Failed Dual Relationships

[eliphalet]

Socionics makes duality seem as though it's infallible... Anyone know of a dual relationship that didn't work out in the long run? What was the reason for this, and how was it afterwards?

What about duals that hate each other?

[Joy]

There are many, many ways that people can be compatible or incompatible. Socionics doesn't take into account cultural, intelligence, personality, physical, lifestyle, etc. matters.

[eliphalet]

Well sure yeah, but got any real life examples?

[Kim]

Socionics makes duality seem as though it's infallible... Anyone know of a dual relationship that didn't work out in the long run? What was the reason for this, and how was it afterwards?

What about duals that hate each other?

I was with my dual for 6 years, lived with him for three years and it didn't work out. There was never really a spark. We were more like very good friends and very comfortable around each other (our relationship sounds like the duality descriptions). But he wanted more stability than I wanted. We broke up because our career plans did not allow us to be in one place and he was sick of long distance. He ended up meeting someone else and broke up, but by that time it was already over, pretty much.

We have sporadic friendly contact through e-mail.

[vague]

I work with an ESTp. We mutually despise each other. I attempted to offer him advice on how to do his job at work since he was new and rather incompetent. This automatically put me on his bad side [I guess he interpreted it as me trying to order him around?]. Anyway, he reacted to my advice by telling me to take it to the boss if I had a problem because I was in no position to judge. Also, when he would finish his tasks, he would take over mine as if to imply that I was the incompetent one. I paid no attention to this behavior and did not respond to it. Eventually we began to talk and got along quite well for a while. However, whenever we would get into arguments at work, he would attempt to get me fired by complaining to the boss about my incompetence as well as attempt to defame my character by sharing personal information I had shared with him when we were on good terms. [it wasn't exactly horrible information but he exaggerated to make it seem worse than it was.].

I have casually dated an ESTp that did not work out because he was far too possessive and clingy. Two traits that I absolutely cannot tolerate.

These are the exceptions though, I generally get along well with ESTps.

[FDG]

I have casually dated an ESTp that did not work out because he was far too possessive and clingy. Two traits that I absolutely cannot tolerate.

I'm afraid the first one of the two is rather widespread in the ESTp population, unless suppressed (with consequent blowups of anger).

In any case, as far as the original post goes - yeah, there are many around. I've seen mostly ExTp-IxFp, though, easily break up. Motivation, the usual ExTp tendency towards possesivness. I think I have also seen an ENFp-ISTp relationship slowly dieing because of "lack of things to do".

Oh. Some INFps are too preoccupied about what people thinks of them, about the opinion of their friends about a given thing etc etc - that can kind of piss me off but it's not that widespread.

[Kristiina]

It seems that dual relationships have the same flaw as is their strength - duals are extremely comfortable with each other. It's good that there's no discomfort, but the relationship can get dull.

[Expat]

In work situations, as vague described, other factors are at play and duality may well not work. I have witnessed a bitter power fight in my company between an ISTj and an ENFj, and they ended up hating each other.

A former poster, Louise (ISFj), in a thread deleted during the forum defacement, once described her work relationship with her ENTj boss, and it hadn 't worked very well, either (but not with hatred).

I usually get along great with ISFjs - I can't remember a case where it was negative. When it didn't work out in romantic relationships, it was due to external circumstances, or so it seems to me (with dual-seeking you're never sure).

[raisonpure]

Possessive and clingy in what ways, vague?

Through my interactions with an ENFj friend, I discovered that I have a hidden penchant for possessiveness, though not the sort that demands that I stay up to continue talking when I need to sleep. Actually, I've broken off relations with two ENTps because they were too needy, and I couldn't provide them with the affection that they needed. I also have a strong aversion to requests for verbal reassurance -- questions like "DID YOU MISS ME?", "DO YOU LOVE ME?", and "CAN YOU WRITE ME A LOVE LETTER?" not only annoy me, but also guarantee insulting responses. So I'd most likely adore possessiveness as long as I only have to provide my company at reasonable moments, and don't have to do anything beyond that. Is that what you meant?

According to the article "finding subtype by sexual behaviour", I need an Se subtype. However, my interactions with Ti subtypes have been more favourable in my limited experience of duality -- I find it easier to trust and let my guard down around them, so there's a better chance of friendship, though there's less attraction. My interactions with Se subtypes, on the other hand, has bordered on conflict. While I was teaching one, I broke down into tears twice because his open criticism and disrespect crushed my self-esteem. I hated him for the power he had over me; for his ability to evoke unwanted emotions in me that I tried so hard to suppress. But the sizzling attraction has reared its ugly head again now that I no longer have to exercise authority over him, and he's been taking charge for me instead. It's like I'm caught in the same psychological game that Dominique was in The Fountainhead: I'm in danger of being pounced by someone I don't know, don't trust, and even resent; what's worse, I'm afraid that I will eventually throw myself at him

