Pride & Prejudice

[UDP]

The modern (?) movie of it is playing right now.

Anyone want to take a stab at the types?

[UDP]

In comparision to the BBC version, the types seem different.

[Dioklecian]

THe book is from an INTP about INTPs from what I have heard.

[aestrivex]

what an awful book this was. i will never forgive my english teacher last year for making me read it.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I haven't read the book or seen the modern version, but I saw the BBC version about 2 weeks ago - I made notes on the types, which seems too much of a coincidence .

Based on that version, my preliminary guesses :

Mr. Bennett - ESTj almost certainly
Mrs. Bennet - I originally thought ESFj, but then ISFj - ENFj is a possibility. Maybe an unstable ESFj?
Darcy: INTj (though an aristocratic to begin with )
Georgina, Darcy's sister: ESFj
Elizabeth\Lizzie - ENTp
Her Sisters:
Jane, the eldest: ENFp
Lydia, the youngest: ISFp
Mary: INTp
Kitty: ISFj?

Collins, the vicar: INFp

[UDP]

THe book is from an INTP about INTPs from what I have heard.

INTPs ?

[Dioklecian]

THe book is from an INTP about INTPs from what I have heard.

INTPs ?

Author and the 2 main characters, Darcy and the lady. Her sister is ESFJ I think. I haven't read the whole things. Just some parts when I had the book around.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Also:
Wickham (the scoundrel who runs away with Lydia and ends up marrying her): ESTp
Mr. Bingley - Darcy's friend, who marries Jane: an airheaded ESTj
Caroline, Bingley's sister, who tries to prevent Jane marrying Bingley - ESFp
Lady De Bough - the strict old woman who tries to prevent Darcy + Lizzie getting married - ISTj

[Not A Communist Shill]

THe book is from an INTP about INTPs from what I have heard.

INTPs ?

Author and the 2 main characters, Darcy and the lady. Her sister is ESFJ I think. I haven't read the whole things. Just some parts when I had the book around.

I think you mean Jane - she seems like a dutiful version of Lizzie. 'I must do what's best for my family' + she also doesn't like to think ill of people's actions (from the BBC film anyway).

[UDP]

THe book is from an INTP about INTPs from what I have heard.

INTPs ?

Author and the 2 main characters, Darcy and the lady. Her sister is ESFJ I think. I haven't read the whole things. Just some parts when I had the book around.

I doubt a pair of ILI's would fit for this story.

[UDP]

Also:
Wickham (the scoundrel who runs away with Lydia and ends up marrying her): ESTp
Mr. Bingley - Darcy's friend, who marries Jane: an airheaded ESTj
Caroline, Bingley's sister, who tries to prevent Jane marrying Bingley - ESFp
Lady De Bough - the strict old woman who tries to prevent Darcy + Lizzie getting married - ISTj

Those really came through for the new version I saw.
(I wouldn't say B was an airhead, though)

When Darcy was helping Bingley practice for the proposal, it reminded me a lot of helping out F types. But it is funny you say ESTj, because his character really made me think ESTj, his appearance, facial expressions, everything. His smile reminded me of ESTj smile, and it seemed somewhat like duality with that other daugher, INFj -- Elizebeth said "She barely even reveals her feelings to me" --- leading, IMO.


Mm, and the older "Aunt" was a ... .... an ISTj aristocrat.


PS: I could see caroline as an ESFp. That interplay seemed familiar.

[Not A Communist Shill]

An airheaded ESTj on paper is an ENFp - but as I didn't see any direct evidence for that, I thought ESTj. He seems oblivious to the sinister intent behind people's remarks, Jane's love for him, his own feelings + his sister's deception etc. An INTj would more likely have a quiet seethe and an 'artificial smile'.

Jane + Bingley also seem similar to each other (same quadra?) - they both seem quite hopeful.

[Not A Communist Shill]

THe book is from an INTP about INTPs from what I have heard.

INTPs ?

