Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: Temperaments: IP vs EP

  1. #1
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Temperaments: IP vs EP

    Now how do these temperaments come across different? What similarities do they have?

    I'm looking for theoretical explanations and real world examples.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    M-H λ
    Posts
    2,608
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    in my opinion exxp is like being on stimulants while ixxp is like being on barbituates

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,577
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by science as magic
    in my opinion exxp is like being on stimulants while ixxp is like being on barbituates

  4. #4
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,685
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    EP: Cocaine
    IP: Heroine
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  5. #5
    machintruc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,252
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    most Ip's I know like zombies... especially INTp's...

  6. #6
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The above are all good.

    In a simplistic way --

    IP: "I don't give a shit"
    EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    IP: "I don't give a shit"
    EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"
    Very good. What would you say about EJ and IJ?

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,968
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    The above are all good.

    In a simplistic way --

    IP: "I don't give a "
    EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"
    I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them. Also, they may tend to let important things slip by, which makes them seem unmotivated to extraverted types.

    However, I don't think the motto of, say, an IEI, is "I don't give a..."; that would be incompatible with seeking deeper meaning in things.

    Another thing: I think people go in cycles; for example, for myself, there are times when I want to do more and "expand"; and there are other times when I want to simplify things and reduce commitments.

  9. #9
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Very good. What would you say about EJ and IJ?
    Hmmmm --

    EJ: "I have to do something about it"
    IJ: "If only people would leave things as they are"
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,968
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    IJ: "Things were fine as they were before they messed with it"
    That's a good one. Makes sense to me for Ij. I know someone whose motto could be this. I've always had a difficult time figuring out if he's INTj and ENTj. There are strong INTj themes, but whenever I describe him, people say the description sounds ETj. His adventuresome quality and a tendency to know everything seem ENTj. I'd suspect he's a hybrid, if that's possible.

  11. #11
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them. Also, they may tend to let important things slip by, which makes them seem unmotivated to extraverted types.

    However, I don't think the motto of, say, an IEI, is "I don't give a..."; that would be incompatible with seeking deeper meaning in things.
    It's not about caring about meaning; it's about how they come across in their behavior.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  12. #12
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,814
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think "I don't give a shit" and "I'm bored. Let's do something" might be the two most commonly said phrases in my house.


    Oooh love the "translate text" box thingee at the bottom.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them. Also, they may tend to let important things slip by, which makes them seem unmotivated to extraverted types.

    However, I don't think the motto of, say, an IEI, is "I don't give a..."; that would be incompatible with seeking deeper meaning in things.
    It's not about caring about meaning; it's about how they come across in their behavior.
    Exactly. It never crossed my mind that it would be interpreted as some kind of motto. As always I think that focusing on people's behaviours is the best typing approach. I tend to prefer externalist explanations of the types, which is somewhat contrary to Jung, who deliberately said that he chose to describe the types mainly from their own conscious, internalist perspective. Since Expat, being a rational type himself (like Jung), often focuses on people's behaviours too, maybe the difference between me and Jung is not so much a difference between a rational and an irrational approach as it is a difference between a and a approach (yeah, I know you are tired of hearing that, but I really think that it is true).

  14. #14
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,714
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    uh, i think IP is more like weed than heroin.

    EP is like acid or something. lol.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    EJ: "I have to do something about it"
    That is also very good. At least it is exactly what I would expect an ENTj to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    IJ: "If only people would leave things as they are"
    Maybe that is good too, but that is the only expression I am not sure about.

  16. #16
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just a thought I was tossing around:

    EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
    EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
    IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
    IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

    Preserve means only expend when necessary.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  17. #17
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    3,829
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i say, "im bored lets do something" all the time..............................................


    i havn't said "i dont give a shit" in ......almost a year i guess
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  18. #18
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    3,829
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Just a thought I was tossing around:

    EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
    EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
    IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
    IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

    Preserve means only expend when necessary.


    lol
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  19. #19
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    why?

