I do, er, I would if I ever had the chance to fall in love.Originally Posted by Kim
I do, er, I would if I ever had the chance to fall in love.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
On the grounds that only sociopaths are without emotions, I have questions: How do you handle your emotions? Do you handle your emotions? How would define the "handling" of an emotion? When the emotions come, do they run the show? Can you look past them? Do you suppress your emotions? If you maintain your composure when being imbibed with emotion, how are you not emulating us? If you're not emulating, what is the difference? When you lose control as a result of being overcome with emotions, how does it differ from us freaking out? Is yours just expected? Are you already simply written off as an emotional person? Is it timing, is it more appropriate? Are you just always caught up in a continual outburst that their isn't a composed state to compare it to? Are you better off letting your emotions rule you? Is it any better knowing when to put emotions aside? Can you always put them aside? Have you ever put them aside? How often are you logical? How often do you confuse logic with emotional reasoning? Do you allow yourself to believe that because you someday sort through your feelings to make space for more that you are logical, that you have used logic? How do you expect someone to just let the emotions come? How about if they aren't there? What if when you see them, they exist, and when you don't they are no longer seen? What if one emotion bleeds out once, and then never again? What if what we think of emotion is the same as what you think of logic? What if we try to look past emotion to see the logical progressors of a situation? What if you try to look past the logical moves in a situation to see what your feelings tell you? Do you not only wish you could wield logic when it is wielding against you? Is that anything more than self defense? Do you want to become logical? Would you ever be able to? What happens when someone says that they don't understand why you did an absolutely stupid thing when every reasonable option suggested otherwise? What is the point of repeating a procedure that has never, isn't, and in all likelyhood never will work? Is that logical? What if I asked the right question? Where would you set yourself? Would you be satisfied knowing that things are what they are? Do you have that belief? What if you really understood what I was saying? What if its a big fucking paradox? What really matters?Is it really because you assume that they assume or is it because the emotions are just too much for you to handle in the moment (in which case you really can't blame it on the person who just happens to display emotions, but might not be aware of the effect it has on you)? A woman who is coy and shy is less of an emotional threat perhaps? I'm just wondering. ´i tend to enjoy it especially if it is coy but exxps seem to come in like emotional conquerors which just makes me want to shoot them down because they presume too much (the kind of girl that just assumes she can make you like her)
This also sounds somewhat clinical to me. :wink:In my mind I had finally beaten the most worthy conquest I could find. Mwahhhahahahhahahah.
Doesn't anyone here ever fall in love?? Sleepless nights?? Butterflies when there is an e-mail in your inbox?? Head over heels I LOVE this person???
Is it just me??
:wink:
Me first, or you?
Who listens to who?
Who is listening?
Who hears?
Why?
thing.
This annoys me. Heh. I can just see how stubborn I would get if someone told me that. "Oh, we'll just see about that, now won't we?" Heh. Heh. Heh.You enjoy what?
It works much more often than not!but exxps seem to come in like emotional conquerors which just makes me want to shoot them down because they presume too much (the kind of girl that just assumes she can make you like her)
It worked with my Intj, though he didn't know it... he didn't like my attitude but then he saw me have a nervous breakdown and realized that I was a lot more vunerable than I appreared. Plus I started easing up on the alcohol at about that time, so he was able to see the more rational and laid back side of me (I get waaaayyyyyyyy too much energy when I drink!). My point is that in his mind he was changing his opinion of me based on new knowledge. In my mind I had finally beaten the most worthy conquest I could find. Mwahhhahahahhahahah.
thing.
Yes and no. I fall in love... but usually it's for men I don't "approve" of (i.e. wouldn't work out, see prev post). I have trouble controlling it and it turns into a big depressing ordeal (usually unbeknownst to the other person). Right now I've got my eye on an ESFj who I am not in love with and I can't for the life of me figure out why. So, I'm going to try my plan. Right now I'm waiting to get to know him a little bit better to make sure I have no glaring objections. Will I be able to stay in this emotionally neutral state? I don't know.Doesn't anyone here ever fall in love?? Sleepless nights?? Butterflies when there is an e-mail in your inbox?? Head over heels I LOVE this person???
Is it just me??
I don't know about this fear of intimacy you folks keep talking about. Other INTjs comment, please? With me it's more not knowing how to get to intimacy... or at most, fear of making a move towards intimacy and then being rejected. I like intimacy, it's honest (or should be).
