Differences between ILE-ENTp and SLE-ESTp

[Logos]

wow

i have some pics of me doing the same thing but it's too embarrasing.

PS if you have one of these you don't have my permission to post it

No wonder why many villians and sociopaths get typed with having Ti.

[implied]

Another experience with an ENTp was pretty bad. He was in a rugby team so he wanted to fake Se. He was always going around talking how he wanted to fuck girls and then leave them, he criticized all the time the way i was dressing while he himself did not care about his appearnce...i almost throwed him a venice waterway once out of anger. Liked to make me angry.

i really cannot stand these ENTps and they grate me worse than any other type.

[Steve]

A main difference is that ENTp-Tis will give off more Si, like noticeably so. Si is actually visible with ENTip-Tis and not as visible with ENTp-Nes. ESTp-Tis will give off more Ni, so a main difference between ESTp-Ti and ENTp-Ti is that while they are both Ti subs, you will see a lot of Si with ENTp-Tis and Ni with ESTp-Tis. So there is also that noticeable difference in addition to the differences with Ne and Se.

@introspectivedolphin: your brother instantly hit me as ENTp-Ti, and primarily from the Si I sense from him, just like me. Its the added Si that makes ENTps gentler and not as intense.

Here are some examples:

ENTp-Ti:








Here are some ESTp-Ti:

[Gilly]

Nixon? No fucking way, man. The only one I'd even possibly agree with would be the first one.

[Exodus]

A main difference is that ENTp-Tis will give off more Si, like noticeably so. Si is actually visible with ENTip-Tis and not as visible with ENTp-Nes.

IME it's the opposite. ENTp-Tis value Si less than ENTp-Nes, so they tend to avoid using it more.

[jughead]

How do you tell the difference between iles and sle's? as somone else said Ile's fi polr is quickly apparent. I agree and quickly see it when they get into trouble. Whats the compare and contrast from your personal expirience...try to avoid circle jerking me with theory.

[strrrng]

Fi polr in ILEs seems to manifest more in a blithe, social awkwardness, where silly/absurd things are said/done as some haphazard means to gauge a social 'position.' it also has a more consistent quality, as they are looking for Si, and so will test changing boundaries in various ways. it sometimes feels childish, as if they simply want to see how they can prod you.

SLEs seem to be more unwittingly aloof and unconcerned with basic personal boundaries and social rules. the disregard for this comes as a price for the constant gauging of different power positions, and they often overstep themselves, undermining whatever temporary gain they believed their action to offer. however, I do find their ability to overlook people past a degree of basic usefulness to be... helpful, as it allows me to communicate with them from an objective standpoint, and build a more effective strategy.

[jughead]

cool i have probably made friends randomly with an sle then at a bar.
i take it back, he sounds more like ile now
any other opinions/observations etc?

[jughead]

If this person is SLE I just kinda hang around him passively though and have barely added any input so far. I need some videos probably.
It seems then the social scene would not offer much oppurtunity for SLE's compared to ILE's nor attract them, hence the sterotypical NF vs SF clubs (bad analogy but you get what i mean)

Perhaps i should start reading art of war, the prince etc.....

[Nowisthetime]

About ILEs:

Sometimes Fi-polr makes ILEs quite the opposite of the stereotype about them. It's the other extreme.

One ILE was very upset when he heard that a colleague of him had had sex with a prostitute. They where not friends or anything, but the ILE said that he had "lost all respect for him" because of what he did. Other people who heard about this were just "yeah, whatever...".

Some ILEs can act almost too polite in unexpected situations. Saying things like "thank you" and "please" when I think it's not really needed. Of course ILEs can use politeness as irony, but sometimes there's something else going on.

And of course the thing about treating everybody as a friend. Sometimes this strengthens the duality experience of "already knowing each other" that I can have with them.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi polr in ILEs seems to manifest more in a blithe, social awkwardness, where silly/absurd things are said/done as some haphazard means to gauge a social 'position.' it also has a more consistent quality, as they are looking for Si, and so will test changing boundaries in various ways. it sometimes feels childish, as if they simply want to see how they can prod you.

