Si, caregiving, ramblings

[Slacker]

When we were visiting my inlaws, we spent most of the time with my mother in law (ESFj), and father in law (ISFp). My husband is ISTp, and I think my daughter is ENFp but she's just a kid so who knows for sure. Anyway, I was surrounded by Si.

The weird thing is that whenever I'm around all three of them, they're always taking care of me. Everyone takes care of me. It's like there's this focus on me. They take care of my daughter too now, but even before she was born when the four of us were together people were always focused on my comfort. Was I thirsty, was I sitting in a draft, would I like something, etc. When my husband does this, it feels more comfortable, but my in-laws are more demonstrative (Fe I suppose) and I feel like I have some obligation to reciprocate or something. So my instinct is to take care of their comfort too, but of course they're perfectly good at taking care of their own needs in that area, and I am awkward when I try to, so that never worked. Now that I've read about Socionics, I think to myself "what they need is Ne" but I honestly have no idea how one goes about giving people Ne. So I feel kind of guilty that everyone is taking care of me and I'm getting all the attention.

So is this normal if you're an Ne surrounded by Si types? I don't know how to respond to having people take care of me all the time. And it sometimes feels like they're treating me like a child, like I can't take care of myself. Which I can't, but like I said it's different with my husband because it feels more like he's taking care of his own needs and either picks mine up here and there or just takes me along for the ride and my needs get taken care of without much effort on his part. But my inlaws really seem to work at it and I feel like I should be doing something for them too.

And to the Si-dominant people out there, if you've gotten this far, what does Ne feel like to you?

[stefana]

When we were visiting my inlaws, we spent most of the time with my mother in law (ESFj), and father in law (ISFp). My husband is ISTp, and I think my daughter is ENFp but she's just a kid so who knows for sure. Anyway, I was surrounded by Si.

The weird thing is that whenever I'm around all three of them, they're always taking care of me. Everyone takes care of me. It's like there's this focus on me. They take care of my daughter too now, but even before she was born when the four of us were together people were always focused on my comfort. Was I thirsty, was I sitting in a draft, would I like something, etc. When my husband does this, it feels more comfortable, but my in-laws are more demonstrative (Fe I suppose) and I feel like I have some obligation to reciprocate or something. So my instinct is to take care of their comfort too, but of course they're perfectly good at taking care of their own needs in that area, and I am awkward when I try to, so that never worked. Now that I've read about Socionics, I think to myself "what they need is Ne" but I honestly have no idea how one goes about giving people Ne. So I feel kind of guilty that everyone is taking care of me and I'm getting all the attention.

So is this normal if you're an Ne surrounded by Si types?

......

i also experience that in the company of ISFps and ESFjs but not among ISTps and ESTjs. i think it has something to do with the mix of and , as in the how they go about doing the caretaking.

[aestrivex]

yeah, my ESFj grandmother is always doing this. it's probably the single factor that most drives me insane about her. she will incessantly barge in on whatever i happen to be doing (nothing ever very important) and ask if i want about 20 different things before i start yelling at her, for which i am then unfailingly reprimanded.

knowing that i almost never accept her offers, sometimes she simply provides me with a plate of food without saying anything. predictably, this results in arguments ("what the hell are you giving me this for? i just ate an hour ago; i'm not hungry") and, often, wasted food.

another thing; she's moderately rich and has no financial concerns for the rest of her life. in her mind, this is a mandate to spend as much money as possible. for example, i was recently forced to spend a night at her house due to circumstances completely beyond my control, and without exaggeration, she had purchased an extraordinary excess of foods that she thinks i like. she had bought 3 mangoes (at $1.50 apiece), 3 loaves of bread, several different kinds of cake so that i might choose from them, two large containers of yogurt, and all sorts of other crap that i couldn't possibly eat. i took home what i could, but much of what she bought simply went to waste. i just can't understand why she would do that.

she tries without fail to anticipate what i want, and guesses wrong about 90% of the time.[/incessant conflictor-related rant]

[Blaze]

sounds like an o.d. on Si and Fe to me what with an esfj AND an isfp!! way too much dose for you, hahaha

i kinda feel like that around enfj's - too much Fe driven by Ni, whoa. it's like overload.

