Differences between IEI-INFp and SEI-ISFp

[ScarlettLux]

I would also like to add that we exude a much darker "vibe" or "aura" and can be downright sly sometimes. I do not get the idea that SEIs enjoy any type of confrontation. IEIs are able to get riled up and heated up a lot more than SEIs who seem to me to be generally affable all the time. Much sweeter.

IEIs are rarely "there", I agree.

[Mediator Kam]

In a super Fe way.

I talk excessively formal at times, run in the halls when I see someone, then flip around them before I get there.

I say the weirdest things to people. It really is on a Fe Basis, just my way of saying things or acting.

[Mediator Kam]

I would also like to add that we exude a much darker "vibe" or "aura" and can be downright sly sometimes. I do not get the idea that SEIs enjoy any type of confrontation. IEIs are able to get riled up and heated up a lot more than SEIs who seem to me to be generally affable all the time. Much sweeter.

IEIs are rarely "there", I agree.

I easily get riled up if I feel like it, but I fail the drive to carry it to conclusion/victory.

[Mediator Kam]

Dammit. I wanna to be mysterious too!!

You can be unpredictable instead!

[redbaron]

I would also like to add that we exude a much darker "vibe" or "aura" and can be downright sly sometimes. I do not get the idea that SEIs enjoy any type of confrontation. IEIs are able to get riled up and heated up a lot more than SEIs who seem to me to be generally affable all the time. Much sweeter.

SEIs are extremely sweet, I agree. They're sensitive also and don't like it when they think there's a chance someone could be upset or irritated with them. But they usually won't take the initiative to address it, they tend to take the "wait and see" approach. I prefer to work things out immediately rather than having to guess what's going on and why the other person is acting strangely or quiet or whatever (unless I really don't care). SEIs have this great ability to live fully in the present which is a trait that I admire. When I'm with an SEI I feel glad to be alive at that moment. I'm like the middle-aged IEI who's given up her quest for finding some overarching meaning to life and has decided to become an SEI and enjoy the here and now (not really but sometimes that's how I feel).

[Ezra]

Honestly, Vampira, you're probably the female twin of one of my housemates. He is a Nine, and he is Fe creative.

The thing is, I can't tell if he is SEI or IEI. Same with you.

Try not to let the fact that my housemate is a Nine influence your response to the question. I know for a fact that there are some who hold that Nines can be IEIs. I also know that there are those (including myself) who believe that the most common type for an IEI is Four. So, what does this tell us? Fuck all. It says that my housemate is a Nine, and so could either be IEI or SEI.

I am quite confused about how to differentiate. I'm not talking about confusion created by bee and other SEIs who are attracted to typing themselves as IEI; I'm talking about the genuine differences between SEIs and IEIs. How do you tell between them? The Fe creative bit is easy; the IP is even easier. But the base function... I just can't get it. The funny thing is, there are some people, like glam and starfall who simply could not be SEI, and people like Kamajama who could not be IEI. But then there are those who could easily be either. Which is which?

[Wynch]

I think the difference is in intent. Thinking about the ego as a means of transportation is a good analogy imo. The Creative function is a vehicle and the Base function is the fuel that drives it. While on the outside the vehicles look the same, how they're driven is essentially different.

Looking at SEIs and IEIs (and any pair of introverted business relations) is going to be a little trickier. This assumption on my part is based off the idea of tracing introverted base functions. Because they're committed internally, it becomes a little trickier for others to really pinpoint their origins.

With SEIs and IEIs I think you have to approach it as a matter of intent. What is motivating that person? With SEIs you can see it as generally more of a caregiver intent, where their motivations are a little more externally oriented. IEIs, on the otherhand, are way more internal in their motivations which comes off as philosophical (in a descriptive sense).

[Sirena]

In general, I feel IEIs are more aggressive and edgier, while SEIs are sweeter and calmer. Se-valuing vs Si, I guess. I guess there is a way to see the difference between Ni and Ne-valuing, too. Of course both can be moody, but there is this edge thing that SEIs, even when pissed, don't have. Not sure that made any sense.

Hmm... This is difficult. Maybe this will help? IEIs will change between states of being very present (Fe) and states of being very far gone (Ni). I'd say SEIs are a lot more stable in their presence. They are somehow aware of their surroundings all the time. IEIs can fall totally out at times. Lost in space.

I think the difference is in intent. Thinking about the ego as a means of transportation is a good analogy imo. The Creative function is a vehicle and the Base function is the fuel that drives it. While on the outside the vehicles look the same, how they're driven is essentially different.

Looking at SEIs and IEIs (and any pair of introverted business relations) is going to be a little trickier. This assumption on my part is based off the idea of tracing introverted base functions. Because they're committed internally, it becomes a little trickier for others to really pinpoint their origins.

With SEIs and IEIs I think you have to approach it as a matter of intent. What is motivating that person? With SEIs you can see it as generally more of a caregiver intent, where their motivations are a little more externally oriented. IEIs, on the otherhand, are way more internal in their motivations which comes off as philosophical (in a descriptive sense).

Very, very true. Especially the part in bold. And I definitely notice those differences between my sister (vampira) and I, which is why sometimes I wonder if she isn't an extrovert afterall since she has a more external focus, compared to me, of course. It's true that the caregiver v. victim thing is telling, the focus is completely different. One being more internal than the other.