Author and the 2 main characters, Darcy and the lady. Her sister is ESFJ I think. I haven't read the whole things. Just some parts when I had the book around.

I doubt a pair of ILI's would fit for this story.

The book is about mocking social relationships + social rank based on birth - not INTp at all. The two main characters seem to be in a seperate world to everyone else - they seem like Alpha NT mirrors - they are cold and analytical in their observations about all the social tomfoolery.

[UDP]

The casting, imo, was different for the two movies.
ESTj for Bingley made sense in the latest one, don't remember the BBC.

Darcy REALLY made me think LII in the latest one, he looked a lot more LII than in the BBC. BBC made him look and appear a little more ST, perhaps LSI. But maybe even LII there. His appearance in the latest movie, though, seemeve very IJ, very LII - lanky, thin. Cerebral.

Taking his Fi role from his aggressive aunt...
I think that would be more the case as opposed to both of them being LSI



As for Elisabeth.... I don't know what to say.
What was her father's type? What was that relationship.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I was more certain of Mr. Bennet's (Lizzie's father) than any other - he's almost the archetypcal ESTj, a Victorian gentleman who believes in hard work and nothing but facts. Throughout the BBC thing he was objective + warm - he said what he thought and wasn't to be persuaded by other people's illogic + emotions.

[UDP]

I don't know if Elizabeth is ENTp or not. She is smart and mature (doesn't strike me as an infantile), and gets along with her father very well. But I really don't know what to type her as.

[UDP]

I was more certain of Mr. Bennet's (Lizzie's father) than any other - he's almost the archetypcal ESTj, a Victorian gentleman who believes in hard work and nothing but facts. Throughout the BBC thing he was objective + warm - he said what he thought and wasn't to be persuaded by other people's illogic + emotions.

I remember that. Do you think Elizabeth could have taken that into an type of role?

[Not A Communist Shill]

Darcy REALLY made me think LII in the latest one, he looked a lot more LII than in the BBC. BBC made him look and appear a little more ST, perhaps LSI. But maybe even LII there. His appearance in the latest movie, though, seemeve very IJ, very LII - lanky, thin. Cerebral.

I think the actor (Colin Firth) is a Beta type - xNFx? so his body movements are difficult to ignore when typing. He seemed to get the essence of his character very well though - he knew how to portray ways of expressing themselves on society. Darcy is heavily influenced by his upbringing, but many of the things in the film that are aren't IMO.

There's a moment where he says 'Do you think I really care about your family?' which sounds aristocratic, but I thought that meant 'I want to marry in SPITE of what people think, this is how much I love you', rather than saying 'Can't you see how much I'm putting on the line here, your MINE, and all my influence can make your family disappear into obscurity'.

Also, he appreciates Lizzie's piano playing when no one else does - he doesn't evaluate her on class - this is , unless he's foolish in love .

ISTjs are also more talkative when speaking with their peers - Darcy seems disgusted + silent about them.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I was more certain of Mr. Bennet's (Lizzie's father) than any other - he's almost the archetypcal ESTj, a Victorian gentleman who believes in hard work and nothing but facts. Throughout the BBC thing he was objective + warm - he said what he thought and wasn't to be persuaded by other people's illogic + emotions.

I remember that. Do you think Elizabeth could have taken that into an type of role?

I think he was a strong influence on making her an independent + strong woman who reads books etc. (contrary to the time). I think Lizzie is very similar to Darcy, but she's more extroverted, obviously - so Alpha NT mirrors I'd guess, because Lizzie clearly isn't ESTp, especially compared to Wickham. I don't think there's much chance for Lizzie to show Infantile behaviour, but she shows + style kindness when considering her family's problems. I see two of the sisters as Gamma types, and they contrast strongly with the Alpha types - they seem more pissy, and play minor roles in the film. Jane also seems to be a resigned version of Lizzie (a ENFp\INFj), and acts as a Delta NF would in such a situation - a mediator.

If the book\film is from Lizzie's POV, that could explain some things in the style of narration? (a detached observer).