how to give them some Ne. i think this is actually a great question. how is this done? i guess you'd try to get a lot of interesting conversation going, focusing on theories, concepts, etc that can be applied to many different things. Ne humor gets people going esp esfj's and isfp's. i like it when enfp's use Ne to talk about universal experiences that people have with other people. or when they explain how people feel and how relationships work.

not that you would use this with your in laws, but at work once, and enfp led a rowdy and baudy conversation about sex that opened all of us up (we were all women). we were very well connected as a group after that.

kinda limited, but HTH.

[Expat]

At least with ESFjs, what they seem to welcome most is indeed humor based on the unexpected and odd (but still funny).

[UDP]

yeah, my ESFj grandmother is always doing this. it's probably the single factor that most drives me insane about her. she will incessantly barge in on whatever i happen to be doing (nothing ever very important) and ask if i want about 20 different things before i start yelling at her, for which i am then unfailingly reprimanded.

knowing that i almost never accept her offers, sometimes she simply provides me with a plate of food without saying anything. predictably, this results in arguments ("what the hell are you giving me this for? i just ate an hour ago; i'm not hungry") and, often, wasted food.

Hmm, you really have no clue about ESEs, do you.
I'm sure you will absolutely love it when you find the right ESFp.
Happy hunting.

At least with ESFjs, what they seem to welcome most is indeed humor based on the unexpected and odd (but still funny).

[Logos]

At least with ESFjs, what they seem to welcome most is indeed humor based on the unexpected and odd (but still funny).

My thoughts exactly.

[anndelise]

At least with ESFjs, what they seem to welcome most is indeed humor based on the unexpected and odd (but still funny).

like it when enfp's use Ne to talk about universal experiences that people have with other people. or when they explain how people feel and how relationships work.

I think both of these are excellent suggestions for both ESFj and ISFp.

The ESFjs I know, love talking about people, experiences, and psychology/personality. One thing to remember is that they don't do this that often, so they may be a bit....limited...on how deep they're willing to go. They seem to know a number of "code" words/phrases, but not necessarily go deeper than that. Which is what you'd be good at SlackerMom. You have the know how to naturally take the conversation deeper (or broader) than they'd normally go, and thus expand their experience in these kinds of thinkings.

The ISFps I know, love the odd sense of humour and making unexpected connections. They'll create and/or join in the creation of a making a story or scenario that involves some really outrageous connections. Though, I suppose the extent of the outrageousness might depend upon the person.

[Ms. Kensington]

At least with ESFjs, what they seem to welcome most is indeed humor based on the unexpected and odd (but still funny).

like it when enfp's use Ne to talk about universal experiences that people have with other people. or when they explain how people feel and how relationships work.

I think both of these are excellent suggestions for both ESFj and ISFp.

The ESFjs I know, love talking about people, experiences, and psychology/personality. One thing to remember is that they don't do this that often, so they may be a bit....limited...on how deep they're willing to go. They seem to know a number of "code" words/phrases, but not necessarily go deeper than that. Which is what you'd be good at SlackerMom. You have the know how to naturally take the conversation deeper (or broader) than they'd normally go, and thus expand their experience in these kinds of thinkings.

The ISFps I know, love the odd sense of humour and making unexpected connections. They'll create and/or join in the creation of a making a story or scenario that involves some really outrageous connections. Though, I suppose the extent of the outrageousness might depend upon the person.

I don't know much about ESFjs but there is one at work that does seem to be delighted when I make "funny" "weird" comments, or sort of make an unexpected comment. I always thought she took well to me just because I seemed to respond so well to her.. smiling and laughing and generally looking like i wanted to be there.

As to how to give Ne, i know an ISFp who always says im so funny and she has told me several times, "if i didn't have you I wouldn't be at [place where she can relax, or experience new things]". She has said from time to time, that sometimes she needs to learn about new things and experiences and I think an Ne person points out such opportunities to the Si person. I think Rick said something similar on his site.