As I've been losing control over my lifestyle, the feeling that he can provide me with what my ESTj teacher cannot has become more and more acute. Yesterday, I was so tired that I felt like I was watching a TV show while some new acquaintances were entertaining me. I tried slapping myself a couple of times to get rid of the feeling, but still there was not enough force to snap me out of it -- and no, I am not suicidal. Tonight, I felt so drained that I couldn't eat, talk, or study. I could only focus on the thought that I would wither away if I didn't break free from my mundane existence, somehow. And I wished he was there, for he is brimming with the force that I need in order to break out from the rut that I have fallen into; so real that I can't help being conscious of him -- and of myself, when I am in the vicinity of his concrete influence. When I last saw him, I ran away from him because I was flooded by images of being chased down and so on And even though I dread what he could do to me, a part of me is thrilled by the possibilities -- completely defying the values that my self-knowledge is found on

So, even though duality appeared disastrous when circumstances forced me to attempt subordination with bad Se and Ti -- which made me feel like a fool -- things have been improving now that I can focus on my strengths instead of my weaknesses.

[Not A Communist Shill]

The ESFj that I really knew and got on with gradually drifted away from me - I felt unable to intervene in her social commitments, of which she had many - I didn't mind not being the centre of attention, partly because I didn't need it (though maybe I did ) and partly because we knew that our relationship was 'special' in the sense we really got on with each other. All her contacts were part of this crowd who were all dressing the same way, smoking the same stuff, piercing the same stuff , and I guess my failure to participate seems like a perfectly natural split - I didn't need or want to dress 'that way', and she probably felt her obligations were elsewhere. (The song 'Disco 2000' by Pulp is a good example of a INTx-ESFx relationship that never happened ).

Well we were born within one hour of each other.
Our mothers said we could be sister and brother.
Your name is Deborah, Deborah.
It never suited ya.
Oh they thought that when we grew up,
we'd get married, and never split up.
We never did it, although often I thought of it.

Oh Deborah, do you recall?
Your house was very small,
with wood chip on the wall.
When I came around to call,
you didn't notice me at all.

I said let's all meet up in the year 2000.
Won't it be strange when we're all fully grown.
Be there at 2 o'clock by the fountain down the road.
I never knew that you'd get married.
I would be living down here on my own on
that damp and lonely Thursday years ago.

You were the first girl at school to get breasts.
Martyn said that you were the best.
The boys all loved you but I was a mess.
I had to watch them trying to get you undressed.
We were friends but that was as far as it went.
I used to walk you home sometimes but it meant,
oh it meant nothing to you,
cos you were so - popular.

Deborah do you recall?
Your house was very small,
with woodchip on the wall.
When I came around to call,
you didn't notice me at all.

I said let's all meet up in the year 2000.
Won't it be strange when we're all fully grown.
Be there at 2 o'clock by the fountain down the road.
I never knew that you'd get married.
I would be living down here on my own
on that damp and lonely Thursday years ago.

Oh yeah,
oh yeah.

Ah do you recall?
Your house was very small,
with wood chip on the wall.
When I came around to call,
you didn't notice me at all.

I said let's all meet up in the year 2000.
Won't it be strange when we're all fully grown.
Be there at 2 o'clock by the fountain down the road.
I never knew that you'd get married.
I would be living down here on my own,
on that damp and lonely Thursday years ago.
Oh what are you doing Sunday baby.
Would you like to come and meet me maybe?
You can even bring your baby.
Ohhh ooh ooh. Ooh ooh ooh ooh.
What are you doing Sunday baby.
Would you like to come and meet me maybe?
You can even bring your baby.
Ooh ooh oh. Ooh ooh ooh ooh. Ooh ooh ooh ooh. Oh.

[machintruc]

A former poster, Louise (ISFj), in a thread deleted during the forum defacement, once described her work relationship with her ENTj boss, and it hadn 't worked very well, either (but not with hatred).

Rick said dual relations do not work well with such relations.

http://www.socionics.us/intro/limitations.shtml#1

[Blaze]

wish i could respond to this. i can't see my dual, anywhere. i think they don't run in the same circles as i do or something.

[FDG]

questions like "DID YOU MISS ME?", "DO YOU LOVE ME?", and "CAN YOU WRITE ME A LOVE LETTER?"

This is gross, grossssss.

And I wished he was there, for he is brimming with the force that I need in order to break out from the rut that I have fallen into; so real that I can't help being conscious of him -- and of myself, when I am in the vicinity of his concrete influence. When I last saw him, I ran away from him because I was flooded by images of being chased down and so on And even though I dread what he could do to me, a part of me is thrilled by the possibilities -- completely defying the values that my self-knowledge is found on

Is this the guy that squirms his legs for minutes when sitting?

