rick has katherine hepburn and spencer tracy typed as IEE-SLI pair.
i don't know a thing about either of them.
rick has katherine hepburn and spencer tracy typed as IEE-SLI pair.
i don't know a thing about either of them.
More ENTjs
Orlando Bloom
Ioan Gruffudd
(Compare with Peter Sellers ~ there ya go, the projected Pink Panther - an ENTj caricature.)
And as asserted on www.socionics.com, I affirm
Robert Downey Jr.
And even though he was proposed as ENTp on another site, the following fellow v.i.'s just like two people I've known well for years in terms of eyes and facial expressions more than physical features. One tests ENTj, the other ESTj - and they both very well could be ENTj, as both manifest ENTj behavior. This celeb does NOT v.i. like the ENTp's I've known, who clearly test so and manifest clear ENTp behavior. So I'll risk the suggestion ... here he is!!!
Jeff Goldblum
[hr:3844817935]
Mmmmm, now THERE's a zesty little list.
More ENTjs
Orlando Bloom
Ioan Gruffudd
(Compare with Peter Sellers ~ there ya go, the projected Pink Panther - an ENTj caricature.)
And as asserted on www.socionics.com, I affirm
Robert Downey Jr.
And even though he was proposed as ENTp on another site, the following fellow v.i.'s just like two people I've known well for years in terms of eyes and facial expressions more than physical features. One tests ENTj, the other ESTj - and they both very well could be ENTj, as both manifest ENTj behavior. This celeb does NOT v.i. like the ENTp's I've known, who clearly test so and manifest clear ENTp behavior. So I'll risk the suggestion ... here he is!!!
Jeff Goldblum
[hr:3844817935]
Mmmmm, now THERE's a zesty little list.
Yes Katherine Hepburn! She looks exactly like an ENTj teacher I had in high school. Good typing.
I agree on Goldblum, too. He looks like another ENTj professor I've recently took a class of.
Orlando Bloom always had an F vibe to me.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yes Katherine Hepburn! She looks exactly like an ENTj teacher I had in high school. Good typing.
I agree on Goldblum, too. He looks like another ENTj professor I've recently took a class of.
Orlando Bloom always had an F vibe to me.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
no joke! she really does have quite the look.Originally Posted by FDG
i'm really quite impressed with some of your typings so far (i especially like that you have included so many male ESFps/female ENTjs. this is one thing that i think has been missing from this site--people are too quick to put the F=female, T=male category on everyone, especially tricky in gamma sometimes.) actually very interested in seeing what you come up with in the INTp section. :wink:
no joke! she really does have quite the look.Originally Posted by FDG
i'm really quite impressed with some of your typings so far (i especially like that you have included so many male ESFps/female ENTjs. this is one thing that i think has been missing from this site--people are too quick to put the F=female, T=male category on everyone, especially tricky in gamma sometimes.) actually very interested in seeing what you come up with in the INTp section. :wink:
Come on implied, look at the number of male ESFps I included in my thread. As for female ENTjs, I have more difficulty spotting them but I also included a few here.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Come on implied, look at the number of male ESFps I included in my thread. As for female ENTjs, I have more difficulty spotting them but I also included a few here.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
you do, as well! and i do appreciate your efforts. i really do just think it's difficult to do since the F/T line blurs so much with ISXjs and ENXjs (like segolene royal and how a few people thought she might be ISFj based on god knows what, the fact that she isn't super masculine?) i just think an ISTj woman would be perceivably more -ish, like an ENFj almost, and would probably take on that role somewhat, which seems easy to explain. same thing with jodie foster and the "why isn't she ISFj?" bits. reading a bit about her made ENTj more likely than ISFj, although she's still quite feminine and what not.Originally Posted by Expat
you do, as well! and i do appreciate your efforts. i really do just think it's difficult to do since the F/T line blurs so much with ISXjs and ENXjs (like segolene royal and how a few people thought she might be ISFj based on god knows what, the fact that she isn't super masculine?) i just think an ISTj woman would be perceivably more -ish, like an ENFj almost, and would probably take on that role somewhat, which seems easy to explain. same thing with jodie foster and the "why isn't she ISFj?" bits. reading a bit about her made ENTj more likely than ISFj, although she's still quite feminine and what not.Originally Posted by Expat
I have to say that astrasilky is really good at VI-ing people.