[UDP]

Darcy REALLY made me think LII in the latest one, he looked a lot more LII than in the BBC. BBC made him look and appear a little more ST, perhaps LSI. But maybe even LII there. His appearance in the latest movie, though, seemeve very IJ, very LII - lanky, thin. Cerebral.

I think the actor (Colin Firth) is a Beta type - xNFx? so his body movements are difficult to ignore when typing. He seemed to get the essence of his character very well though - he knew how to portray ways of expressing themselves on society. Darcy is heavily influenced by his upbringing, but many of the things in the film that are aren't IMO.

There's a moment where he says 'Do you think I really care about your family?' which sounds aristocratic, but I thought that meant 'I want to marry in SPITE of what people think, this is how much I love you', rather than saying 'Can't you see how much I'm putting on the line here, your MINE, and all my influence can make your family disappear into obscurity'.

Also, he appreciates Lizzie's piano playing when no one else does - he doesn't evaluate her on class - this is , unless he's foolish in love .

ISTjs are also more talkative when speaking with their peers - Darcy seems disgusted + silent about them.

I can relate to that

[Not A Communist Shill]

....

[FDG]

The modern (?) movie of it is playing right now.

Anyone want to take a stab at the types?

I don't remember the names because I did not read the book.

The girl-protagonist is ESFp.

The man is INTp.

[UDP]

Elizebeth
ESFp?

I don't think so.
She would have gone after Darcy much much more, especially with his status, assets, and reservedness.

Darcy had too approach her out of his Fi role.
Elizebeth had alot of pride, but I do not see here as " the politician"


Her reactions are defintely rational, sharp.
I would say INTj...
But I actually know an ESE who acted taht same way--defiant
bloody defiant.

She had a terrible vengence and hatedwhen people talked down to her from money or status.

Elize: She does seem alpha, though. I don't see gamma quadra at all.

[FDG]

Ah, ESFj INTj makes sense, too, actually.

[UDP]

wow.... I think I saw the latest version at full.... it is WAY too short. Too condensed



seeing it again,
Elizebeth's reactions are all ethically based. Prideful ethics, but not logics.

"and those are the words of a gentlemen??!"
to Darcy, during the heated argument following the first proposal

[Dioklecian]

THe book is from an INTP about INTPs from what I have heard.

INTPs ?

Author and the 2 main characters, Darcy and the lady. Her sister is ESFJ I think. I haven't read the whole things. Just some parts when I had the book around.

I doubt a pair of ILI's would fit for this story.

I don't know if you have read Balzack, but his books are very similar to pride and prejudice in nature.

[Not A Communist Shill]

wow.... I think I saw the latest version at full.... it is WAY too short. Too condensed



seeing it again,
Elizebeth's reactions are all ethically based. Prideful ethics, but not logics.

"and those are the words of a gentlemen??!"
to Darcy, during the heated argument following the first proposal

I've been thinking about this - I think Darcy represents how Jane Austen herself acted in public, and Elizabeth is how she wished she acted - she seems like an extroverted but pissed off INTj. Both Alpha extroverts are positivists though, which is obviously the problem. But Jane Austen didn't have socionics in mind .

Darcy pursues Elizabeth in the film (as was the norm) and she finds him repugnant - but based on the social norms of the day about rudeness, hence the 'are those the words of a gentlemen?' - with these considerations it's difficult to type. Also, I think the actress (in the BBC version) seems to be a negativist - the lines are spoken as she sees fit with her knowledge of the script. I'm gonna try and read this book next week sometime, and see what Elizabeth should really be like!

But, in the meantime, why not analyse the ESFps\ESFjs for comparision? I think Darcy's sister is a ESFj, even though she is only in for about five minutes - if this is Austen's characterisation of someone who truly knows Darcy, I don't see Elizabeth as ESFj. Not sure about INTj.

[Gilly]

I was more certain of Mr. Bennet's (Lizzie's father) than any other - he's almost the archetypcal ESTj, a Victorian gentleman who believes in hard work and nothing but facts. Throughout the BBC thing he was objective + warm - he said what he thought and wasn't to be persuaded by other people's illogic + emotions.

Elizabeth - SEI
Darcy - LII
Mr. Bennet - LSE
Mother - EIE
Jane: EII
Mary: IEE
Katherine: IEI
Lydia: SEE
Bingley: ESE
Lady Catherine: EIE
Wickham: SLE

[Not A Communist Shill]

I was more certain of Mr. Bennet's (Lizzie's father) than any other - he's almost the archetypcal ESTj, a Victorian gentleman who believes in hard work and nothing but facts. Throughout the BBC thing he was objective + warm - he said what he thought and wasn't to be persuaded by other people's illogic + emotions.

Elizabeth - SEI
Darcy - LII
Mr. Bennet - LSE
Mother - EIE
Jane: EII
Mary: IEE
Katherine: IEI
Lydia: SEE
Bingley: ESE
Lady Catherine: EIE
Wickham: SLE

I don't think SEI for Elizabeth really works - Lydia seems to be more SEI to me - she seems too naive to be SEE. I'm pretty sure Mary isn't from the same quadra as Jane - they seem quite different to each other.

[Gilly]

Remember that the attitudes of mirrors are diametrically opposed; they probably shouldn't seem much alike.

Why not SEI for Elizabeth? She's very down-to-earth, and shares what I have observed as a typical SEI sensory take on socializing: "We can manage pretty darn well, but the rules get old." (Fe creative)

Lydia is obviously irrational, ethical, and Se>Si IMO. Perhaps IEI would be better, but I thought she was more of an extrovert.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Maybe your're right. It's quite difficult to see how Elizabeth would act normally, without Darcy - I saw her as making detached observations of things that others couldn't see, but she is fooled by Darcy's personality like everyone else to begin with, so I'm not sure.

Lydia could be SEE, but I'm not sure Elizabeth and Lydia have the contrast expected from your typings - they seem to appreciate each other but are rarely together, so I don't know whether they avoid each other because of different quadra values etc.

[UDP]

The movie, for whateve reason, is on again tonight. So I'll watch it for a third time and see how it goes.


I agree that Elizebeth can seem like "an extroverted, pissed off INTj". ... but still I see emotion from her, a lot of emotion. She is not an ILI or an LII. She still most reminds me of a very very smart ESE I used to know most, as far as types I know.


I will elaborate later about what I think the characters are. I believe the crux of the story is of Darcy's LII role function, and I am willing to bet money such is why the story is so appealing among many women, especially ESEs.


"Mother - EIE " -- that is absolutely correct. Mrs. Bennet is an ENFj, she reminds me of an EIE I know well very much. sicknesses and all .

[UDP]

Critical opening exchanges:

Elizebeth asks Darcy to Dance first, he refuses, because he does not like dancing at all.

Darcy is later seen by E talking to Bingley, where he insults E's handsomeness

E confronts D later, and displays her wisdom, knowledge of poetry, and criticizes him for lack of dancing.



E visits here sick sister
Darcy's "accomplished woman" bit...
Very big on improving her mind...
E shows her smarts
Darcy comments about their figures - darcy is a proud man.

E says she dearly loves to laugh, wants to tease darcy about how he cannot fortive others for doing bad things etc.


Also at bingley's house...
((the other bennet gir is an INT, mary I think. Elizebeth is NOT an INT)
Darcy with the "hand" (ggaahh... it's on fire....) after assiting E into the carriage.



((at this point in the movie (collins at the bennet house), I see it as impossible for Darcy to be anything other than LII. Must be IJ, and is not delta, beta, or gamma. I don't see ILI or ESI. He reminds me way too much of myself, anyways. He shares all my standards for a woman!)

