Laziness
I think Laziness is probably correlated to being an introtim. I'm a pretty strong introtim and I'm lazy.
Reasoning inmeans, enneatypes 4-5-9 ("withdrawn group") are the least motivated. But in this enneatype group only 10-20% are extrotims. in socioniko.net I read that initiative is correlated with being an extrotim. If 459 is correlated to being an introtim and tending to lack initiative is correlated to being an introtim, then 459 + lack of initiative is probably correlated to laziness.
Re: Laziness
Probably correct.Originally Posted by machintruc
Reasoning in
What is the evidence for that? I suspect that somewhere around 0% of the correctly typed persons in that enneatype group are extrotims (extraverts).
Probably more correct than not.in socioniko.net I read that initiative is correlated with being an extrotim. If 459 is correlated to being an introtim and tending to lack initiative is correlated to being an introtim, then 459 + lack of initiative is probably correlated to laziness.
Re: Laziness
you're confusing correlations with "overlapping zones" ; for example, I've known people who were (if I typed them correctly) :What is the evidence for that? I suspect that somewhere around 0% of the correctly typed persons in that enneatype group are extrotims (extraverts).
a school supervisor : 5-ENTp
another : 8-ISTj
a classmate : cp6-ENTj
another : 8-ISTp
a friend in my catholic youth association : 2-ISTj
another : 9-INTp
another : 6-ENFj
another : 3-ENFp
my driving teacher : 1-ESTj
an aunt : 8-ENFp
a former coworker of my mother : 7-ENFj
a former friend of my father : 5-ENTj
these are not necessarily infrequent combinations, but they are not prototypical.
and, according to Pareto's Law, we can say that 20% of the possible 144 combinations are shared by 80% of people.
Re: Laziness
You and your black and white thinking. 9s can be extraverts.
However...
wrong.a jewish former friend of my father : 5-ENTj
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Re: Laziness
yet... right !
let's do another
E = energy-spending
I = energy-saving
459 = energy-poor
378 = energy-rich
think of it as it was money.
a rich person is likely to spend money, and a poor person is likely to save it. right ?
but you can be rich and saving money, and poor and spending money. that's not impossible.
but, be poor and spending is less viable than be rich and saving. that explains why 459 extroverts are probably less frequent than 378 introverts. a 459 extrovert is subject to "energy-bankruptcy"...
i'm not saying that 459 cannot be E. I'm saying that 5s cannot be E due to the definition of type 5.
Also your analogy is self contradictory, you say E=energy spending then you say E=higher level of energy which isn't necessarily true; if E=energy spending and the types you list are energy conserving then they cannot be E of course. I do not think this is true but your definition implies it
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Wagele herself said that an extrovert 5 is possible.
http://www.9types.com/descr/5/baron2.html
Social Fives: "Recognition and Hierarchy"
* I prefer to work in a flexible, unstructured way and to set my own goals.
* I like either to be self-employed or to have a safe nook in the hierarchy of a university or company where I can be relatively autonomous.
* Rules and regulations often get in my way.
* When I do high-quality work, I like praise from people who matter to me, but I don't usually ask for it.
* Either I attend meetings in order to pick up knowledge and meet interesting people, or I avoid groups and organizations altogether.
* As an extrovert, I like overt attention for my ideas and contributions, As an introvert, I am usually satisfied by having my work known and my name respected but am embarrassed by showy accolades.
* I love to dig out information and find out what the experts in my field, and in other fields, have to say.
Social Fives usually appear more extroverted than other Fives.
This is bullshit you're taking out context only one line. Take the whole concept of type 5, it is completely unappliable to extraverts. If you find one line of one author that supports that, it's not a correct way of arguing eheh. If you want a more complete argument...I'll give it, but it'd be better if you realized your own foolishness in thinking this.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
If you do not mind me asking something which is a bit unrelated, but I am curious as to why you added some of these extra qualifiers for these people. Why are some simply labeled "another" while another exists as a "female classmate" and not simply as a "classmate"? What does the extra categorical qualifier of female add to the type sampling? Why differentiate between a "female classmate" and a gender-neutral "friend in my catholic youth association"? The most questionable one was the "jewish former friend of [your] father." Why did you feel it necessary to include the fact that this former friend was Jewish? Wouldn't have "a former friend of my father" sufficed?a school supervisor : 5-ENTp
another : 8-ISTj
a female classmate : cp6-ENTj
another : 8-ISTp
a friend in my catholic youth association : 2-ISTj
another : 9-INTp
another : 6-ENFj
another : 3-ENFp
my driving teacher : 1-ESTj
an aunt : 8-ENFp
a former coworker of my mother : 7-ENFj
a jewish former friend of my father : 5-ENTj
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I know extrotim Fives are either very infrequent or inexistent. But I'm trying to be objective. I never said I was right. Yes, I have a tendency to be obstinate (I-T-), and to appear as a know-it-all who always wants to be right. I recognise it.
But as atype, I really acknowledge the concept of correlations, not confusing them with overlappings zones (i.e. "100%" correlations), even very strong (95+%) correlations. But I'm taking what you said seriously, because I want to know the Truth.
you're right. sorry, I didn't mind. I edited this post.
I agree with some of your correlations. It's just type 5 that I disagree with.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
They might be transexuals; moreover, jewish people are more likely to steal your money and eat your children. Those qualifiers are then needed to protect you from eventual problems in the mentioned areas.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I didn't say that. I'm a 5 and I'm not clever with money. The fives' greed is not associated with money, but with initiative. That's why they are almost all introverts.
Machin...I was joking :wink:I didn't say that. I'm a 5 and I'm not clever with money. The fives' greed is not associated with money, but with initiative. That's why they are almost all introverts.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
And I've done a mistake and edited that post. I'll take full responsibility for that. Everyone can make mistakes.
Re: Laziness
The matter is finding something to be motivated about (see "the quest", and related topics)I think Laziness is probably correlated to being an introtim. I'm a pretty strong introtim and I'm lazy.
Reasoning in
Ultimately every person is responsible for dealing with their own laziness, of course.
As of late I am less and less lazy, and when I am, there is a clear sense of regression.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
hey...it doesn't really matter we're just discussing!
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Re: Laziness
an example of extrotim 9 : John Carter in ER.
Actually, 378 are mainly extroverts, except 8sp which nearly 60% are I-types. If you're rich, you're likely to be spending, rather than saving. but, mainly Eights are somewhat at ease to save energy to use it for controlling purposes. but for Three or a Seven it can be very difficult, because of their needs (i.e. to be admired and to be happy), they are likely to need to spend energy. An approximation is that E-types are 90-95% in Sevens, 85-90% in Threes, and 60-65% in Eights.
Actually then, 459 are mainly introverts ; I'm not sure if there is an exception for 4so and/or 9so, and it seems there are an I-type-rate approximation of 90-95% in Fives, and 80-85% in Nines, and 75-80% in Fours.
Energy Level is really correlated to Energy Spending Rate ; but only correlated.
It seems to be a 75-85% correlation.
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