In general i thought it was telling that ann said that esfjs might not be willing to go deeper with certain things even if they like them, and in general I have also had thoughts similar to what Niffweed was expressing. So I thought it was interesting that Slacker Mom, an ENFp, would be know better how to soothe an ESFj into going deeper. Because it's true that INTjs would want to "cut the crap" or just be oblivious as to how to do this.

[Raver]

At least with ESFjs, what they seem to welcome most is indeed humor based on the unexpected and odd (but still funny).

My satirical and strange humour is a bane to my ESE mother. I like to joke in a constant basis and she finds it rather ridiculous, even though she does appear to like vulgar humour. There are people in the other hand, that find every joke I say funny, while most find a few of them funny. This has to do with humour being highly arbitrary, but I think type does have an impact, but I'm not sure how much of an effect it has or if there are other factors involved. There are some people in the other hand that appear to universally hilarious.

[Typeless Wonder]

i also experience that in the company of ISFps and ESFjs but not among ISTps and ESTjs. i think it has something to do with the mix of Introverted Sensing and Extraverted Feeling, as in the how they go about doing the caretaking.

I disagree somewhat. I have an ESTJ friend who acts very accomodating toward his friends and seems to relish inviting people over for dinner and always offers financial and material support to friends in need. He's probably the most giving person I know. He's not very tactful at dealing with emotional problems, but when it comes to physical and economic comfort he's almost always willing to help you unless he senses that you're trying to take advantage of him (he's very brutal to people who stab him in the back.) And he definately has very developed extroverted thinking. He's always learning new programming languages for the fun of it and then getting on the internet and teaching other people how to do programming. It bores me to tears how he always talks about the people he helps on the internet, but helping people is definately something he is about.

[Typeless Wonder]

Now that I've read about Socionics, I think to myself "what they need is Ne" but I honestly have no idea how one goes about giving people Ne. So I feel kind of guilty that everyone is taking care of me and I'm getting all the attention.

Hey Slacker Mom, just remember that extroverted SJs derive pleasure and a sense of usefulness from helping others, that they often don't really expect a lot of reciprocation from you except for kind comments and your friendship. They know that you're probably a bit out there in outer space and might like to revel is some Earthy pleasures for awhile and so they're more than happy to help. As far as your Ne, just talk about what you know with them. SJs in particular seem to like listening to deep people, you'll be surprised.

[stefana]

i also experience that in the company of ISFps and ESFjs but not among ISTps and ESTjs. i think it has something to do with the mix of Introverted Sensing and Extraverted Feeling, as in the how they go about doing the caretaking.

I disagree somewhat. I have an ESTJ friend who acts very accomodating toward his friends and seems to relish inviting people over for dinner and always offers financial and material support to friends in need. He's probably the most giving person I know. He's not very tactful at dealing with emotional problems, but when it comes to physical and economic comfort he's almost always willing to help you unless he senses that you're trying to take advantage of him (he's very brutal to people who stab him in the back.) And he definately has very developed extroverted thinking. He's always learning new programming languages for the fun of it and then getting on the internet and teaching other people how to do programming. It bores me to tears how he always talks about the people he helps on the internet, but helping people is definately something he is about.

What was it that you disagreed with in my post?

I was referring to experiencing a sense of obligation and this feeling of awkwardness from receiving caretaking from ISFps and ESFjs, similar to what Slacker Mom experienced. And I was letting her know that I don't get that feeling among ISTps and ESTjs.

[Slacker]

I understood Stefana It's just like that - I get caretaking from ESTjs and ISTps, and I don't feel this sense of guilt or need to reciprocate. But when I get the caretaking from ISFps and ESFjs I feel like I need to do something. They all provide that caretaking, but I react to it a little bit differently.

