The ultimate survivor

[Expat]

If you haven't met someone like this yet, you will eventually.

The kind of person who never rises to the top - or if s/he does, by default, simply because everyone else has been fired/killed/whatever.

Who, in atmospheres of political infighting, is not seen as a threat or enemy by any of the factions, yet seems to be everyone's friend or at least neutral. The ultimate aim seems not be not power itself, but survival, but yet not getting away from such atmospheres totally.

S/he never gets fired in a downsizing, is never hated (may not be taken seriously though), temporary alliances with rival factions are accepted somehow and not seen as treason.

Which types would be most likely to fit such people?

[FDG]

ISFp/ENTp/ISTp/ENFp

Really, one of those types, but NO other type.

If I had to narrow it down even more, I'd say ENTp/ISFp.

[Exodus]

Probably ISp.

Not ENTps; they can be pretty obnoxious.

[eunice]

(Not in order)

EIIeople seem to see them as rather weak (I don't know why ) and due to their seemingly lack of interest in climbing up the corporate ladder, people don't see them as a threat at all. People either like them, or couldn't care less about them.

SEI: They seem to be easygoing and unassuming, and people are let off their guard thinking that they are rather contented with their present situation. But I have noticed that SEIs can be rather deceptive and cunning especially when they notice so much but reveal very little. All I can say that they are not as innocent as they seem. And having a cute appearance helps them get away with a lot of things.

SEE: Others don't seem to treat them seriously, especially the female SEEs. And been sociable helps them to get into the good books of the important people. I have seen a lot of SEEs who try to prove others wrong by performing beyond others' expectations, and yet still manage to not make others feel that they are a threat.

[Expat]

ISFp/ENTp/ISTp/ENFp

Really, one of those types, but NO other type.

If I had to narrow it down even more, I'd say ENTp/ISFp.

Hmm, you seem to be attributing it to being in the Ne-Si axis. And, of course, Reasonable and irrational.

Why not INTj for instance? (by the way, it's not a trick question -- I haven't got a firm idea myself yet).

[FDG]

ISFp/ENTp/ISTp/ENFp

Really, one of those types, but NO other type.

If I had to narrow it down even more, I'd say ENTp/ISFp.

Hmm, you seem to be attributing it to being in the Ne-Si axis. And, of course, Reasonable and irrational.

Why not INTj for instance? (by the way, it's not a trick question -- I haven't got a firm idea myself yet).

A behaviour I have seen as common among them is succintly described by smilingeyes in his last groups:

ENTp - ENFp - ISFp - ISTp : irrational - judicious - carefree
Just having fun, caring about nothing but personal comfort. Comfort through relaxation.

Of course the EP and IP are working with Ne and Si, and not with Ti, Fi, Te and Fe - which would bring other results, or rather other accentuations in the behaviour.

When the above situation is emphasized, the EP and IP I've observed tend to be removed from all the eventual struggles present in a given place, yet they seem to develop unique set of skills (due to their isolation, too) that are required on the workplace for specific tasks. Thus, they are saved from being fired both due to the lack of involvment, and the necessity of their skills in the workplace.

Of course other suggestions are welcomed since this is sketchy at its best.

[Expat]

Ah ok, but I was looking at it more from the political point of view.

[Expat]

(Not in order)

EIIeople seem to see them as rather weak (I don't know why ) and due to their seemingly lack of interest in climbing up the corporate ladder, people don't see them as a threat at all. People either like them, or couldn't care less about them.

Yes, that makes sense.

SEI: They seem to be easygoing and unassuming, and people are let off their guard thinking that they are rather contented with their present situation. But I have noticed that SEIs can be rather deceptive and cunning especially when they notice so much but reveal very little. All I can say that they are not as innocent as they seem. And having a cute appearance helps them get away with a lot of things.

Also, SEIs prefer Si over Se but also can use Se when they have to or choose to. But perhaps it also fits.

SEE: Others don't seem to treat them seriously, especially the female SEEs. And been sociable helps them to get into the good books of the important people. I have seen a lot of SEEs who try to prove others wrong by performing beyond others' expectations, and yet still manage to not make others feel that they are a threat.

Hmm, that one I disagree with. In an enviroment of political infighting, SEEs will tend to stand out due to their leadership inclinations and decisiveness.

[Smilingeyes]

ISFp is probably the "best" at what is meant in this thread. Reasons that FDG gives apply. Introverts are the ones that aren't noticed so they pass under the radar. Then by comparison ISFp is just more inoffensive than ISTp. There's a notice about them in some type descriptions that comments that they have a habit of acting average, doing worse work than they're able to or sometimes overachieving just so they can stay in the middle of the pack.

[stefana]

INFj appears in my head.

[Slacker]

Yeah INFj

[Logos]

Why not INTj for instance? (by the way, it's not a trick question -- I haven't got a firm idea myself yet).

Because the INTj would get voted off the island by the hot ESFp hussy and all the guys who are allied with her in order to get into her "oh-so-revealing" bikini.

