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Thread: LII-ESE Duality Relations: discussion, examples (INTj and ESFj)

  1. #241
    skosh's Avatar
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    I wish there were something hopeful I could say about ESE-LII duality beyond distant supportive companionship. God forbid the ESFj woman you take a liking to is of a different ethnicity and/or elevated social stature. Dear LII guy, you will naturally feel emboldened because you can speak and interact with them like nobody else can. You will feel encouraged by their responsiveness, the way they validate you with their glare. You will note the way they pout to get what they want. You will follow orders. If you're lucky, you'll reach a stage where they accept your need for space and forgive your peccadilloes. They never cease loving you, even long after you "disappoint" them. However, none of this actually means you get the girl. That's the truly sad part of ESE-LII duality. The stars must be perfectly aligned.

    A deep cynicism sets in, because you will notice when interacting with a beautiful ESFj girl for a period of time, they do something you always felt was impossible: they know exactly how to care for you. You will find other types of women haven't the foggiest idea of your wants and needs. ESFj women do it with ease and sincerity. They are perfection. But again, there had better be next to no mitigating circumstances, because otherwise you can forget actually having them. From the compendium of duality descriptions posted here I noted one (albeit poor) translation reading: "Ethical extroverts, women flee from their complement, losing hope and wanting to break off is not clear for them to bond. Logical introverts start chasing, but usually not at once and therefore almost always late."

    Relatedly, when you look at the MBTI side of this dyad, specifically the instinct theory, there are other signs your sexual compatibility will depend on social stature as well. LII/INTj/INTPs fall under "sexual-secure" or "secure-sexual," while your ESE/ESFj/ESFJ love is a solid "secure-social." You may experience a sense of relief because you need not try as hard to connect with your partner. They get your sexual subtlety, your secure-sexual side - which, lets face it, has a feminine/domestic resemblance. However, be mindful, if you don't yet have the trust and rapport, and let too much stress and sexual frustration build, the poles become inverted: your sexual-secure side can frighten them. What's more, those traits of passion and playfulness that attract other types of girls do not persuade your partner as much, who is likely to bond/marry for the security.

    Now, this is not to say that my own disappointing experiences are diagnostic of this dyad. Things are likely to work splendidly if the partners have grown up together. I found myself ignoring whispers of ESE-LII duality fizzling out due to obstinate/result type behavior. You don't court the woman of your dreams with a social theory in mind, you just go for it. There are some signs of hope from surveys on dual relationships. One suggests ESE-LII is the only dualization pair that has a tendency towards fidelity.

    I have interacted with many ESFjs over the years, at work, online, and elsewhere. Women I fancy do tend to find me attractive too. I try to dress nice, comport myself, cut loose, cajole them, liven things up, etc. But here I sit, still no ESFj dream girl to call my own. You always see them with some guy who could probably make do without them.
    Last edited by skosh; 03-17-2021 at 02:59 AM.

  2. #242
    PinKDiGiT18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    I wish there were something hopeful I could say about ESE-LII duality beyond distant supportive companionship. God forbid the ESFj woman you take a liking to is of a different ethnicity and/or elevated social stature. Dear LII guy, you will naturally feel emboldened because you can speak and interact with them like nobody else can. You will feel encouraged by their responsiveness, the way they validate you with their glare. You will note the way they pout to get what they want. You will follow orders. If you're lucky, you'll reach a stage where they accept your need for space and forgive your peccadilloes. They never cease loving you, even long after you "disappoint" them. However, none of this actually means you get the girl. That's the truly sad part of ESE-LII duality. The stars must be perfectly aligned.

    A deep cynicism sets in, because you will notice when interacting with a beautiful ESFj girl for a period of time, they do something you always felt was impossible: they know exactly how to care for you. You will find other types of women haven't the foggiest idea of your wants and needs. ESFj women do it with ease and sincerity. They are perfection. But again, there had better be next to no mitigating circumstances, because otherwise you can forget actually having them. From the compendium of duality descriptions posted here I noted one (albeit poor) translation reading: "Ethical extroverts, women flee from their complement, losing hope and wanting to break off is not clear for them to bond. Logical introverts start chasing, but usually not at once and therefore almost always late."

    Relatedly, when you look at the MBTI side of this dyad, specifically the instinct theory, there are other signs your sexual compatibility will depend on social stature as well. LII/INTj/INTPs fall under "sexual-secure" or "secure-sexual," while your ESE/ESFj/ESFJ love is a solid "secure-social." You may experience a sense of relief because you need not try as hard to connect with your partner. They get your sexual subtlety, your secure-sexual side - which, lets face it, has a feminine/domestic resemblance. However, be mindful, if you don't yet have the trust and rapport, and let too much stress and sexual frustration build, the poles become inverted: your sexual-secure side can frighten them. What's more, those traits of passion and playfulness that attract other types of girls do not persuade your partner as much, who is likely to bond/marry for the security.

    Now, this is not to say that my own disappointing experiences are diagnostic of this dyad. Things are likely to work splendidly if the partners have grown up together. I found myself ignoring whispers of ESE-LII duality fizzling out due to obstinate/result type behavior. You don't court the woman of your dreams with a social theory in mind, you just go for it. There are some signs of hope from surveys on dual relationships. One suggests ESE-LII is the only dualization pair that has a tendency towards fidelity.

    I have interacted with many ESFjs over the years, at work, online, and elsewhere. Women I fancy do tend to find me attractive too. I try to dress nice, comport myself, cut loose, cajole them, liven things up, etc. But here I sit, still no ESFj dream girl to call my own. You always see them with some guy who could probably make do without them.
    I hope you find your ESFj. This was ridiculously eloquent and beautiful.

  3. #243
    ouronis's Avatar
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    @skosh What exactly do they want if not playfulness and security? Does "security" mean they want to marry rich guys?

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    One suggests ESE-LII is the only dualization pair that has a tendency towards fidelity.
    I cant see that in the link you share, can you share a more spesific link so we can understand how you are making that conclusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    From the compendium of duality descriptions posted here I noted one (albeit poor) translation reading: "Ethical extroverts, women flee from their complement, losing hope and wanting to break off is not clear for them to bond. Logical introverts start chasing, but usually not at once and therefore almost always late."
    About infidelity, I think it NTR but if it has to be related to socionics, then it is about Fe and Se:

    Fe

    Mania - prolonged emotional ecstasy, obsession with love, over-valuation of its significance, which leads to strong emotional shocks, reckless actions, and even dramas. This feeling is strong, possessive, demanding, thirsty for complete reciprocity, but also capable of many compromises. This love is very enduring, even in those cases when it is unrequited. Often it is capable of heroism and sacrifice, and even unconditional devotion. It is full of contradictions, since it is very dependent on changeable moods. Quarrels may be frequent with this kind of love, as well as sharp contrasts in behavior, even fleeting infidelity. It is the cause for unpredictable actions and disregard for generally accepted norms of behavior. Mania love exists since ancient times, but it became most widespread in the 20th century in Western Europe after the sexual revolution, whose followers called for the emancipation of the senses and the denial of the cold bourgeois rationality. It has not lost its relevance in our pragmatic time, though it has become less dramatic.
    Btw, Ti's job is not to prevent fights/quarrels but make the relationship stable despite the fights/quarrels.

    Se:

    Victoria - this type of erotic behavior is the most distant from the intellectual and spiritual needs than others. It lacks in depth and creativity. It is based on a pleasant feeling of conquering the object of one's feelings. This is a kind of game-struggle. If the conquered person does not resist, interest towards him or her is quickly lost. For introverts or ambiverts (less sociable people) this feeling can be very stable and reliable, when a loved one is regarded as a necessary possession. Attention to the partner manifests as never-ending demands, which imply the best of intentions. This feeling can be quite ego-centric, sometimes distant from compassion. In extroverts (more outgoing people) this form of love often lacks consistency, since the pursuit of sexual diversity that gives a sense of the joy of new victories is inherent to it. The partner is often seen as an enemy or as a fortress, that is taken by storm. The partner is looked down upon, without mercy, and without any desire to achieve full mutual understanding. This form of love originated in ancient Greece. It was most popular during the times of slavery. Currently, in more developed and spiritual societies, it loses its popularity. In American culture, after the sexual revolution, the extroverted form of this love has gained popularity, and has not lost its relevance to the moment. In an archaic form, the introverted form of this type of love persists in societies that traditionally assign women a secondary role.
    EDIT: I found the link, ESE seems like the most faithful Fe ego or 4D Fe by far, interesting.
    Last edited by myresearch; 05-03-2021 at 05:54 PM.

  5. #245
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