be a road to evil or something)

But if you find some way to break through to them otherwise, let me know. (gah... Joy is the worst for this kind of thing)

[Slacker]

UDP - that kind of points to Ne preference, maybe? I'm going with Alpha > Beta for now for XoX It's hard to say - the only things I've seen very clearly are Fe>Fi and (not quite as clearly but pretty clear) Ti>Te

Of course, the Fe looking thing could be creative Fi and he and I could be identicals. Who knows. Hopefully we'll figure it out before the baby is born (I assume that's what is going to change his schedule).

[UDP]

If you're going to do something, actually try to do it well. There is not much seriousness in trying to actually learn socionics being displayed. I don't know what quadra you want to put that into.

[XoX]

Hopefully we'll figure it out before the baby is born (I assume that's what is going to change his schedule).

Oh noes. Baby is already over two months old And going to his first road trip on Easter. He'll have to spend something like 10 hours in a car on thursday and yet another 10 hours on sunday. We'll see what happens, lol. My schedule will change because my new job finally starts and I'm gonna put a lot of effort into that. The next two years or so will dictate where the rest of my life will go. Lately I have been at home playing with the kid and trying to do all I can to make sure I'm on top condition when the work starts (studying a lot, doing a lot of physical training, trying to find my type, and of course playing some online games which I can't resist, lol).

If you're going to do something, actually try to do it well. There is not much seriousness in trying to actually learn socionics being displayed. I don't know what quadra you want to put that into.

It is like I have too many projects going on...I have about 30 papers, documents or web sites listed which I want to read ASAP (ranging from 5 to 1500 pages), then I have the baby to play with (I'm trying to make him do simulated bench presses and neck training and some mental 'training' things like "free fall" and "babyquake" every day), then I want to do some physical training myself every day, then I should get to know some new technologies which I will need in my new job, I should technically meet some people too although that part is lacking badly, and then I try to participate in my typing thread where something is posted every hour for over two weeks, lol. Now it is like 4am and I still need to study one small paper, listen one podcast, do a little workout, go to 30 minutes walk and wake up before some guests come to see the baby (luckily not very early). I think I spread in too many directions..I so totally can't control it. The fact that I'm quite ineffective in my doings doesn't help at all (e.g. I'm a slow reader and I get easily distracted).

[UDP]

It is like I have too many projects going on...

BAM - then stop this one, and (thereby) stop doing it in such a poor manner. Spend your time doing other projects better, complete them, and then move on to this one.
Stop being a victim of your own design.





That's all that needs to be said, but for our entertainment....

I have about 30 papers, documents or web sites listed which I want to read ASAP (ranging from 5 to 1500 pages), then I have the baby to play with (I'm trying to make him do simulated bench presses and neck training and some mental 'training' things like "free fall" and "babyquake" every day), then I want to do some physical training myself every day, then I should get to know some new technologies which I will need in my new job, I should technically meet some people too although that part is lacking badly, and then I try to participate in my typing thread where something is posted every hour for over two weeks, lol.

Don't you have any priorities? Your baby should come first, IMO, but obviously I'm not the one in your shoes. Why are you complaining to us about all the things you have to do?

Do you think that engaging the sympathy of others excuses your behavior?

Now it is like 4am and I still need to study one small paper, listen one podcast, do a little workout, go to 30 minutes walk and wake up before some guests come to see the baby (luckily not very early).

Why are you even ATTEMPTING to study a serious set of theories, like socionics, in those circumstances? You're causing yourself more damage than any good, and you're damaging the forum as well. Please consider the consequences of your rushing about more deeply.

I think I spread in too many directions..I so totally can't control it.

WHAT?
Lets have another look:

I think I spread in too many directions..I so totally can't control it.

Then who can? You're baby? Your significant other? Your family? Who??
Who?
Who?

This isn't about irrationality or rationality or socionics - this is about your lack of accountability. At last the core of the problem is revealed -- you believe, for whatever reason, you're a victim of some horrible circumstance, and it is forcing you to study socionics in great haste, thereby causing this sort of thread to be generated. And you're now complaining to the same people who you asked for help and understanding from - saying that you don't have time to listen to them.

I think I spread in too many directions..I so totally can't control it. The fact that I'm quite ineffective in my doings doesn't help at all (e.g. I'm a slow reader and I get easily distracted).

I'm sorry if you are a slow reader* - but wouldn't it be better to not have allowed the thread to become 43 pages long if that is really something you are concerned about?
( * note: I'm a slower reader than almost everyone I've met)

Until you start being proactive and taking responsibility for your situation, then this process is going to continue. I still stand by my statements I made on page 14 of this thread: you ought to take a break from socionics.