[Kristiina]

I was thinking INFp. They kinda like stability as well (they tend to think ahead) so they'll make sure they don't create any irreparable damage for the future. Also, they get along with everyone, they are friendly with people, they don't push their opinion. They are so unsure of their own knowledge that they don't seem as a threat in a corporate world. ISFp is also an option, but they kinda tend to rub me the wrong way, so I do notice them and it's not a good thing. INFj works as well.

[pezzonovante]

polr types - INFJ & INTJ would make sense.

[XoX]

If you haven't met someone like this yet, you will eventually.

The kind of person who never rises to the top - or if s/he does, by default, simply because everyone else has been fired/killed/whatever.

Who, in atmospheres of political infighting, is not seen as a threat or enemy by any of the factions, yet seems to be everyone's friend or at least neutral. The ultimate aim seems not be not power itself, but survival, but yet not getting away from such atmospheres totally.

S/he never gets fired in a downsizing, is never hated (may not be taken seriously though), temporary alliances with rival factions are accepted somehow and not seen as treason.

Which types would be most likely to fit such people?

In the last big brother there was an ISFp girl who was a lot like this. She managed to stay out of votes because she had good relations with almost all people and she wasn't flashy enough to really have a shot to win the whole thing. Of course she didn't win because she didn't have what it takes to win but she managed to get into top-5 without really doing anything except being nice and staying under the radar. However there was also an ISFp guy who was very controversial. So perhaps this would apply more to ISFp females.

Then I was thinking that perhaps ISFjs could be like that sometimes? No one has been suggesting any Se-types but if you choose one of them it would be ISFj.

I disagree a bit with the INTj thing because they can be quite stubborn and argumentative which might get on some people's nerves. INFj I could see.

Then ESFps who are not overly chaotic or aggressive might be able to pull this off. They can be real asskissers. Not all of them aim at the top. Many are satisfied to asskiss high level people.

INFp perhaps yes. It might depend on the context but they do have a tendency to form support networks which might keep them on the surface. At least the Fe-subs.

[xiuxiu]

uh, is there really a type that could maneuver in this way within a social setting comprised of at least one member in each quadra? not that that is realistic- it may be drastically more or less, or mildly even, but the likelihood of this type 'surviving' as you defined sounds only determinable (of course, this happening is feasible, but it proves nothing) if the control (social setting) is known. then it could be judged whether or not the type has remained on account of its interpersonal abilities, rather than just being in fair enough standings with enough of the right people. of course, the bias is still present until all quadras in full are included. barebones, ExxP types in general are the obvious answers candidates.

ed: no strikeout code installed here? for shame.

[Jonathan]

Then I was thinking that perhaps ISFjs could be like that sometimes? No one has been suggesting any Se-types but if you choose one of them it would be ISFj.

I would agree here. This is one case where quasi-identicals can appear quite similar. Both ISF types like to stay in the background usually, and to keep amicable relationships with all people.

Between them, ISFjs are more likely to survive lay-offs because they're more likely to be seen as quiet, responsible hard workers who will put up with whatever and make sure business gets done.

Of course, in reality, no one is immune to downsizing...It's just the impression.

[Expat]

Of course, in reality, no one is immune to downsizing...It's just the impression.

"Immune" is very obviously an exaggeration. "Less likely" is not.

The point some people here are missing - not surprising since so many haven't really started working yet - is that in a downsizing etc, politics can be more important than your qualifications or how hard you work.

Then I was thinking that perhaps ISFjs could be like that sometimes? No one has been suggesting any Se-types but if you choose one of them it would be ISFj.

I would agree here. This is one case where quasi-identicals can appear quite similar. Both ISF types like to stay in the background usually, and to keep amicable relationships with all people.

Between them, ISFjs are more likely to survive lay-offs because they're more likely to be seen as quiet, responsible hard workers who will put up with whatever and make sure business gets done.

That's exactly where you are mistaken. "Responsible hard workers who will put up with whatever and make sure business gets done" get in many people's nerves. It may be difficult to make things happen without such people, but in a downsizing, when it's about surviving and making sure your allies and friends survive too, decision-makers often get rid of "annoying" people, no matter how much work they get done.

And it's a misunderstanding of ISFjs that they "like to stay in the background usually, and to keep amicable relationships with all people." They don't like making enemies, but they will be hard on those whom they see as lazy, unreliable, untrustworthy.

As for INFps -- I was thinking of that, but I think that INFps will be more likely to be seen as connected to one particular faction. However, a very clever INFp in an environment where no single factions is obviously more powerful can pull it off, I think.

[eunice]

Why not INTj for instance? (by the way, it's not a trick question -- I haven't got a firm idea myself yet).

Because the INTj would get voted off the island by the hot ESFp hussy and all the guys who are allied with her in order to get into her "oh-so-revealing" bikini.

Sounds like Survivor: Cook Islands.

[napalm]

This is sooo me.


I've even had a few people at work comment recently on it. Hmm, interesting.


I generally lay low to begin with and I seem to have this sixth sense (I posted a little about it in the Delta Quadra area) for when things are going on.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Kristiina]

As for INFps -- I was thinking of that, but I think that INFps will be more likely to be seen as connected to one particular faction. However, a very clever INFp in an environment where no single factions is obviously more powerful can pull it off, I think.