Now, I will get into this later, but some ESEs are very smart


E with wicham
"how cruel" -- sympathy


at the party...
dancing --- E remarks basically leads him to talking. "now it is your turn to say something". She makes fun of his unsociability. Darcy does classic LII and asks what she wants him to talk about.
Darcy talks about wicham....
E tries to figure out his character.... with questions
He is mysterious


,,,

something in the church --- does anyone know what passage of the bible was being read? It related directly to Darcy --- how through civility and friendship... a man doesn't approach with friendlyness, but suspicion. Something like that. I'm sure it has something to do with the motivation for the story via the author's eyes, it if was actually in the book. I don't know.

.....
Eliz is an E.
Liz talks about ethics in regard to his sister.


At Darcy's house, the block in strati's profile is thoroughly explained. What strikes me is that Darcy is on display in such a way that it displays some of his most attractive things in regard to an ESE: particularly his role function, and as above --- how he reacts so nicely, peacefully, with his family and home. His "Solar smile" --- "There is something nice about his mouth when he talks" or whatever E's uncle said. "Splendid fishing, good company..."


When she gets the letter at Darcy's house later on, she is emotional and crying. Lidia has run away with mister wickham.
(I almost want to say that E's Fe role is to be smart and thoughtful, especially because she respects her father very much (T), and sees her mother and other younger sisters as silly, etc. I am tempted to say she is a very Fe subtype ESE.... but I am not confident in saying that).

Definitely strikes me as EJ.... but there is little trace of being a caregiver. (Probably because the author didn't want to portray her as a typical woman, even though she is representing ESE values in presenting Darcy as a strong LII).

Maybe ENTj for Eliz?
Maybe ESTj also for Eliz?
Not ENFj, I don't think.


I feel like saying Eliz is a very smart ESE, who has taken a strong role from her father, and her family needing her to be strong and 'not silly'... and more of a T type. She gets along with her father very well.
It seems strange, seeing the ESE having to have someone approach it, and not it approach the LII.
Maybe Eliz is another EJ type - I was going to say EN... but she doesn't strike me as a victim. And it should be remembered that she did ask Darcy first to dance -- she initiated the contact. so hmm.....


I did see somewhat of a cargiver instinct --- when she accepted the propsal the second time, she immediately took his hand and kissed it -- noting it was cold.


Eliz is still very hard to type. She comes across as a J type though, and not irrational. It seems like her real beef with Darcy was on the plane of ethics. She made an initial "rash" decision (not uncharacteristic of ESE), but so did Darcy. In some ways she seems like an LII, but I don't really get that vibe from her.


(Do any female LIIs relate to Elizebeth?)


ESTj - Maybe. Doesn't strike me as an ST, but possible.
ENTj - Maybe. Fi dual seeking??
ENFj - I doubt it. Doesn't seem Beta or seeking Se from an ISTj. Not into dramatics in the beta way
ESFj - ? I feel like saying ESE, but I cannot outrightly say it right now.
INFj - No, that's her sister, the eldest (Jane?) "She barely tells her feelings to me".
ISFj - I don't see Se creative, or wanting an ENTj dual.
ISTj - Hmm.... Ti maybe, but again with the Se. Don't see it.
INTj - Perhaps. Seems very extraverted and comfortable with other people, and emotions, to be an LII. Doesn't strike me as an LII.


Elizebeth strikes me as someone I'd be attraced to, ESPECIALLY in the modern/latest movie.



I'll go over this again, one last time, later. I want to read the strati profile to see something...

[Not A Communist Shill]

Mary is the one who is always on the piano and looks cross about something. I sais she was INTp, so I agree with you . I think Mary and Kitty (ISFj) form the Gamma part of the house, with Kitty being close to Lydia, who I said ISFp, Gilligan ESFp. Mr. Bennett calls these three 'the silly girls', and seems to favour Jane + Elizabeth. I don't think Elizabeth is ENTj, but I can slightly see ESFj - I think there's more to it then that though. She seems like an Alpha hybrid of how Jane Austen herself would like to be - with a cool analysis, but able to reach out to people ( + ) without wasting energy on those who seek to put her down etc. . I think she contrasts strongly with the 'silly girls', and Jane is similar to her, but is more Delta NF in attitude (both are hopeful, but Jane is more optimistic about people's intentions, or more naive).