For instance, my sister sees me as self-centered because I'm more internally driven. From her perspective, I don't consider others as much as I should. Her words: "I don't understand how you can be gone from reality so much. It's annoying sometimes. You'll just sit there in your own little world and forget that you live in society." She often feels ignored by me. Her focus is on the here and now, on her feelings surrounding what's going on around her at the moment. On the other hand, I don't understand how she can see things so simplistically and passively. SEIs, to me, are more easily influenced because they lack the deep (sometimes dark) Beta passion. In my experience, they value external emotional comfort over ideals. With this focus, they are not likely to develop very strong-held ideals, to the point of being willing to die for them. It's not worth it to them. Present comfort and being content is more important to them. This is a pretty obvious contrast between the two of us. I get these extremely strong impulses to defend some ideal against all odds. No matter what. Life or death. It's hard to describe the feeling associated with this, but it is very fulfilling. It's when I feel most alive. It doesn't have to be anything huge either, it's almost like an inborn impulse I have. She's not this way. Taking it that far simply isn't worth it to her. It gives her no sense of fulfillment because it interferes with her more simplistic (to me!), sense of happiness. So yeah, I see her as superficial and apathetic and she sees me as psychotic .

[07490]

I think the difference is in intent. Thinking about the ego as a means of transportation is a good analogy imo. The Creative function is a vehicle and the Base function is the fuel that drives it. While on the outside the vehicles look the same, how they're driven is essentially different.

Looking at SEIs and IEIs (and any pair of introverted business relations) is going to be a little trickier. This assumption on my part is based off the idea of tracing introverted base functions. Because they're committed internally, it becomes a little trickier for others to really pinpoint their origins.

With SEIs and IEIs I think you have to approach it as a matter of intent. What is motivating that person? With SEIs you can see it as generally more of a caregiver intent, where their motivations are a little more externally oriented. IEIs, on the otherhand, are way more internal in their motivations which comes off as philosophical (in a descriptive sense).

This is nice vero, I think that their Fe creative, which both of them produced will be very similar in that sense, But I think their Hidden agenda, Ne/SI, SE/Ni and their drive of what they want in relationship is different.

[07490]

For instance, my sister sees me as self-centered because I'm more internally driven. From her perspective, I don't consider others as much as I should. Her words: "I don't understand how you can be gone from reality so much. It's annoying sometimes. You'll just sit there in your own little world and forget that you live in society." She often feels ignored by me. Her focus is on the here and now, on her feelings surrounding what's going on around her at the moment. On the other hand, I don't understand how she can see things so simplistically and passively. SEIs, to me, are more easily influenced because they lack the deep (sometimes dark) Beta passion. In my experience, they value external emotional comfort over ideals. With this focus, they are not likely to develop very strong-held ideals, to the point of being willing to die for them. It's not worth it to them. Present comfort and being content is more important to them. This is a pretty obvious contrast between the two of us. I get these extremely strong impulses to defend some ideal against all odds. No matter what. Life or death. It's hard to describe the feeling associated with this, but it is very fulfilling. It's when I feel most alive. It doesn't have to be anything huge either, it's almost like an inborn impulse I have. She's not this way. Taking it that far simply isn't worth it to her. It gives her no sense of fulfillment because it interferes with her more simplistic (to me!), sense of happiness. So yeah, I see her as superficial and apathetic and she sees me as psychotic .

Yea and I think you can group this view the differences in Alpha and Beta in general.

[implied]

Not sure how to explain this in any other way than the way I feel the differences, and not at all sure that is helpful....

Hmm... You'd never mistake me for a SEI. You'd see me as EIE, probably, if anything but IEI. And people here VId me an ST-type, haha. I'm IEI, though. And I'm the Fe-subtype, supposedly the type that should be the most similar to SEIs. (Imo, the Ni-sub resembles ILIs, while the Fe-subs resemble EIEs)

In general, I feel IEIs are more aggressive and edgier, while SEIs are sweeter and calmer. Se-valuing vs Si, I guess. I guess there is a way to see the difference between Ni and Ne-valuing, too. Of course both can be moody, but there is this edge thing that SEIs, even when pissed, don't have. Not sure that made any sense.

Hmm... This is difficult. Maybe this will help? IEIs will change between states of being very present (Fe) and states of being very far gone (Ni). I'd say SEIs are a lot more stable in their presence. They are somehow aware of their surroundings all the time. IEIs can fall totally out at times. Lost in space.

i like this. yeah i see IEIs as more aggressive and edgier, more often. the default mode for alpha SFs i feel is one of being internally relaxed, like basically the sort of person who would not fight w/ you unless very much provoked. the IEI might do it for fun. not sure i agree on either being more or less "sweet" because i see them as using Fe to different ends.


err, where were you vi'ed as ST?

[xerx]

I am quite confused about how to differentiate. I'm not talking about confusion created by bee and other SEIs who are attracted to typing themselves as IEI; I'm talking about the genuine differences between SEIs and IEIs. How do you tell between them? The Fe creative bit is easy; the IP is even easier. But the base function... I just can't get it. The funny thing is, there are some people, like glam and starfall who simply could not be SEI, and people like Kamajama who could not be IEI. But then there are those who could easily be either. Which is which?

