Hey Hey Hey

[Gilly]

Hey everybody I'm new to the forum. The name's Voyce, because, quite frankly, mine's louder than most :wink: and I ain't fuckin' ashamed of it.

I've been around Meyers-Briggs stuff for a while (they use it at my work), and I know what my MBTI type is, but I'm bored of that jazz now and I want to know my Socionics type So what kind of info can I give yall to make it easy?

Oh, and I know there's a visual side, but I'm not too keen on putting my face up all over the web, so I'd rather yall just not ask :wink:

[Not A Communist Shill]

ESTp (I won't bother with the question mark)

[Joy]

ESFp?

What type of criticism do you have the hardest time defending yourself against? You know, the kind of thing where you don't really have any good way to respond?

Have you had any long term relationships? If so (and if you feel comfortable discussing it), what characteristics in your partners upset you the most, and what characteristics did you most appreciate? And, most importantly, how do you feel about the color blue?

[Gilly]

Hahaha...you expect me to be honest?

But seriously, I'd say that people questioning my skills in things I think I'm best at. I love writing, and I'd say that I probably felt worst in school when a teacher gave me a lower grade on a paper than I thought I earned. Sometimes I seriously felt like going up to my senior year English teacher and saying "For fuck's sake, this is an A paper, and I KNOW IT!" because, well, he was just plain old not as smart as I am And God forbid someone ever try to tell me I'm not a good dancer...

Ah, and the teacher thing reminds me, I HATE HATE HATE HATE it when people abuse authority. FUCK that.

In relationships, I hate girls that I can't talk straight to. I think a sig other should be the person you feel closest to in the world, and a relationship isn't worth shit if you can't be real with your partner. I hate gossipy, caddy girls, and even though I LOVE talking about other people and what I really think about them, I only do it when it's appropriate, and I NEVER intentionally talk shit about someone behind his/her back; I think that's the lowest thing a person can do. If I'm going to talk shit about someone, it's absolutely going to be to his/her face.

Orange is better

[aestrivex]

your answers seem SEE.

[Gilly]

So what means what? What do these things tell you?

[Joy]

Which of these comes more naturally to you (as far as seeing and using to your advantage)?

subjective relationships between objects: feelings of attraction and repulsion, like and dislike, need and antipathy; morals, subjective judgments

logical relationships between objects: systems of rules, hierarchies, comparisons of quantifiable properties, logical judgments

[Gilly]

I can't really say one more than the other...I probably use both.

[Gilly]

Ne>Se: An Se-valuing type would have talked to the teacher. And obviously the abuse of authority stuff points to unvalued Se.
Seems ethical.
Probably values Te.

My guess is probably IEE.

[Gilly]

Would someone PLEASE decode these 3-letter acronyms for me?

[Joy]

SEE = ESFp
IEE= ENFp

[Joy]

Have you seen any of the Rocky movies? He'd be an example of a male ESFp (though there are a few here who may disagree).

[Gilly]

Uhhh...I like Rocky I don't know how much I'm like him, but he's definitely a cool guy.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

I never said it was perfect. It's just how I saw it. Your personal experience does not make my assessment of his behaviors contradictory.

[aestrivex]

Ne>Se: An Se-valuing type would have talked to the teacher.

not necessarily.

And obviously the abuse of authority stuff points to unvalued Se.

why would it point against Se? Se is about establishing strong authority. from that it would be natural to have an Se type disliking abuse of authority.

[Gilly]

I think an Ne super-ego type would be more likely to mention such things as express distastes.

[Gilly]

Ne>Se: An Se-valuing type would have talked to the teacher.

not necessarily.

An Se-Ego type would surely be more likely to, IMO.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

And I'm saying that the fact that your individual case does not conform to what the theory would suggest does not entirely debunk the theory. So stop being so fucking petty. Christ.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[aestrivex]

Ne>Se: An Se-valuing type would have talked to the teacher.

not necessarily.

An Se-Ego type would surely be more likely to, IMO.

that is entirely conjectural and probably related to a number of other factors than type. it might be fair to say that an Se-type would have fewer qualms about confronting the teacher, but there may be other reasons for such abstinence of discussion.

[Gilly]

Here's a good example of how role functions manifest:

Sometimes I seriously felt like going up to my senior year English teacher and saying "For fuck's sake, this is an A paper, and I KNOW IT!"

