INTJ men-I need your input please

[Tickled Pink]

Hello Everyone! :wink:


I am an ENFP who is engaged to wed an INTJ. I use to be an advent reader of this forum and posted a few questions under a different user name. The members on this forum were gracious enough to enlighten me on INTJ’s in a romantic relationship. I find myself once again pleading for a ray of light, which could help me understand an INTJ mindset.

You see, I was a in very intimate relationship with an extrovert that was full of turmoil and strife. I learned over time that I desired a steady hand. I yearned for an unemotional and reliable heart in order to complete me. My Ex was just way to poignant. –Yikes! Anyways, the relationship ended with his confession of 3 adulterous relationships.

So here I stand once again with a man whom I totally trust and admire. He completes me and I entertain him with my spunky attitude. He is everything I ever wanted and I am so blessed to have met him. He makes me extremely happy!

I read somewhere on this forum by Pedro-the-Lion (I believe- If my memory has not failed me) that INTJ’s are extremely faithful and that I need not fear him straying. Is it illogical to an INTJ to cheat on his girlfriend/wife? I would love some honest feedback from a few INTJ men on their view of immorality and if they ever considered the grass on the other side- so to speak



Thank You In advance

[science as magic]

I read somewhere on this forum by Pedro-the-Lion (I believe- If my memory has not failed me) that INTJ’s are extremely faithful and that I need not fear him straying.

I do not recall saying anything like this. Could you enlighten me as to your former username? ENFPlikesINTJ or something of that nature?

[Tickled Pink]

You dissected my extremely long post about a year ago. You were very inquisitive and generous with advice. You even stated that my description of my INTJ reminded you of yourself! You found this fact really interesting. Sounds Familiar?


You were exceptionally helpful and kind. Thank you for all of your guidance. I really appreciate the time and effort that you invested in each reply- Your Awesome!

[aestrivex]

no; faithfulness is not necessarily type related, particularly for an LII.

[Not A Communist Shill]

For embarrasment purposes: (that thread from a long time ago):
http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...89c306c80#5987

All the ENFps I've met were\are fascinating...when they complain about things, you think they are going to bring up something you did that you hadn't even realised, only to find they are complaining about things in general (the weather, people, the atmosphere of a room etc.), which is quite refreshing but a bit scary. I feel like I agree largely with what they say, and to express an opinion which only deviates slightly from theirs would be nitpicking, so I don't say anything . When they ask me what I mean by something, I feel compelled to actually go to greater depth\detail for a change and tell them something more personal about myself, but I'm never sure they truly understand (they seem non-responsive and lost in thought sometimes - I think they have lost interest or are simply using me as some kind of background noise which they need to operate, or something...).

Another thing I've notice is that they seem wary of conflict - if people are arguing, the ENFp tries to intervene with some neutral comment about the weather etc., or try to introduce a 'happier' topic of conversation (the people arguing in this case were me and a ISTj, which must hurt a ENFps ears ) - they seem drowned out by the harsh dialogue possibly.

I think INTjs tend to see things as happening for a reason...so for example, if you were to cheat on a INTj, they might feel intense guilt for something they did, or think they aren't good enough, or at the other extreme, they'll think you did it on purpose just to spite them, which would possibly be a INTjs worst nightmare (that someone else's feelings towards them were never true). From my own perspective, I'd be willing to forgive someone who cheated on me, because if I believe they are sincerely sorry for what they have done, they are less likely to cheat than someone I don't know so well.

I think it's certainly possible for a INTj to stray, but INTjs don't particularly have much incentive to do anything . I think if I was inclined to stray in a relationship, I'd be honest about it to the person I'm with - if they were understanding about my 'honesty' and didn't see it as threat to the relationship, then I'd know to stay with that person (if I have to hide my thoughts + feelings away to give the appearance of a perfect relationship, I'd feel trapped). But if they didn't respond in a positive manner, I would probably disappear and end up in Tibet several years later or something. So, I think if a ENFp is in a relationship with a INTj, it is important for both to be open about poorly-formed or abstract ponderings from each other, and not necessarily see it as a threat to the relationship. The INTj needs to be wary of putting the ENFp into a depression by talking all the time, basically, and the ENFp needs to ensure they don't treat the INTj as some form of entertainment . From a ENFp point of view, you should try not to get upset when the INTj is talking in a rather cold + abstract manner, and you should possibly make fun of the INTjs mannerisms or speech or something (it might be difficult to determine the appropiate level) - ENFps seem unwilling to offend sometimes, and so it seems they are thinking negative thoughts at times.