It sounds like you have a lot of other things going on - more important things at any rate - like your child, and your physical health.

Now it is like 4am and I still need to study one small paper, listen one podcast, do a little workout, go to 30 minutes walk and wake up before some guests come to see the baby (luckily not very early).

In my opinion studying a serious theory like socionics is not something you should try to do whilst scrambling around in the early morning hours. Especially if you are up until 4 am. You must, must, must take accountability for your actions, and decide what you want to do. You cannot do everything, especially if you want to do it with some skill. It seems relatively absurd to really think you are going to be able to learn anything under those conditions.



So really - I am glad you are interested in socionics. I think you can be a valuable member of this forum, and in no way do I want to discriminate people from the socionics experience. However you seem quite unprepared to do this with any sort of competency - and it sounds like you have a multitude of other things you ought to take care of before you even consider visiting this site. Unless someone is forcing you to read socionics material as part of your job or course material, then I really suggest you take a break from it, as you are not doing it, or yourself, any good by spending time on it. Socionics is a luxury.

Now, to empathize, my worst posts are when I am in a hurry and I subconsciously know I have other things I want to do. The essence of being rushed is reflected in my writing. I believe that is what is happening to you, and I believe you also to be more competent than you are presenting yourself ---- but you know you have other things to be doing. I'd be happy to really discuss socionics with you later on, but at your current state, it seems quite pointless.



To close:

It is like I have too many projects going on...

BAM - then stop this one, and (thereby) stop doing it in such a poor manner. Spend your time doing other projects better, complete them, and then move on to this one.
Stop being a victim of your own design.

[XoX]

It is like I have too many projects going on...

BAM - then stop this one, and (thereby) stop doing it in such a poor manner. Spend your time doing other projects better, complete them, and then move on to this one.
Stop being a victim of your own design.

Technically true. In practice it is harder because I'm often at the computer and get a sudden urge to log in here. I get bored at least once per hour of work (usually sooner) and this place always offer something interesting new things to check. However this whole typing thing got out of hands after I made this thread (and the point of this thread was to sort of...contain it or something). Ok but I think this thread will prove to be a success in the long run I'm sure. It has provided so much new information which I have yet to assimilate fully but it is slowly progressing in my brain.

I have about 30 papers, documents or web sites listed which I want to read ASAP (ranging from 5 to 1500 pages), then I have the baby to play with (I'm trying to make him do simulated bench presses and neck training and some mental 'training' things like "free fall" and "babyquake" every day), then I want to do some physical training myself every day, then I should get to know some new technologies which I will need in my new job, I should technically meet some people too although that part is lacking badly, and then I try to participate in my typing thread where something is posted every hour for over two weeks, lol.

Don't you have any priorities? Your baby should come first, IMO, but obviously I'm not the one in your shoes. Why are you complaining to us about all the things you have to do?

Well I'm not taking care of the baby alone so it is not like I have to be with him 24 hours a day Anyways why am I complaining...I don't know. It made me feel better because it sucks that it is so late and I have so many things to do and I needed to get some extra energy or something.

Do you think that engaging the sympathy of others excuses your behavior?

Well I wasn't expecting much sympathy I'm not looking for excuses either (well perhaps for my own purposes but not for others).

Now it is like 4am and I still need to study one small paper, listen one podcast, do a little workout, go to 30 minutes walk and wake up before some guests come to see the baby (luckily not very early).

Why are you even ATTEMPTING to study a serious set of theories, like socionics, in those circumstances? You're causing yourself more damage than any good, and you're damaging the forum as well. Please consider the consequences of your rushing about more deeply.

Hmm..how am I damaging the forum? I don't think I'm damaging myself either although I'm streching myself a bit too much currently. But it is hard not to as it is kind of my nature...umm...I wonder how should I approach that?

I think I spread in too many directions..I so totally can't control it.

WHAT?
Lets have another look:

I think I spread in too many directions..I so totally can't control it.

Then who can? You're baby? Your significant other? Your family? Who??
Who?
Who?

Who...good question. Some people have a calming effect on me btw which I like Most don't. But yes I could technically do it but there is so many things to do and so little time. I always excuse it by thinking it is temporary which it kind of is as I probably calm down a bit in two weeks when I again have deadlines and all kinds of responsibilities which force to me focus. I sort of need that "forced focus" i.e. a situation where it becomes clear that you HAVE TO focus because it is the only option. Somehow I need to get that focus in times where there is no external pressure.