I have to say that astrasilky is really good at VI-ing people.
Thank you for your confirmations, guys! (Eunice, too!) It's very encouraging. I've studied this a lot, but on my own, without much outside validation 'til now.Originally Posted by implied
I totally agree - especially for other sites - hence, my attempts thus far.Originally Posted by implied
:wink:Originally Posted by implied
Yeah, that one meandered and needs some actual INTp additions. I've started a new one. Working on more suggestions. But I need to cross-check 'em using some quirky homegrown methods I've developed and refined over time. And watch even more movies and TV for input - sigh - (things I rarely do). It's hard to comment on some others contributions when I don't even know who in the heck many of these people are.
Thank you for your confirmations, guys! (Eunice, too!) It's very encouraging. I've studied this a lot, but on my own, without much outside validation 'til now.Originally Posted by implied
I totally agree - especially for other sites - hence, my attempts thus far.Originally Posted by implied
:wink:Originally Posted by implied
Yeah, that one meandered and needs some actual INTp additions. I've started a new one. Working on more suggestions. But I need to cross-check 'em using some quirky homegrown methods I've developed and refined over time. And watch even more movies and TV for input - sigh - (things I rarely do). It's hard to comment on some others contributions when I don't even know who in the heck many of these people are.
why would you need to know who we are to evaluate our contributions?Originally Posted by astralsilky
or are you referring to the people being typed...?
why would you need to know who we are to evaluate our contributions?Originally Posted by astralsilky
or are you referring to the people being typed...?
I disagree. Appearance = reality.Originally Posted by Expat
Wouldn't he have to be some Fe type?Originally Posted by misutii
Not really Fe Role. Sounds like he valued Fe - I'll go with ENFj.Originally Posted by wiki
I disagree. Appearance = reality.Originally Posted by Expat
Wouldn't he have to be some Fe type?Originally Posted by misutii
Not really Fe Role. Sounds like he valued Fe - I'll go with ENFj.Originally Posted by wiki
I really, really doubt that Kate Moss is ENTj. I think INFp is likely.
That's a very sweeping statement, I can't agree with it.Originally Posted by thehotelambush
I really don't think ENTj is the best type for Newton.Originally Posted by misutii
1) Your point about Caesar being more concerned about his reputation than with efficiency is not borne out by historical evidenceOriginally Posted by misutii
2) He did not "get away" with breaking traditions - he was murdered for that; and that is really not an argument for ESFp>ENTj.
I am extremely familiar with Roman history, and that is why I see that he was more likely ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
A devotion to duty may be Ti or Fi, depending on the motivations for said duty. In Augustus's case, it was about destroying Caesar's murderers. He also banished his own daughter Julia - his only child - for adultery, as well as, later, Julia's daughter, for the same reason. That is more Fi than Ti. The Ti = duty is more of a ISTj Fi role thing.Originally Posted by misutii
He was often sea-sick. Not type related.Originally Posted by misutii
That was Antony's political weak point. What does that have to do with being INTj instead of ENTj?Originally Posted by misutii
Same question - what does that have to do with being INTj instead of ENTj? That theatrical behavior - if reported correctly - does not sound ENTj, but neither does it sound INTj. As for not attempting to reconquer Germania, he had lost 3 legions and decided that, strategically, it made no sense. So why is that an argument for INTj and against ENTj?Originally Posted by misutii
Same question - do you think that ENTjs would praise recklessness?Originally Posted by misutii
Being a judge was part of his job description; his focus on the family morals could be seen as either Ti or Fi.Originally Posted by misutii