Don't quote this please. If anyone doesn't want this information out there (it wasn't hard to get), I'll take it down right away.

Based on the intertypes I've managed to see we can perform an experiment - If I missed some relations or got something wrong, please bring it up. IMO the SEIs around here break down as:

Kamajama SEI Si

Ne seeking >> Ti seeking.

-very good relations with Anndelise (IEE)
-very good relations with Elro (Alpha-Delta - ILE-IEE by last reconning)

-below average to non-committal reaction to Ti-heavy individuals in Alpha (Logos, hkkmr). Some confrontations.
-below average to non-committal relations with Darkstar (Alpha-Beta - XLE)

On average, I'd say Kam is slightly more open to odd types of personalities than bionicgoat, and likes weirder forms of expression. +Ne seeking. I'm a huge fan of the emo stuff and the rest of his work. ()

Bionicgoat SEI Fe

Ne seeking ~ Ti seeking.

-very good relations with Ashton (SLE)
-very good relations with Herzy (SLE)
-very good relations with Ti-heavy alphas: mn0good, labcoat

-very good relations with subT (self-type LII)
-very good relations with Brilliand (LII)
-very good relations with Carla (self-type LII)

-worse reaction to Ne-heavy Alphas (Gulanzon). Some confrontation.



Under the common subtype system: Acc subtype has weaker but more valued DS, stronger but less valued HA. Prod subtype has stronger but less valued DS, weaker but more valued HA.

note: "Ti-heavy" doesn't mean the person is Ti subtype or necessarily Ti ego, only that in so far as I've determined, the person uses Ti often, though in a few cases the former probably is deserved.

TheMime. self types as ESE now.
Dolphin self types SEE now. If she's beta, then EIE > IEI (imo).
Jem could be delta NF.
Bee -- most stuff happen on stickam.
munenori -- need stickam observations. Leaning towards no subtype.
Gulanzon -- ?

possibly anomalies
(Joy as LIE gets along with Kam, which is damn rare in SEI-LIE relations. These are two types quite a few Russian socionists claim rarely get along, and the main reason I considered IEI for Kam a while back.

This is also a reason I can't see Ashton as LIE, if bionicgoat is SEI.

I'll have to look into this and reconsider either Joy's or Ashton's typings.)

[Khola aka Bee]

Very, very true. Especially the part in bold. And I definitely notice those differences between my sister (vampira) and I, which is why sometimes I wonder if she isn't an extrovert afterall since she has a more external focus, compared to me, of course. It's true that the caregiver v. victim thing is telling, the focus is completely different. One being more internal than the other.

For instance, my sister sees me as self-centered because I'm more internally driven. From her perspective, I don't consider others as much as I should. Her words: "I don't understand how you can be gone from reality so much. It's annoying sometimes. You'll just sit there in your own little world and forget that you live in society." She often feels ignored by me. Her focus is on the here and now, on her feelings surrounding what's going on around her at the moment. On the other hand, I don't understand how she can see things so simplistically and passively. SEIs, to me, are more easily influenced because they lack the deep (sometimes dark) Beta passion. In my experience, they value external emotional comfort over ideals. With this focus, they are not likely to develop very strong-held ideals, to the point of being willing to die for them. It's not worth it to them. Present comfort and being content is more important to them. This is a pretty obvious contrast between the two of us. I get these extremely strong impulses to defend some ideal against all odds. No matter what. Life or death. It's hard to describe the feeling associated with this, but it is very fulfilling. It's when I feel most alive. It doesn't have to be anything huge either, it's almost like an inborn impulse I have. She's not this way. Taking it that far simply isn't worth it to her. It gives her no sense of fulfillment because it interferes with her more simplistic (to me!), sense of happiness. So yeah, I see her as superficial and apathetic and she sees me as psychotic .

Bullshit. Going by that I'd be a blatant IEI, and we all know where that path leads.... absolutely nowhere.

[Khola aka Bee]

i like this. yeah i see IEIs as more aggressive and edgier, more often. the default mode for alpha SFs i feel is one of being internally relaxed, like basically the sort of person who would not fight w/ you unless very much provoked. the IEI might do it for fun. not sure i agree on either being more or less "sweet" because i see them as using Fe to different ends.


err, where were you vi'ed as ST?

I agree with this.

I think I am no less passionate than an IEI, and I will literally fight to the death if I feel strongly about something, but I don't do it just to stir the pot, just to get a reaction. I prefer harmony and a bit of light teasing/playful aggression here and there to a big argument for no good reason. But this is not to say that I won't fire up given the right circumstances! If it gets to that, I rarely lose a battle.

[ArchonAlarion]

@ jxtres: How did you know I have bad reactions to Ashton. It's nothing against him, he just scares me.

Anyway, since I have decided on 9w1, I will also adopt a SEI-Si stance, but fear the Fe, for it will come in furor when you least expect it.

Yeah I thought about 9w1 for you and Si sub.

Well see if it works and all that jazz, although you might be 9w1 Fe sub and thats currently what I'm typing you as.

