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Thread: The Complexities of the Analyst (INTj uncovered)

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    Default The Complexities of the Analyst (INTj uncovered)

    Here it is. But a few points beforehand:
    1. This is neither exhaustive nor based on thorough research. It is more of my imagination, personal experiences and is probably incomplete.
    2. You are free to add to this description, or to criticise it constructively.
    3. Do not treat this as official.


    The Complexities of the Analyst (INTj uncovered)

    Ti Ne Fi Se Fe Si Te Ni


    Behind that cold, rational mask there is a hidden sea of turbulence. The Analyst’s life is dominated by a) his desire to control his emotions, and b) many internal complexities and paradoxes.

    Usually, the child Analyst is extroverted. He uses his Fe and Se a lot. Commonly, he will have many friends, and probably will live a life of socialising. And he will not mind this. The Analyst can observe, with a ironic wit, the idiosyncrasies of life and can, to a degree, empathise and consider other people well due to his Ne.

    However, he matures and realises that the life of socialising does not provide him with what he wants. Thus, his Ti asserts himself. He withdraws, becomes more reserved. The stage at which he does this is variable.

    Once the Analyst withdraws, his life becomes a battle between the Ti and Fe.

    This battle creates tension. The Analyst will always view it that he became too panicky, or smiled too much. His Ne does not help at this stage. He cannot express himself in a controlled manner. He introverts logically, but extroverts intuitively. Thus, he is either well-controlled (in his opinion) or wild and uncontrolled (when extroverted).

    This is both a source of tension and confusion. The Analyst, usually not being religious, and being future-orientated, may begin to question his purpose in life. He seems to have no set personality, in his opinion. He tends to view the more serious side of life. His Ti means that he prefers to remain aloof, and thus he can feel lonely and without guidance.

    The aloofness is a product of the Ti-Si relationship. The Analyst associates, in his youth, idiots who carelessly risk their bodies to socialising. Since he has no wish to injure his body (out of the Si, and hidden agenda of remaining healthy) then he detaches and continues to associate friendliness with threat to the Si. Although this, by no means, should be interpreted that the Analyst cannot make friends, it is just as if he is afraid of socialising with common people, the practical jokers.

    There is another reason. The Analyst’s Se is not well-developed. This means that he has something of an inability to assert himself. Even if he shouts, his voice is not strong. It also makes him more susceptible to bullying - he prefers an environment where there is no discomfort from the external world, and bullying targets Se very well.

    Continuing with the theme of Ti, it allows him to make ruthless and impersonal decisions. But he will forever chide himself, because the Ti-Ne relationship produces a need for justice. If his Ti wants to make cold decisions, his Ne justice and Fe warmth oppose him. He does not like to put ruthless acts into action (in others words, personally doing dirty deeds) because of the Se and because it may well be unhealthy (because there is risk).

    The Analyst will usually try to make it appear as though his sensing is as strong as his intuition, which seems to be a root cause of his early extroversion (expressing Se so that it appear strong enough not to be a weakness). This causes another constant battle. He sometimes finds it difficult to distinguish between the two, and this can cause a ‘S-N identity disorder.’

    Finally, there can also be a T-F identity disorder produced as well. His Ne allows him to consider other people well. Usually he is sensitive in dealing with himself and others, due to the Si, Ne and the fact that he does not wish to harm others (he believes that they will have the same Se function-problem). Thus, he seems to empathise. However, he must control it, because his Ti tells him to. This is another source of confusion.

    In conclusion, the Analyst’s personality is one of disorder behind his remote, detached mask.

  2. #2
    Creepy-Pedro-the-Lion

    Default religion

    I'm and INTJ and I think you did a pretty good job except for the thing about INTJs not being religious. I'm highly religious and have another INTJ acquaintance who is the same. I think INTJs tend to be more "extreme" in their religiousity due to the strong need for justice also, many of us are drawn in via theological debates and such. Many INTJs are non-religious or anti-religious but a large percentage are. Look at the great theologians throughtout history for example Luther, Aquinas, Augustine, Hobbes, and Calvin all seem to be Ti possibly TiNe to me. I think a better statement would be INTJs are either A) non-involved with religion {have no opinion} or B) are super-involved (either psoitively or negatively; ie Luther's self-torment over the purity of his soul or Neitzche's deconstruction of Christianity in Anti-Christ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro
    Look at the great theologians throughtout history for example Luther, Aquinas, Augustine, Hobbes, and Calvin all seem to be Ti possibly TiNe to me.
    This question would need professional Socionists to evaluate these people. I knew about the ambiguity of type, so I said 'usually, INTjs are not religious.'

