My 4 year old

[Blaze]

we think is an enfp. she is very oppositional. always has to have her way. now that her dad is gone, when she is home with me, it is me, entp, her sister, esfj, and her enfp. so the relations for her are comparative and beneficiary.

ok so she gets upset today and me and my esfj daughter are exasperated. all of a sudden it dawns on me: she needs a dose of Si and Te. so i figure my esfj daughter is going to think of a better si thing to do, so i say to her, you do si, i'll do te. she says what's that, i say si is when you try to make people more comfortable and relaxed. so she goes and gets the 4 year old a stuffed animal. then i tell the 4 year old some facts about her situation. (Te not really a strength for me, but I can at least figure it out)

she calmed right down. amazing!

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Rocky]

so i say to her, you do si, i'll do te.

... wait, what?

[Khamelion]

awesome

[Republicus]

Typing a 4 year old? I'm not sure you could even type a 12 year old reliably, much less a 4 year old. According to Jung function differentiation won’t really occur until puberty, and that’s only their primary. Even if you see a preference for a function now there is no guarantee it isn’t temporary. I would say at best you could narrow it down to E/I and which function pair they were favoring, Ne/Se, Ti/Fi, Fe/Te, Si,Ni. Anything other than that is wishful thinking.

[discojoe]

Pfft, what would really help her is a stronger PoLR. Have her play sudoku.

Come to think of it, the ENFps I've known have all refused to play chess with me, and I could tell that the prospect gave them a bit of anxiety. Take it with a grain of salt, though.

Typing a 4 year old? I'm not sure you could even type a 12 year old reliably, much less a 4 year old. According to Jung function differentiation won’t really occur until puberty, and that’s only their primary. Even if you see a preference for a function now there is no guarantee it isn’t temporary. I would say at best you could narrow it down to E/I and which function pair they were favoring, Ne/Se, Ti/Fi, Fe/Te, Si,Ni. Anything other than that is wishful thinking.

lol

[niveK]

so i say to her, you do si, i'll do te.

... wait, what?

In a clear sign of having spent too much time in music theory, I read that as solfege musical notation (I hadn't actually read the first post by that time). I was somewhat pleased/impressed that an augmented fifth and minor seventh were included, as in my mind, I was imagining Blaze teaching her four-year-old how to sight-sing (as much as one can without a reference for the visual aspect). Admittedly, that's an odd choice for a harmony out of context.

Completely meaningless side-story over, feel free to resume the original topic.

[anndelise]

blaze, an awesome game for creative Fi's and children is "Safari Rush Hour" http://www.brain-builders.com/7004.html

i got it for manta when she was just about to turn 5, and she spent hours working on the puzzles, she'd become obsessed with it, by the time she lost interest (a few months later), she'd gone from the jr level to half way through the intermediate level (for 12yo+). Once in a while she pulls it out, or one of the other games from the same company...but she loved it more when she was younger. (I still love them)

what got her attention was the puzzle solving factor
AND the animal factor

[Rocky]

so i say to her, you do si, i'll do te.

... wait, what?

In a clear sign of having spent too much time in music theory, I read that as solfege musical notation (I hadn't actually read the first post by that time). I was somewhat pleased/impressed that an augmented fifth and minor seventh were included, as in my mind, I was imagining Blaze teaching her four-year-old how to sight-sing (as much as one can without a reference for the visual aspect). Admittedly, that's an odd choice for a harmony out of context.

Completely meaningless side-story over, feel free to resume the original topic.

The thought of it though... made me cringe.

[aestrivex]

so i say to her, you do si, i'll do te.

... wait, what?

In a clear sign of having spent too much time in music theory, I read that as solfege musical notation (I hadn't actually read the first post by that time). I was somewhat pleased/impressed that an augmented fifth and minor seventh were included, as in my mind, I was imagining Blaze teaching her four-year-old how to sight-sing (as much as one can without a reference for the visual aspect). Admittedly, that's an odd choice for a harmony out of context.

Completely meaningless side-story over, feel free to resume the original topic.

rofl

[Slacker]

Anyone who thinks children don't have very clear and complete personalities doesn't know any children very well.

I think my 4-year-old is ENFp too, but in my case I acknowledge that it might be wishful thinking because that would work so well in our family, so I'm just watching and not worrying about it.

And I like sudoku but I HATE chess. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE. I like crossword puzzles best as far as that goes.

[Elro]

And I like sudoku but I HATE chess. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE.

Aww, why?

[Slacker]

I don't know. It just gets me frustrated and I don't see any fun in it.

[eunice]

I like sudoku but I HATE chess. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE.

I hate both 'cos I find them frustrating. For sudoku, I just don't understand the hype for the puzzle. I simply hate chess 'cos I hate cracking my brains and strategizing. I prefer someone to do the strategizing for me.

[Expat]

Anyone who thinks children don't have very clear and complete personalities doesn't know any children very well.

Yeah. I was discussing this with an INFj friend (ESTj wife) who has two sons, 2 and 3 years old -- I had already discussed some basic Socionics concepts with him, I had mentioned that the 2-year old was clearly irrational and the 3-year old, rational, and he totally agreed (and no, it's not because the 3-year old changed from irrational to rational in one year).

And I like sudoku but I HATE chess. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE. I like crossword puzzles best as far as that goes.

I know zero about sudoku. As for chess, I played it often ages ago, but the thing is that in order to play it more or less properly, you need a long time, and I'd be thinking "I could be reading a book instead of playing this". So, I don't do it due to the time "wasted".

[Blaze]

i agree with slackermom, you can figure out a kid's type pretty easily, especially your own and especially if you know socionics well enough.

skye is definitely Ne dominant. her imagination is vivid, her thinking quick and insightful even for someone her age. and she is so outgoing, even more so than her esfj sister miranda. skye behaves exactly as my enfp younger brother did as a child, and of course my estj/infj parents dote on skye compared to miranda. so even though she's young, it's not that hard to figure, really.

it's tough going for her though. my ex is an estp, so she's got a super-ego with him. his girlfriend is an infp, so that's a contrary relation. then she's got comparative with me, which can be stressful. her best relation is with miranda, who is her benefactor. and those aren't all that....they're asymmetrical.

so she's been acting out more since the divorce and i've been trying to figure out how i can make it easier for her, since her behaviors perplex me and it can be hard to know exactly what to do. so i figured try Si and Te, maybe that would work. it does work, but it's hard to do on a daily basis.

my other daughter is faring a little better with the divorce; she and i have an activity relation, and her father is her benefactor, not too bad. his girlfriend is her supervisor, but since the girlfriend's in the step mother category, she'll probably stay away from much direct parenting/criticism, plus she's an infp and so maybe sensitive enough to miranda.

if i haven't said it already can i say again? divorce absolutely sucks it is the worst thing i've ever been through.

[mikemex]

* Hit her with a hammer.
* Repeat the procedure until there is complete silence and submission.
* Hell, keep one hammer handy and repeat the procedure with any person who goes off the line...

...well, I support the idea that at such age there is a preference set already, although probably not as developed as adults. If you stimulate a child strong enough in the weak areas, without ignoring their strenghts, I bet you can raise a well rounded person.

My oldest memories are from when I was like 5. At such age I remember myself being creative. I liked to build things: when I was young I built bows, arrows, racing cars and almost anything you can imagine. My imagination always was vivid and I was hunger for knowledge. I took apart every toy I had... and even things which were not toys. In my family I was known as the "destructor". However, it was a bit undeserved, because I also learned from young to fix things and you could see me installing home things, like courtains and doing electrical wiring at 8-9.

In my home, though, there were no deltas (I'm ENFp). I was raised by an alpha father (INTj) and by a beta mother (ENFj). My siblings are both alpha (ESFj and ENTp).

I was first raised by mom, as an NF. There is where I got most of my values from: being honest, hard working, accepting, forgiving, polite. Later in life I started to get close to my dad and then I switched to the NT mode. I remember my dad trying to teach me the greek alphabet somewhere between 5-6...

I learned the "INTj ways" of behaviour and actually used them as a guide for my own social behaviour, until I started to realize it was completelly foreign to me. For example, I never went out with friends, except perhaps with my ISTp friend, who liked to take care of me and take me to places and such. But he was the one taking the initiative; I just followed him. As a general rule, I always stick to my "things" program, instead of my more natural "people" program. This is an area you must watch: ENFp "mimic" their parents in almost every way. Alphas are pretty sharp rejecting what they don't like, and the ENFp is likely to write it down as a rule that if you don't like it, she shouldn't as well. When such "rules" are set at an early age, it's quite difficult to get rid on them later. Can create guilt complexes for liking something you don't aprove.

I'm happy to grow in a family with no Se. It's always been quite paceful. I don't imagine myself living in a family with an ESFp or an ESTp child that keeps fighting with others just for the sake of it. Hell, I'm so used to a paceful enviroment that I can feel the pressence of a disruptive Se type kilometers away.

Thing is, a Ne child only needs an exciting enviroment to grow in. ENFp are intuitive, not either logical or ethical. Feed Ne and you are off with it. Later in life you can train your daugheter to seek for compatible types for her mental health. ENFp are quite flexible, perhaps even more than ENTp, and will heal themsleves from any wound. They would not be able to help other people otherwise...