[xerx]

@ jxtres: How did you know I have bad reactions to Ashton. It's nothing against him, he just scares me.

Ah. I'll remove it then. I thought you had a longer interaction with Ashton.

Anyway, since I have decided on 9w1, I will also adopt a SEI-Si stance, but fear the Fe, for it will come in furor when you least expect it.

Being an accepting subtype shouldn't mean a loss of your creative function, and its return in furor portends glory upon future glory.

I'll also add that as an SEI, you lean more towards delta than bionicgoat, who leans towards beta. You also seem more concerned about making fewer Te mistakes than he, whereas cre-subtypes more easily ignore their polr.

If this subtype system is right, it should predict that you're less interested in Ti in others (because it's stronger you can generate enough for yourself) and more fascinated by Ne. Relative to a producing subtype anyway.

I don't know why I wrote all that. I don't even officially believe in subtypes. But I like experiments.

[ArchonAlarion]

I'd disagree with you there Jxrtes.

The Fe ISFp has Ne agenda, meaning they try to produce a tangible form of Ne in their main projects and interests (Like something that other people could easily recognize and take in Ne from). An Si ISFp has Ti agenda and will try to produce that. Basically, one transmutes internal object dynamics into internal object statics and the other external field dynamics into external field statics.

I do not follow that one likes one quadra better BS.

Also i think BG is not ISFp and if he was then I'd go with Si sub anyhow.

[xerx]

I'd disagree with you there Jxrtes.

The Fe ISFp has Ne agenda, meaning they try to produce a tangible form of Ne in their main projects and interests (Like something that other people could easily recognize and take in Ne from). An Si ISFp has Ti agenda and will try to produce that. Basically, one transmutes internal object dynamics into internal object statics and the other external field dynamics into external field statics.

We're obviously working with different interpretations. In my interpretation, functions in the same block work together.

An SEI-Si will certainly be willing to use Ti, but will gravitate to using it in the context of Ne. Without Ne, the Ti might seem stale, boring or just unnecessary. (This is how I feel about Fe without Si). Without Ne input, the SEI-Si is also less likely to modify his established Ti beliefs... leading to something like what Expat explained in his "pathetic hidden agenda" thread.

An SEI-Fe will have fewer hindrances about accepting pure Ti with less Ne input.

I'm also not suggesting that Ti becomes the new DS for the Fe subtype. I don't have enough experience to make either that claim or its negation.

I do not follow that one likes one quadra better BS.

Unless it's a fictional character, I don't type by quadra. Period. I think it's juvenile and way too open to interpretation of what constitutes quadra values. But there is some merit in typing along the temperament ring. An SEI-Fe will supposedly have a greater understanding of Fe, and can better understand and appreciate [beta] Fe from outside his quadra.

Also i think BG is not ISFp and if he was then I'd go with Si sub anyhow.

What type do you think he is?

If he's indeed SEI, then whole purpose of the experiment was to determine his subtype, and since he has very good relations with Ti dominants, Fe DS and people typed as betas, then a plausible conclusion is that he's SEI-Fe (or at least SEI no subtype).

[ArchonAlarion]

There has been good points to him being Ne INFj, but Im still not sold on that. Until I can feel confident I'd rather not use him as an example for either type.

And yeah working with different premises limits our discussion.

[Creepy-male]

I'd be SEI-Si by that. I think this whole issue I have with Yake and Vero is because they're being stubborn with their Ti-flogging without giving me any Ne (This Is The Truth, You Are Wrong Shut Up is what I'm hearing). Also, I like Deltas more than the Betas

Hmm.

[Khola aka Bee]

I like the raw edge of the Betas, but Deltas are ok too, I suppose. I kind of like Vero's "here's the deal, I'll break it down for you" thing.

But I'm a blatant SEI-Fe, lol

[ArchonAlarion]

You may think you like one quadra better, but upon real life interaction you may be surprised.

For instance, in my head Beta sounds pretty cool/badass. I'm like yeah shake it up, tell it how it is!

Delta sounds pretty lame, stagnant, and condescending

But irl, I know far more Deltas and I get along pretty swell with them even if there is this block where they lack a certain passion and modualization I'm looking for. Beta's on the other hand pressure me in a way that makes me feel on the spot.

And INFp's may sound like elegant sorcerous-princesses lol, but they have a cruel/vicious center that, once again, makes me uncomfortable.

[redbaron]

this is a funny thread. Okay so I agree with Mimosa's observations here. I was good friends with an SEI-Si guy for a couple of years and her descriptions fit us perfectly. Our Fe was great and fun but I'm more intense and he steered clear of any negative emotion. Everything to him was about comfort, either physical or psychological. In fact, I know for certain that he anesthetizes himself with tv and comfort food as well as things like crossword puzzles and sports. I know that sounds stereotypical and he's a 9 and totally conflict averse as well as a bit unhealthy. Anyway, there's tons I can say about this, but SEIs seem at home in their bodies, with themselves, almost all of the time. They have a grounded look to them, they live in the here and now. IEIs often have that spaced-out look. Like they're not paying attention to what's in front of their faces. When my SEI friend and I would talk, it was very enjoyable... for awhile and then I would get bored. SEIs are more "light", more apt to talk about the movie they're going to see this weekend. IEIs are a bit "heavier" maybe and more open to talking about negative feelings and facing them (this could also be an enneagram 9 thing) I'm not saying all SEIs are like him, so I hope no one takes offense, just that our relationship, to me, was a pretty interesting highlight of the differences there can be between those two types. Oh, you could also look at the individual's response to Ne and Se. See which they tend to look for. It was CLEAR that my SEI friend loved Ne. Whenever I would throw it out there, he gobbled it up. lol Likewise, whenever my SLE friend comes around, it's like I drop everything and magnetically follow him. haha Uncanny.