    Although your point is a good one, I say that INTjs are somewhat sceptical about religion. It would seem that they like everything to be logical and rational. If it is based upon uncertain grounds, they tend to distrust it, although they can make far-reaching evaluations from such uncertain grounds. However, this would need clarifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Last post, I
    Although your point is a good one, I say that INTjs are somewhat sceptical about religion. It would seem that they like everything to be logical and rational. If it is based upon uncertain grounds, they tend to distrust it, although they can make far-reaching evaluations from such uncertain grounds. However, this would need clarifying.
    On second thoughts, I'm not so sure. INTjs could either draw far-reaching conclusions from uncertain data or could be more prudent and slow with the same data. I thought that the last means of processing information was more in the style of an INTp. This does need clarification.

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    When speaking of religiousness, we should firstly define what deos this mean for different people.

    Thinking of religion, we usually mean life having higher force guideing us. Being religious means we have believe into that higher power. But that can be in my point of view: either having feeling of a destiny and being part of the flow of life, which is related with Ni , or not that, but having believe into higher force and then drieng to understand by this, the essence of our life.Ii think then we are speaking of Ne. INTj type having strong Ne, i think, makes his or her believing into God,believing not into something like let your heart guide you and believe into your destiny, but rather makes INTjs beliefe to be something like having logical explanation to certain life aspects , which are not yet well explained, but will be understood, if we explain it by God.

    I think believing into God for INTj or ENTp, means not that unexplained feeling ,what makes your life into one big story, but having believe that there might be a higher foce which can be understood by science or methods resembleing science.

    In one word, INTj and ENTps believe, i think, is usually practically explained knowledge.

    If you want to know, what is faith by types having strong Ni, then read Coelho.f.e.

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    Default Re: Sacrifiicium Intellectus

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-The-Lion
    Jung wrote about how people often sacrifice their primary functions at certain points in their life in his Types.
    Jung wrote about the midlife crisis when we start developing our weaker functions though Jung always emphasized that one should first get established in life with the stronger functions and the crisis of reaching maturity should not be confused with the midlife crisis. Here is an article from the MBTI point of view:
    http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t-articl/midlife.htm

    Also, that's a good point about making sure people are typed correctly I have read a lot of these guys though and I think almost exactly like them it seems very much like identical relations to me but, maybe I'm wrong who knows?
    I have been thinking about this too. Sometimes when reading other people's posts or other texts I have got the feeling that this is something I could have written myself. It does not happen that often and certainly not with every other INFP, but nonetheless it would be interesting to do some experiments on how reliable this kind of typing could be.

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    Thus, I think that I'll change the following passage

    Quote Originally Posted by I
    The Analyst, usually not being religious, and being future-orientated, may begin to question his purpose in life. He seems to have no set personality, in his opinion. He tends to view the more serious side of life. His Ti means that he prefers to remain aloof, and thus he can feel lonely and without guidance.
    to something like this:

    The Analyst may or may not be religious. He may believe in higher purposes, or he may stubbornly defend his anti-religious beliefs. Either way, he ponders and analyses the questions of religion.

    If he is not religious, this couples with his orientation towards the future; therefore, he may begin to question his purpose in life. He seems to have no set personality, in his opinion (due to the Ti-Ne/Se). He tends to view the more serious side of life. His Ti means that he prefers to remain aloof, and thus he can feel lonely and without guidance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-The-Lion
    Interesting article... Are there any correlations between IQ and time of mid-life crisis? Why did you bring up the whole mid-life vs. reaching maturity thing up in the 1st place?
    I have been recently reading Jung's works and this was one of the issues he discussed. I do not know about IQ, I guess there could be some correlation. What I remember is that in one case a man had reached his midlife crisis already in his thirties and Jung speculated that if everything othervice seems to be OK it could indicate that his life cycle is shorter than average, the editor's note then stated that the man had indeed died in his sixties of natural causes - I hope this is no bad omen. :wink:
    In a sense I guess I could agree with Eric Ericsson that life is an ongoing series of crises - it certainly feels that way at times. :|

    On the subject of typing experiments via reading excerpts of another's work it sucks a lot of the author's people relate to are dead and we can't verify their types unless there is some kind of painting/picture of them but even then it'll still probably be in doubt.
    It is quite characteristic that there is not even agreement on the type of Carl Gustav Jung, many socionists seem to think that he was actually INTP. What I was thinking was that if you feel particularly strongly about some author or a piece of text you could quote it or link to it and then we could compare our views on the author's type. I often keep thinking if only there were a way to verify the types with 100% accuracy but so far I cannot really think of anything.

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    I don't mean to be blunt and/or rude, but can we get back to the central issue, which is the analysis of my 'article'.

    This probably sounds self-centred. I don't mean it that way. I merely prefer posts to remain on topic. If you want to discuss your points any further, then can you please start another post.

    Thanks.

  10. #10
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    I think you make an interesting point about the INTJ tendency to make friends at an early age due to Fe and Se. My father is an INTJ and I have noticed that the only people he still talks to on a regular basis are the friends of his childhood! I know he talks to a few people at work but they are mostly just acquanitances and such. Again, a very interesting and valid point.

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    It's well established that Jung is INTj not INTp.
    The description of an INTj located at "http://socioniko.narod.ru/ states
    "I think therefore I am". He is a man of developed logical faculty, a strong capability for analysis. He knows how to dig to the essence of things, to reveal their internal structure. A representative of this personality type, Carl Gustav Jung, drew the underlying basics of the functional typology used in Socionics.
    Further evidence:
    at http://www.socionics.com/advan/qa231003.htm one asks
    Could you please tell me the type of Carl Jung?
    Answer- Introverted Thinking with Intuition
    I believe that most who type Jung as INTP are referring to MBTI's INTP, which is socionics INTj.
    Furthermore, if you read his books it becomes quite apparant that Jung is an intuitive thinker. It also appears that his thinking style is introverted, not extraverted, as it is very speculative and theoretical. As a result, it is unlikely that he is an ENTj or INTp.

    Sorry I went of topic. I just wanted to clear this up.

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    Well done Tanzhe!

    I like your article very much. Much more so than all of Ganin's "Uncovered" analysis. Eeks!

    I've an INTJ cousin. He was expressive, loud and playful in his childhood. But he's a distant and emotionally-detached person now.

    If someone bullies him through the net, he doesn't hesitate in getting back at that person. But if it's in real-life, which is in front of other people; he will keep quiet.

    And I do get the impression that he's holding back when he's interacting with us. One moment he would share something. Later, he would retreat into his shell. It's like a conscious, repetitive process.

    Another INTJ friend of mine hates visiting discos. He told me it is a waste of time and he doesn't wish to associate with--in his own words, 'empty' people. Please, I mean no offence to those who go to discos. I'm just relating what my friend said. He prefers cross-country cycling. And he's very watchful of his lifestyle and diet.

    He doesn't believe in God but he did say that it's possible for 'something to be up there'. He just doesn't think that it's logical for people to know the power is a Super-human and has a sex (because people often refer to God as 'Him'). That's what he thinks.

    Okay this is all for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YMN
    He just doesn't think that it's logical for people to know the power is a Super-human and has a sex (because people often refer to God as 'Him').
    Same with me. I once read that 'I hardly think that the architect of the multiverse is likely to be bound by the banalities of human gender.'


    Quote Originally Posted by YMN
    And I do get the impression that he's holding back when he's interacting with us. One moment he would share something. Later, he would retreat into his shell. It's like a conscious, repetitive process.
    I've observed this in myself. The Analyst, I believe, does not like this because, when he extroverts (intuitively) he does so in an uncontrolled fashion relative to his introverted subtype (which is thinking). His psychological distance to others varies, it doesn't seem constant. That it what I have seen for me.

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    I'm adding this to my own INTj uncovered on my computer:

    The Analyst's Ti creates more tension in the form of sadness. If the Analyst cannot find a way to express or stir his emotions, then he will become more and more depressed. By 'expressing' or 'stirring', this is not a simple matter of laughing more. It is genuinely feeling empathy with someone. The Analyst can put himself in other's shoes due to his Ne, but frequently cannot put himself in their heart.

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    I have this problem ,that i can understand others problems and worries, but i can't feel their sadness inside my self.
    Semiotical process

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    Default Jung

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-The-Lion
    I doubt it if you look at his life you see him withdrawing into himself in order to interpret his dreams and various other sybols/inner images that's a Ni thing. Anyone can analyze a situation primary function have to do with the way you consistent think in order to understand your world. Lastly, his mystical combination of eastern mysticism with western monasticism is not a Ti thing it's Ni.
    Sorry to get off topic again but I want to address Jung's type again:

    Anyone can withdrawal into themselves and interpret dreams. The use of Ne-Si could allow an intj do do this. Although the Si is not strong in INTJs, with effective concentration an intj can access it in a creative manner. Jung's idea of collective unconscience was likely formed with an awareness of Si. Jung defines Si as "presuppositions or dispositions of the collective unconscious, with mythological images, with primordial possibilities of ideas." Thus, dream interpretation can be done with a variety of functions.

    Although Jung accessed his Ni (we all do, regardless of type), it does not appear he is a dominant introverted intuitive, simply because of the dominance of the introverted thinking style in his writings. Te is very different, and while it appears in his writing at times, it seems absurd that his writing is more fact based (Te) than theory based (Ti). In other words, he uses facts, but maily is support of his theories.
    Admitedly, any type can and will analyze situations, but each type will do it in a manner characteristic to type. And Jung's types suggests he was very confident with his Ti.
    However, he might have been a Ni-Te (doubtful though). If you believe this is the case, please provide some more evidence for this claim. While you do this, please do not forget that as an INTJ, Jung will will have access to Ni-Te (although in the opposite order, Te, Ni), but these were his 7th and 8th functions.
    Lastly, for a possible arguement against Jung as an intutive thinker, the evidence appears to be non-existent. However anyone can feel free to argue for anything. What's next? Maybe he was an ESFJ. Or an ENFP, ESFP, ISTJ ect...

    Cheers

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    For further ideas, I have a question:

    If Te is mainly to do with mathematics and hard sciences, then can someone tell me what Ti is mainly to do with?

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    Hmm. B. Pushkin at his site, which is in Estonian, says that math and hard science are mostly Ti stuff, specially Ti+Ne. He says f.e that if the Searsher is a scientist, then he is not an ordinary scientist, but may be revolutionaire in his field of science. And he says that Te is a function of logical actions: algorithm of actions, knowing how to work with the machines,knowing how to make profit with your actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guest
    B. Pushkin at his site, which is in Estonian, says that math and hard science are mostly Ti stuff
    Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to add up. Both Ti-dominant types (ISTj, INTj) are excellent at analysis due to the Ti. But Te-dominant types (ESTj, ENTj) are excellent at economy.

    It would seem that analysis is the main strength of Ti, which means that Ti-dominant types are good at mathematics and science, because those subjects require analysis and logic. However, the Ti-dominant types will always be best at pure analysis. Any thoughts?

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    Default Fi-Fe confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    By the way, CuriousSoul, what did you think of my INTj uncovered? I know that you cannot judge it well, because you are an INFp, but you said that you would be delighted to read it.
    It was well written and I enjoyed it. As you mentioned, as an INFP I am poorly able to judge how well it describes the internal world of INTJs, but it would indeed seem to explain the way INTJs appear to other people.

    Now, however a few points, as Pedro-the-Lion noted INTJs have, according to Socionics theory, introverted feeling Fi, or ethics of relations under their conscious controll as their third role function and extroverted feeling Fe as their subconscious fifth, suggestive or duality-seeking function. The difference between the introverted and extroverted functions is one of the major difficulties I currently have with socionics but I found this explanation on the difference between Fe and Fi by Sergei Ganin quite illustrative:

    Fe defines whether object is excited or not. Excitement parameters appear
    though emotions. You see emotions because they are external.

    Fi defines the relation between objects, do the repel or do they attract.
    You feel repulsion or attraction because they are internal.

    How do you know if someone likes you or not, through their emotional
    response. You can judge it by how they are excited about you. You relation
    to the person on the other hand is you own subjective feeling, whether you
    like the person or not they won't know unless you show an emotion.

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socionics/message/98

    On the other hand if we look at the model for INTJ:

    Corresponding Blocks
    There are 4 further groupings of blocks besides the ego, superego, superid, and id groupings. These are the corresponding blocks of psyche; you will find supplimenting functions in these blocks.

    active will - the first Ti and fifth functions Fe
    authority - the second Ne and sixth functions Si
    neurosis - the third Fi and seventh functions Te
    phobia - the fourth Se and eighth functions Ni

    http://www.the16types.info/models.php


    The Functions according to Malyshka (from the Forum):

    Extrovert (black) ethics

    - Understanding the emotional state of a person, influence on his mood.
    - Ability to force a person to reveal his emotions, show his feelings. Ability to find an individual approach to a person.
    - Frank expression of the emotions, demonstration of feelings, epatage, inclination to theatricality (grandstand play).
    - Impressionability, mood drops, passion, fanaticism, animation of different objects.
    - Creation of an emotional atmosphere in a collective or a society (stressing situation, enthusiasm, emotional rise). Management of an emotional background.
    - Inclination to oratory, artistry (all spectrum of intonations, expressive pauses, significant sights, rich mimicry).

    Introvert (white) ethics

    - A moral estimation of the deeds of a person, his opinions.
    - Ability to understand, estimate the relationship between people, conventions accepted in a collective, society.
    - An emotional estimation of one’s attitude (sympathy, antipathy, trust, worship and so forth), its expression. An estimation of public attitudes (sympathies, popularity and so forth).
    - Manipulation with relationship between people, ability to build relationship on any psychological distance and to create and impose the norms of behaviour.
    - Aspiration for humanistic ideals (philantrophy, mercy and so forth).
    - Aspiration for mutual trust, call of duty, responsibility.

    As far as I can tell the third function, though a function of neurosis, does usually not cause major difficulties as far as we need not do anything especially demanding with it, according to theory: Your role function never wants to stand out. You always try to go with the normal social behavior in this function, because you are unsure of it. You do not like criticism in this function therefore you won't give it. For INTJs third function is ethics of relations, and thus they would usually follow the norms of politeness and would want to show whether someone or something attracts or repulses them only according to socially accepted norms, unless they get emotionally excited and their suggestive fifth function of active will, extroverted feeling, takes over:
    Once the Analyst withdraws, his life becomes a battle between the Ti and Fe.
    Your suggestive function has difficulty working on it's own. You take criticism well in this function, as it is seen as concern. This function causes your dependency and childishness, as you need help with it but do nothing to ask for it. If you do not receive help, you feel like an abandoned child (why is nobody helping me?) So what is going on in terms of the functions: am I correct in my interpretation that extroverted feeling is both an aspect of reality that INTJs find important and would need help with but do not know how to ask for it and though the function is not under conscious control, and is a source of childisness, it is nevertheless an important function for INTJs, one of their Quadra values, and they are afraid it may take over and they may lose control over their behaviour - but how is this all different from INTPs, are there any INTPs out there, or anybody who knows more about Socionics. I need to understand...

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    curious, you are right in most of what you said. the ti becomes a battle of ti and fe seems misleading if not wrong. intjs will not show emotions until they get around someone with in the first, second, or third roles, in those orders of importance. As far as FE taking over, Fe is a weak function and not a strong one, so if Ti totally breaks down and Fe takes over the person acts "out" in an extreme way, unconsciously. I have done this in a couple times I can remember, YELLING AND SHUTTING DOORS all of the sudden then 5 mins later like ... wow don't know why I did that. Especially when I feel hurt. Otherwise I'm relatively unemotional[/quote]

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    Default Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by metaiwan
    curious, you are right in most of what you said. the ti becomes a battle of ti and fe seems misleading if not wrong. intjs will not show emotions until they get around someone with in the first, second, or third roles, in those orders of importance. As far as FE taking over, Fe is a weak function and not a strong one, so if Ti totally breaks down and Fe takes over the person acts "out" in an extreme way, unconsciously. I have done this in a couple times I can remember, YELLING AND SHUTTING DOORS all of the sudden then 5 mins later like ... wow don't know why I did that. Especially when I feel hurt. Otherwise I'm relatively unemotional
    Yes, you are right, and I changed my original post to better reflect what I had in mind. According to model A:

    STRONG:

    Individual has a confident command and large amount of information of a certain kind and can forcefully influence other people and his surroundings in a certain way.

    WEAK:

    Individual has a weak command and insufficient amount of information of a certain kind and is subject to others’ influence in this area.

    http://www.geocities.com/tommylove9000/model.html

    Strong conscious functions 1 and 2, strong subconscious functions 7 and 8.
    Weak conscious functions 3 and 4, weak subconscious functions 5 and 6.

    What I was thinking was the theory of Quadra values which are defined by the information expressed and repressed in every Quadra. Thus the weak subconscious functions, 5th duality-seeking function and 6th hidden agenda, would be strong in the sense that they can influence our behaviour strongly and people need other's help with them, whereas the 7th and 8th functions are weak in the sense that we are able to use them without making a fuss and they are functions that need no followers. Then there are the Reinin Dimensions, and I think this theory of Corresponding Blocks is one of them, note the the order of the subconscious functions:

    The corresponding blocks of psyche; you will find supplimenting functions in these blocks.
    1. active will - the first and fifth functions
    2. authority - the second and sixth functions
    3. neurosis - the third and seventh functions
    4. phobia - the fourth and eighth functions

    There seems to be quite a lot of these Reinin Dimensions but I cannot really find any information on them, and I still do not know very well how to tell INTPs and INTJs apart by applying Socionics models. We need INTPs here.

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    we had one, he said socionics is not necessary and silly and left!!!

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    Yeah I remember him, Absurd Len,
    It is strange that there are already forty registered members but very few are posting anything. It makes me think if I have been all too theoretical and critical of others. Oh well, I am sure my cry for help will attract one or two INTPs soon. :wink:

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    Added:

    Normally, the Analyst will follow the norms of politeness. This again causes a paradox. His Ti is not very good at emotionally helping others. However, the Analyst appears polite and thus seems to be a good listener. He is a good listener, but prefers not to be burdened by the problems of others that he can do nothing about. The Analyst, since he wishes to use his Fi is a socially accepted fashion, means that he is somewhat unassertive and thus cannot dismiss these people who come to him with problems.

    Any comments on this or on the INTj uncovered in general?


    Plus, I would like some information on the manifestations of an INTjs 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and eighth functions. Thus far, I have this:

    Fi His facial expressions and demeanour do not always correspond with his feelings. Many therefore conclude them to be cold and distant. He also tends to loose contact with people that he has made emotional connections with.
    Se He has an inability to push his talents and make others aware of it. To aggravate the problem, they often have low self-confidence. Sometimes they lack determination and do not adapt well to rapidly changing life situations. When beginning new projects they will need outside stimulation. The Analyst tends to dislike anything that will imbalance his measured way of life. In his youth, he tends to lead an extroverted lifestyle until he realises that this existence is something other than what he really needs.
    Fe He is very secretive and dislikes unwanted visitors. He prefers a happy, cheerful and exciting surrounding.
    Si This gives the Analyst his hidden agenda. Introverted sensing primarily concerns the body and its functions, sensory perceptions etc. Therefore he concerns himself with living healthily. One manifestation of this is that he may not like to eat when no one else is, as this, in his eyes, attracts unnecessary attention to his bodily functions.
    Te The Analyst tends to forget himself, inclining to work for others or to help others.
    Ni The Analyst values punctuality. His day is usually well-planned; his plans most often are realised in precisely the manner in which he intends them to do. He does not love to hurry, or to fuss. Also, the Analyst knows how to profitably use the time which is available. He greatly values his free time, which he uses for creativity, for self-education, and intellectual stimulation. The Analyst can also see the ‘connection of times’ - he characteristically focuses on the negative tendencies of his world, and can (with the proper time) understand and analyse possible future problems.

    However, my defintions of these functions are unofficial and probably inaccurate.

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    ... and, because I can't edit my posts:

    Can you rate the accuracy of the uncovered on a scale of 1-10, 1 being awful and 10 being almost spot-on.

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    i would say 8, as long as the corrections suggested by everyone are put in and the whole thing is put together. I can make a"section" for these types of things in my site like i usually say i'll do, but then get so busy with life or lose interest I end up doing late one night.

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    I've added and tweaked a few things with the uncovered, so it should now be more balanced. I'm not quite sure if I interpreted your suggestions for improvement correctly. Usually, if something needs improving, I find it clearer if there is a summary at the end of a post telling me clearly what needs to be done.

    This is the uncovered so far:

    Behind that cold, rational mask there is a hidden sea of turbulence. The Analyst’s life is dominated by a) his desire to control his emotions, and b) many internal complexities and paradoxes.

    Usually, the child Analyst is extroverted. He uses his Fe and Se a lot. Commonly, he will have many friends, and probably will live a life of socialising. And he will not mind this. The Analyst can observe, with a ironic wit, the idiosyncrasies of life and can, to a degree, empathise and consider other people well due to his Ne.

    However, he matures and realises that the life of socialising does not provide him with what he wants. Thus, his Ti asserts himself. He withdraws, becomes more reserved. The stage at which he does this is variable.

    From that point onwards, the Analyst tries to suppress his emotions. He always fears that his Fe will take over, or that his Ne-related excitement will shine through. The Analyst will always view it that he became too panicky, or smiled too much. His Ne does not help at this stage. He cannot express himself in a controlled manner. He introverts logically, but extroverts intuitively. Thus, he is either well-controlled (in his opinion) or wild and uncontrolled (when extroverted). He changes, and this varies the psychological distance from him to others. It also makes him difficult to judge, or to know when to approach.

    The Analyst's Ti creates more tension in the form of sadness. If the Analyst cannot find a way to express or stir his emotions, then he will become more and more depressed. By 'expressing' or 'stirring', this is not a simple matter of laughing more. It is genuinely feeling empathy with someone. The Analyst can put himself in other's shoes due to his Ne, but frequently cannot put himself in their heart.

    Depression is an extreme case, in this example. However, the Analyst must express emotions to avoid sinking into clinical depression, even if the depression is only mild.

    The Analyst may or may not be religious. He may believe in higher purposes, or he may stubbornly defend his anti-religious beliefs. Either way, he ponders and analyses the questions of religion.

    If he is not religious, this couples with his orientation towards the future; therefore, he may begin to question his purpose in life. He seems to have no set personality, in his opinion (due to the Ti-Ne/Se). He tends to view the more serious side of life. His Ti means that he prefers to remain aloof, and thus he can feel lonely and without guidance.

    The aloofness is a product of the Ti-Si relationship. The Analyst associates, in his youth, idiots who carelessly risk their bodies to socialising. Since he has no wish to injure his body (out of the Si, and hidden agenda of remaining healthy) then he detaches and continues to associate friendliness with threat to the Si. Although this, by no means, should be interpreted that the Analyst cannot make friends, it is just as if he is afraid of socialising with common people, the practical jokers.

    There is another reason. The Analyst’s Se is not well-developed. This means that he has something of an inability to assert himself. Even if he shouts, his voice is not strong. It also makes him more susceptible to bullying - he prefers an environment where there is no discomfort from the external world, and bullying targets Se very well.

    This has another side-effect. The Analyst can have a tendency to wallow in self-pity and/or self-doubt, and lacks the Se authoritativeness to push onwards.

    Normally, the Analyst will follow the norms of politeness. This again causes a paradox. His Ti is not very good at emotionally helping others. However, the Analyst appears polite and thus seems to be a good listener. He is a good listener, but prefers not to be burdened by the problems of others that he can do nothing about. The Analyst, since he wishes to use his Fi is a socially accepted fashion, means that he is somewhat unassertive and thus cannot dismiss these people who come to him with problems.

    Continuing with the theme of Ti, it allows him to make ruthless and impersonal decisions. But he will forever chide himself, because the Ti-Ne relationship produces a need for justice. If his Ti wants to make cold decisions, his Ne justice and Fe warmth oppose him. He does not like to put ruthless acts into action (in others words, personally doing dirty deeds) because of the Se and because it may well be unhealthy (because there is risk). Of course, the pressure exerted by Ne and Fe is only slight, but enough to somewhat hinder the Analyst.

    The Analyst will usually try to make it appear as though his sensing is as strong as his intuition, which seems to be a root cause of his early extroversion (expressing Se so that it appear strong enough not to be a weakness). This causes another constant battle. He sometimes finds it difficult to distinguish between the two, and this can cause a ‘S-N identity disorder.’

    Finally, there can also be a T-F identity disorder produced as well. His Ne allows him to consider other people well. Usually he is sensitive in dealing with himself and others, due to the Si, Ne and the fact that he does not wish to harm others (he believes that they will have the same Se function-problem). Thus, he seems to empathise. However, he must control it, because his Ti tells him to. This is another source of confusion.

    In conclusion, the Analyst’s personality is one of disorder behind his remote, detached mask.

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    Now that was really well written. I don't know my type, but i liked it

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    I had an idea of something to add to the INTj uncovered.

    The Analyst acts very arrogantly with his Te, which means that he tries to help others more than he helps himself. So, what I propose is this:
    The Analyst tries to mould others into his pattern of thinking. He wants them to be as punctual, work-focussed, judicial and respective of other people as he is. He tries to influence them to change with his Te. However, he is not very assertive (being an introvert) and thus often fails to influence those people that he tries to reach. Then, he becomes dismayed, because not everyone has the same high standards, principles etc. as he does.

    Any thoughts on this and the INTj uncovered in general?

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    Also:

    Is there a way for someone to find out how cold (emotionally) they are? In other words, is there a test for how cold / calculating / aloof / critical / emotionless etc. you are?

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    And, also, are INTjs easily confused with ISTps? If so, how can one tell them apart?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    And, also, are INTjs easily confused with ISTps? If so, how can one tell them apart?
    Usually not, though occasionally both may have very controlled and limited body language and an inclination for debating just for the sake of an argument that you would find less often with ISTJs - at least that is my current theory. :|
    Is there a way for someone to find out how cold (emotionally) they are? In other words, is there a test for how cold / calculating / aloof / critical / emotionless etc. you are?
    I do not know any tests, and I am not quite convinced whether such tests based on one's own answers really can be worth much, of course I could be wrong...

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    My last two questions (the first about tests to measure coldness, the second about ISTps) where merely passing ideas.

    What I need more is your views on the suggestion about an INTj's Te.

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    I would also, as well as views on the manifestation of Te, tell me what The Analyst thinks of others. Is he a 'Everybody can do what they want' person, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro
    I dunno if this is a manifestation of Te
    The description of the seventh function of an INTj is that he tries to help others, or is more interested in helping others than helping himself. Also, an INTj acts arrogantly with his Te, so he would naturally be dismayed if he unconsciously cannot influence people.

    But it could be other functions. I would say that it would be extroverted functions that try to influence others. These are an INTj's extroverted functions:

    Ne Se Fe Te

    Now, the INTj's Se is his point of least resistance. He cannot really use Se very well. So it cannot be Se.

    Ne Fe Te

    I think now that my observation of influence is a result of the Ne-Fe-Te triple. The INTj sees potential in people (or thinks he sees potential in people) due to Ne. He wants others to become what he views as 'better people,' and he wants to create a world that satisfies his dual-seeking function (Fe). Thus, he sees potential (Ne) and has the will to change (Fe) and tries to influence the subject through Te, but ends up being dismayed because the Te is weaker than he initially thought.

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    A question:

    What do you think of the Ne-Fe-Te paradox?


    Another question:

    The PoLR (Place of Least Resistance) in The Analyst is the Se. So, does that mean that he cannot, for example, be aggressive? Perhaps I should use a metaphor to describe what I mean:

    Let us say that we have an INTj who is an infantry officer, commanding a platoon of about thirty men. He, being an INTj and thus perfectionistic, is a very good infantryman (ie. he shoots accurately, he can lead well etc.) and, being an INTj and thus intelligent, can make logical and rational descisions about tactics to employ. This INTj is put into a firefight (a firefight is when people are shooting directly at each other, not just when it is a duck-shoot for one side). Now, the question is this:

    Would the INTj freeze, panic (go wild) or remain calm (or rather, as calm as one can be in a firefight)?

    I mean this all in both a serious sense as well as a metaphorical sense. What would an INTj actually do? This metaphor could, of course, be applied to other forms of physical conflict such as muggings.

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    I have no military experience and I honestly don'y know how I would respond without preparation. I guess it would depend on whether or not I was "taken by surprise." If I were attacked randomly on the street my initial reaction would be a not knowing what to do because I would still be stunned by the fact that I am under attack. But, in war I'd pretty much always be on guard, ready for anything to happen. Whenever things get crazy around me I get into a zone that's very zen-like where there is nothing save me and my obstacles and I am aware of all of them and can "calculate" in an instant what my conditions are and what I need to do to get what I want accomplished. When I'm "in the zone" there is no fear, no emotion, no thinking, just action. I think I'd do very well in battle if I was in that state. I'd see all the enemy soldiers, give my orders, and watch as the enemy gets raped by my onslaught.

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    Sorry whenever I try to post the site logs me out wtf is going on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    The PoLR (Place of Least Resistance) in The Analyst is the Se. So, does that mean that he cannot, for example, be aggressive?
    The place of least resistance means that you can't resist your own aggression too. In common case, your can't resist something in such aspect adequately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhe
    Would the INTj freeze, panic (go wild) or remain calm (or rather, as calm as one can be in a firefight)?
    Sensing is an irrational thing. This leads into confusion -- when to start fighting, when to stop fighting, and how to arrange forces during a fight which appears irrationally. But the creative intuition of INTj can give him a hint about possibility of a fight. So he can plan a fight before it appears. Usually.

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