    If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'd still like to hear other's input on this though. Particularly the introverts.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  20. #20
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    3,829
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  21. #21
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Expending energy and being proactive are two different things though.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    M-H λ
    Posts
    2,608
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    IP: "I don't give a shit"
    EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    EJ: "I have to do something about it"
    IJ: "If only people would leave things as they are"
    i'm not sure you can describe p in statements like this. it seems too discrete.

    ej/ij seems more like expedience vs. duty? or epicureanism vs. stoicism (but that is more of an esxj/inxj divide)

  23. #23
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    3,829
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    all ive got to say is...


    i dont give a shit




    LOL i actually didn't mean that to be funny....i had something to say and realized it wasn't worth it cuz socionics is making me die
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  24. #24
    Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,475
    Mentioned
    332 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    The above are all good.

    In a simplistic way --

    IP: "I don't give a "
    EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"
    I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them.
    That sounds Ij, especially the italicized part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Just a thought I was tossing around:

    EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
    EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
    IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
    IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

    Preserve means only expend when necessary.
    I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.

  25. #25
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.
    Not really - irrationals have goals, sometimes, too.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  26. #26
    Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,475
    Mentioned
    332 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.
    Not really - irrationals have goals, sometimes, too.
    Yes, but they are less likely to naturally think about their behavior in terms of goals.

  27. #27
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.
    Not really - irrationals have goals, sometimes, too.
    Yes, but they are less likely to naturally think about their behavior in terms of goals.
    ime....

    EP - see what they're good at, see if the environment rewards what they're good at, doing it if yes, change environment if not
    IP - change the environment to suit what they're good at
    EJ - choose which skills to take up in order to serve the environment
    IJ - choose the environment where to develop the skills
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  28. #28
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It seems that irrational types aren't as agreeable about this. I'd like to hear from the irrational types about how they'd distinguish the temperaments. How's this:

    irrational: doing something
    rational: getting something done

    Or what about:

    irrational: being (as in being in a relaxed state, being active)
    rational: doing (as in getting something accomplished)

    Obviously all types do all of these, the suggested definitions are for comparison only.

  29. #29
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,814
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with yours and expat's. I don't change the environment to make it reward what I'm good at - I only change the environment if I'm bored. Which happens pretty frequently, though. I change it by going out. LOL. I have no idea how typical I am of Ep types, and I have no idea if ENFps are similar to ESTps in that way though.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  30. #30
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I agree with yours and expat's. I don't change the environment to make it reward what I'm good at - I only change the environment if I'm bored. Which happens pretty frequently, though. I change it by going out. LOL. I have no idea how typical I am of Ep types, and I have no idea if ENFps are similar to ESTps in that way though.
    Since we were speaking about skills...I would like to live a life where I only could change the environment when I'm bored, but unfortunately I have to interact
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  31. #31
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Might this changing of the environment be related to Se?

  32. #32
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Might this changing of the environment be related to Se?
    i think so, yes
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  33. #33
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,625
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Just a thought I was tossing around:

    EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
    EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
    IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
    IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

    Preserve means only expend when necessary.
    I think Irrationals didn't agree with this because it puts us in a bad light. Makes us appear to have no purpose.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

  34. #34
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The idea that irrationals don't have goals is probably based on a too strict definition of goal. A rational's definition of it. Irrationals have more "abstract" or "less exact" goals. E.g. irrational might have a goal to "be successful" but the exacts are left for future to reveal. They would do things which they think generally move them towards being successful e.g. accumulating knowledge of subjects which they find interesting and useful. Rational would define the exacts of that e.g. "I want to be in middle-management in this and that business by the end of year xxxx". And rational would concentrate their efforts and learning processes on fulfilling this exact goal. This is a bit extreme example but the idea hopefully is there. I would think there are type and quadra differences involved.

  35. #35
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE
    Posts
    24,507
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Good point. Right now I don't know how to reword it to convey that idea though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •