help with VI
Does ethnicity pose any challenges to VIing someone?
What method do you prefer in typing other people?
How can I learn to VI or otherwise type people in socionics?
Can you type someone with only a few pictures, or do you need other clues?
I know the MBTI pretty well, but socionics still confuses me. I know I'm an INTP in MBTI and I'm pretty sure I'm an INTj in socionics, but I don't know how to type other people--especially with VI. Any help or references would be greatly appreciated.
Not all socionics "professionals" think that VI is accurate... I'm not sure any do.
People here seem to be able to do it.
Besides, even if it isn't reliable, it's somewhat interesting, is it not?
Like would you be able to tell whether someone has judging or perceiving (rational or irrational) preferences with just a picture?
it depends.
VI is a very controversial subject. experience leads me to be very wary of it. VI is perhaps good for getting a good initial impression, but VI impressions should be discarded when they do not appear appropriate.
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My name is the name of a song, but since you mentioned it I felt compelled to look it up. It's the name of a native american tribe or the Iroquois nation. weird!
I agree with what's been said so far.
As for ethnicity -- the problem, to me and I think others, is that a lot of VI is based on a "data bank" of people you've observed. That makes it more difficult to type peope from an ethnic group you've had less contact with, especially from pictures.
On the other hand, VI based on videos, where you can see the person talking and walking, will be less influenced by ethnicity.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I think the way people carry themselves and their expressions and whatnot can be useful for typing, but these things can be socially programmed into us... for example, I have a relatively large bubble of "personal space" around me, and I step back or lean back or cross my arms or put my purse between myself and another individual who comes too close too me. I know that the amount of space people leave between themselves and another is smaller in a lot of other cultures.
I personally see different levels of effectivness in what people call VI. For sake of clarity I'll even break it down into three categories; Visual Identification (VI)- facial/body features, facial expression; Tonal Identification (TI)- identifying types based on voice impressions, and; Biomechanical Identification (BI)- using body movements.
The last one is probably the most criticized when I bring it up. I see VI as semi-accurate, but only based on past experiences with other people so it's limited. TI is similar in that respect but imo less accurate. Whenever I have mentioned BI people have called me crazy so I have been quiet about it for awhile, but I think it's probably the most accurate (so accurate you could probably type anyone based soley on that).
But no one can even agree if you are born with types or not (I think it's silly to believe otherwise but oh well)
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I've explained it before, but it's hard to go much further in depth, I mean, you have to actually see it. It'a not my theory or anything, and it's not directly related to socionics (though I've heard rumblings about it somewhat, if not less organized, in some Russian descriptions) so people are afraid to use it. Socionics are about interpersonal relationships so talking about types on more of the cognitive level scares some people who like to believe the relationships. Through experience I have believed less in the whole relationship thing so I guess I shouldn't talk about socionic types. As for correlation, I remember the guy who came up with this biomechanical thing typing George Harrison as intp and Yoko Ono as esfj; conflicters if you translate everything 1-1, but duals if you do the Introvert switcher-roo-thing (their relationship would be more dual then conflict by any standards). Or the last explaination is that there is not a correlation.
Yeah, I could see that using body movements could certainly tell you a lot. I think that could be very useful, especially in combination with other VI techniques.
Maybe sensors would have an easier time using that approach to VI people, since they'd be more in tune with body movements and things like that?
I also think tone of voice could help reveal a person's type. I know I can always tell an ISTp by that. They all sound like Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain to me.
For me, as an NF it's easier to type people based on their facial expression. I just look at their expression and think "if I were to make that face, what would I be thinking/feeling?" And then based on that, I run through the 16 types in my mind and find the one that matches that most. I'm not always right, but most of the time I get at least 3/4 letters right.
I spend a lot of time typing people though, so it may just be practice. The other day I was at a bar and starting typing a group of guys that were talking to us (I do this all the time at bars and parties because it entertains me and I get bored w/ the usual conversations). There was one guy who I guessed INTP for and then he said he was an architect and he used to be an engineer! He even talked like an INTP. I rambled on a bit about the general INTp description and he said it sounded like him. It was funny. Then there were two ESTps and one ESFp. The feeler guys always get offended when I tell them that (they never want to be feelers).
I think the whole VI thing based on physical features (such as how big your nose or eyes are) is silly. I've seen people of the same type who look very different. But the facial expression thing and tone of voice stuff, I'm all for that.