[UDP]

I read somewhere on this forum by Pedro-the-Lion (I believe- If my memory has not failed me) that INTJ’s are extremely faithful and that I need not fear him straying. Is it illogical to an INTJ to cheat on his girlfriend/wife? I would love some honest feedback from a few INTJ men on their view of immorality and if they ever considered the grass on the other side- so to speak

Personality pages: http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ_rel.html


I can only speak for myself:

• It should be noted that a mark of the INTJ is competence- doing something well, certainty. The more important something is to an INTJ, the better he will want to be at it. This is especially true in relationships.
  
  [list:883edd8486]
• Proximity: is probably the best indicator for an INTJ in terms of relationships.
  Like anything else, the more time an INTJ spends on something the more important it is to him.
  
• Success & Progress: doing something well is important to an INTJ. INTJs do not like to half ass things, or have a mediocre understanding or performance, and this is the case in relationships. If they are going to get into a relationship, they are not likely to invest time and energy into something that looks to be mediocre or a failure. And once they commit themselves, decide they want to make this relationship a success, it will be very important for the INTJ to learn how to make the relationship work.
  
  Some INTJs struggle here, because they want a relationship to be successful, but in fact are terrible at relationship. So someone who can help them learn in this area would be good. As on the personalitypages.com, there are some weaknesses that have to do with INTJ arrogance and thinking they know everything, so the INTJ will have to humble himself to learn how things work. But if you are willing to share that experience with him, it would be appreciated. If you want points with an INTJ, showing concern about how well a relationship is, and looking to improve your relationship with an INTJ is a good idea.
  
  A relationship that shows no forward progress is troubling for an INTJ, especially if it is one where feelings are involved. INTJs are terrible with feelings as it is, so a relationship that is not moving forward at all is uncomfortable. The INTJ will wonder not only about the partner but also his own efforts. Now, the relationship does not have to be progressing at a rapid speed, either: steady, gradual progress is fine.
  
  
• Fidelity: As long as the INTJ knows that you still care, and you still have feelings --- and he doesn't have to guess about how you feel..... As long as there is no uncertainty in his understanding of your relationship to him, then there will be no uncertainty on his part. As long as the INTJ can be certain about how you feel about him, and that you want to be in a relationship with him, then he will extremely loyal.
  
  Generally speaking it would be unlike an INTJ to carry on multiple relationships, especially behind the back of someone, as that would be a division in energy and time. Furthermore, it would distort the INTJs priorities. Speaking for myself, the whole point of seeking to be in a close, one-on-one relationship is to have a close intimate relationship with one person, and to succeed at it. Getting involved with other people once I have committed to a relationship would be very difficult, as it would clearly affect my ability to be sincere in regard to either person. Again, speaking for myself, I have never considered "infidelity" as a real option. The only thing I ever really considered was how well the relationship was going, and how likely its success was.
  
  So yes, in one sense it would be illogical for an INTJ to try to carry on multiple relationships at once. So long as the INTJ's ideal relationship is envisioned as a close, monogamous relationship, deviating from that would be disappointing and regrettable (at least for me).
  
  
  If you want to cause an INTJ pain, be very wishy-washy and uncertain in expressing your feelings to him, in talking about your relationship. INTJs do not like this at all, and if there is too much it, they will end the relationship as such a state is too painful to bear. It is better to have solitude than someone who cannot properly take care of the emotional setting in that way. So uncertainty and disloyalty on the partner's part is one thing that will lead to the INTJ questioning things himself.

[/list:u:883edd8486]

Again, speaking for myself, I am incredibly selective about the people I choose to associate with, especially in terms of sharing a close psychological distance, or who I invite into my inner circle. I have high standards, but I do my best to not let superficialities get in the way of determining the character of other people. (This post very much reminds me of the character "Mr. Darcy").