This isn't about irrationality or rationality or socionics - this is about your lack of accountability. At last the core of the problem is revealed -- you believe, for whatever reason, you're a victim of some horrible circumstance, and it is forcing you to study socionics in great haste, thereby causing this sort of thread to be generated. And you're now complaining to the same people who you asked for help and understanding from - saying that you don't have time to listen to them.

Well, that kind of hurts. Ok but the victim thing. I don't see it really as being a victim because I create that circumstance myself. I can accumulate a lot of internal stress even without outside pressure. It is actually a strange thing. I just feel like so many things pulling me to different directions. Again I don't quite see how this thread got so out of hands. I think it partly was because I somehow got emotionally involved in the arguments which made me agitated and defensive and unable to think clearly. The self generated stress helped in building that. Here it is good to remind that there are many pages in this thread which I wasn't writing at all. I didn't create nearly all this stuff.

I think I spread in too many directions..I so totally can't control it. The fact that I'm quite ineffective in my doings doesn't help at all (e.g. I'm a slow reader and I get easily distracted).

I'm sorry if you are a slow reader* - but wouldn't it be better to not have allowed the thread to become 43 pages long if that is really something you are concerned about?
( * note: I'm a slower reader than almost everyone I've met)

Until you start being proactive and taking responsibility for your situation, then this process is going to continue. I still stand by my statements I made on page 14 of this thread: you ought to take a break from socionics.

I think I will take that advice soon I took a several months break last year and it was refreshing. But something in this place is like a magnet.

It sounds like you have a lot of other things going on - more important things at any rate - like your child, and your physical health.

I'm in very good physical health imho and I also give at least as much time to the baby as any person who goes to work regularly. But well there is some truth to that.

Now it is like 4am and I still need to study one small paper, listen one podcast, do a little workout, go to 30 minutes walk and wake up before some guests come to see the baby (luckily not very early).

In my opinion studying a serious theory like socionics is not something you should try to do whilst scrambling around in the early morning hours. Especially if you are up until 4 am. You must, must, must take accountability for your actions, and decide what you want to do. You cannot do everything, especially if you want to do it with some skill. It seems relatively absurd to really think you are going to be able to learn anything under those conditions.

Well 4am for me is not the same thing as 4am for some other people. As when I'm not bound by some system (like school, work) then I tend to stay awake very late and sleep long in the morning. I try to catch 8 hours of sleep every day although I sometimes miss it. I know people who sleep way less (e.g. FDG). And actually even during college I liked to study at night. It goes ok if I get to sleep the 8 hours. It doesn't matter much at what time I do it. Or perhaps it does matter and i just don't recognize the effect.

So really - I am glad you are interested in socionics. I think you can be a valuable member of this forum, and in no way do I want to discriminate people from the socionics experience. However you seem quite unprepared to do this with any sort of competency - and it sounds like you have a multitude of other things you ought to take care of before you even consider visiting this site. Unless someone is forcing you to read socionics material as part of your job or course material, then I really suggest you take a break from it, as you are not doing it, or yourself, any good by spending time on it. Socionics is a luxury.

I actually didn't see how people take this so seriously. Of course it is in the sense that it might break out to be something relevant in a global scale in the future. Still I somehow didn't see how people are sensitive to bad arguments and everything.

Now, to empathize, my worst posts are when I am in a hurry and I subconsciously know I have other things I want to do. The essence of being rushed is reflected in my writing. I believe that is what is happening to you, and I believe you also to be more competent than you are presenting yourself ---- but you know you have other things to be doing. I'd be happy to really discuss socionics with you later on, but at your current state, it seems quite pointless.

ZOMG. I wan't to achieve a state where i DON'T think like I have other things I want to do. That would be a luxury. I generally need other people to calm me down to that point. My father-in-law e.g. has a very calming effect on me. He can put things well in perspective.

The main problem is...I like this situation where I am. Where I have more to do than I can do. It makes me feel alive and not bored. So even if I understand the absurdity of this all it still feeds some part of me which wants to go on. I tend to get bored easily if I don't keep up the pace. I'm afraid that if I drop this site I find something else to replace it with. I actually already did drop one online game of the two I play more seriously so it is possible to drop things, lol. But yes..trying to be serious now...I can't promise to totally drop this site (even though many people would possibly like that at this point ) but I can try to not interfere with the normal dynamics of the forum and just write "harmless" posts like I usually do. Only lately have I been more active in these less harmless posts which was kind of planned increase in involvement and went pretty bad

Btw where are all these socionics articles people keep referring to? I mean I can't really find any.

