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Thread: Examples of Deltas

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    Simon Sinek does look LSE to me, prob C sub. It’s kinda embarrassing but he’s kinda attractive. I have never found someone that much older than me attractive...

    in any case, it kinda snuck up on. I went and binged watched a bunch of his videos even though I’m not...into the E3 corporate talk that much but...yeah haha. I have stopped now. Because I felt like an obsession beginning. I mostly only watched them because I want to understand how LSEs are like, and just their little mannerisms and things because I have never known one personally or closely.

    but anyways LSE-CN E3 sp/so probably
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    @asd it's good to learn to recognize duals haha


    Jamie Lee Curtis LSE D

    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

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    I’ve been unduly obsessed with Astrid Bergés-Frisbey forever, and I am convinced she is LSE-Si.

    EDE0B44C-7FDA-41E2-A76D-000B95EB4458.jpeg

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    I’ve been unduly obsessed with Astrid Bergés-Frisbey forever, and I am convinced she is LSE-Si.
    Oh? We'd love to hear your argumentation then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuathe View Post
    Oh? We'd love to hear your argumentation then.
    I really only have visual identification to go by, but what brought me to the conclusion was a mixture of soft Si ego-like eyes and a sense of style that is reminiscent of my LSE-Si cousin’s. She has certain angularity of facial features like Robin Wright, who is also that type according to some Socionics galleries and they share some facial expressions. Watching her and hearing her speak is relaxing to me, which happens to me with LSEs of Si-sub but not Te-sub. I don’t think she is ESE because in interviews she exhibits a certain awkwardness that is not typical of Fe bases or egos. On the flip side, as an actress she tends to choose roles that are emotionally expressive (suggesting Fe role over PoLR).

    I also considered ESI for her, but she seems too Si-valuing.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 05-03-2021 at 06:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    I really only have visual identification to go by, but what brought me to the conclusion was a mixture of soft Si ego-like eyes and a sense of style that is reminiscent of my LSE-Si cousin’s. She has certain angularity of facial features like Robin Wright, who is also that type according to some Socionics galleries and they share some facial expressions. Watching her and hearing her speak is relaxing to me, which happens to me with LSEs of Si-sub but not Te-sub. I don’t think she is ESE because in interviews she exhibits a certain awkwardness that is not typical of Fe bases or egos. On the flip side, as an actress she tends to choose roles that are emotionally expressive (suggesting Fe role over PoLR).

    I also considered ESI for her, but she seems too Si-valuing.
    These aren't very compelling arguments if you ask me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    I really only have visual identification to go by, but what brought me to the conclusion was a mixture of soft Si ego-like eyes and a sense of style that is reminiscent of my LSE-Si cousin’s. She has certain angularity of facial features like Robin Wright, who is also that type according to some Socionics galleries and they share some facial expressions. Watching her and hearing her speak is relaxing to me, which happens to me with LSEs of Si-sub but not Te-sub. I don’t think she is ESE because in interviews she exhibits a certain awkwardness that is not typical of Fe bases or egos. On the flip side, as an actress she tends to choose roles that are emotionally expressive (suggesting Fe role over PoLR).

    I also considered ESI for her, but she seems too Si-valuing.
    Do you have experience IRL with each sub? Pros/cons interacting with each sub?

    I know there’s more to someone and our relationship with them than type but I was just curious.

    Te subs can sometimes rub me the wrong way too, a little bit, too much Te+Se, not soft enough. But I’m not sure if it’s something else
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuathe View Post
    These aren't very compelling arguments if you ask me.
    Yeah, this is more my subjective POV than anything else. But on the chance that it’s a correct assessment, I wanted to throw her in at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuathe View Post
    These aren't very compelling arguments if you ask me.
    There are no "very compelling arguments" with today methods as all those are highly speculative. And there are many mistakes with all methods too, what is see by low typing matches.
    Besides it's useless to say any arguments to random forum noobs which can't understand them correctly. And intuitive methods as VI are widely used, have significant weight in opinions to make logical explanations weaker without VI factor and are not supposed to have arguments at all, what noobs may forget.
    So, in general to ask for arguments about someone types is significantly useless. I understand, that noobs like to play in argumentations. But it's not very serious except cases to reject some types, alike to point that to have base Fi type does not match with your rude talking style. But not about whole type.

    No one will give good arguments. At least, for the ones with some competence in typology. Noobs are not so, they may be convinced by any nonsense and can't often understand correctly even own types, alike in your case.
    Last edited by Sol; 05-03-2021 at 10:50 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    Do you have experience IRL with each sub? Pros/cons interacting with each sub?

    I know there’s more to someone and our relationship with them than type but I was just curious.

    Te subs can sometimes rub me the wrong way too, a little bit, too much Te+Se, not soft enough. But I’m not sure if it’s something else
    Oh. My. Goodness. Let me tell you, it’s not just in your head.

    Te-LSEs, depending on stuff like strength of subtype + enneagram, instinctual stk., etc...it can create such a world of difference from your unconscious expectations. I have typed my uncle as 3Te-LSE, and of all the LSEs I have ever met you would think he were my conflictor. He is definitely LSE - not to be rude, but every stereotype you’ve ever heard about them describes him. And as some people read this I’m probably going to get the “oh, you’re not EII” “you mistyped” shpiel but it’s a real phenomenon that I’ve seen happen with almost every type and the reason I firmly believe in subtype as a factor of overall sociotype.

    Observation - the stronger the base subtype, the more that person actively implements their demonstrative in their activities. My hypothesis about it is that their HA and their PoLR are more developed (connected respectively to the Ignoring and Base), so they have a bit more “give” when pressured and expect the same from their duals. So Te-LSEs are using Se more conspicuously with less Si “cushioning” because they are oriented at Fi-EIIs, who can “take it.” Si-LSEs use it more often, but behind the scenes of Si so as to not hurt Ne-EII’s PoLR. I also notice that while EII-Ne still is Fi-base, we aren’t wired to give as much ethical support at our own expense to Te-sub LSEs as it seems they require. Somehow, no matter how dry the Te-subtype gets, it does not seem to hurt the Fi-subtype. Don’t know why, but at some point I need some sort of reciprocity, and both my Si-LSE and Ni-LIE cousins are good with knowing when to meet me in the middle. On the positive side, when a healthy Te-sub comes into my life, I find them very attractive, intelligent, and respectable individuals. Once you have gained their trust, they are often even more reliable than the other sub. My first real love was LSE-Te...

    My ILI-Te mom had a similar experience to what I had with my uncle when I was with my SEE-Se ex-boyfriend. Every single base sub of sociotype I have met has at least appeared to have a PoLR that is less sensitive to hits than the creative subtype, and this can be apparent even in duality. Not saying this as a generalization, just my experience.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 05-04-2021 at 12:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    There are no "very compelling arguments" with today methods as all those are highly speculative. And there are many mistakes with all methods too, what is see by low typing matches. Besides it's useless to say any arguments to random forum noobs which can't understand them correctly.
    <3 <3 <3 u r my semi-dual i swear it

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    Quote Originally Posted by sojourn View Post
    Joel Kinnaman, LSE (gives me e8 vibes)




    I literally had to take off my glasses when I saw this man. Now THAT is fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    Oh. My. Goodness. Let me tell you, it’s not just in your head.

    Te-LSEs, depending on stuff like strength of subtype + enneagram, instinctual stk., etc...it can create such a world of difference from your unconscious expectations. I have typed my uncle as 3Te-LSE, and of all the LSEs I have ever met you would think he were my conflictor. He is definitely LSE - not to be rude, but every stereotype you’ve ever heard about them describes him. And as some people read this I’m probably going to get the “oh, you’re not EII” “you mistyped” shpiel but it’s a real phenomenon that I’ve seen happen with almost every type and the reason I firmly believe in subtype as a factor of overall sociotype.
    3Te sub does sound intimidating even in theory lol. I usually get 1Ne sub when I test on sociotype.com, and there are aspects of both Fi and Ne sub description that apply and don't apply to me so - I though I am "close enough to the middle" and didn't really look further into subtypes...

    Observation - the stronger the base subtype, the more that person actively implements their demonstrative in their activities.
    interesting, one of the subtype theories says something like, if intuition is strengthened, then it's both of them and it ultimately takes away from sensation (in keeping with Jung's original theory about how types develop). So that's in line with what you are saying about PoLR yeah...but personally I feel like I have certain instances of being drawn to Ni things, just having a strong intuition that something is a certain way and believing in it, and other things I won't list here. But I have also been brought up in half Gamma NT family so I think that plays a role. I have wondered if Ne sub EII kinda gives NT vibes (which is mentioned in another subtype theory haha). Online I have gotten that a couple of times.

    My hypothesis about it is that their HA and their PoLR are more developed (connected respectively to the Ignoring and Base), so they have a bit more “give” when pressured and expect the same from their duals. So Te-LSEs are using Se more conspicuously with less Si “cushioning” because they are oriented at Fi-EIIs, who can “take it.” Si-LSEs use it more often, but behind the scenes of Si so as to not hurt Ne-EII’s PoLR. I also notice that while EII-Ne still is Fi-base, we aren’t wired to give as much ethical support at our own expense to Te-sub LSEs as it seems they require. Somehow, no matter how dry the Te-subtype gets, it does not seem to hurt the Fi-subtype. Don’t know why, but at some point I need some sort of reciprocity, and both my Si-LSE and Ni-LIE cousins are good with knowing when to meet me in the middle.
    I thought perhaps I just haven't come across compatible duals but the roughness of weak Fi with LSEs can really rub me the wrong way/scare me sometimes. I thought I was just "sensitive."

    Once I had a crush on an SLI (Si). It wasn't mutual but - I learned that I could trust someone, that it was possible to - like I have never before or even after. He would say the same things to me that I would find invalidating and triggering if it came from quite literally any other person but, from him, I somehow on a visceral level completely trusted him and it was never invalidating to me. The LSEs I meet, in contrast (mostly online) seem to rub me the wrong way. I can also be quite emotional once you do get to know me - it could be E4 or however we want to conceptualize it but - I am not truly stoic. But I am also scared but the potential of an LSE-Si being a little too irrational perhaps. For instance, the SLI-EII description...it mentions basically the SLI gets tired of the Fi and literally just starts tuning EII out, going on breaks by himself, and hurting her. Establishing psychological distance in that way.

    I do not want someone who is bored by Fi, because Fi and seeking closeness - the closer the better - makes me happy and also fuels my sx so they are intertwined. I also cannot be with someone who kind of just...expects me to be random and funny much of the time. I can be quite serious honestly - my Ne more so manifests in theorizing (for which I get labeled NT lol).

    edit: I wanted to explain this better. Fi HAs can get scared off by Fi, by my seeking closeness. But it doesn't mean it has to be literally 24/7. I just want someone I feel close to/one with even when I am not talking to him. And that when we do speak, the sense of closeness brings joy not strain or burden.

    But yeah that thing you said about LSE-Si using Se behind the scenes - I absolutely love it. That's how I imagine my potential SO. To be fair, even LSE-Tes tend to get softer around me - or likely will at least in person but - I feel so much more comfortable and myself with someone who uses Se behind the scenes as needed in a protective manner. I think the Te+Se thing I mentioned is sort of classic "Type A" personality with aggression and ambition combined which can tend to be a bit too much for me. I liked my SLI friend's Fi which was just enough to understand the level of gentleness I required and he in response treated me with care.

    Regarding giving LSE-Te Fi help, I am not entirely sure what it looks like? So I do not know how much Fi help they would require. I guess I imagine LSEs as someone who do generally have quite good integrity themselves; they may just push it to the background a bit when over-concerned with a Te matter in the present. But mostly I imagine Fi "help" as helping them figure out their thoughts/feelings/attitudes and bring it to the consciousness (and the rest follows - including ethical behavior). Although I really don't mind giving them pointers on that, but like I said, if the Fi is too rough, it tends to scare me.

    On the positive side, when a healthy Te-sub comes into my life, I find them very attractive, intelligent, and respectable individuals. Once you have gained their trust, they are often even more reliable than the other sub. My first real love was LSE-Te...
    was? Did you guys end up not being compatible, if you don't mind me asking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    3Te sub does sound intimidating even in theory lol. I usually get 1Ne sub when I test on sociotype.com, and there are aspects of both Fi and Ne sub description that apply and don't apply to me so - I though I am "close enough to the middle" and didn't really look further into subtypes...

    interesting, one of the subtype theories says something like, if intuition is strengthened, then it's both of them and it ultimately takes away from sensation (in keeping with Jung's original theory about how types develop). So that's in line with what you are saying about PoLR yeah...but personally I feel like I have certain instances of being drawn to Ni things, just having a strong intuition that something is a certain way and believing in it, and other things I won't list here. But I have also been brought up in half Gamma NT family so I think that plays a role. I have wondered if Ne sub EII kinda gives NT vibes (which is mentioned in another subtype theory haha). Online I have gotten that a couple of times.

    I thought perhaps I just haven't come across compatible duals but the roughness of weak Fi with LSEs can really rub me the wrong way/scare me sometimes. I thought I was just "sensitive."

    Once I had a crush on an SLI (Si). It wasn't mutual but - I learned that I could trust someone, that it was possible to - like I have never before or even after. He would say the same things to me that I would find invalidating and triggering if it came from quite literally any other person but, from him, I somehow on a visceral level completely trusted him and it was never invalidating to me. The LSEs I meet, in contrast (mostly online) seem to rub me the wrong way. I can also be quite emotional once you do get to know me - it could be E4 or however we want to conceptualize it but - I am not truly stoic. But I am also scared but the potential of an LSE-Si being a little too irrational perhaps. For instance, the SLI-EII description...it mentions basically the SLI gets tired of the Fi and literally just starts tuning EII out, going on breaks by himself, and hurting her. Establishing psychological distance in that way.

    I do not want someone who is bored by Fi, because Fi and seeking closeness - the closer the better - makes me happy and also fuels my sx so they are intertwined. I also cannot be with someone who kind of just...expects me to be random and funny much of the time. I can be quite serious honestly - my Ne more so manifests in theorizing (for which I get labeled NT lol).

    edit: I wanted to explain this better. Fi HAs can get scared off by Fi, by my seeking closeness. But it doesn't mean it has to be literally 24/7. I just want someone I feel close to/one with even when I am not talking to him. And that when we do speak, the sense of closeness brings joy not strain or burden. .

    But yeah that thing you said about LSE-Si using Se behind the scenes - I absolutely love it. That's how I imagine my potential SO. To be fair, even LSE-Tes tend to get softer around me - or likely will at least in person but - I feel so much more comfortable and myself with someone who uses Se behind the scenes as needed in a protective manner. I think the Te+Se thing I mentioned is sort of classic "Type A" personality with aggression and ambition combined which can tend to be a bit too much for me. I liked my SLI friend's Fi which was just enough to understand the level of gentleness I required and he in response treated me with care.

    Regarding giving LSE-Te Fi help, I am not entirely sure what it looks like? So I do not know how much Fi help they would require. I guess I imagine LSEs as someone who do generally have quite good integrity themselves; they may just push it to the background a bit when over-concerned with a Te matter in the present. But mostly I imagine Fi "help" as helping them figure out their thoughts/feelings/attitudes and bring it to the consciousness (and the rest follows - including ethical behavior). Although I really don't mind giving them pointers on that, but like I said, if the Fi is too rough, it tends to scare me.

    was? Did you guys end up not being compatible, if you don't mind me asking?
    I’m a 1Ne sub, an ennea4 and an sx-lead too!!

    It’s like I’m reading my own mind. I don’t get the opportunity to talk to other EIIs a lot so I’m just fangirling right now

    I had a crush on an SLI-Si friend with whom it wasn’t reciprocal either. I also had an SLI-Si childhood best friend with whom I experienced that feeling of, man they just get it. We called each other kindred spirits, and I still think that holds true. But SLIs of the Si subtype do seem to get stifled by our Fi after a while. I’ve had people tell me that even when I try not to emphasize it, they can feel it lingering in the background. It’s a pity because otherwise it’s such a harmonious relation!

    Yes, for real. I can quickly tell when there’s an LSE-Si around me just because the psychological atmosphere instantly settles, like a storm just suddenly clearing into a blue sky when you get into their presence. And I second what you said about LSE-Tes softening around us - after detailing my tumultuous dynamic with my uncle, I must admit even he is sometimes touched by my Fi. It can be really endearing.