[Ezra]

this is a funny thread. Okay so I agree with Mimosa's observations here. I was good friends with an SEI-Si guy for a couple of years and her descriptions fit us perfectly. Our Fe was great and fun but I'm more intense and he steered clear of any negative emotion. Everything to him was about comfort, either physical or psychological. In fact, I know for certain that he anesthetizes himself with tv and comfort food as well as things like crossword puzzles and sports. I know that sounds stereotypical and he's a 9 and totally conflict averse as well as a bit unhealthy. Anyway, there's tons I can say about this, but SEIs seem at home in their bodies, with themselves, almost all of the time. They have a grounded look to them, they live in the here and now. IEIs often have that spaced-out look. Like they're not paying attention to what's in front of their faces. When my SEI friend and I would talk, it was very enjoyable... for awhile and then I would get bored. SEIs are more "light", more apt to talk about the movie they're going to see this weekend. IEIs are a bit "heavier" maybe and more open to talking about negative feelings and facing them (this could also be an enneagram 9 thing) I'm not saying all SEIs are like him, so I hope no one takes offense, just that our relationship, to me, was a pretty interesting highlight of the differences there can be between those two types. Oh, you could also look at the individual's response to Ne and Se. See which they tend to look for. It was CLEAR that my SEI friend loved Ne. Whenever I would throw it out there, he gobbled it up. lol Likewise, whenever my SLE friend comes around, it's like I drop everything and magnetically follow him. haha Uncanny.

Good stuff.

I'm seeing a pattern here from the responses. Essentially:

The IEI is spaced-out/not with it/on a different plane or dimension/seeing "beyond" while the SEI is aware of their immediate present environment.

The IEI is prone to "deeper" level discussion and thinking, while the SEI prefers light, chatty talk, and thinks on a far shallower scale.

SEIs tends to immerse themselves in not only the present moment, but in the feelings and atmosphere of the present moment. IEIs do not operate in this fashion; they are constantly thinking about what lies beyond now. The feelings (and often atmosphere) with which they concern themselves lie in other spatiotemporal realms.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hh.......

I guess that's true. Yeah. *shrug*.

[Ezra]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hh.......

I guess that's true. Yeah. *shrug*.

Waheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Satan]

this is a funny thread. Okay so I agree with Mimosa's observations here. I was good friends with an SEI-Si guy for a couple of years and her descriptions fit us perfectly. Our Fe was great and fun but I'm more intense and he steered clear of any negative emotion. Everything to him was about comfort, either physical or psychological. In fact, I know for certain that he anesthetizes himself with tv and comfort food as well as things like crossword puzzles and sports. I know that sounds stereotypical and he's a 9 and totally conflict averse as well as a bit unhealthy. Anyway, there's tons I can say about this, but SEIs seem at home in their bodies, with themselves, almost all of the time. They have a grounded look to them, they live in the here and now. IEIs often have that spaced-out look. Like they're not paying attention to what's in front of their faces. When my SEI friend and I would talk, it was very enjoyable... for awhile and then I would get bored. SEIs are more "light", more apt to talk about the movie they're going to see this weekend. IEIs are a bit "heavier" maybe and more open to talking about negative feelings and facing them (this could also be an enneagram 9 thing) I'm not saying all SEIs are like him, so I hope no one takes offense, just that our relationship, to me, was a pretty interesting highlight of the differences there can be between those two types. Oh, you could also look at the individual's response to Ne and Se. See which they tend to look for. It was CLEAR that my SEI friend loved Ne. Whenever I would throw it out there, he gobbled it up. lol Likewise, whenever my SLE friend comes around, it's like I drop everything and magnetically follow him. haha Uncanny.

you're easily-led.

[redbaron]

you're easily-led.

relatively, yes. On the inside I'm like a puppy dog blindly following the bone. But on the outside I try to maintain an appearance of not being that easy. haha Plus it's not like I'll follow just anyone. Has to be the forceful Se that knows what it wants and what it's doing.

[rahmyn]

I am trying to type my yoga teacher and I have narrowed it down to XEI-Fe. What are some things I should look for in observable behavior so that I can determine the lead function? Are there any common tell-tale signs that differentiate IEIs and SEIs? It's a little tricky for me because the Fe subtype easily comes to the fore and I am trying to see around it.

[Iris]

I am trying to type my yoga teacher and I have narrowed it down to XEI-Fe. What are some things I should look for in observable behavior so that I can determine the lead function? Are there any common tell-tale signs that differentiate IEIs and SEIs? It's a little tricky for me because the Fe subtype easily comes to the fore and I am trying to see around it.