Generally, I don't so much keep them locked up as I analyze them to death. Sometimes, if I let myself, I can reason myself out of love or other emotions. Also, my emotions can be changed in the right environment or with the right people; I've learned to recognize that and seek those conditions out to put myself in a better mood.
Not necessarily duality. Like I said, I do fall in love, if my reason and emotions aren't conflicting and I'm comfortable with the people I'm with, I don't have so much of a problem expressing it.
Umm... that's never happened to me.
With friends and relatives, I kind of feel awkward, especially if there's hugging involved, but I've gotten better about it as I've gotten older.
That's how I react when my mother (or friend, or friend's mother, or aunt, or any other female aquaintence so it seems) tries to set me up with someone. Finally I just told her: "I am detirmined not to marry anyone you set me up with!" Not that I mind being introduced to eligible bachlors, but she shouldn't tell me about it or make what she's trying to do obvious.yes!
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
Excaliburgirl, what are some reasons you do not approve of certain people?
What attracts you to people you do not approve of?
Is it not knowing how to become intimate or having difficulty with maintaining intimacy that is more difficult?
Sorry for the twenty questions, I just think you could be onto something here.
Entp
ILE
Well, it's just a compatability issue.Excaliburgirl, what are some reasons you do not approve of certain people?
What attracts you to people you do not approve of?
Is it not knowing how to become intimate or having difficulty with maintaining intimacy that is more difficult?
Sorry for the twenty questions, I just think you could be onto something here.
For example, I was attracted to an ESTp I know. He was hot and charming and exciting, but when I was honest with myself I knew that our values and interests were too different (he's interested in drinking, sex, and racing) and I would not have been able to put up with his Se trips for long.
On intimacy, it's hard for me to say, since I haven't been in a "real" relationship. I would expect it's the initiating intimacy that's the hard part. Though while maintaining it, the other person would have to understand that sometimes I clam up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that things have changed.
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
All I'm saying is that you see a presumption where they might not be one. As for the second paragraph, you are giving me too much credit. I don't think anyone should be romantically interested in a type, in fact. I'm commenting on generalizaton you make about my type. Not to convince you to seek them out, but to point out that your generalization might not be all that justified. I don't want people to think that certain types run around manipulating people in a desperate attempt to make the person like them.
Wow, there are a lot of good ideas being tossed around here. I think the whole aversion to touch issue deserves it's own thread, which I'll get at in a minute... More importantly, there seems to be a debate about emtions between the Fs and the Ts.
I can speak a little bit for both sides because I'm pretty damn close to right in the middle between the two, just barely favoring the T side on the fence.
I decide who I will have feelings for and who I will not. Sometimes my emotions get kinda sneaky and I find myself very attracted to a person who I do not wish to be attracted to, but I find that it's easy enough to fix. Getting to him them better is a surefire way to lose interest most of the time. I generally prefer to just focus my feeling towards my husband. Channeling works quite well.
I used to be a very emotional person. I think as a teen and even as a young adult, typing can be difficult because there's sooooo much stress and physiologically our brain and body chemistry is in upheaval. Plus I had some brain disorders that were untreated.
At this point in time, I try to allow myself to feel however I feel and not try to fight it, but a part of my mind is sectioned off. It's the decision making part of my brain, and this strategy has worked quite nicely for me. If there is something my emotional mind wants, it makes a request of my rational mind. The request may or may not be granted. My rational mind tries to give consideration to what my emotional mind wants at all times, but understands that we can't always do what we feel like doing. Sometimes things hurt. That's just the nature of the universe. We can't experience pleasure without also experiencing pain.
As far as what I was saying about Josh being a conquest... it's not like I came right out and told him that. It's just a fun little game I play in my mind. I always automatically assume that I can have anyone I want. I understand that this is not true, and that I will experience failure from time to time, but I do not allow that fear of rejection to influence who I am interested in. If it does not appear that someone I want is interested in me (and I usually only want the ones that seem apathetic... the ones that want me are too easy, very boring, and often irritating), I do not let that deter my efforts. If, however, I try to get with that person and he makes it seem like he's not interested in me, then I decide that he's too much effort and move on to the next.
So you see, it's not that I actually believe that everyone wants me. But if I am single and looking to hook up with a person, I do not let the appearance of a lack of interest influence my decision about whether or not I should try to initiate something.