Oh and thanks for all these discussions anyways. It was been a pleasure despite the occasional bad lapses in the level of communication. As usual I'm sorry for causing bad blood. It is getting old but I really am. It is hard for me to see how my behavior affects other people. Other people's behavior doesn't affect me too much (at least not in the long term) so I kind of forget that it is not necessarily same for everyone.

And really I don't talk this much in real life. I just like to write and can do it quite fast. IRL I'm generally slow and careful to formulate what I say except when I get in the talkative mood. Oh one thing which probably affects it that I feel so familiar with everyone here that I write without much "restraints". I generally get this feeling in electronic forums. In real life I tend to be way more distant. I don't know what that phenomena really means. Here I almost feel like I belong to a "mental internet" and forget that you are real people who can annoyed etc. I just keep blapping without much self-criticism (like right now, lol).

[UDP]

As usual I'm sorry for causing bad blood. It is getting old but I really am. It is hard for me to see how my behavior affects other people. Other people's behavior doesn't affect me too much (at least not in the long term) so I kind of forget that it is not necessarily same for everyone.

Sincerely - I don't have anything against you on a personal level. But I know the course of my actions inevitably leads to that feeling. So I apologize for any great incivilities I've bestowed upon you.
My concern ultimately lies with 'your ', and the potential of the situation was not maximized.
It seems I have said plenty at this point, however, so I will remove myself from being "on your case".
Good luck with everything.

[UDP]

- The fact that you are acting as an Ep right now (how you are rushing about) does not mean you are Ep, or even E - especially if it is not working well for you. It could mean you are living in an environment that is not well suited to your psychological type.

[XoX]

- The fact that you are acting as an Ep right now (how you are rushing about) does not mean you are Ep, or even E - especially if it is not working well for you. It could mean you are living in an environment that is not well suited to your psychological type.

Ah yes. True. I get the Ep "feeling" exactly because I rush and am mentally "over active" currently and have been every now and then before. However just yesterday an ISFj was visiting to see the baby and told that he is probably going to be very calm because the father is so calm. So apparently from ISFj point of view I'm very calm IRL. Knowing how calm ISFj often are themselves that should mean something.

Oh and newsflash about babies: they sleep like 16 hours a day. Then they spend considerably amount of time sucking the breast. So if there are two people taking care of the baby then one only have to be with them like 2-3 hours a day (+ the breast feeding) and they are fully satisfied. I can easily do that even with my current schedule. So no need to worry about the baby I have actually combined a sort of "baby workout" to my physical workout where I use the baby as a weight. He likes it a lot, lol. Taking care of babies is really easy and fun

I wonder if this thread has finally reached its conclusion. Types got stuck in INFp, INTp, ENFp, ENTp with INFp or ENTp at the top I guess. And majority rejecting INTp completely. I guess I work the rest out myself.

[Ms. Kensington]

I wonder if this thread has finally reached its conclusion. Types got stuck in INFp, INTp, ENFp, ENTp with INFp or ENTp at the top I guess. And majority rejecting INTp completely. I guess I work the rest out myself.

i am totally not being sarcastic when i say that this is a lovely prospect. We have people who have given reasoned opinions and they are different from each other, and you seem to have gotten some peace from that even if you have to come to another conclusion on your own.

[XoX]

I wonder if this thread has finally reached its conclusion. Types got stuck in INFp, INTp, ENFp, ENTp with INFp or ENTp at the top I guess. And majority rejecting INTp completely. I guess I work the rest out myself.

i am totally not being sarcastic when i say that this is a lovely prospect. We have people who have given reasoned opinions and they are different from each other, and you seem to have gotten some peace from that even if you have to come to another conclusion on your own.

The amount of information (even useful information) passed around during this effort is huge. I think that after it all will really get processed it will cause a clear leap in mine and hopefully someone else's understanding. I think all in all a great effort and definately useful. It is sad that certain people felt it went "too far" and got "too messy" as technically the actual relevant information content could have been said in much shorter amount of pages. Anyways it seems to have been a good idea to contain this information in this thread instead of it being spread around in several threads. Makes things cleaner even if it results in one giant and inconsistent thread

[XoX]

I put easyTIM v0.1.5 results here so I can find them later.
http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...=196164#196164

[Joy]

I'm um... not going to read this whole thread... it grew too fast for me to keep up with. I'm curious though, what part of what I said did you relate to? Could you expand on it a little?