[Khamelion]

yeah, my ESFj grandmother is always doing this. it's probably the single factor that most drives me insane about her. she will incessantly barge in on whatever i happen to be doing (nothing ever very important) and ask if i want about 20 different things before i start yelling at her, for which i am then unfailingly reprimanded.

knowing that i almost never accept her offers, sometimes she simply provides me with a plate of food without saying anything. predictably, this results in arguments ("what the hell are you giving me this for? i just ate an hour ago; i'm not hungry") and, often, wasted food.

another thing; she's moderately rich and has no financial concerns for the rest of her life. in her mind, this is a mandate to spend as much money as possible. for example, i was recently forced to spend a night at her house due to circumstances completely beyond my control, and without exaggeration, she had purchased an extraordinary excess of foods that she thinks i like. she had bought 3 mangoes (at $1.50 apiece), 3 loaves of bread, several different kinds of cake so that i might choose from them, two large containers of yogurt, and all sorts of other crap that i couldn't possibly eat. i took home what i could, but much of what she bought simply went to waste. i just can't understand why she would do that.

she tries without fail to anticipate what i want, and guesses wrong about 90% of the time.[/incessant conflictor-related rant]

I can relate to the annoyed feeling....but I hardly get mad at them...I'm focused on intentions all the time....but wasted food annoys me, barging in annoys me, etc...but I know they are just trying to care for me so I forgive them, and tell them in the nicest way possible what I like, and how much they should buy if they INSIST on buying things for me.

[Blaze]

I understood Stefana It's just like that - I get caretaking from ESTjs and ISTps, and I don't feel this sense of guilt or need to reciprocate. But when I get the caretaking from ISFps and ESFjs I feel like I need to do something. They all provide that caretaking, but I react to it a little bit differently.

i'm telling you it's simply too high a dose of caretaking! with all the Fe it simply feels like overload.

i dont' have experiences with istp's but i do with estj's....their Si is OK....but not a therapeutic dose. i need MORE! hahaha

[mikemex]

Both ISFp and ESFj want attention. They want people to like them, and they try to please the way the know best.

The problem is that ISTp and ESTj do not need/expect people to smile at them for what they do or anything, while ISFp and ESFj do. That's the difference.

ENFp get a lot of attention from such types because their duals are a bit dry and cold. I've seen my INTj father to be blunt to his ESFj friend many times. I, on the contrary, can be as "interesting" as him, but also quite polite.

[lkdhf qkb]

When we were visiting my inlaws, we spent most of the time with my mother in law (ESFj), and father in law (ISFp). My husband is ISTp, and I think my daughter is ENFp but she's just a kid so who knows for sure. Anyway, I was surrounded by Si.

The weird thing is that whenever I'm around all three of them, they're always taking care of me. Everyone takes care of me. It's like there's this focus on me. They take care of my daughter too now, but even before she was born when the four of us were together people were always focused on my comfort. Was I thirsty, was I sitting in a draft, would I like something, etc. When my husband does this, it feels more comfortable, but my in-laws are more demonstrative (Fe I suppose) and I feel like I have some obligation to reciprocate or something. So I feel kind of guilty that everyone is taking care of me and I'm getting all the attention.

So is this normal if you're an Ne surrounded by Si types?

Happened to me too.

I don't know how to respond to having people take care of me all the time. And it sometimes feels like they're treating me like a child, like I can't take care of myself. Which I can't, but like I said it's different with my husband because it feels more like he's taking care of his own needs and either picks mine up here and there or just takes me along for the ride and my needs get taken care of without much effort on his part.

Yes, it can feel overbearing when Si egos you're not close with try to do their Si-thing.

ST’s tend to really over compensate for weak Fi with either money or acts of service in come way. Almost all the delta ST’s that I know tend to give money the most to me for gifts in some way.

This reminds me three weeks ago I was at the restaurant with ILE, SEI(friends) and SLI(aquaintance), and I ask what they were going to order (dessert? drinks?), because I don't have much money. SLI says to me: "Let me take you out, I know what it's like to just quit a lousy job with low pay and living again like a student". It made me feel uncomfortable because I don't want people trying to get close to me by talking to me like I'm not in control of my life or a helpless looser.

And my SLI friends always ask me these questions "did you finish this task?", "when do you think you'll learn this skill?", "you should take more care of yourself", "why don't you let people help you?" like I'm a 5 year old kid and they're my guardians and not my friends. It's not even like they've figured life out more than I do. Sometimes it feels as if they just want to use me to feel useful and display their practicality on someone they've decided is a "mess". Nah, thank you, I'll do things on my own. I'm stubborn like that.(Same way Billy is with Fi, btw, I can respect his stubbornness in wanting to decide who to include in his life and when/how).