Also, it should be noted that some liabilities affect all people: General psychological state, maturity, ability and desire to relate to others, etc.
If an INTJ, or any other type of person, is immature and very self centered, it is unlikely they can have a successful relationship with anyone. No one type of person is "incapable of fidelity". It is everyone's own responsibility to know the values of their prospective partners, and determine whether or not there is a true compatibility in that way.

[oyburger]

I call my ENFp friend "spunky" lol.

I'm female but as for myself I'm very loyal; be it friends, family or a spouse. I don't know if this is type related or not considering that there are other factors in play, but I'd never cheat and I can't imagine I'd cheat if I had a penis to complicate things.

[aestrivex]

If you want to cause an INTJ pain, be very wishy-washy and uncertain in expressing your feelings to him, in talking about your relationship. INTJs do not like this at all, and if there is too much it, they will end the relationship as such a state is too painful to bear. It is better to have solitude than someone who cannot properly take care of the emotional setting in that way. So uncertainty and disloyalty on the partner's part is one thing that will lead to the INTJ questioning things himself.

AMEN!

that is not how an LII would react at all.

[rpbailey]

If you want to cause an INTJ pain, be very wishy-washy and uncertain in expressing your feelings to him, in talking about your relationship. INTJs do not like this at all, and if there is too much it, they will end the relationship as such a state is too painful to bear. It is better to have solitude than someone who cannot properly take care of the emotional setting in that way. So uncertainty and disloyalty on the partner's part is one thing that will lead to the INTJ questioning things himself.

AMEN!

that is not how an LII would react at all.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm fairly immune to others' emotional states. Being wishy-washy and uncertain wouldn't phase me -- I wouldn't care.

As far as cheating goes, if someone cheated on me, the relationship would be over. Period. Sometimes a large incident is what it takes to see all the small cracks that previously went unnoticed. I'm working on ending a close, 6-year friendship now, and in retrospect I'm noticing all these tiny things that she did that should have raised flags. Even if my friend came begging me to fix things, I wouldn't. And maybe I'm an asshole, but my #1 priority is to maintain a "safety bubble" for myself to operate in.

[UDP]

nothing you said, rpb, was very contradictory to my own state.

I could not tolerate, however, someone who was unsure about being with me, because when I make my decision it is pretty unalterable. The greater the commitment, the harder it is for me to change. But also, the harder it is --- the more respect and confidence in the other person's character I need to have.

If someone outrightly cheats on me then that would be a huge thing. It would not "affect me" --- and I think this is what you were getting at, rpb --- as once someone does something like that, it is a huge blow to their character and respect I have for them. If someone made such a clear decision, then it would be incredibly easy to walk away. I would be disappointed if I did not foresee it, and disappointed that I selected someone who would turn out to be a failure (in terms of having a successful relationship)


what islandgirl quoted was has to do when my feelings get the best of me. The general point was, f you are certain about being committed to the relationship yourself, that will be a great way to maintain INTJ fidelity. INTJs are serious about things they choose to do, and do not make relationships or associations lightly. To make a relationship, and then change your mind a week later, would be very unlikely, so long as there were no reasons to change that decision. INTJs are fairly logical about their relationships, as described above.


the very fact that an INTJ chose to enter a relationship to you says a lot about how the INTJ feels about you. Most people don't seem to understand that of course.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[stries]

>>As long as the INTJ can be certain about how you feel about him, and that you want to be in a relationship with him, then he will extremely loyal.


I am INTJ and I know few INTJ friends. I completely agree with above statement of UDP. I never want to consider another relationship unless existing one is bad . We are extremely loyal , not sure how others read us .

[Exodus]

If you want to cause an INTJ pain, be very wishy-washy and uncertain in expressing your feelings to him, in talking about your relationship. INTJs do not like this at all, and if there is too much it, they will end the relationship as such a state is too painful to bear. It is better to have solitude than someone who cannot properly take care of the emotional setting in that way. So uncertainty and disloyalty on the partner's part is one thing that will lead to the INTJ questioning things himself.

AMEN!

that is not how an LII would react at all.

Yeah, I would say that he (I) would appreciate that you're expressing your feelings in the first place. "taking care of the emotional setting" is the main thing.