-----------

If I'm going to talk shit about someone, it's absolutely going to be to his/her face.

Note that the first is talking about personal experience. He reports having avoided confrontation (despite the fact that it's not openly conflictual, talking to a teacher about this is still confronting them, and I would say that comfort in confronting an authority figure about such things would be a trait of strong Se types) in ACTUALITY, whereas he talks about how THEORETICALLY he would confront someone about "talking shit." The fact that he HASN'T confronted people in the past, but would like to THINK of himself as being confident in confronting people in theory, is a perfect example of Se role.

[Joy]

And I'm saying that the fact that your individual case does not conform to what the theory would suggest does not entirely debunk the theory. So stop being so fucking petty. Christ.

Actually, I believe the ISFj description stickied in Gamma mentions that ISFjs dislike abuse of power.

[Gilly]

And I'm saying that the fact that your individual case does not conform to what the theory would suggest does not entirely debunk the theory. So stop being so fucking petty. Christ.

The theory is yours, and I'm saying you're jumping to conclusions.

So you would attribute this kind of attitude to confrontation to something else? Learn the theory and THEN come talk shit, Diana.

I've already stated numerous times that I think Filatova's descriptions are bullshit and have no basis in the theory at all. Besides, that's applied to one specific type. I think Se super-ego types would be MUCH more likely to have past problems with abuse of authority than Se-ego types; an Se ego type would probably realize the breach in authority and try to do something about it, whereas an Se Super-Ego type would be more likely to just pout about it, like he seems to do.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

Let's try to get some more legitimate typing info in here.

What do you feel are your 5 biggest personal strengths and weaknesses?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Joy]

Good job showing the new person what it's like here, Gilligan.

[Exodus]

I think Se super-ego types would be MUCH more likely to have past problems with abuse of authority than Se-ego types; an Se ego type would probably realize the breach in authority and try to do something about it, whereas an Se Super-Ego type would be more likely to just pout about it, like he seems to do.

On a side note, I am another counter-example to this. I have, on numerous occasions, directly confronted teachers when I had a problem with something they did. As a kid I was probably too direct--it got me into all sorts of shit.

[Gilly]

You guys get intense about this stuff.

My five biggest strengths:
Burping, drinking beer, farting loudly, contorting myself and doing weird things with my body, and making people feel awkward

But as far as my personality goes...

Number one is probably creating the impression that I want to make with a person. I think I'm a great actor, and I have lots of different personas that I use for different occasions and interacting with different people, although obviously there are things that carry over.

Number two...writing and literature analysis. My teachers always praised me for my close reading skills and good overall writing quality, especially being able to word things well and hit on key concepts.

Three, I'd say my ability to resolve conflicts. Just the other night I broke up a fight between two drunk people at a party by explaining to them calmly and rationally that they would be arrested if they kept at it, and even though one of them thought I was trying to lecture him, he shut up anyways

Four, my ability to promote myself. I always try to take advantage of everything I can to make sure I get shit done. When I was a kid I had serious problems with motivation, and one of the things I've learned over time is that in order to get somewhere, you have to make all the little steps along the way, and make sure you have good footing to boot

Five, logic. I've always been really interested in formal logic, took a few philosophy classes in college (almost got a minor in it), and even did an independant study on it at my old high school. I think that learning to think straight is one of the most important abilities a person can have in life.

Weaknesses:

Number one has got to be my insecurity. Like I said before, I'm touchy to people questioning my skills, and sometimes I need reassurance, even in the things I KNOW deep down that I'm really good at.

Two is my temper. I've got a really long fuse most of the time, but if you catch me in the wrong mood on the wrong day, I'm liable to go off on a tirade. Just the other day I bitched a girl out for being catty in front of a lunch table full of her friends, and even though she deserved it, in retrospect, I went WAAAY overboard.

Three, I'd say my laziness. Like I said, I've had problems with motivation, and sometimes I make just plain old dumb decisions about not taking my work seriously enough; I blew off plenty of classes in both high school and college to go get stoned with my friends Even now I'll make up silly ass excuses sometimes to miss work, when really I just feel like taking a day off.