SEIs have Ne for their suggestive function. They are energized by it. (ILE is their dual.) For IEIs, Ne is the ignoring function, so they will not especially value it, but still may have use of it. My SEI sister in law doesn't speak much, but quietly enjoys my brother's inventions and ideas and loves to visit new places with him. I think SEIs seem grounded, which ILEs benefit from. SEIs are caregivers. IEIs are victims. IEIs are a little more in their heads, it seems to me.

[silke]

Sensing vs Intuition:

If there is something that needs to be done, SEIs are more likely to get on it right away. In this they are similar to ESEs, as both have weak intuition of time, Ni, and don't feel confidence in postponing things. IEIs are more likely to delay and horribly procrastinate, then suddenly mobilize at the right (or last) moment, develop hyper-focus, and try to do everything in one sitting (and later feel tired/drained having to do so much work).In general, SEIs seem more "industrious" and more enterprising than IEIs, Alpha being the "democratic" +Ne valuing quadra. They have more confidence than IEIs when it comes to interacting with the physical world, and exhibit a better sense of measure and balance when estimating how much they need to do. In comparison IEIs try to minimize their contact with the physical world and get over their chores in wild spurs. Sometimes I even get the impression that SEIs keep track of time by the "material flow" of the reality.

SEIs are more of "taskmasters" than IEIs - sometimes they even seem to me as a kind of energetic mini-LSEs, which is certainly a type that SEIs look up to. The main reason for this is because SEIs, by virtue of their type, need to draw their ILE duals away from empty daydreams and conversations and "plug" them into work and activity, to get the ILEs to help them with organizing their life together. Even when the SEI is living with other types that don't need this kind of goading they will still periodically do this (according to their Si "program"). The SEI is both Se-ignoring and Te-polr, yet has +Si as the leading "program" function for their type. In the 'unhealthy' variant of SEI this combination leads to goading, teasing, and prodding other people (their partners, family members, children) to go out and face the reality out there, to get engaged in work, to keep generating possibilities for earnings and actively taking advantage of them, while the SEI him/herself leads a more leisurely lifestyle, checks out of reality, keeps as a perpetual student, stays unemployed or working part time, stays as a homemaker, prefers to stay in and work on his or her own hobbies, and ignore the external world. This is of course orientation to their ILE duals, but this Se/Te ignoring attitude does not work as well with other types.

The IEIs don't prod others to greater activity - they need this kind of nudging themselves with their weak sensing functions. IEIs being "aristocratic", Ni-base types tend to pay more attention to the "spiritual" content. IEI women usually play the role of counselors and psychologists to their family members, similar to other NFs, while minimizing any physical caretaking that they have to do, as this is incredibly draining for IEIs, which may result in trying to shift their work onto the shoulders of others.

SEIs are much better than IEIs at noticing if something is out of place, lacking, absent, incomplete. They will come up with tasks and mini-projects almost on the spot on how to improve or change things, for completion of which they try to recruit help of others. IEIs are generally more willing to let such things slide and not pay attention to the environment around them. Subconsciously and on the background such things do bother IEIs, since Si/Se are their unconscious functions, but any sensing distress signals tend to be too weak and vague for the IEI to figure out how to take care of them. The IEI usually responds by "blanking it out", distancing, tolerating poor conditions until a breaking point comes or until they are 'nudged' by other sensing types.

Knowing their own weaknesses in intuition and sensing, it happens that these types will try to imitate each other. The SEI plays a role of an kind of easy-going friendly person, who has no problems and doesn't get bogged down by anything serious like work, who is always interested an intellectual or cultural discussion, and carefully hides how much efforts his achievements have cost him. The IEI plays a role of a diligent and responsible person, who plans his budget, never overspends, and generally has his/her shit together. Of course, after long-term interaction it becomes clear that these are only masks that each type uses to "hide" their weak spots from other people.

Due to weak sensing, IEIs (and some Ni-EIEs) may feel like they can "see through" others instead of seeing the actual others. The look of Beta NF eyes seems diffuse, 'timeless', soft and scattered, often as if directed into the distance, skimming, or looking through things.
In contrast, Alpha SFs typically have a warm, soft, "immediate", considerate and somewhat "dense" look, that doesn't "look through things" or stare into the 'abstracted' distance, and instead attentively focuses on specific objects or people before the SEI.

Involutionary(Result) / Evolutionary(Process) trait:

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Left_and_right

IEIs are very interested in getting to the outcome/result they have envisioned within the shortest period of time. They don't enjoy the process of work itself as much as they enjoy reaching the outcome and moving on to the next thing. Thus IEIs have a tendency to hurry things up (in order to save on energy and time), which may manifest as cutting corners, omitting steps in instructions to speed up the pace, sometimes even being sloppy. (This kind of sloppiness repels the Ne-leading types.) SEIs, in contrast, are more taken in by the process of work itself. They immerse themselves into what they are doing, pay more attention to instructions and details, and generally make the impression of being more meticulous and diligent than IEIs. But at the same time it seems like their progress is slower and that they fall out of touch with the overall vision of their work, taking their time enjoying the trees while losing sight of the forest.