A very good point.

Maybe ISFps do too much on a whim. They don't really think of what will happen later so they might fall off the "ultimate survivor" list because of the foolish things that they might do.

INTj and INFj make more and more sense here.

[Expat]

I started this thread because I was thinking of a couple of historical figures about whose type I wasn't - and I am not - sure, but they fit this "survivor" profile. Since I already had a couple of ideas about their types, I wanted to get some fresh views.

[Gilly]

Feelers, introverts, Si>Se. SEI or EII.

[Smilingeyes]

@Expat: There are two different type of situations in which survivor ability differs significantly. Originally I thought you meant the kind of a situation in which people need to be actively targeted to get culled. That's the kind of a situation in which ISFp excels. But they survive solely by not sticking their neck out, not being seen as a threat.

If you need to be a sort of active participant in the process, like if you actually need the active protection of as many parties as possible to survive then it's IP Ni that we're looking for so INFp or INTp of extreme Ni variety would be the correct answer (essentially agreeing with your suggestion).

[Gilly]

Smilex:

I agree on some level with IEI/ILI (at least in the cases you described), but I would think that, valuing Se, their relative penchant for creating or being involved in controversy (especially the ILI with weak Fe) would make them more noticeable in the larger scheme of things. I also think that IEIs have a great potential to be seen as "climbers" sometimes, and are called out, whereas EIIs are almost always seen as the docile, wise kind of person, never really getting in anyone's way, etc. I really think valuing Si>Se is key here, and being ethical definitely helps.

[Expat]

@Expat: There are two different type of situations in which survivor ability differs significantly. Originally I thought you meant the kind of a situation in which people need to be actively targeted to get culled. That's the kind of a situation in which ISFp excels. But they survive solely by not sticking their neck out, not being seen as a threat.

Yes, I agree with that, but also with Gilligan that INFj fits it -- actually it occurred to me now that my own INFj mate is a good example.

If you need to be a sort of active participant in the process, like if you actually need the active protection of as many parties as possible to survive then it's IP Ni that we're looking for so INFp or INTp of extreme Ni variety would be the correct answer (essentially agreeing with your suggestion).

Yes, that was what I was thinking of.

I was thinking of two individuals in particular -- Talleyrand and Nerva.

Talleyrand managed to survive - biologically and politically - from the Ancien Regime, through the Revolution, Napoleon, and the Restoration. Not always without problems, but it was a remarkable feat.

Marcus Cocceius Nerva was a senator and elected Emperor of Rome by the Senate in 96, at the age of some 65, having previously denounced a conspiracy against Nero, and survived Nero's downfall and civil war; honoured by the victorious emperor, Vespasian. Then he denounced - again - a conspiracy against the emperor Domitian and was honored by him. Nevertheless he conspired himself to assassinate Domitian and became emperor. His brief reign was problematic, with his life in danger, and he managed to survive even then, politically, and even to go into history as the first of the so-called "Five Good Emperors".

There is sure a lot of information on Talleyrand, but very little about Nerva; what is common is the astounding talent for survival (also political) in very dangerous periods.

[XoX]

As for INFps -- I was thinking of that, but I think that INFps will be more likely to be seen as connected to one particular faction. However, a very clever INFp in an environment where no single factions is obviously more powerful can pull it off, I think.

A very good point.

Maybe ISFps do too much on a whim. They don't really think of what will happen later so they might fall off the "ultimate survivor" list because of the foolish things that they might do.

INTj and INFj make more and more sense here.

Ok, ISFps can be a bit naive which makes them less of survivors. I still kind of disagree with INTj. I have different personal experiences (although my sample is very small). INFj I can more or less agree with.

[napalm]

This is sooo me.


I've even had a few people at work comment recently on it. Hmm, interesting.


I generally lay low to begin with and I seem to have this sixth sense (I posted a little about it in the Delta Quadra area) for when things are going on.

It sounds like something you're proud of? Is that accurate?

Well I'm certainly not ashamed of it. There's something to be said for being The Grey Man.


Remember: the nail that sticks up gets pounded down. :wink:

[UDP]

I vote INFj, because leading function can generate powerful relationships.

Where as ......

INTjs usually have an interest that stays with them for a long time and are absolutely indifferent to what others say about it. They never endorse their position in life. INTjs live in a world of their own conception. They simply ignore rules, concepts and directives that do not suit them. Most people do not understand INTjs and try to keep away from them.

http://www.socionics.com/prof/intj.htm


INTjs are less likely, because their inherent distance will either make people dislike them in that LIIs come up with nothing useful or relevant, or, LIIs create something that is useful and nobody wants to listen because it will shift the status quo so much.


That is a very shallow assessment, however; with real personal growth an LII could overcome his inherent weaknesses and become more adaptable and so on, as could any other type. But at the initial, default setting of types, I would definitely say EII over LII ... unless perhaps there was a very obscure realm of knowledge that someone knew the LII was good for.