INTjs dealing with depression

[snowyc]

i guess someone forgot the golden rule of Socionics theory: to use plenty of words like "may", "can", "probably", "maybe", "perhaps" etc.

In other words, people fall in love for reasons unknown and that's the way it is because if love could be explained then it wouldn't be love, probably.

Socionics is a rational "system" of understanding types and relationships created by rationals. We are representatives of types perhaps but are not types, we are people.

What's the other golden rule of Socionics: To Feel before you Think about your relations.

Love is.

[Creepy-bits]

Kim,

Forget the theorising and talk to your friend. He needs you.

[snowyc]

no that is the golden rule of communication in the english language because everyone is still afraid of the negative possibilities involved with the things that are

So what you are saying is, Socionics explains what it does about relationships if you've studied it deeply and understand it intrinisicly but we must use those words like "probably" etc. to hide the fact that even though we know the theory we're talking about and believe to be true, it's to make others less afraid that they can be 'pigeonholed'. Is that what you meant?

Or in other words, as an example... I believe religion is a dangerous thing with the beliefs people have and what they are willing to do in the name of 'god'. If a scientist turned round and said we know there's no such thing as 'god', a lot of people who do believe would be outraged since 'god' favours irrationality perhaps. Am i getting now what you were saying?

Love is. God is.

[NeonMonk]

Forget the theorising and talk to your friend. He needs you.

Solid advice!

[universal]

Forget the theorising and talk to your friend. He needs you.

Solid advice!

Yes, talk about plants or something. Talk about repairing disposable cigarette lighters, but for crap's sake, _don't try to reason with him_ as you did with me. That will seal his fate.

[universal]

I'm an idiot.

Yes, I'm sweet and care about people. Yes, I can manipulate people into pretty much anything if they like me.

Only if they like you? I'm reading to much into words? I don't care, I have given up on reason here. We could talk about zebra's or whatever. Ants, ants are fun.

He has really touched me deeply, in a way that makes me feel as if I'm ok just the way I am (I don't often think I'm ok).

You could have said, "No, I feel no love for this depressed friend" - discussion closed. No, you have to go all x-rated on uss.

I'm already constantly wondering and worrying about how people perceive me because I don't have a sense of it.

Do you know you have good intensions? Do you feel you have best intensions? Then you don't have to worry about anything, do you?

My conclusive and intellectual final advice: bye.

[universal]

Kim Please stop talking of this 'hostility', I find it very, very insulting and would like to see a bit more respect from you. You only project unjudged love when you do, not when you say you do.

I think ENFP people are one of the greatest people on earth. But it takes character growth. Accept your place on an ENFP ladder and be humble in the presence of those who have climbed to greater heights on the ENFP ladder before you.

ENFP people, when positive, healthy and balanced, are the communicators of love in the world. Un-judged love lies at the basis of their ability to connect. Innocent are their floating ways among mankind. Unjudged love is your greatest strength and the ability to communicate that love. It is why you communicate well. When negative, your strengths turn into being selfish or inward, you manipulate and act out self interests.

You never move in a direction, you float around the world, because you are not capable of long focus. So you tend to be aware only of the surface of things. You tend to understand a little about many things, not allot about few things. Again, that increases your ability to communicate to more people. You must never be chained, or you suffocate in isolation. When positive, you attract people to you. When inward and selfish, you will repel. So you must be outward and only then you attract.

Your superficial being is both your luck and unluck. For you will never truly understand the deeper order of your reality and can find yourself tossed around sometimes. But you don't have to understand that order. You are subject to higher organization. But as that subject, you can project unjudged love. So we need you among mankind because you are the communicator of love.

We can move you in any direction, we can bring to surface your darkest kind, but we do not want that, because we love the communicator of love.

Please don't be so damn silly with telling me about hostility, you are being silly, so silly. Imagine a butterfly flying around on a beech. Everyone looks at that butterfly floating around to everyone. Everyone will like the butterfly. But you are sounding like a butterfly saying: look at how both nice and not nice I am. You are not what you say you are, you are what you do. And when you are nice, we will know, because then we hear friendly unjudged love. Communicate it to your friends and trust that you mean well. You cannot control everything, all you can do is have your best intend. And you know if you have that best intend, you don't have to tell you have. For then you are your best intend.

[Kim]

edit

[universal]

Look back a few pages and look at your tone and words. You referred to someone you do not know as a grown man in diapers. You have called me silly on several occasions. Practice before you preach.

You do not know me. You do not hear on a forum my tonality, so you can misinterpitate. Plus, I have the lame excuse of being an INTJ who finds communication hard sometimes. I did not refer to that man, I painted a picture of a possibility. Admitted, a very low one. But I know very well now that that is not the case. So will you accept that? Kim, people can be silly sometimes and that is NOT always bad or an insult. It is a state of being that can simply be. It does not have to be negative if only that is your interpitation of it. I stand corrected on my initial approach in this thread not being a very unjudged one. I admit Kim.

Ironically, you are only scratching the very surface. All that can be read in numerous Socionics descriptions.
And the role you are assigning me is precisely the one I reject: I'm not a superficial smiling messenger of love to bring well-being to those who focus on greater causes that supposedly I cannot grasp. It is an insult to my intelligence, my aspirations, my ambitions and my talents.

I KNEW you where going to say this and your intelligence does shine trough. Kim, I know you are not a smiling doll! Let me repeat, I know you ar not! I know very, very well that you can be _great_ studiers actually. Great librarians also well. The utmost and greatest there can be actually. I really know this very well. Yes, you can have great focus, I think you can have greater focus then INTJ's actually. You are also faster with many things. You also often can even focus on 2 things at one time.