Declaring / Asking trait:

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t..._and_declaring

In discussions, SEI's tone sounds more solid and confident, with less questioning intonation than the tone of IEIs. SEIs sound more 'set' with what they want and what they believe, leaving little room for other statements (which sometimes leads them to conflict with SLEs who perceive such tone as a challenge). IEI's intonation seems more prostrated, uncertain, questioning, and open to suggestions from the outside. IEIs like clear, laconic, imperative statements and reasoning (that is delivered by two types: LII and SLE). Once certain conclusion is reached, the IEI prefers to move on instead of continuing to explore other options.

As a "judicious" type the SEI enjoys conversations, debates, and discussions. The IEI may participate in extensive, thorough discussions, but later they will feel somehow demotivated, disinterested, and frustrated if there's nothing more going on besides idle talk.

In conversations, if a SEI is referencing an external source, they are more likely to be accurate to the original source and state things literally as they were in the original. IEIs may deviate, because they have a strong "intuitive" tendency generalize and draw associations between various bits of information on basis of similarity. Thus, IEI's statements may seem a bit vague and muddled in comparison to detailed literalness of the SEI. In general, IEI arguing style resembles a chaotic whirlpool (for strong Fe subtypes especially) and in debates and conversations the IEI may suddenly loop back to previous topics, or change direction in a "zig-zag" fashion.

To fulfill their Ti Hidden Agenda, SEIs may provoke others into explaining things to them by teasing them with criticisms, making jest of their arguments, playfully testing their ability to rationally analyze things. In this way SEIs resemble their distant D-A cog cousins ILIs. IEIs, to the contrary, may impart the impression of know-it-alls by tightly grabbing onto some idea/conclusion/notion and defending it at all costs, but are hesitant to criticize others or provide explanations on the spot. IEIs also easily get "infected" by ideas that come from their beneficiaries LIIs, while SEIs are "tuned" to what their beneficiaries LSIs have to say.

SiFe vs NiFe:

For SEIs, Fe comes blocked together with a sensing element Si. This imparts certain differences to their emotional expressions and perceptions in comparison to IEIs, whose Fe is blocked with an intuitive element Ni.

SEIs are much more likely than Beta NFs to flatly comment on someone's physical appearance and traits, sometimes doing so in jest and irreverently from the point of view of "aristocratic" types. Having F and S elements blocked together, Alpha and Gamma SFs are inclined to evaluate someone by their concretely obvious traits: by their immediate facial expressions, gestures, mannerisms, body language, by the look in their eyes, appearance, etc. For the "aristocratic" Beta NFs this seems to be besides the point, if not downright distasteful. Beta NFs focus on the "general themes" and "sub-context" of conversations, and assess the potential, possibilities, and "positioning" of everything and everyone involved.

SEI emotional reactions come in "small, immediate portions" and correspond directly to the actual situation and the discrete moments that the SEI is living through (Fe+S). The SEI reads the emotion of others from the actual, in-the-moment statements (and in-the-moment facial expressions and body language if the SEI can see the person). If a person is signaling about their distress, the SEI is likely to offer immediate and specific to the situation help. In contrast, IEI's emotional reactions seem more diffuse and protracted, spread along the thematic culmination of the context in which the IEI finds him/herself (Fe+N), and thus sometimes too vague, general, and not quite corresponding to the actual situation. If a person is signaling of their distress, instead of providing specific and immediate help, the IEI is likely to provide their help by means of sharing certain philosophical outlook that would make it easier to cope with the situation, or providing psychological help to mend things in this situation that this person has found themselves in. Due to strong intuition, the IEI automatically generalizes any situation along with many other similar situations that have happened before, and then pays attention to the 'essence' of this situation or 'what it all means' rather than what is happening in the moment.

SEI "Process" vs. IEI "Result"

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...haracteristics

SEI's conversation style feels to be more explicit, sequential, and detailed than that of IEI's. IEI's expression style, in comparison, feels more scattered, underspoken, and incomplete. As a "Process" (Evolutionary) type, SEIs 'increase the informational complexity' of the conversation and prefer explicit detailed explanations. To contrast, IEIs as "Result" (Involutionary) types instead tend to speak in already made conclusions, preferring to skip how they got to them, and sometimes randomly looping back to previous points. Instead of adding complexity, IEIs tend to summarize, condense, and simplify.

Another 'social' effect of the "Process-Result" dichotomy that has been brought up in this article, is that SEI, as "Process(right)" type acts more friendly, receptive, and welcoming at large interpersonal distance - i.e. they put on their "best face" in social groups, when interacting with acquaintances and 'distant' social contacts'. However, as you get closer to a SEI, they start uncovering a more negative and dissatisfied side to themselves, and you'll get to hear about how this is not right or that is not right (with them or other people). Several socionics sources describe SEIs as essentially unhappy people who keep up a front of being carefree and without worries for others. With IEIs it's the opposite - at a distance the IEIs are more likely to present themselves as more 'edgy' and 'bitey', act irreverent, start arguments with others, get into mischief, but once you have managed to get close to an IEI they warm up and become more friendly and accepting.


SEI-IEI mistypings and 'stumbling blocks'

While typing, the following stumbling blocks should be kept in mind.