Four, my tendency towards excess. I've become famous among my friends for being extravagent with money: I've definitely ordered rounds of drinks for everyone in a bar on my tab before, and am liable to spend a raise on taking friends out to dinner just because I can And yes, it also relates to a few substances...but we won't get into that

Lastly, I'll go with my materialism. Like I said, I love to spend money, and despite the act that I like to think I'm a pretty...holistic guy, I definitely love the feeling of walking into a mall after getting paid and knowing that my AMX doesn't have a spending limit I love nice clothes, nice furniture...nice anything. I always buy high quality stuff, even if it means waiting a little while in order to be able to afford it.

[Gilly]

And I'm saying that the fact that your individual case does not conform to what the theory would suggest does not entirely debunk the theory. So stop being so fucking petty. Christ.

The theory is yours, and I'm saying you're jumping to conclusions.

So you would attribute this kind of attitude to confrontation to something else? Learn the theory and THEN come talk shit, Diana.

I've already stated numerous times that I think Filatova's descriptions are bullshit and have no basis in the theory at all. Besides, that's applied to one specific type. I think Se super-ego types would be MUCH more likely to have past problems with abuse of authority than Se-ego types; an Se ego type would probably realize the breach in authority and try to do something about it, whereas an Se Super-Ego type would be more likely to just pout about it, like he seems to do.

Dude takes himself WAAAAY too seriously.

[Joy]

Does this sound like a fair description of you?

extraverted sensing blocked with introverted ethics:
Types from the Gamma Quadra have a realistic, materialistic outlook on life, relationships, and society and tend to view life as a marketplace where forcefulness, positive thinking, social maneuvering, hustle and bustle, and loud humor get you where you need to go.

If you want to see other options, look here.

[aestrivex]

hmm... very interesting. your responses are somewhat contradictory, especially (as if you hadn't guessed) on the count about logic. but a lot of what you said does strongly point to SEE, especially materialism, "creating the impression," and machiavellianism, which are all keynote gamma concepts. laziness also seems slightly out of place but i think it could easily be overlooked.


what attracts you about logic? do you really see the development of particular methods of thought to be a useful goal? what do you think are the benefits and/or drawbacks of such methodical and accurate thought processes?

[Joy]

Dude takes himself WAAAAY too seriously.

There are a few different things at play here... first of all, he's bored and seeks stimulation by arguing with people. Secondly, he commonly bullshits to make it look like he knows what he's talking about (he's admitted to this). I'll stop there.

[Exodus]

You guys get intense about this stuff.

My five biggest strengths:
Burping, drinking beer, farting loudly, contorting myself and doing weird things with my body, and making people feel awkward

Weaknesses:

Number one has got to be my insecurity. Like I said before, I'm touchy to people questioning my skills, and sometimes I need reassurance, even in the things I KNOW deep down that I'm really good at.

Two is my temper. I've got a really long fuse most of the time, but if you catch me in the wrong mood on the wrong day, I'm liable to go off on a tirade. Just the other day I bitched a girl out for being catty in front of a lunch table full of her friends, and even though she deserved it, in retrospect, I went WAAAY overboard.

Three, I'd say my laziness. Like I said, I've had problems with motivation, and sometimes I make just plain old dumb decisions about not taking my work seriously enough; I blew off plenty of classes in both high school and college to go get stoned with my friends Even now I'll make up silly ass excuses sometimes to miss work, when really I just feel like taking a day off.

Four, my tendency towards excess. I've become famous among my friends for being extravagent with money: I've definitely ordered rounds of drinks for everyone in a bar on my tab before, and am liable to spend a raise on taking friends out to dinner just because I can And yes, it also relates to a few substances...but we won't get into that

Lastly, I'll go with my materialism. Like I said, I love to spend money, and despite the act that I like to think I'm a pretty...holistic guy, I definitely love the feeling of walking into a mall after getting paid and knowing that my AMX doesn't have a spending limit I love nice clothes, nice furniture...nice anything. I always buy high quality stuff, even if it means waiting a little while in order to be able to afford it.

I agree with niffweed: All of this (except the laziness) points to ESFp.

[Blaze]

off the top of my head! INFp?


and this is getting more stupid by the moment! u wanna join our cult??

LOL!!

[krieger]

He's too directed to be an ESFp. I say he's an ENFp wearing a choice persona.

ENFp's make a selection of desirable behaviours from a wide spectrum of possible courses of action, and act on a specific few of them. ESFp's skip right to the acting part, contending themselves with a smaller range of actions, in favor of a higher rate of succes per individual action. ESFp's, despite being highly active, always look a bit as if they have the 'blinds' on, like mounted horses in a trafic area. I don't see that in him.