    With my LSE-Te romance, it was a sexuality issue...we had feelings for each other but he was in the closet before I came into the picture and did not want to commit to a woman. We shared passions and talents we’d never shared with others and we were always better together than apart. To me, he was my soulmate. But he started to take advantage of my loyalty to him in spite of knowing his situation, and I couldn’t continue. It was when we were over that he realized what my presence meant for him (duality-wise), but...it is what it is. He did teach me how beautiful duality can be, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    There are no "very compelling arguments" with today methods as all those are highly speculative. And there are many mistakes with all methods too, what is see by low typing matches.
    Besides it's useless to say any arguments to random forum noobs which can't understand them correctly. And intuitive methods as VI are widely used, have significant weight in opinions to make logical explanations weaker without VI factor and are not supposed to have arguments at all, what noobs may forget.
    So, in general to ask for arguments about someone types is significantly useless. I understand, that noobs like to play in argumentations. But it's not very serious except cases to reject some types, alike to point that to have base Fi type does not match with your rude talking style. But not about whole type.
    Are you calling competency basing typings on arbitrary stuff like one's facial features they have no control over, instead of taking a look at their actual personality? Wow, I haven't seen someone spew so much bullshit in one post in a loooong time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    No one will give good arguments. At least, for the ones with some competence in typology. Noobs are not so, they may be convinced by any nonsense and can't often understand correctly even own types, alike in your case.
    Said the guy who after being into this typology for 10 years still makes rookie mistakes and types himself LSE when it's blatantly obvious to anyone watching is not the case. Besides, the only reason you have for accusing me of mistyping myself is because I told you off when you tried to convince me I must be something else but not an EII because I wasn't your dreamy INFP girl. You're ridiculous, as always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    Observation - the stronger the base subtype, the more that person actively implements their demonstrative in their activities. My hypothesis about it is that their HA and their PoLR are more developed (connected respectively to the Ignoring and Base), so they have a bit more “give” when pressured and expect the same from their duals. So Te-LSEs are using Se more conspicuously with less Si “cushioning” because they are oriented at Fi-EIIs, who can “take it.” Si-LSEs use it more often, but behind the scenes of Si so as to not hurt Ne-EII’s PoLR
    Funny, given the Cautious vs Bold dichotomy, I'd expect EII-Ne to have stronger Se and being able to "take it" as opposed to EII-Fi. It also seems way more logical that way. If I were to believe what you believe instead, I'd have to type myself EII-Ne like you do, which I know I'm not.
    Last edited by tuathe; 05-04-2021 at 11:39 AM.
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    @PinKDiGiT18

    Taking the problem of high speculativity (including of the process as with VI) of existing typing methods, if you want to play in arguments about types - offer your opponent to explain his opinion or doubts. With some thinking it will be not hard to see and to point weak places of his arguments.

    It's easier to reduce a possiblity of some types. But it's doubtful to explain a whole type by arguments with good objectivity.
    What is possibly now is to use matched results of independent methods and opinion sources as objective approach. If more tests and typers agree (independently!) - it's more possible trait/type from objective point.

    I suppose Ti valued types have higher interest and trust to speculative games with behavior arguments possible today, as Te valued ones should notice better the lack of objectivity. It's also easier to logically convince F types, though they are easier to change later such opinions.

    Also, there is significant chance of your mistake with today methods. It's more when you don't have good typing experience. When know not much about a human, what exists for the ones you do not know good personally and who did not do special typing questionnaires/tests.
    For types about famouses and public people you are doomed to have bad arguments due to lack of info - it's impossibly to type them with assurance by common behavior only. It's appropriate with intuitive VI which has no arguments to say to other human.

    P.S.
    To identify types of famouses are needed good VI skills, what noobs have no. You just play here in a typing, same as in arguments.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuathe View Post
    Funny, given the Cautious vs Bold dichotomy, I'd expect EII-Ne to have stronger Se and being able to "take it" as opposed to EII-Fi. It also seems way more logical that way. If I were to believe what you believe instead, I'd have to type myself EII-Ne like you do, which I know I'm not.
    I don’t know, would it make sense for EII-Ne to have a dual of a sensory subtype if their sensory functions, including PoLR, were stronger? What I do see is that for creative subtypes, the PoLR is more conscious along with the creative - part of the reason it is very painful. The following statement is a conjecture, but it seems that because base subs are better able to focus on functions of the same orientation as their base (introverted in our case), the concept of a stronger PoLR (which in our case is extroverted) may be overlooked. But in my experience, the Fi-subtype is much more resilient when faced with pressure than the Ne-sub. Especially when the pressure is given in light of a Te aim. We Ne-subs are more likely to have a conniption fit when someone pressures us for any reason, even if for Te purposes. The presence of Si gentleness and nuance is non-negotiable for us.

    To me, you are definitely EII-Fi - from the first time you quoted me your interjections and semantics have been very reflective of rational-subtype rational Delta dyad.

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    asd's Avatar
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    you've probably seen this but: http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...d_and_Ovcharov

    what you've been saying is in this article

    @PinKDiGiT18
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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    you've probably seen this but: http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...d_and_Ovcharov

    what you've been saying is in this article

    @PinKDiGiT18
    Thank you so much! I think I came across it before but it’s been a while and my baby Te never knows how to find stuff again. -facepalm-

    It’s fascinating how our minds work. A lot of people are skeptical about socionics but it is such an awesome tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    To me, you are definitely EII-Fi - from the first time you quoted me your interjections and semantics have been very reflective of rational-subtype rational Delta dyad.
    Glad you see it as well But just like Ne-subs you describe, I'm also allergic to any form of pressure.
    EII-Fi
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