Why in the world are you so paranoid? I'm repeating what I was told by an INTj and it could certainly be a personal and not a type-related thing. Why can't you accept that some people don't want to change others, they just want to understand where they are coming fromPi think people just like to feel like they are saving intjs from themselves. it is more like what you said an "i'm not sure this is viable" type deal
Chill, brother, nobody is out to get you...
You weren't an ass, but that intimacy comment was based on something I wrote earlier, so I wanted to respond. It's important to me that people understand that I don't want to change the INTjs I know. I just want to know where they are coming from and what goes on in their inner world. I'm not looking for tools to manipulate them and your comment indicated that you think people want to do that.it's not that others want to change me it's that they will by their mere presence. why are you responding to me though? i am really trying to not be a ass. i guess it didn't workWhy can't you accept that some people don't want to change others, they just want to understand where they are coming fromP
Chill, brother, nobody is out to get you...sorry
I might have jumped to my own defense where it wasn't needed. Just call ME paranoid then.
:wink:
Heh.
Intj's do have that certain something that gets people interested in them. So people get interested in them but then they blow people off for various reasons, either by intention or inadvertently. And we all want to know why! Enquiring minds want to know!!
Look at all the threads in Alpha that are dedicated to analyzing intj idiosyncrasies!
Entp
ILE
This reminds me of one annoyance I have about instant messengers: Sometimes someone will get me on their contact list, and then they'll message me about stupid stuff all the time that I'm not interested in. Send me URLs they found funny. Send me MP3 files they like. I guess these would fall under the category of people that I end up "blowing off".Intj's do have that certain something that gets people interested in them. So people get interested in them but then they blow people off for various reasons, either by intention or inadvertently. And we all want to know why! Enquiring minds want to know!!
INTJ
In my opinion, ESFj's are the ladies of the types looking for that illustrious gentleman. INTj's certainly put the gentle into gentleman and are respected for theircompetence.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
Personal opinion. Gulenko had his own ideas about that. I think he assumed that you should be must attracted to your dual or something... which obviously doesn't happen. But, don't you notice that people on here (or in real life) tend to end up in their own group (or try to)?I thought the whole point of the erotic attitude groups is that it doesn't work within the group.
How long until ESFj realizes duality with an INTj?
Any theories on how much time it takes for an ESFj to realize that there's something deeper between her/him and an INTj? I've read 45 minutes for dualization, but in my experience, it usually takes at least 5 or 6 interactions of more than an hour for the ESFj to start paying attention. Of course, that may be due to the fact that ESFjs fall in love with everyone they meet and it may be hard for them to recognize a true connection as they get older as there isn't an immediate spark, and they have too many other "false" loves to be able to differentiate easily. Fortunately (or unfortunately) my knowledge of socionics makes it easy for me to be attracted to ESFjs, which has helped in my forcing the relationship past the initial awkward phase.
Unfortunately, I'm starting to discover that by the time many ESFjs begin to realize what it is their looking for in another person, they're already severely scarred by bad relationships with ESTps or ISTjs and have an aversion to any display of the Ti function, making it hard to get them to trust an INTj. In one such instance it took 4+ months of constant interaction at work for her to actually begin to feel something for me, as she had gone through a civil, but unpleasant divorce with an ISTj at age 23. But, at that point I had already lost interest because of the emotional issues she constantly dealt with and my eventual opinion of her that she was a bit too promiscuous for my tastes, which is an unfortunate criticism I've had of more than one ESFj.
Duals tend to not notice each other. When they are in a relationship, and in the same room with other people, they notice each other even less. After a bad day, or while depressed, they can recharge each other by being in close, "hand-holding" proximity for about 45 minutes. They don't need to say anything to each other.
thing.
Video on INTj-ESFj duality (LII-ESE)
INTj receiving Fe and Si from a Fe EJ
Last edited by silke; 04-22-2014 at 05:33 PM. Reason: updated link
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
*Wonders how Expat stumbled upon this video*
Heh, yeah I guess that works. Although my immediate thought was ENTp for the "EJ". I guess an ENTp wouldn't be so... emotive?
Nice. I can't beat that, but here's a real-life example (probably more the opposite - an ESFj receiving TiNe from an INTj):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz9NteXpERA&mode=related&search=[/youtube]
Re: Video on ESFj-INTj duality
He does strike me as rather more ENFj than ESFj.
Simple -- I watched the movie, Body Double.
Well, the singer is not necessarily EJ, he may well be ENTp, I just thought that he was acting towards the "INTj" as a Fe EJ would, making him comfortable in the emotional atmosphere of the surroundings. And "relax" is a Si theme.
Re: Video on ESFj-INTj duality
He does, definitely -- but the "relax" theme and his concern about the immediate emotional atmosphere suggest ESFj.He does strike me as rather more ENFj than ESFj.
yeah, i always thought Milo was an INTj just from pics and snippets. Also reminds me of UDP.
whoa! That's some good typing.yeah, i always thought Milo was an INTj just from pics and snippets. Also reminds me of UDP.
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
Looking for examples of INTj ESFj couples
Ne+Si are very easy to spot, IMO/IME. But seeing a rational subtype couple is not at all. Does anyone know of any real life examples? Have you seen any? Are any portrayed in films, or real life couples?
Just looking for some examples here.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Rick lists Nicole Kidman as LII and Tom Cruise as ESE. (He mentions an alternate typing of Tom Cruise as EIE. Years ago, when I saw Rain Man, I thought he was EIE).
Re: INTj-Ti & ESFj-Fe ?? Looking for examples
I dunno about celebrity couples, but I can describe one in real life. My girlfriend is ESE.
I find that she appreciates my style of irony better than a Fi. An Fi tends to prefer the more verbal style of joking, which I always envied the ability to make but rarely can come up with. Instead I make silly-sounding yet perfectly logical correlations which may or may not have validity, and think they are funny at that point. Fe appreciates this subtler form of humor. She also needs to vent at some point when she gets angry, or be cheered up when sad. But this is usually not hard (for me) to do, as the case would be with an Fi type -- just listen and make a few relavent logical correlations. Also, her humor tends to take the form of a kind of wacky over-the-top emotional analysis of things, which cheers me up greatly.
I think the movie Stranger than Fiction is about a Ti-INTj and Fe-ESFj couple (though Ti-ISTj is a possibility).
INTj and ESFj Dual Relationship
ESFjs can appear to be a volatile relationship. Coupled with ESFjs explosive moods and INTjs sarcasm, there can be points in which ESFjs and INTjs appear as if they are going to choke the life out of each other. ESFjs explosive moods though are usually out of love and compassion for the INTj. Also, ESFjs tend to project all their problems and worries onto the INTj. This relationship especially works because the INTj doesn't really feel true hatred for anyone. Most people have a hard time staying around ESFjs because of their attitudes at times. Even the INTj will be stressed with ESFjs, its just the INTj will feel less stressed than others. ESFjs often try to get INTjs to do things that they wouldn't normally do. INTjs will usually feel an obligation to do these things for the ESFj, especially after the ESFj lashes out at the INTj. ESFjs usually enjoy the INTjs creativity and tries to spark it out of them. INTjs tend to amaze ESFjs at how well they can comprehend things. ESFjs tend to find this interesting and unique about them. ESFjs tend to try interesting and unique things to impress the INTj (usually by the senses). They often try to make unique foods or foods that the INTj desires.
I'm going to make a functional description later.... im tired.
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
It's okay. I think you need to just....um edit some things.
My dad does the cooking in our house though and he's an INTj. I mean yeah my ESFj mom goes 'out and about' more than him and does most stuff, but he handles the...uhh "woman's job" lol. Of course he's very sensitive about it, but my mom has a naturally strong touch and he has a softer one. Ehh well maybe that's cause he had a stroke I dunno. My dad can look surprisingly butch because he works out a lot, but it doesn't really match his personality. You know what I mean?
They won't fight often, but the get along very well together. In light, energetic humor. The INTj can seem so dead though, it really does NEED that kind ofan ESFj can give them. In turn, the INTj helps more by being on time. INTj has a good perception of this, whereas the ESFj is just totally lost with it. She almost always starts the conversations or says "why aren't you paying attention to me!" in a playful, girly way. ESFj is total people pleasing with meshes well with the INTj's idealistic views of human relationships. It's like a friendly little puppy dog, it doesn't care whose butt it sniffs, which is exactly what kind of loveable, goofy sense of aura the INTj needs, because deep down they are like that themselves, they just don't know how to express it because their
is just god awfully bad.
Interesting and unique are probably subjective. They're both kind of just folky and don't mind just shopping or doing errands together. They are simple, rational people and get uncomfortable if you talk to them about politics or gay rights, or things that I myself am interested in. They like to make bad jokes, and tries to find good humor in even the most crappiest of sitcoms. They're not very brave so they're envious of people that are. They believe in working hard, obeying social norms, and being responsible above all else. Me, I'm different than that but thank God we're not like our parents.
I/O's ESFj description
ESFj uncovered "When It's Not Perfect"
by I/O
The partner is a reflection of the ESFj so must also strive to be perfect. Unfortunately, the more the partner offers in attributes, the higher the ESFj raises the standards; therefore, a partner is doomed to be imperfect in the eyes of the ESFj. One can take solace in the fact that advice rolls so easily off the tongue of the ESFj as to how the partner could become a better person. The ESFj is certainly not shy about expressing the way things should be, and may readily see faults in others without recognising any in him or herself.
The ESFj is always seeking complements because of a need for a lot of positive affirmation in order to feel good. They're overly status conscious, and interested in how others see them and their family. Anything the children do reflects on the ESFj. If things do not go well, retribution is swift. They tend to be dependent on their partners and marry to insure that they have a proper place in the social strata. If the partner is not a good provider, the ESFj can whine, nag and brood incessantly over a comparison of her possessions with those of others.
The ESFj is usually quite popular and good with people, and good at controlling and manipulating them. If all else fails, the ESFj will stoop to guilt manipulation. The ESFj just five minutes ago was casting disparaging remarks about the person to whom she is now being sweet, a true chameleon pleasing to everyone including the enemy. However, their lack of intuition prevents them from seeing the real consequences of their manipulations.
The ESFj doesn't have any strongly felt internal values but does espouse popular opinion. They often defer to higher authority as the source of opinions and attitudes. If bank robbing was popular amongst friends, the ESFj will try to be perfect at it. In weighing their values against society, they find plenty of support for whatever moral transgression they wish to justify. All ESFj have a natural tendency to want to control their environment. They are driven to manipulate others to achieve their own ends; yet they can always convince themselves that they are following a solid moral code of conduct.
The ESFj is overly sensitive, often imagining bad intentions when there aren't any. They can't seem to deal with change, conflict or criticism. Being prone to insecurity, they focus all of their attention on pleasing those that give them security. Their need for security drives their ready acceptance and adherence to the rules of the established system, whether it is bureaucratic, religious or gang related. They seem to blindly accept rules without questioning or understanding them.
The ESFj is easily wounded. And when wounded, their emotions frequently boil over with the vexation of their souls; and they can channel emotions into moving dramatic performances. Under stress, the ESFj can become very critical, finding fault with almost everyone and everything, and ignoring the feelings of others. The ESFj senses danger all around - germs, the elements, sinister character flaws, etc. The world is a dangerous place, not to be trusted. The ESFj can also cause tension by expressing anticipations of gloom and doom, exhibiting a bent toward the pessimistic that can be contagious.
They're not likely to enjoy having to do things, which involve abstract, theoretical concepts, or impersonal analysis. They live in terms of people and things rather than in terms of ideas and principles. And, some may on occasion misinterpret their detail-conscious, pragmatic realism as indicating a lack of intellect, imagination and flexibility. However, if scorned, they can become spiteful and because they are keenly aware of others and their emotional needs, the ESFj really knows how to hurt a person.
EDIT: [One aspect I failed to point out: the ESFj needs to continually dump their woes and frustrations on his or her partner like a purging or cathartic act so the partner has to have broad shoulders and thick skin - hence, a reason why INTj pairing works. -- I/O]
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
My parents: Text-book examples of ESFj/INTj
For those of who that think I don't know anything about socionics and that I'm just this crazy gay freak (lol):
I got into socionics mainly because of my parents. I read the INTj and ESFjs description and it was just jawdropping how ESFJ-ish my mom is and how INTj-ish my dad is and how they fit so well together. I didn't understand sometimes how they got along and made things work, but they are both basically text book examples of the types so it intrigued me. The functions and understandings of PolRs really helped me realize just how & why they fit. Externally, I didn't see how they really liked each other because I didn't understand the innate psychological motivations but after reading more it was like a lightbulb.
Funnily enough they even fit the little cartoon pictures on socioncs.com. It's that anvil-licious.
My ESFj mom is so bad with being on time and stuff, but my dad helps her with that- plus he makes a whole bunch of lists for her all the time. She shops and cares for him, babies him and gives him all the Fe he needs. They both gave me really bad, alpha-ish advice on how to deal with bullies (when it was the Betas that knew what they were talking about on that subject let me tell ya) And just a whole bunch of other shit.