(From my experience with ESFjs, they are more happy with people they are familiar with, but can seem lost when they meet a social situation they are unfamiliar with - I'm not sure ESFjs would respond in such a way).

[UDP]

This whole story seems to be a play on alpha rational dual couple in one way or another. I don't know which side the author is on... but... I don't know, it just seems to stand out to me.

Block EGO * the 1st position * program function * the "ethics of emotions"

Stormy emotions on the strong volitional pressure, "volitional emotionalism" and "emotional will". Representatives this type consider necessary to hide neither their of emotion nor of their desires: both that and, etc. - naturally and it is expressed from the good motive, however, so that in this of poor? Therefore increasingly better and increasingly worse of the fact that occurs with them, it becomes immediate known for that surrounding.

Maybe I am being baised.
In the movie anways, Kiera Knightly displayed her emotions quoite well. Yes, she was logical and smart, and 'of an improved mind'. But the facial expressions of that character seemed very Fe to me.


Maybe it's just because the actress has a very attractive face to me.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I've just seen the 2005 version of the film - I thought it was pretty rubbish. I've looked at the text of the book and found that the 1995 version follows the book almost word for word, but leaves out the narration, which is about 5% of the book. I obviously think the original film is more complete and true to the original, but the way things are acted may be misleading. I think Keira Knightly is ENFj and her interpretation has a lot of in the speech, facial expressions, body movement etc. - if I'd seen this movie first, I'd have a completely different view for the type, probably ESFj, but the film goes so fast with little attention to character, I can't really properly evaluate.

Here's a quote (narration) from the book, from just after the Darcy remark at the dance about Elizabeth being 'not handsome enough to tempt me':

Mr Darcy walked off; and Elizabeth remained with no very cordial feelings towards him. She told the story with great spirit among her friends; for she had a lively, playful disposition; who delighted in anything ridiculous.

This is clearly Alpha, but almost certainly not INTj. It could conceivably be any other Alpha type though.

[UDP]

Kiera must have an Fe face... because I find it extremely beautiful at times --- angular and how she uses her eyes.



I think I am pretty solid on seeing Lizzy as an extremely smart ESE -- they do exist and I used to know one. But that is the 2005 Movie version. I have aquired the text from my library today, so I will see how it reads.


Bingely's sister is definitely an ESFp in the 2005 movie

[UDP]

I've just seen the 2005 version of the film - I thought it was pretty rubbish. I've looked at the text of the book and found that the 1995 version follows the book almost word for word, but leaves out the narration, which is about 5% of the book. I obviously think the original film is more complete and true to the original, but the way things are acted may be misleading. I think Keira Knightly is ENFj and her interpretation has a lot of in the speech, facial expressions, body movement etc. - if I'd seen this movie first, I'd have a completely different view for the type, probably ESFj, but the film goes so fast with little attention to character, I can't really properly evaluate.

It seems like without knowing of the other movie, or book , the 2005 version would be quite shallow and rushed. I would really have liekd to seen a remake BBC style.

[UDP]

I will present a list of arguments for Elizebeth Bennett being ESFj, and then we can critique them


Fe with Ne hidden agenda --- clearly respects her father's thoughts more than her mother. Her father values books, and so does she. He values wit and treats her mother as silly, and she sees things in such a way. (I have seen more than on ESFj who has such a relationship with her father -- especilaly in terms of intelligence it seems.)

(I wonder if there is a direct relation there... because the one ESFj I know who avoids thinking in depth has a father (likely also ESFj or ESTj), is the same).


Emotional, giddy outbursts -- when she first sees Mr Darcy, and first see's Darcy's estate. (That is soley based on the movie... actually, all of it thus far is based on the latest movie. It seems to be in our monthly rotation, or whatever it is).



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More to come. Feel free to post comments and critiques.

[UDP]

Her father also expresses a cynicism about relationship, as opposed to her mother who obviously takes a more superficial and Se approach to relationships.