Generally when someone compliments me I immediately wonder what they want. It's not always on a suspicious way... more like I'm just trying to understand the situation. I dislike feeling like something is expected of me, so I feel very "put on the spot" when someone compliments me.

That is a VERY good opinion, Joy.

[Creepy-bg]

I wonder how long this thread can get...

[XoX]

I'm um... not going to read this whole thread... it grew too fast for me to keep up with. I'm curious though, what part of what I said did you relate to? Could you expand on it a little?

Generally when someone compliments me I immediately wonder what they want. It's not always on a suspicious way... more like I'm just trying to understand the situation. I dislike feeling like something is expected of me, so I feel very "put on the spot" when someone compliments me.

That is a VERY good opinion, Joy.

Oh that. It was a joke. I was trying to harrass you by complementing you. Apparently it failed to deliver.

However to answer your question somehow I quote what I wrote in the same thread:

Here is one example of me and compliments....

We had a visitor who came to see the baby. At the door she said to me "congratulations!". Well I didn't know how to take it or how to answer so I blurted in panic "you too!" or was it "same to you!". Then she was like "Umm..about what?". Then I was like "Umm...I don't know....for being you?". She was like "ok.........". Lol. It was a bit weird I think she is SEE btw.

I doubt that even you are that bad at receiving compliments? About doubting the motives things. Yes I can do that if I sense that the person is insincere. However often times I think many compliments are quite sincere part of social bonding I just fail to answer them properly.

Now this might be my last post before next Sunday or so. Leaving pretty soon for a 10 hour ride to vErY nOrTh and I'll be back on Sunday. Not quite Lapland but somewhere around there somewhat south from the arctic circle. And it isn't even cold there anymore. How sad.

[Joy]

I'm um... not going to read this whole thread... it grew too fast for me to keep up with. I'm curious though, what part of what I said did you relate to? Could you expand on it a little?

Generally when someone compliments me I immediately wonder what they want. It's not always on a suspicious way... more like I'm just trying to understand the situation. I dislike feeling like something is expected of me, so I feel very "put on the spot" when someone compliments me.

That is a VERY good opinion, Joy.

Oh that. It was a joke. I was trying to harrass you by complementing you. Apparently it failed to deliver.

oic.... yeah, I missed that. I thought you were stating that you relate to what I said in a grammatically incorrect way.

However to answer your question somehow I quote what I wrote in the same thread:

Here is one example of me and compliments....

We had a visitor who came to see the baby. At the door she said to me "congratulations!". Well I didn't know how to take it or how to answer so I blurted in panic "you too!" or was it "same to you!". Then she was like "Umm..about what?". Then I was like "Umm...I don't know....for being you?". She was like "ok.........". Lol. It was a bit weird I think she is SEE btw.

I doubt that even you are that bad at receiving compliments? About doubting the motives things. Yes I can do that if I sense that the person is insincere. However often times I think many compliments are quite sincere part of social bonding I just fail to answer them properly.

Now this might be my last post before next Sunday or so. Leaving pretty soon for a 10 hour ride to vErY nOrTh and I'll be back on Sunday. Not quite Lapland but somewhere around there somewhat south from the arctic circle. And it isn't even cold there anymore. How sad.

that's funny and cute in an INFp kind of way

I agree that a lot of compliments are intended to be sincerely warm, even if not entirely sincere.

[XoX]

Newsflash:

I have managed to meet quite a lot of new people in the last two weeks.

I have met lately people of several types who were not AT ALL like me:
ENTx (I'm not sure yet which one), INTj (Ne), ESTj, potential ISFj(?), likely ESxp, potential ISxj

I have also met people who were not really like me but the difference is less clear:
likely ENFp, likely INTp (Te), potential INFp (Fe). The funny thing is these people are clearly distinguishable from each other but I have some problems telling which I am closest to (because I can see just about same amount of differences between me and any of them, lol). Ok perhaps the ENFp is a bit less like me than the others.

I have yet to meet an ISTp, INTp(Ni) or INFp(Ni) to compare. What bothers me is the certain...differences between me and the INTp(Te) and INFp(Fe). I wonder how much subtype can affect there.

Damn it helps to meet a lot of strangers. Meeting the same people all the time kind of blurs your relation to them.

Edit: Oh I forgot I met a potential INFj too and no real similarity there either.

Let's see...I have yet to meet an ENFj too. That and ISTp, INTp(Ni), INFp(Ni). And I'm not sure if the ENTx is j or p. Other than that I have met just about everyone I needed to (I'm quite sure more ESFjs and ISFps are not needed).