Alphas mistakenly believe you can mediate with people that are shitty and like to see babies cry just cause they're sick, as they are almost too good-natured in a way. This bothers me about them- I always tell them to be more assertive in certain situations. My mom seems forceful but they are both 'alpha softies.' It bugs me because they didn't give me the shield I needed in the world in some ways, but that's okay because I got that from others. My parents are great, they did the best job they knew how to do.... but they ARE alphas you know. =p
I don't have to be all super smart with
I'm trying to type other people too, but my parents have been together for so many years and can do almost anything together and it made me feel motivated to find my own dual. =)
Oh where oh where has my little dual gone, or where or where could he be....
How would you describe LII-ESE duality?
If you had to say what LII-ESE duality looks like or is experienced, how would you do it?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I'm talking more about the behavior and appearance of this duality than its conformance to theory.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
When I lived in a small Belgian town, I used to spend some time sitting at the main market square, inside or in front of a tavern. You end up seeing the same people over and over again.
Very often, over a period of months, I saw the same young couple in or around the tavern - early 20s I guess. The girl, very pretty, and usually wearing "noticeable" clothes - not provocative, but, say, in strong colors. The guy was thin, frail, often working at the bar, smoking a lot, and looking a bit Woody-Allenish (as in a very young WA). When the girl wasn't there, he liked to hang around what seemed to be "the crowd". He seemed more to enjoy being around the crowd than being an "active" part of it. He seemed to enjoy that more than she, actually.
Once, in a quiet afternoon, there were very vew people there and he was sitting there, working on a laptop while smoking and drinking beer. He was very concentrated, and the girl was always smiling a lot, either looking at the laptop over his shoulder, or fetching food or drink for him. This went on for some time. The impression I got is that he was helping her with her homework/fixing a problem in her laptop/something like it.
On another occasion, there was a flea market and they spent quite some time walking around it. The girl seemed to be stopping to look at every "pretty thing" that was being sold; the guy did not seem to be interested but did not seem to mind following her around. To me it would have been extremely boring.
The guy seemed to be always in the same mood - relaxed, "cool", while the girl could be either looking at him lovingly with a big smile (as in day with the laptop) or looking extremely pissed off.
ESFj and INTj duality ESE-LII
The thread on one-word duality descriptions got me wondering if anyone has encountered any real-world examples of this dual relationship. I don't know any!
IEI-Fe 4w3
I have an ESFj friend in my group who likes being around the two INTjs in my group, but she hasn't made any moves. And I'd like to see an INTj who's asked someone out without a suggestion from someone else.
I knew an ESFj really well once, and I might be an INTj. Or at least I think I know how the ESFj - INTj duality works. I don't think it's so odd, it just seemed too good to be true at the time, and we just drifted apart, never ever to speak again.
Having said that, she only lives about half a mile from my house.
I was going to reply to this with a snort: all the LIIs I know are unfulfilled and/or in slowly disintegrating relationships and all the ESEs I know are married to non-duals or otherwise unfulfilled then it struck me:
A very close friend of mine is ESE and she's been in a 2 year relationship with an LII guy.
They're both really awesome people. Very intelligent, lovely, down-to-earth. She's one of the most kind-hearted, accepting and warm people I know and he's kind of nervy but really sweet and smart. His sense of humour kind of takes you 'by surprise', but it's a sharp wit, and she's just one of the loveliest people you'd ever meet. She gets really really busy, caught up in everything she's committed to, and he's like her little pool of calm in the center of it all.
Seriously, <3 these guys. They're awesome separately and like, totally make sense together.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Well, anyway...this ESFj seemed shocked or stunned or apologetic to those (i.e. just me) who helped her or gave her their undivided attention, while to me, it just seem so natural to do so. Though I was fearful of being seen to have an ulterior motive - which I didn't of course. So I didn't make any moves - not 'properly' anyway. I only gave advice, in varying forms (i.e. direct sometimes, and less direct other times).
I think perhaps ESFjs tend to be come with crowd attached, and they help all those people bit by bit, and so to have someone like me may be a bit of a shock. Most of the time, the problems weren't even hers, and if they were, she was talking to me as though she was writing a diary or something. "I need £5 to pay the gas bill...what am I to do?" etc.
I was kind of like a person who gives advice on how to acquire money while not actually seeking it myself. I don't think I dared to ask for her advice as such, at least not directly, and not at all regularly.
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