No, you cannot move us into any directions because you do not understand our inner world as your words above prove.

I meant your emotions. We move your emotions in all directions because you feed allot of those from people around you. English is not my native tongue. Will you excuse me, Kim

You will not understand just how much an ENFp can focus and how deeply s/he can get into a subject matter because you don't care to ask.

Maybe I already know? Could you accept that? Or would you say you don't believe. Because then we never reach an end.

Yeah, and you know why that is? Because I, as well as any other ENFp, as well as any other type on this planet, am more complex than you will ever allow yourself to see as long as you treat people like you are treating me here.

You are so very defence! Why are you so very defence Kim? If I tread you like trash, I'd like to know what I can do better. Please tell me how I have to tread you, do you agree that then the discussion ends?

And that would be you? How old are you?

That was about an ENFP ladder and I admit not to have seen your deeper intelligence yet so that might have come accorss very arrogant, but now I think I figured you out allot deeper. Why are you asking my age? I'd like to be here in full anonymity and do not see what age has got to do with this. We can respect each other. I do respect you more now, because I have met the librarian in you Kim. I know they are out there, but you don't always find them. And I know they can be very well studied. I just for once want to be able to greet you Kim in a friendly way to feel on common ground with you. Don't you want the same? For that is my intend.

I know how a meeting between an INTJ and ENFP can be like. It can be very understanding. Right now I am an airplane who was in thunderstorms posting like crazy, but I think I have found the whole Kim now and I see the sun and the airport. Does that make sence? I know I how it can be like to know a complete ENFP and my own bad and pre-judged approach could be the root of why we never understood each other and conflicted. Does that make sense? I also know from experience that when an INTJ and a ENFP reach mutual understanding, they always learn great things from each other. There is treasure to be found.

[Creepy-bits]

Boy, you lot are hard going. I only came here to see if there was a link between personality type and tendency to depression. Here's how it works for me, for what it's worth.

I'm an INTJ bloke and my confidant is an ESxx female co worker. She had depression about 10 years ago due to an abusive relationship and bullying at work. Her manager couldn't / wouldn't fix the bullying so I arranged for her to join my team and fixed the bullying. So now the organisation works better and we are good friends. She is now recovered from depression but ha sbeen left a bit paranoid.

We talk about work (lots), her children, my children, her pets, my pets, her husband, my wife... But I talk to her about my depression at a level that I couldn't possibly talk about to my wife and the reason is that there is no emotional attachment. At the end of the day we both go home to our families. She discusses problems that she can't discuss with her husband. The really good bit is that I discuss her problems with my wife and she discusses my problems with her husband. This gives a really good same sex view of the problems. Her husband said to phone him anytime if I want a chat but I never will. This only works because of the lack of emotional involvement. We have never met outside work, she has never met my family our vice versa. We would both be mortified by being involved with each other having disclosed such secrets but we prop each other up in dealing with this bitch of a life.

Oh, and I meant rebuff not rebuttal in my first post.

[Creepy-torokun]

Here are my two cents as a strong INTJ.

First of all, drag him out of the house. Don't say it'll be fun, etc., etc... He wants honesty. Just tell him he needs to get out of his head and off of his ass, and start doing something. He'll know you're right, but will fight it because he doesn't want to. Force him to go out somewhere.

Second, it would be best to do something like rock climbing or weight lifting with him. Go to the gym together. Not some gym where people are showing off and shit, but somewhere where he can just focus on lifting or climbing hard. You could also try other things in a similar vein. But not tennis or squash or that stuff. Things like climbing, hiking, mountain biking, shooting guns, lifting weights, skiing, etc., would be best.

Then, after he gets some of this crap out of his system, try to make him feel like he has accomplished something with his life. Not by just saying 'ooh, see how much you've accomplished...' that's way too obvious and he'll see right through it. You need to think about what he's accomplished that's meaningful and obliquely mention it somehow. Like "hey, Johnny called the other day, and said your advice really helped." or somesuch. Above all, don't patronize him or try to convince him of anything directly, or he will argue against you and win, at least in his own mind.

You may also try bringing him somewhere to show him the 'wonder of life' and nature again. Like seeing little cute kids, or waterfalls, etc. He may say that he's not interested, but after experiencing such things, he will feel better.

Eventually, he may feel improved enough to take on a new project. If you go to a bookstore and look at the language section, or the science section, or the martial arts section, or whatever he's into, he may pick up something new to learn about. If he starts saying how cool it is, encourage him to actually plan to learn about it a bit each day, and get through the whole book/task/project rather than just dabble. He would absolutely love you (at this point) if you saw he had started to give up the project, and you kicked his ass to stick with it.

INTJs need this kind of structure, and are very bad at providing it for themselves. They need someone who can provide it for them... Hope this helps...

[discojoe]

INTJs and depression

Like saying "fish and water."

[intjguy]

I don't really know the difference between depression and regret. Maybe I don't know what real depression is. Regret is surely the worst feeling I've felt, but when I think about it... I shouldn't feel depressed about regret because that's what can make me a perfectionist.

Also what helps with depression is if I turn off my phone for a week or more. Kind of like constricting my Fe seeking like a drug, and when I'm back I enjoy people more and all smiles again.

[diljs]

There's a lot of Gamma in here for it being an Alpha thread.

Depression sucks. The solutions are busyness or significant other(s).