Temperaments: IP vs EP

[XoX]

Now how do these temperaments come across different? What similarities do they have?

I'm looking for theoretical explanations and real world examples.

[science as magic]

in my opinion exxp is like being on stimulants while ixxp is like being on barbituates

[aestrivex]

in my opinion exxp is like being on stimulants while ixxp is like being on barbituates

[Gilly]

EP: Cocaine
IP: Heroine

[machintruc]

most Ip's I know like zombies... especially INTp's...

[Expat]

The above are all good.

In a simplistic way --

IP: "I don't give a shit"
EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"

[Phaedrus]

IP: "I don't give a shit"
EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"

Very good. What would you say about EJ and IJ?

[Jonathan]

The above are all good.

In a simplistic way --

IP: "I don't give a "
EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"

I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them. Also, they may tend to let important things slip by, which makes them seem unmotivated to extraverted types.

However, I don't think the motto of, say, an IEI, is "I don't give a..."; that would be incompatible with seeking deeper meaning in things.

Another thing: I think people go in cycles; for example, for myself, there are times when I want to do more and "expand"; and there are other times when I want to simplify things and reduce commitments.

[Expat]

Very good. What would you say about EJ and IJ?

Hmmmm --

EJ: "I have to do something about it"
IJ: "If only people would leave things as they are"

[Jonathan]

IJ: "Things were fine as they were before they messed with it"

That's a good one. Makes sense to me for Ij. I know someone whose motto could be this. I've always had a difficult time figuring out if he's INTj and ENTj. There are strong INTj themes, but whenever I describe him, people say the description sounds ETj. His adventuresome quality and a tendency to know everything seem ENTj. I'd suspect he's a hybrid, if that's possible.

[Expat]

I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them. Also, they may tend to let important things slip by, which makes them seem unmotivated to extraverted types.

However, I don't think the motto of, say, an IEI, is "I don't give a..."; that would be incompatible with seeking deeper meaning in things.

It's not about caring about meaning; it's about how they come across in their behavior.

[Slacker]

I think "I don't give a shit" and "I'm bored. Let's do something" might be the two most commonly said phrases in my house.


Oooh love the "translate text" box thingee at the bottom.

[Phaedrus]

I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them. Also, they may tend to let important things slip by, which makes them seem unmotivated to extraverted types.

However, I don't think the motto of, say, an IEI, is "I don't give a..."; that would be incompatible with seeking deeper meaning in things.

It's not about caring about meaning; it's about how they come across in their behavior.

Exactly. It never crossed my mind that it would be interpreted as some kind of motto. As always I think that focusing on people's behaviours is the best typing approach. I tend to prefer externalist explanations of the types, which is somewhat contrary to Jung, who deliberately said that he chose to describe the types mainly from their own conscious, internalist perspective. Since Expat, being a rational type himself (like Jung), often focuses on people's behaviours too, maybe the difference between me and Jung is not so much a difference between a rational and an irrational approach as it is a difference between a and a approach (yeah, I know you are tired of hearing that, but I really think that it is true).

[Blaze]

uh, i think IP is more like weed than heroin.

EP is like acid or something. lol.

[Phaedrus]

EJ: "I have to do something about it"

That is also very good. At least it is exactly what I would expect an ENTj to say.

IJ: "If only people would leave things as they are"

Maybe that is good too, but that is the only expression I am not sure about.

[Joy]

Just a thought I was tossing around:

EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

Preserve means only expend when necessary.

[Khamelion]

i say, "im bored lets do something" all the time..............................................


i havn't said "i dont give a shit" in ......almost a year i guess

[Khamelion]

Just a thought I was tossing around:

EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

Preserve means only expend when necessary.

lol

[Joy]

why?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'd still like to hear other's input on this though. Particularly the introverts.

[Khamelion]

lol

[Joy]

Expending energy and being proactive are two different things though.

[science as magic]

IP: "I don't give a shit"
EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"

EJ: "I have to do something about it"
IJ: "If only people would leave things as they are"

i'm not sure you can describe p in statements like this. it seems too discrete.

ej/ij seems more like expedience vs. duty? or epicureanism vs. stoicism (but that is more of an esxj/inxj divide)

[Khamelion]

all ive got to say is...


i dont give a shit




LOL i actually didn't mean that to be funny....i had something to say and realized it wasn't worth it cuz socionics is making me die

[Exodus]

The above are all good.

In a simplistic way --

IP: "I don't give a "
EP: "I'm bored, let's do something!"

I don't know...I can't agree. I think Ip types often find themselves flustered when there's too much activity, so they often try to find a way to do less, so as to focus on what's more important to them.

That sounds Ij, especially the italicized part.

Just a thought I was tossing around:

EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

Preserve means only expend when necessary.

I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.

[FDG]

I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.

Not really - irrationals have goals, sometimes, too.

[Exodus]

I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.

Not really - irrationals have goals, sometimes, too.

Yes, but they are less likely to naturally think about their behavior in terms of goals.

[FDG]

I like this. It captures the rationality/irrationality distinction quite well.

Not really - irrationals have goals, sometimes, too.

Yes, but they are less likely to naturally think about their behavior in terms of goals.

ime....

EP - see what they're good at, see if the environment rewards what they're good at, doing it if yes, change environment if not
IP - change the environment to suit what they're good at
EJ - choose which skills to take up in order to serve the environment
IJ - choose the environment where to develop the skills

[Joy]

It seems that irrational types aren't as agreeable about this. I'd like to hear from the irrational types about how they'd distinguish the temperaments. How's this:

irrational: doing something
rational: getting something done

Or what about:

irrational: being (as in being in a relaxed state, being active)
rational: doing (as in getting something accomplished)

Obviously all types do all of these, the suggested definitions are for comparison only.

[Slacker]

I agree with yours and expat's. I don't change the environment to make it reward what I'm good at - I only change the environment if I'm bored. Which happens pretty frequently, though. I change it by going out. LOL. I have no idea how typical I am of Ep types, and I have no idea if ENFps are similar to ESTps in that way though.

[FDG]

I agree with yours and expat's. I don't change the environment to make it reward what I'm good at - I only change the environment if I'm bored. Which happens pretty frequently, though. I change it by going out. LOL. I have no idea how typical I am of Ep types, and I have no idea if ENFps are similar to ESTps in that way though.

Since we were speaking about skills...I would like to live a life where I only could change the environment when I'm bored, but unfortunately I have to interact

[Joy]

Might this changing of the environment be related to Se?

[FDG]

Might this changing of the environment be related to Se?

i think so, yes

[meatburger]

Just a thought I was tossing around:

EP: expend energy for the sake of expending energy
EJ: expend energy for the sake of accomplishing goals
IP: preserve energy for the sake of preserving energy
IJ: preserve energy for the sake of accomplishing goals

Preserve means only expend when necessary.

I think Irrationals didn't agree with this because it puts us in a bad light. Makes us appear to have no purpose.

[XoX]

The idea that irrationals don't have goals is probably based on a too strict definition of goal. A rational's definition of it. Irrationals have more "abstract" or "less exact" goals. E.g. irrational might have a goal to "be successful" but the exacts are left for future to reveal. They would do things which they think generally move them towards being successful e.g. accumulating knowledge of subjects which they find interesting and useful. Rational would define the exacts of that e.g. "I want to be in middle-management in this and that business by the end of year xxxx". And rational would concentrate their efforts and learning processes on fulfilling this exact goal. This is a bit extreme example but the idea hopefully is there. I would think there are type and quadra differences involved.

[Joy]

Good point. Right now I don't know how to reword it to convey that idea though.