That sounds like a dislike for Fe, which is an argument for ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
Which is a Fi>Fe characteristic, especially Fe role, and also characteristic of ENTjs and actually of the Gamma quadra generally (ESFps make acquaintances easily, not necessarily friends).Originally Posted by misutii
A lot of ENTjs are adverse to physical activity, and Augustus was physically fragile. Also, that was a political insult, not necessarily how most people perceived him.Originally Posted by misutii
Which shows little regard for Si and Fe. Excellent argument for ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
It can be interpreted in many ways.Originally Posted by misutii
Again, that is an excellent point for ENTj, little concern for Si and Fe. As for your comment on "extroverts", you are going for MBTI definition of "extroversion", not Socionics. ENTjs dislike Fe social occasions.Originally Posted by misutii
First, this is incorrect since he did expand the empire -- a lot. Second, to realize that expansion should stop can be Se, or Te, or lots of other things.Originally Posted by misutii
Yes and all of that suggests Fi of the Gamma sort. Again ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
In a public figure, expected to appear personally in the Senate etc, it's not easy to hide sickliness.Originally Posted by misutii
No, I mentioned that because someone said that he disliked giving speeches, acted behind the scenes, etc. I was just disproving that point. It's not necessarily an argument for ENTj as such.Originally Posted by misutii
Then let's go to Tacitus instead:Originally Posted by misutii
13.3 : The dictator Caesar rivalled the greatest orators, and Augustus had an easy and fluent way of speaking, such as became a sovereign. Tiberius too thoroughly understood the art of balancing words, and was sometimes forcible in the expression of his thoughts, or else intentionally obscure. Even Caius Caesar's disordered intellect did not wholly mar his faculty of speech. Nor did Claudius, when he spoke with preparation, lack elegance.
Anyway, Bill Gates is ENTj and he does not have particularly good public speaking skills, so it's not really an useful discussion.
Then I suggest that revise your understanding of what an ENTj is, such as the notion that ENTjs are necessarily "extroverted" in the social-outgoing definition as in MBTI.Originally Posted by misutii
Louis XIV: That guy was all Fe and Se with zero Ni. Nothing at all ENTj about him. No ENTj, I daresay, would have built Versailles and set up a system where he had to get up, and go to sleep, at precisely the same hour every day, and have his meals in public.
What makes ENTj a likely type for Augustus, much more so than those individual traits you listed, is the following global charateristics:
- he always took a long-term vision in pursuing his goals, which he did relentlessly - that's a Ni-Se quadra value
- his marriage to Livia is a typical description of ENTj-ISFj marriage - even that people gossiped that she ordered him around, and was seen as a stern and strong-willed figure
- his motivations in destroying his enemies, avenging Caesar's murder, and punishing his own daughter, are all Gamma Fi
- his dislike for obvious flattery and excessive socializing indicate low regard for Fe, so again Gamma
- he acted very proactively in everything, which is a characteristic of EJ temperament
etc etc
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I really, really doubt that Kate Moss is ENTj. I think INFp is likely.
That's a very sweeping statement, I can't agree with it.Originally Posted by thehotelambush
I really don't think ENTj is the best type for Newton.Originally Posted by misutii
1) Your point about Caesar being more concerned about his reputation than with efficiency is not borne out by historical evidenceOriginally Posted by misutii
2) He did not "get away" with breaking traditions - he was murdered for that; and that is really not an argument for ESFp>ENTj.
