fuck the IJ mindset

[science as magic]

is it just me or does it seem to be the most deleterious when taken to an extreme? the only thing that I can see that is favorable about it is the ability to regulate the amount of influence others exert on you, the ability to galvanize oneself, the ability to build/tear down very strong associations, and the deviation of mind/uniqueness of thought (which granted can be just as shitty). anyone see any advantages? I think Ji was surpassed by Je over the past 200 years or so but I think that Pe is beginning to take over right now. Comments?

[Dioklecian]

Here is a bunch of very interesting INTJs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights

[UDP]

I know what you mean pedro

I have nothing to comment on about it right now.



IJs can use their 'unflappable-ness' to their advantage, if it is harnessed properly. ...but it takes training. Society is shifting to Xe-ness, maybe. I don't really know what to say.

[UDP]

IMO, the real power of is completely neutralizing everything. Then it's just a matter of doing that and figuring out what you want to do, after everything has been neutralized. There are no extremes or things in the way, no obstacles.

Sooner or later, "introversion" fades away, and it's just a matter of "well, what do you want to do now?"

[Joy]

I think the Ixxj mindset is hot.... I'm easily able to get the right IJ person to relax more though. Or rather to worry in the right direction.

[xiuxiu]

i think it is a matter of 'becoming' EJ on the inside, in your resolution of will which gives rise to habits and thus action and mobility. the main drawback to being ij is the lack of pervasiveness.

[tcaudilllg]

i think it is a matter of 'becoming' EJ on the inside, in your resolution of will which gives rise to habits and thus action and mobility. the main drawback to being ij is the lack of pervasiveness.

Well, sure, once you mature enough to put personal knowledge at the disposal of the base. Then you can link into something "larger" than yourself, into an entire ideosyncracy. But of course, you can never positively influence anybody outside your ideosyncracy in that manner, because they will always be doubtful about your position.

It's good for responding to attempts by others to coerce you, though.

[UDP]

Look at the Enneagram
Type 1 and type 5 both become extroverted with proper growth, either to 7 or 8.

It is like Expat said in his Egram thread: being more and more comfortable with the static state around you, you can transfer that into extroversion. IME, the more refined (refining in a way that is conducive to growth and progress, and healthy change) you make your static state (which starts as introverted), the more you can carry that into everything else you do.


...... as I said:

IMO, the real power of is completely neutralizing everything. Then it's just a matter of doing that and figuring out what you want to do, after everything has been neutralized. There are no extremes or things in the way, no obstacles.

Sooner or later, "introversion" fades away, and it's just a matter of "well, what do you want to do now?"

It is increasingly becoming this way for me.
IJ is a building process, more so than other types, and I would say especially so for dominants.


Speaking for , or more so LIIs, the further you really go into the less differentiations there really are. And if you ever heard of taoism or Buddhism, and understand the notion of "sticking to the middle", that even more so points at this. A lot of it is experiencing it beyond trite theoretical approval.

[stefana]

is it just me or does it seem to be the most deleterious when taken to an extreme? the only thing that I can see that is favorable about it is the ability to regulate the amount of influence others exert on you, the ability to galvanize oneself, the ability to build/tear down very strong associations, and the deviation of mind/uniqueness of thought (which granted can be just as shitty). anyone see any advantages? I think Ji was surpassed by Je over the past 200 years or so but I think that Pe is beginning to take over right now. Comments?

cure for the extreme IJ mindset = get out the door.

[Logos]

is it just me or does it seem to be the most deleterious when taken to an extreme? the only thing that I can see that is favorable about it is the ability to regulate the amount of influence others exert on you, the ability to galvanize oneself, the ability to build/tear down very strong associations, and the deviation of mind/uniqueness of thought (which granted can be just as shitty). anyone see any advantages? I think Ji was surpassed by Je over the past 200 years or so but I think that Pe is beginning to take over right now. Comments?

cure for the extreme IJ mindset = get out the door.

Get out the door? What, you mean like taking out the screws and hinges of the door?