Just from photos, I think it's easiest to tell if someone is an S or N from their eyes. It's almost like their gaze is scattered all around (for N), or focused on something right in front of them (S).
For the rest, I imagine having a conversation with the person. Thinkers generally look more difficult to offend, feelers look like I'd have to be more tactfull. Extroverts look like their eyes might wander during a conversation, like they're focused on the entire room, and introverets look like they're caught up in their own thoughts. Judgers look like they'd be mad if I told them I had changed their daily schedules, where as perceivers look more easy going. That's a bit sterotypical of course, but that's what works for me.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
Yeah, like with diamond8, I feel uncomfortable when people say they talk about this kinda stuff in public (especially with strangers). Do you see why?
I see what you're saying, but I never embarass anyone doing this!!! That would be an awful thing to do to someoneYeah, like with diamond8, I feel uncomfortable when people say they talk about this kinda stuff in public (especially with strangers). Do you see why?If I suspect they are a feeler, I tell them they are good w/ people and that sort of thing, I don't make it sound like they're some wuss. And I always tell them that "feeling" just means it's how you make decisions (whether you take everyone else into account, or not), and has nothing to do w/ actually feelings.
I would never embarass a guy in front of his friends! That's what it sounds like you think I'm doing.
One of the guys in that group actually wanted to be a feeler, even though he wasn't. And kept saying he was sensitive (he said this in front of all of his friends).
Usually, people really like the attention and like to be asked questions. Usually they're asking me to figure out their types and get all excited about it and are having fun. So how it that bad???
I also give them examples of "cool" celebrities w/ their type, not dorky ones. I think all the type are great and want other people to see their good points.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
And one more thing...if horny guys are going to risk talking to my friends and me, they're going to risk being typed. It's just the way it is.Yeah, like with diamond8, I feel uncomfortable when people say they talk about this kinda stuff in public (especially with strangers). Do you see why?
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
It's fine if you want to type everyone you meet, I just wouldn't tell everyone about it!And one more thing...if horny guys are going to risk talking to my friends and me, they're going to risk being typed. It's just the way it is.Yeah, like with diamond8, I feel uncomfortable when people say they talk about this kinda stuff in public (especially with strangers). Do you see why?
No, that's not what I thought you were doing, I meant in general (not you) that bringing this kinda stuff up in front of strangers can make you seem kinda weird. Plus, you never know how accurate you are.I would never embarass a guy in front of his friends! That's what it sounds like you think I'm doing.
No one has thought I was weird for talking about this. A couple months ago I typed a group of 5 guys that were friends w/ a guy I was dating. ALL Of the guy's friends LIKED being typed.
After I figured out their types, we were just hanging out and FOUR out of the five guys came up to me individually, and said once their friend moved away, they wanted to go out w/ me. So I think if they thought I was some weird freak, they wouldn't have tried to get my number, right? Of course I didn't give it to them, as they weren't loyal to their friend, but whatever...the point is, if it's what I'm into, so I'm going to talk about it.
But I appreciate your attempt at trying to prevent me from making a fool of myself. :wink: It's all how you say something, you know? Some people talk about how nice the weather is and look like freaks, and others talk about strange things and seem normal.
Like, I remember this one time, I'd just quit a job and had to go to a networking event in my field. I was mortified that when all these strangers asked what I did, I'd have to say I was unemployed. Embarassing, right? So instead, I said that I'd just quit and sounded excited about it. Half the people high fived me and confessed they would love to be able to just walk out. They seemed really happy for me. If I had acted mortified and embarassed, they would have felt sorry for me instead. so, my point is, it's all how you say something.
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It's fine if you want to type everyone you meet, I just wouldn't tell everyone about it!
No, that's not what I thought you were doing, I meant in general (not you) that bringing this kinda stuff up in front of strangers can make you seem kinda weird. Plus, you never know how accurate you are.[/quote]I would never embarass a guy in front of his friends! That's what it sounds like you think I'm doing.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
It's fine if you want to type everyone you meet, I just wouldn't tell everyone about it!
No, that's not what I thought you were doing, I meant in general (not you) that bringing this kinda stuff up in front of strangers can make you seem kinda weird. Plus, you never know how accurate you are.[/quote]I would never embarass a guy in front of his friends! That's what it sounds like you think I'm doing.
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jewels, in these posts (and esp. the experinces you desribe in them and your "public" stance on socionics )you do not quite come accros as enfp...either you aren't an enfp, or i have never ever been one...
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