I am extremely familiar with Roman history, and that is why I see that he was more likely ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
A devotion to duty may be Ti or Fi, depending on the motivations for said duty. In Augustus's case, it was about destroying Caesar's murderers. He also banished his own daughter Julia - his only child - for adultery, as well as, later, Julia's daughter, for the same reason. That is more Fi than Ti. The Ti = duty is more of a ISTj Fi role thing.Originally Posted by misutii
He was often sea-sick. Not type related.Originally Posted by misutii
That was Antony's political weak point. What does that have to do with being INTj instead of ENTj?Originally Posted by misutii
Same question - what does that have to do with being INTj instead of ENTj? That theatrical behavior - if reported correctly - does not sound ENTj, but neither does it sound INTj. As for not attempting to reconquer Germania, he had lost 3 legions and decided that, strategically, it made no sense. So why is that an argument for INTj and against ENTj?Originally Posted by misutii
Same question - do you think that ENTjs would praise recklessness?Originally Posted by misutii
Being a judge was part of his job description; his focus on the family morals could be seen as either Ti or Fi.Originally Posted by misutii
That sounds like a dislike for Fe, which is an argument for ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
Which is a Fi>Fe characteristic, especially Fe role, and also characteristic of ENTjs and actually of the Gamma quadra generally (ESFps make acquaintances easily, not necessarily friends).Originally Posted by misutii
A lot of ENTjs are adverse to physical activity, and Augustus was physically fragile. Also, that was a political insult, not necessarily how most people perceived him.Originally Posted by misutii
Which shows little regard for Si and Fe. Excellent argument for ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
It can be interpreted in many ways.Originally Posted by misutii
Again, that is an excellent point for ENTj, little concern for Si and Fe. As for your comment on "extroverts", you are going for MBTI definition of "extroversion", not Socionics. ENTjs dislike Fe social occasions.Originally Posted by misutii
First, this is incorrect since he did expand the empire -- a lot. Second, to realize that expansion should stop can be Se, or Te, or lots of other things.Originally Posted by misutii
Yes and all of that suggests Fi of the Gamma sort. Again ENTj.Originally Posted by misutii
In a public figure, expected to appear personally in the Senate etc, it's not easy to hide sickliness.Originally Posted by misutii
No, I mentioned that because someone said that he disliked giving speeches, acted behind the scenes, etc. I was just disproving that point. It's not necessarily an argument for ENTj as such.Originally Posted by misutii
Then let's go to Tacitus instead:Originally Posted by misutii
13.3 : The dictator Caesar rivalled the greatest orators, and Augustus had an easy and fluent way of speaking, such as became a sovereign. Tiberius too thoroughly understood the art of balancing words, and was sometimes forcible in the expression of his thoughts, or else intentionally obscure. Even Caius Caesar's disordered intellect did not wholly mar his faculty of speech. Nor did Claudius, when he spoke with preparation, lack elegance.
Anyway, Bill Gates is ENTj and he does not have particularly good public speaking skills, so it's not really an useful discussion.
Then I suggest that revise your understanding of what an ENTj is, such as the notion that ENTjs are necessarily "extroverted" in the social-outgoing definition as in MBTI.Originally Posted by misutii
Louis XIV: That guy was all Fe and Se with zero Ni. Nothing at all ENTj about him. No ENTj, I daresay, would have built Versailles and set up a system where he had to get up, and go to sleep, at precisely the same hour every day, and have his meals in public.
What makes ENTj a likely type for Augustus, much more so than those individual traits you listed, is the following global charateristics:
- he always took a long-term vision in pursuing his goals, which he did relentlessly - that's a Ni-Se quadra value
- his marriage to Livia is a typical description of ENTj-ISFj marriage - even that people gossiped that she ordered him around, and was seen as a stern and strong-willed figure
- his motivations in destroying his enemies, avenging Caesar's murder, and punishing his own daughter, are all Gamma Fi
- his dislike for obvious flattery and excessive socializing indicate low regard for Fe, so again Gamma
- he acted very proactively in everything, which is a characteristic of EJ temperament
etc etc
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
That makes more sense, but the problem with ENFj is that Louis XIV loved a very routine, preset daily schedule, and he loved getting involved in every possible detail of government. ISTj makes more sense than ENFj.Originally Posted by thehotelambush
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
That makes more sense, but the problem with ENFj is that Louis XIV loved a very routine, preset daily schedule, and he loved getting involved in every possible detail of government. ISTj makes more sense than ENFj.Originally Posted by thehotelambush
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
King Hussein of Jordan
Longer-term strategic vision. Fairly benevolent monarch, concerned with economic development (without any oil), but ruthless on occasion. Accessible and "democratic" on a person-to-person level, also enjoyed traveling incognito in Europe. According to Wikipedia, liked to do a Dr. Evil impersonation when in meetings with military contractors (emotivist). Had what seemed to be a dual marriage with Queen Noor, who seems ISFj.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
George Romero, creator of the Night of the Living Dead movies
I think ENTj makes perfect sense, although not without some problems.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I appear EJ to a lot of people but I'm not EJ.Originally Posted by thehotelambush
Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship
Prove it.Originally Posted by stevENTj
Camille Paglia
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Nooo she has no logicOriginally Posted by Expat
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
She has lots of Te.Originally Posted by FDG
Ok, which type would you suggest?