[stefana]

is it just me or does it seem to be the most deleterious when taken to an extreme? the only thing that I can see that is favorable about it is the ability to regulate the amount of influence others exert on you, the ability to galvanize oneself, the ability to build/tear down very strong associations, and the deviation of mind/uniqueness of thought (which granted can be just as shitty). anyone see any advantages? I think Ji was surpassed by Je over the past 200 years or so but I think that Pe is beginning to take over right now. Comments?

cure for the extreme IJ mindset = get out the door.

Get out the door? What, you mean like taking out the screws and hinges of the door?

no, that's not what i meant. and i was lazy in explaining it in many sentences. what i meant was go out once in a while. get something done. don't keep to yourself all the time...

[Exodus]

get something done.

Or get your dual to do it for you.





(just kidding)

[science as magic]

i'm not asking for a "solution." i have already derived that. i was asking "waht the fuck is beneficial about this?" and "why do we delude ourselves with valuing all mindsets equally when some of them are just shit?" nevermind. i should just talk to myself

[Joy]

why do we delude ourselves with valuing all mindsets equally

is that an IJ thing?

[UDP]

I think Pedro is subconsciously looking for the Fe-ESFj response.

(semi-kidding)

anyway, I don't think there is any real better or worse to the functional orderings. You've got to use your own stuff and make it work, and that's that.

[Logos]

I think Pedro is subconsciously looking for the Fe-ESFj response.

Actually that would be a fair assessment.

[science as magic]

is that an IJ thing?

no it is an /socionics thing. like isfjs are just as valuable as entps or whatever. who knows? maybe they aren't. i think all of the types are shitty? we need to grow beyond this. i guess that is just the nature of social progression though, you have someone noting correlations between different traits and it turns into "such and such behaves in such and such a manner" until it is shown to be false and the system collapses under its own weight and people say "fuck this! it's all bullshit! i'm not going to repeat the cycle." then a new progression starts

[UDP]

I see it as levels.

How people commonly use their minds now is relatively captured by socionics. Throw in a study of awareness from a zen or even eckhart Tolle sort of perspective, and you see beyond and below socionics even more clearly. Socionics is relative to the mental constructs we develop through interacting, but in no way is it the end all to everything.

socionics just addresses one 'level' or one 'stage', imo. one aspect.

to speak from within socionics, I think it would be hard for people who don't know very well (like ESFjs stereotypically) to find socionics applicable, whereast Ti types can very easily see that socionics is just one aspect, one part of reality so to say. Or one theory attempting to address one part of reality.

Socionics is a tool. Like any tool, its usefulness is dependent upon the surrounding context.


And especially relevant to socionics, it is like martial arts practice or any other study: and that is, after you practice and study it, it becomes ingrained in how you view things. You become "Conscious" of it, and it is ingrained even into your processed cosciousness - it becomes a part of you even when you are not thinking about it. But when you get there, the process doesn't stop Your mind simply doesn't shut off working -- !! jobs done, that's all; of course not.

But then you go on and grow, having that further information inside you. New layers and so on.


Also, I think in comparisson to our bodies, our mind has developed very fast. And yet.............

when I look at the people around me, including myself, I see animals, monkeys, apes. Living in their environment. Wearing skins on their backs, tribal patterns. Art History Class, has much really changed? Am I still just acting like every other human that ever was?


There seems to be a lot of lingering past influence.
We are exploring a great great deal, and technology has afforded us that possibility. But where we are at, the Sjs and the S levels, the now, is still lingering quite a bit. For the first time ever we have been able to look so far with , and determine where we are in relation to where we could be.


eh, more later maybe

[Khamelion]

Ixxj's make me question myself, while most other types don't phase me. I like them for it. Sorry I can't support the Ij hating

[UDP]

It's nothing.

You're just as inconsequential as everyone else.

[Dioklecian]

Ixxj's make me question myself, while most other types don't phase me. I like them for it. Sorry I can't support the Ij hating

What's your type Clover?