[Exodus]

Lastly, I'll go with my materialism. Like I said, I love to spend money, and despite the act that I like to think I'm a pretty...holistic guy, I definitely love the feeling of walking into a mall after getting paid and knowing that my AMX doesn't have a spending limit I love nice clothes, nice furniture...nice anything. I always buy high quality stuff, even if it means waiting a little while in order to be able to afford it.

This could point to ENFp. Si dual-seeking, maybe.

[Gilly]

Logic just makes people think better; it's that simple. I don't see how that's contradictory to anything I've said.

I don't think I have a super-materialistic outlook on life like that description sounds; making lots and lots of money isn't SUPER important to me. I definitely don't think I'm materialistic with regards to relationships either; my choice friends and significant others doesn't have anything to do with money. At all. But when I have money, I like to spend it, and when I spend, I spend either on my friends or on quality stuff.

1. Alpha Quadra [top]

extraverted intuition blocked with introverted logic:
Types from the Alpha Quadra enjoy freely exchanging new ideas and theories as a form of intellectual leisure. They like to systematize knowledge and create new categories and speculative hypotheses without necessarily intending to see their theories tested or implemented (subdued extraverted logic).

I like this kind of stuff, but to be honest, I get bored of it after a while, and I feel like most of the time I see people engaging in this kind of behavior, it's pretty pretentious.

extraverted ethics blocked with introverted sensing:
This quadra enjoys carefree emotional expression and sensory delights and is able to derive never-ending pleasure from simple things — funny stories, exotic dishes, family picnics and group outings, and visual and performing arts.

YEAH! I love being outdoors and enjoying a little leisure time (I'm a "long walks on the beach" kind of guy ). I always try to get my friends to get outside and just enjoy relaxing in the woods or in the sun. I like playing in trees And I'm all about new and exotic food; I'll try anything once.

Subdued elements:
The Alpha Quadra is especially sensitive to and critical of mercantilistic views, ostentatious displays of wealth and status symbols, rude and aggressive behavior, moral criticism, and people who suggest they are wasting their time on unproductive things.

I don't particularly mind people showing off their wealth; whatever tickles your pickle, as far as I'm concerned. But I DEFINITELY hate moral criticism and people saying that my interests are impractical or useless.

Typical Alpha quadra group behavior:
Spontaneous, disorganized activities "for the fun of it." Light-hearted, non-serious atmosphere with very few "heavy" moments. Skipping from topic to topic without reaching any permanent conclusions.

Sounds good to me. I'm not into super-seriousness; I like to keep it light when I can. Drama bores and tires me (unless it's centered around me ).

2. Beta Quadra [top]

extraverted ethics blocked with introverted intuition:
This quadra encourages dramatic self-expression with elements of theatricism and melodrama. They enjoy finding artistic means to express romantic, abstract ideals and feelings.

Mmmm...I'm not big on melodrama. Nothing wrong with theatricism though But this stuff does DEFINITELY wear on my nerves after a while.

extraverted sensing blocked with introverted logic:
Types from the Beta Quadra are drawn to hierarchical structures that increase their personal power. They like to see convictions and beliefs materialized physically in the real world. They are often starkly blunt in their views and like "strong" humor.

Not gonna lie, I like being in a position of power. I love feeling like I'm in control of a social situation; I definitely like being the center of attention . I can identify with the second part as well; I'm all about coming up with crazy ideas, but seeing them through is WAY more fun There's nothing better, IMO, than coming up with a REALLY rediculous idea that nobody thinks you will follow through on, and doing it just to spite them and have a crazy story to tell.

Subdued elements:
The Beta Quadra is especially sensitive to and critical of earthiness, pronounced pragmatism, emotional indifference, and people who analyze their psychology and motives behind their backs.

I have no problem with earthiness, but I'm not big on super-pragmaticism. Not sure how I feel about people analyzing my motives...I guess it depends on what they actually are

Typical Beta quadra group behavior:
Lengthy, theatrical monologues. Loud, hearty laughter. Importance given to group rituals such as those related to food and drink. Displays of great generosity and inclusion, but with the demand of emotional involvement in group. Rowdiness. Generally theatrical atmosphere, but with periodic moments of "dead seriousness."