Is it common for Ne egos to refuse "help" from "caretakers"?

[MissDucki]

Happened to me too.



Yes, it can feel overbearing when Si egos you're not close with try to do their Si-thing.



This reminds me three weeks ago I was at the restaurant with ILE, SEI(friends) and SLI(aquaintance), and I ask what they were going to order (dessert? drinks?), because I don't have much money. SLI says to me: "Let me take you out, I know what it's like to just quit a lousy job with low pay and living again like a student". It made me feel uncomfortable because I don't want people trying to get close to me by talking to me like I'm not in control of my life or a helpless looser.

And my SLI friends always ask me these questions "did you finish this task?", "when do you think you'll learn this skill?", "you should take more care of yourself", "why don't you let people help you?" like I'm a 5 year old kid and they're my guardians and not my friends. It's not even like they've figured life out more than I do. Sometimes it feels as if they just want to use me to feel useful and display their practicality on someone they've decided is a "mess". Nah, thank you, I'll do things on my own. I'm stubborn like that.(Same way Billy is with Fi, btw, I can respect his stubbornness in wanting to decide who to include in his life and when/how).

Is it common for Ne egos to refuse "help" from "caretakers"?

It depends. Hell I reject Si care-giving from other Si-doms at times lol. I think its normal to reject it. I think Si types can go overboard in wanting to help to both provide care and feel needed. I have done this at times with Ne friends and peoples that rejected me more that I both like and have a bond with. Delta and Alpha care-giving is a little bit different though and everyone is different. So someone may like one caregiver style and the other the may not. Though I like to thin we all get a bit too sick of the style sometimes lol. While I am very happy being around Ne, it tires me out and I just want to go chill out in a room and not just keep arguing and jumping from thing to thing. People can love each other and get sick of each other at times too lol

[EUDAEMONIUM]

I have Si PoLr so I find this very annoying lol. My mom is an SEI so I think its not so bad since I'm kind of used to it. But some things that I find annoy me are some of the things that have been mentioned above.

examples:

It's winter, snowing out, freezing. I didn't own a winter coat for years, I never felt the need to buy one even though I live in Ohio. Someone at my job at the time says every time I walk in on these days "Where's your coat?" (actually mad and talking to me like a parent.)
I laugh it off but internally there's a voice saying "You're not my Mom OK? don't tell me what to do."


If I'm on a diet they will insist that I am being unhealthy and I should eat, which is really fun to hear when you're on a diet and you want to give up anyway. And offices always have food brought in by others usually Si types lol.


Any lengthy conversation of Si topics like a favorite chip flavor, tea, coffee creamer, blanket, soap brand, etc, will make me question where TF I am and feel the need to escape.

[Aquamarine]

I don't feel as if I go out of my way to do any caretaking. I've had it thrown at me from others before and I usually refuse it. Asking stuff like "Have you ate?" "Do you need this" "Are you comfortable" I just don't go around doing that stuff. The most I've ever done anything like that and it was in a relationship. I don't do those things around people to the point I wondered if I cared about any of them.

I think my caretaking is more subtle. I feel like when somebody asks for my help that's when I'll do more but if they don't ask then I won't really do anything. Like I'll make myself available incase someone needs something but I won't actively volunteer myself and continuously try to push caretaking on them.

A simple example. My ex would stay up late at nights even when he was tired and he'd get headaches. I would tell him that he shouldn't really do that. Or when he used to drink this juice that would make him feel horrible afterwards. I would jokingly say "Why do you keep drinking that if it makes you feel bad". That's just what I do. It's way more subtle.

[Poptart]

@fatgurl Same lol. I think SEIs generally want to avoid imposing on people and invading their personal space. I’m happy to help if someone asks or if they’re like CLEARLY struggling. When I have people coming over, I will go out of my way to buy drinks and snacks, wash towels, blankets, etc. I try to set things out ahead of time so that people know it’s there and can take what they want without me having to offer lol.