Si vs. Ni: Inability of many socionics practitioners to tell apart Si from Ni, fueled in part by absence of accurate descriptions of Si as an Ego element and the prevalence of biased and misconstrued "romanticizing" of Ni as an element of creativity, imagination, poetic and literally talent, etc. that appeals to many people over the 'motherly caretaking' associated with Si types. This is especially true to younger people their teens and early 20s, who struggle to identify with Si in its "caregiving" presentation and thus will prefer to type themselves as Ni.

SP Instinct: The descriptions of Enneagram's self-preservation (SP) instinct tightly overlap with descriptions of Socionics Si, which leads to a whole lot of confusion between the two. When a person has SP instinct as their last one, they don't give much attention and value to things like "comfort, convenience, looking after their health" and thus have difficulty in relating to descriptions of Si, even if they happen to be an Alpha or Delta type. This leads to SP-last people of Alpha and Delta types to mistype into Beta and Gamma, while SP-first people of Beta and Gamma types may wonder if they are really in Si quadra.

Appeal of Se: Se as valued information element gets presented in socionics as the epitome of bravery and courage, being able to stand up for yourself, being outgoing and well-adjusted to life, while Si is often portrayed as a being a homebody, being passive-aggressive, unadventurous, fearful and weak. This creates an incentive for Si types to type themselves as Se, particularly among males.

Observations of mistypes: In general, there are more (like 5x more) SEIs and ESEs mistyping themselves as IEIs and EIEs than it happens the other way around. The SEIs in particular seem to struggle making their way through socionics theory and reaching an understanding of types. At the end of their journey they seem to give up and go with some NF typing, as Si stereotypes seem too unappealing and inaccurate to them.

[Beautiful sky]

IEI notes people's vulnerable spots so that they can throw it in their faces without concern for the person's feelings, unlike SEI. This is because the IEI is good at playing the victim card.

[silke]

IEI notes people's vulnerable spots so that they can throw it in their faces without concern for the person's feelings, unlike SEI. This is because the IEI is good at playing the victim card.

meanwhile SEI simply smiles and feeds you with drugged up muffins

[Beautiful sky]

meanwhile SEI simply smiles and feeds you with drugged up muffins

exactly

[rahmyn]

IEI notes people's vulnerable spots so that they can throw it in their faces without concern for the person's feelings, unlike SEI. This is because the IEI is good at playing the victim card.

Didn't realize IEI's did this. I'll have to try it out.

Btw, how does taking note of others' vulnerable spots and throwing it in their faces have to do with IEIs playing the victim?

[Beautiful sky]

Didn't realize IEI's did this. I'll have to try it out.

Btw, how does taking note of others' vulnerable spots and throwing it in their faces have to do with IEIs playing the victim?

when you can play the victim, you can be mean and still look like you're a softy.

[Creepy-bg]

where can i get some of these muffins?

[silke]

where can i get some of these muffins?

all SEIs should be able to bake them

these are cupcakes but close enough: http://www.thecannabischef.com/conte...abis-cupcakes/

[wasp]

I wouldn't say IEIs are particularly philosophical, at least not overtly. I'm not sure where people get the idea that intuitives just run around all day spouting highly theoretical philosophical jargon without any real incentive to do so.

I've known IEIs with a wide circle of friends and others with a small circle of friends and casual (but friendly) acquaintances outside of said circle, but, social butterfly or not, they always give the impression of knowing all the right people. there's a sense of aristocracy there. in contrast, SEIs are less selective about who they allow into their inner circle, however, it's generally comprised of friendly and/or interesting people, which I think can be chalked up to their suggestive/dual-seeking functions. quality (IEI) vs quantity (SEI), in relation to friendships.

IEIs will start off cool and distant, like they're inaccessible, with an underlying intensity that sort of deters you from initiating contact with them, then they warm up over time. that is, unless you have something they want (ie power) then they'll stealthily weasel their way into your world. the reverse is true for SEIs, they don't quite cool off, it's more like their warmth is circumstantial. IEIs are more consistent once closer contact is established, like their movements are more purposeful. you'll spend less time with IEIs but your time with them will be more meaningful.

with IEIs, it's, "we used to be close but I haven't seen/spoken to her in a while"
with SEIs, it's, "she was nice to me but now she's not"

both types have malleable characters, IEIs are "corrupted" by power, whereas SEIs seem kind of snobbish and standoffish once they rise in popularity. I've known SEIs to take on the values of the group and snap at people they see as disturbing the harmony of said group, IEIs tend to stay out of it unless it affects them directly, and even then they may back off if they don't see a point in it (or there's a chance they'll lose)

as for how Ti HA manifests in these two types, SEIs tend to hold strong views about pretty mundane shit, like, "why are models so skinny???" (social/societal) whereas IEIs are more like, "why the fuck is America invading the Middle East... AGAIN?!" (global)

VS

you find out SEIs are crazy pretty early on, but it takes years before you realize just how fucking insane IEIs are.

[Bertrand]

I wouldn't say IEIs are particularly philosophical, at least not overtly. I'm not sure where people get the idea that intuitives just run around all day spouting highly theoretical philosophical jargon without any real incentive to do so

likewise I feel like plenty of sensors get into philosophy and do spout theoretical jargon all day... I feel like that perception is something that really needs to change