Monologues are fine by me: I LOVE telling stories about my experiences, and I love hearing other peoples' too. Generosity and inclusion are definitely important, as is emotional involvement, but not to the extent that it interferes with other things.

3. Gamma Quadra [top]

extraverted sensing blocked with introverted ethics:
Types from the Gamma Quadra have a realistic, materialistic outlook on life, relationships, and society and tend to view life as a marketplace where forcefulness, positive thinking, social maneuvering, hustle and bustle, and loud humor get you where you need to go.

Like I said, I don't like people who are super-materialistic, but I definitely have some of it in myself. However, it should NEVER come into play in relationships. Ever. My friends are my friends regardless of any kind of money issues; I'd rather pay for my friends' drinks, movie/concert tickets, food, etc than see them left behind. I'm big on forcefulness and positive thinking, and social maneuvering is always fun Hustle and bustle...mmm....in certain amounts, yeah, but I have to have somewhere to get away to with my friends where I can relax and let my hair down, so to speak. And loud humor is always welcome, as long as I'm involved

extraverted logic blocked with introverted intuition:
This quadra believes that ideas and fortuitous events should be turned into something profitable and marketable — something that does some kind of work for people. The Gamma Quadra values self-sacrifice in the name of serving society.

I love it when my ideas can be turned into a profit, but I'd say it's about 50/50 in terms of what my original intent is: sometimes I'll come up with a scheme specifically for making money, but I've definitely been known to throw out a crazy, impractical idea here and there.

Subdued elements:
The Gamma Quadra looks down on indulging in self-centered pleasures and in engaging in activities unrelated to society's needs.

Society's needs? Mmmm...not so much. It sucks when people become totally self-centered in their pursuit of happiness, and I'm all about the team spirit, but I'm not going to stop anyone from doing what makes them happy. Live and let live, I always say. If I can do something for society, great, tell me. But I'm not going to go out of my way to make life better for other people unless they're close to me or I know that it's going to be appreciated, or is for something I deem to be a worthy cause.

Typical Gamma quadra group behavior:
Trading jokes on materialistic topics (money, sex, winning and losing). Rowdiness and drivenness. Prefer socializing in smaller groups (about six people or less) and planning and carrying out productive activities together.

I'll joke about pretty much anything, and rowdiness is always fun As far as socializing goes, I prefer either a HUGE group of people where I can form my own small group (think Great Gatsby: "Big parties are so much more private" ), or a group of just my friends. Productive activities...eh...I'm more about having fun.

4. Delta Quadra [top]

extraverted logic blocked with introverted sensing:
Types from the Delta Quadra value pragmatism, hard work, beautifully functional items, and earthy humor and enjoy "productive" relationships where people do projects together. They are usually emotionally subdued and like to discuss topics seriously with the intention of implementing their conclusions.

Eh, I don't have any problems with earthiness, and I can use a good dose once in a while, but I hate all this stuff about relationships being about practicality and making money and such...sounds so impersonal and fake to me. I'm also not a big fan of this serious, practical talk nonsense...sounds really drab to me.

extraverted intuition blocked with introverted ethics:
Types of this quadra enjoy discussing people, internal motivation, and self-development. They believe in peaceful self-government without coercion and in the inherent potential of each human being for personal fulfillment.

This all sounds good to me. Like I said, I love analysing people and sharing my conclusions with my friends, not for any real reason, but just for the sake of analysing people and their social roles and relationships.

Subdued elements:
The Delta Quadra doesn't appreciate high ideals or abstractions that don't relate well to real life. They also don't like large institutions or power systems that do not take into consideration the interests of separate individuals.

I don't mind high ideals, but it's obviously useless to sit around and just talk about shit forever. And obviously it sucks when a system doesn't have any regard for individuals, but you can't always take time for every tiny little personal thing, or you get caught up in a bunch of time-wasting nonsense. I say it's all about balance.

Typical Delta quadra group behavior:
Discussion of interesting facts about people and places. Enjoy group outdoor activities. "Live and let live" attitude. Engage only in "productive" activities and discussions. Prefer smaller groups. Emotionally subdued; generally serious, but with periodic funny moments.

Sounds good to me generally, but I'm not a big fan of the seriousness. And all this nonsense about productivity seems pretentious and boring to me.