[raisonpure]

questions like "DID YOU MISS ME?", "DO YOU LOVE ME?", and "CAN YOU WRITE ME A LOVE LETTER?"

This is gross, grossssss.

Prithee do not turn into this

This is coming from an ESFj who somehow confuses me for an INTj, and persistently complains about my insufficient reciprocation to her "passion". I seem to have doused so much of her passion that a stranger once asked "why are the two of you so cold?", even. I don't mind the babying, but her habitual ploys to extract responses from me can get exhausting -- especially now that I can tell when she's using on me, and others. It's puzzling how she's so insecure about the way I feel towards her, and needs constant verbal and emotional feedback for assurance.

embarrassing confession

Is this the guy that squirms his legs for minutes when sitting?

Yes. Fortunately, I've recovered my composure again after escaping to another city. The ESTp motto "absence lessens the fondness of the heart" sure has its uses.

[Rick]

A former poster, Louise (ISFj), in a thread deleted during the forum defacement, once described her work relationship with her ENTj boss, and it hadn 't worked very well, either (but not with hatred).

Rick said dual relations do not work well with such relations.

http://www.socionics.us/intro/limitations.shtml#1

You're misquoting me. I wrote:

"status in hierarchies: lines of command do not allow informal, spontaneous interaction to develop among people of different status in the hierarchy. For example, dual relations are not likely to develop completely if one partner is the other's boss. "

[Jarno]

my failed dual relationships consist of somebody who i worked with. We were super friends, but she was married so that makes things already a bit complicated.

the other one, was a girl to which i was absolutely not attracted to, except for the time i drunk 10 beers in two hours...
although i could feel the dual feeling settle in, it was the non-attraction that kept me from becoming more than just friends.

[Jarno]

It seems that dual relationships have the same flaw as is their strength - duals are extremely comfortable with each other. It's good that there's no discomfort, but the relationship can get dull.

dull ??

don't you mean identical relations. they have complete understanding and can become dull quickly.



dual are the least dull.

[jelly grass]

it gets dull because you get along so well.
for me, mine ended because well.. the sparks went away :/

[Elizabeth]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

At first the break-up wasn't too difficult because it ended very nicely, if that's possible with a break-up. Now, nearly 2 months after, I'm really starting to miss him.

[FDG]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

What a fucking real piece of an asshole

[implied]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

What a fucking real piece of an asshole

no joke. i agree.

[FDG]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

What a fucking real piece of an asshole

no joke. i agree.

I mean if you are with a girl it's because you find her at the given time the most overall attractive one in my opinion. Liz, if i recall from the pic, the guy wasn't even too attractive, why didn't you spit in his mouth?

[meatburger]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

What a fucking real piece of an asshole

no joke. i agree.

I mean if you are with a girl it's because you find her at the given time the most overall attractive one in my opinion. Liz, if i recall from the pic, the guy wasn't even too attractive, why didn't you spit in his mouth?

Yeah hes a tool. Hopefully his life goes down the gurgler and you get a real stud. Then he has to sleep in your garage because hes a vagrant. Then you can make love to your new boyfriend really loudly to torment him

[Blaze]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

What a fucking real piece of an asshole

no joke. i agree.

I mean if you are with a girl it's because you find her at the given time the most overall attractive one in my opinion. Liz, if i recall from the pic, the guy wasn't even too attractive, why didn't you spit in his mouth?

Yeah hes a tool. Hopefully his life goes down the gurgler and you get a real stud. Then he has to sleep in your garage because hes a vagrant. Then you can make love to your new boyfriend really loudly to torment him

LOL good one

[Expat]

Yeah hes a tool. Hopefully his life goes down the gurgler and you get a real stud. Then he has to sleep in your garage because hes a vagrant. Then you can make love to your new boyfriend really loudly to torment him

Actually that's exactly the kind of stuff that Sacher-Masoch (he of masochism) used to set up to get his kicks --

Elizabeth's attractive, the guy was just being stupid.

[UDP]

it gets dull because you get along so well.
for me, mine ended because well.. the sparks went away :/

Are you sure he was your dual? The whole point of the ISFp ENTp relationship is to not be boring, you are both irrationals.

[ESTP]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

Sounds pretty irrational to me. I dont believe in karma...but it definitly comes back to bite you in the ass. I agree with FDG...why didn't you spit in his mouth??

[Jarno]

it gets dull because you get along so well.
for me, mine ended because well.. the sparks went away :/

Are you sure he was your dual? The whole point of the ISFp ENTp relationship is to not be boring, you are both irrationals.

exactly. dual relations are said to be the least dull. so if you find your dual dull well, then you're hoping for something that doesn't exist.