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
ENFj!Originally Posted by Expat
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Simon Schama, some historian dude
Jeffrey Archer, disgraced peer and novelist .
Improving your happiness and changing your personality for the better
Jungian theory is not grounded in empirical data (pdf file)
The case against type dynamics (pdf file)
Cautionary comments regarding the MBTI (pdf file)
Reinterpreting the MBTI via the five-factor model (pdf file)
Do the Big Five personality traits interact to predict life outcomes? (pdf file)
The Big Five personality test outperformed the Jungian and Enneagram test in predicting life outcomes
Evidence of correlations between human partners based on systematic reviews and meta-analyses of traits
I feel silly for doing this, but upon further consideration:
C.S. Lewis
Interesting.Originally Posted by discojoe
Ok, that could make sense for Camille Paglia, but I'm still not sure where you see "no logic". Perhaps not from the Ti PoV, but she argues her points with Te and not Fe. Her criticism of Ann Coulter, for instance, is not about Coulter being ideologically wrong or saying wrong things or just being "in for the money" or whatever -- Paglia criticizes Coulter for not making her cases solidly enough in her books and being to careless with facts. Te confidence.Originally Posted by FDG
On Simon Schama: I can see that, although I tended to see INTp (but I've never seen him on video, I have to try it). One of his early books, on the French Revolution, Citizens, is essentially a Te-Ni view of the Revolution -- he doesn't give a shit about the "ideological purity"; he remarks how the French monarchy under Louis XVI was already reforming before the revolution; and his "heros" seem to be guys like Turgot (ENTj imo) who were trying to solve the economic issues.
Jeffrey Archer: could be.
CS Lewis: why?
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Uhm, I guess I was referring to other instance, for example when she arguments the basic differences between the man's nature (rationality) and the woman's nature (irrationality) and how men overtook society and placed rationality as its foundation in order to subtly oppress women via the logical implication if women are irrational, if we repress irrationality we will indirectly repress them; I know at least 2 INFps that take this stance of her very seriously and try to propagate it; in my opinion, the societal rationality Paglia speaks about is a representation of Te, and the irrationality is Fe, not Ti and Fi.Originally Posted by Expat
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Ah. I think her views of man's and woman's natures and their influences on society are more complicated than that, but for typing her I focused not on particular theories but on interviews and articles on ongoing events. Anyway, yes, her "irrationality" would be more Fe, which goes against ENFj since, despite being a woman, she actually likes the "male" Te rationality.Originally Posted by FDG
Anyway, I'm a bit biased because I had a brief e-mail exchange ages ago on the emperor Diocletian with her
Here are some cases for ENTj:
Originally Posted by Camille PagliaOriginally Posted by wikipedia
Originally Posted by Camille Paglia
I'll stick with Ni-ENTj for the moment
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
god, same idea on paglia. i nearly suggested her to you in an PM, expat. have always loved her!
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
And she loves me -- she called my comments on longer-term trends in the Roman Empire "a lucid overview".Originally Posted by implied
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I don't know--it's just what I FEEL. Go here and read some quotes, and you might FEEL it too.Originally Posted by Expat
Originally Posted by Clive Staples LewisOriginally Posted by Clive Staples LewisOriginally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis
Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis
Originally Posted by Clive Staples LewisOriginally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis
You can almost hear Jor'El saying these lines.Originally Posted by Clive Staples Lewis
Also, Lewis was a very LOUD person who went to a pub every Tuesday with Tolkien and SHOUTED AT HIM until he was thrown out into the street.