(I'm talking about LIIs/INTjs here)

[UDP]

? You say that as if it contradicts what I wrote


If you are wishy-washy in your relations, in your feelings, and loyalty to an INTJ --- how could that be considered taking care of the emotional setting? Not at all. That would be damaging to the emotional setting. That would be poor management of the emotional setting. The opposite would be: showing consistent desire to maintain and generate contact with the INTJ; frequently expressing positive feelings; and frequently demonstrating loyalty.


Consider the difference between ESFp and ESFj
ESFp would be more inclined to express things on occurrence of their happenings, or on an irrational scale - as things came up. ESFps are more spontaneous, and dare I say fickle, from an LII perspective, and as such are seeking a flexible and adaptable victim type in the INTp
ESFj would make a note to be consistent in their expressions, in their loyalties and in their likings. ESFjs look for someone more steadfast and sturdy.
EJ looks for an IJ rock they can depend on, EP looks for IP's flexibility to put up with their constant fluctuations

[UDP]

^exactly

[Exodus]

? You say that as if it contradicts what I wrote


If you are wishy-washy in your relations, in your feelings, and loyalty to an INTJ --- how could that be considered taking care of the emotional setting? Not at all. That would be damaging to the emotional setting. That would be poor management of the emotional setting. The opposite would be: showing consistent desire to maintain and generate contact with the INTJ; frequently expressing positive feelings; and frequently demonstrating loyalty.


Consider the difference between ESFp and ESFj
ESFp would be more inclined to express things on occurrence of their happenings, or on an irrational scale - as things came up. ESFps are more spontaneous, and dare I say fickle, from an LII perspective, and as such are seeking a flexible and adaptable victim type in the INTp
ESFj would make a note to be consistent in their expressions, in their loyalties and in their likings. ESFjs look for someone more steadfast and sturdy.
EJ looks for an IJ rock they can depend on, EP looks for IP's flexibility to put up with their constant fluctuations

I suppose you're right: emotional certainty would be the ideal. However I don't think it's an absolute necessity, in my case at least. You could really attribute this kind of uncertainness to any irrational type's behavior, not just ESFps.

[UDP]

Isn't a main point of dual seeking that you are looking for constant, consistent emotional, clear expressions that someone likes you?

It is connected very carefully to the mood of those surrounding. In the company of malosimpatichnykh to it people it is held bound and locked. Only falling into the situation of unconstrained merriment, sincere cordiality, sincere heat and cosiness, begin "to thaw", it weakens, is charged by overall mood, he becomes charming and interesting collocutor. It begins to literally sparkle by merriment, it smiles by the obayatel'neyshey, "solar" smile, thinly elegant it jokes, with the pleasure it entertains company by any amusing histories, which it usually is desirable to memorize and then still someone to retell.

Being in the state of emotional lift, Robesp'er very rapidly conquers sympathies, with the ease he becomes the soul of company and is capable any evening to make unforgettable. External coldness and the severity Of robesp'era - this not is more than the shielding shell of its easily ranimoy soul. And best anything this understands precisely dual Of robesp'era - Hugo. The unapproachable restraint Of robesp'era not only excites the curiosity of Hugo (who frequently finds pleasure in overcoming of, it would seem, the insurmountable difficulties). It serves its kind as "touchstone" for the search of the psychologically compatible partner.

In order to light these external "ices", is required the enormous sincere heat-, expressed in the emotional flow of the specific quality and nature. With the characteristic of it sincere flame and the energy of Hugo it storms this "unapproachable stronghold" so that entire robesp'erovskaya "coldness" is scattered as Hugo's smoke, although it does not hold in control itself in the manifestation of emotions, nevertheless makes this sufficiently tactfully (Robesp'er it does not allow violence above itself). Hugo manifests his emotions very aesthetically, is intelligent, with the taste, s. by a constant concern about feelings and about conveniences in its partner. Hugo - only of all types of "etikov-sensorikov", capable of emotionally acting on Robesp'era very optimally. Only in the society of Hugo Robesp'er feels itself by properly calm, protected. Only it can properly be weakened next to it.

Those aspects of LII descriptions are some of the most significant, IMO.

[Exodus]

Yes.

I am not disagreeing with you.