[meatburger]

it gets dull because you get along so well.
for me, mine ended because well.. the sparks went away :/

Are you sure he was your dual? The whole point of the ISFp ENTp relationship is to not be boring, you are both irrationals.

exactly. dual relations are said to be the least dull. so if you find your dual dull well, then you're hoping for something that doesn't exist.

nah dude i actually agree that dual relations are often dull. Around ISTp's im actually a lot less exciting than with other people. They seem to calm me down to the point where i dont try to be funny etc. Not saying its a bad relation but another relation would be less dull because you would have the added drama.

As an INTp though you dont have much to worry about because life with an ESFp is never dull lol

[implied]

The dual relationship I was in ended just recently and that was because he hopes to find someone more attractive.

Sounds pretty irrational to me. I dont believe in karma...but it definitly comes back to bite you in the ass. I agree with FDG...why didn't you spit in his mouth??

i actually third the mouth-spitting suggestion.

[olduser]

i think you should save up your spit for a week and go from there. a week's worth, my god! imagine the bacterial microcosm you would have the pleasure of making him forcibly digest!

WAIT WAIT. Pee in the jar in which you'll be spitting for a week. Pee in it for a day and then dump the urine out. That will create a nice starter environment for the bacteria in your sputum. A jar coated with dried urine that has been filled with spit for a week. A week's worth, my god! imagine the bacterial microcosm you would have the pleasure of making him forcibly digest!

make sure you get a flashy one liner in before you dose him. I reccommend, "Do you have poison contol on speed dial?" To which he'll reply, "No." You will finish this snappy comment with, "Well, you should! Because i'm about to pour a week's worth of sputum down your throat from a jar coated with dried urine." He won't know what to do!

[Ms. Kensington]

Im sorry to hear that Elizabeth He's delusional... Figure out what you're going to say when he comes crawling back.

Heath make more videos

[Elizabeth]

Wow...I didn't expect such a response! Thanks you guys. It really makes me feel better. The thing is that I have absolutely no desire to get back at him or hurt him in any way. I don't know why, I just don't. It really hurt when he said he wasn't attracted to me. I mean REALLY hurt. I guess I figure there's nothing I can do about.

After we broke up he still wanted to hang out from time to time, not like when we were dating, but occasionally. Though he has recently found himself a pretty blonde, I just don't want to be around at all for that so I told him yesterday that I couldn't be around him anymore. So that's that I guess.

[Expat]

Wow...I didn't expect such a response! Thanks you guys. It really makes me feel better. The thing is that I have absolutely no desire to get back at him or hurt him in any way. I don't know why, I just don't.

Because you're not of a quadra.

It really hurt when he said he wasn't attracted to me. I mean REALLY hurt. I guess I figure there's nothing I can do about.

Well, and how long were you together? Several months, right? And he spent all this time with a girl he wasn't attracted to? Rubbish. If true - which almost certainly it is not - it tells more about him than about you. It's like the "we're not compatible" line preferred by women -- these are things that people say on such occasions. You must not let it get to you (I'm not saying it's easy).

[Blaze]

elizabeth he'll be sorry. what a jerk. sounds like a BS reason, too, since it doesn't even make any sense.

@Expat: why do you say an Se quadra would be more revenge oriented?

[Expat]

@Expat: why do you say an Se quadra would be more revenge oriented?

Because is about power, getting things moving, including hurting others. In Elizabeth's case it's probably even more so for being a Si IP.

[Elizabeth]

Well, and how long were you together? Several months, right? And he spent all this time with a girl he wasn't attracted to? Rubbish. If true - which almost certainly it is not - it tells more about him than about you. It's like the "we're not compatible" line preferred by women -- these are things that people say on such occasions. You must not let it get to you (I'm not saying it's easy).

Oooh. Good point Expat. I hadn't thought about it that way. Hmmm...

I wouldn't be surprised if he aleady had a girl in mind to date when he broke up with me. I'll do my best to not let it get me down.

Thanks again you guys. Your comments have been encouraging.

[Blaze]

@Expat: why do you say an Se quadra would be more revenge oriented?

Because is about power, getting things moving, including hurting others. In Elizabeth's case it's probably even more so for being a Si IP.

all members of said quadra then? so frinstance all betas and gammas would seek revenge?

[Expat]

all members of said quadra then? so frinstance all betas and gammas would seek revenge?

I think revenge, specifically, is much more a Gamma thing than even Beta, due to the + block.

But as you know, in socionics it's not so much "all types this or that" etc -- it's general trends.

[Blaze]

all members of said quadra then? so frinstance all betas and gammas would seek revenge?

I think revenge, specifically, is much more a Gamma thing than even Beta, due to the + block.

But as you know, in socionics it's not so much "all types this or that" etc -- it's general trends.

interesting point about Se plus Fi. i see what you mean. yeah socionics is about trends, but application of them to one's own situation is what makes socionics have some utility.

i am going out with an infp right now....after the "revenge" of my estp ex husband, i am looking to avoid seekers of revenge in the future.