SLEs seem to be more unwittingly aloof and unconcerned with basic personal boundaries and social rules. the disregard for this comes as a price for the constant gauging of different power positions, and they often overstep themselves, undermining whatever temporary gain they believed their action to offer. however, I do find their ability to overlook people past a degree of basic usefulness to be... helpful, as it allows me to communicate with them from an objective standpoint, and build a more effective strategy.

This is really interesting because I met an ILE at a party who stood at the sidelines all night long and did not even attempt to engage in a social contact with anyone except for his SEI wife.

My SLE cousin will make silly things, like acting out without control in body dancing sort of silly displays. It upsets me because it seems that he can't be serious and not do these things in inappropriate settings. I'll watch my LSE cousin and how serious she will be; even though she may say gruff things, she will never get up and make a spectacle of herself.

[silverchris9]

...the trouble with "concrete examples" as opposed to "circle jerking... with theory" is that concrete examples are poor ways to type as socionics doesn't really deal with predicting behavior, and when you try to predict behavior via socionics, you are generally carried wide of the mark and into limitless error. On the other hand, by describing generalities through "theory," we can make statements that a) more accurately reflect how a larger percentage of people of a given type will behave, and b) are less likely to apply to many people of other types. This is especially important when dealing with how to differentiate two types.[/sermon]

Now, that said: I can always tell from the lack of Se. Let me give some examples of two people I know really well. One is an ILE from my a capella group (let's call him ILE), the other is an SLE that I know from high school (let's call him SLE). Now, ILE and SLE both have readily apparent Fi-polrs. ILE is very comfortable offending people, pushing the boundaries of "appropriate" or "tasteful," and is constantly upbraided by his kindred, an IEE mutual friend of ours, rebuke which he takes smilingly and which does not really negatively affect their relationship. He does not hesitate to state when someone has said something stupid and say so harshly. He often tells jokes to diffuse tension, caring more about improving the general emotional atmosphere (Fe-HA) than how the tension-diffusing joke might make the person at who's expense the joke is, feel bad/hurt/offended/etc (Fi-polr). SLE is equally obvious with the Fi-polr. Some of my favorite examples, which I've mentioned on this forum before, are asking me if he should apologize for telling people that he has a black friend (me) as proof that he's not racist (typical Fi-polr move, an attempt to re-route what is really an Fi-issue through a Ti-circuit, a sort of categorical rule); asking a girl he didn't even know very well if her boobs were real (while sober, no less!); and many other little Fi-blunders like that.

But ILE has more of a "see what will happen" approach, like, he thinks of something and just throws it out to "see what will happen," a typical Ne thing to do, acting for the sake of gauging the response. SLE, on the other hand, has more of a "be direct" approach. He'll say something that may hurt or offend someone because he wants to know, or wants to deal with the subject, but just doesn't know how to approach it in a tactful way, and decides to just go for broke and say it straight out. If ILE and SLE are both approaching a conversation they don't really know how to navigate, ethically speaking, ILE is more likely to say something offensive in a joke, in an attempt to diffuse tension. SLE is more likely to say something offensive by stating something in a blunt manner, without euphemisms or gloss. Also, notice that ILE will hurt someone's feelings as a means of returning things to an emotionally comfortable state (i.e., SiFe superid). SLE will hurt someone's feelings in an attempt to

SLE is particularly okay with hurting people's feelings in an attempt to get them to "face the truth". He almost considers this a virtue. This is especially typical of the SeTi way of seeing certain things as absolutely black and white, these are the facts. He's a Christian, and often speaks of "holding people to what the Bible says." Of course, I try to point out that "what the Bible says" isn't really all that unambiguous, or at the very least, as if we shouldn't act as though you can really "hold" people to a single interpretation of a text as if that were the only way of interpreting said text. But Se is focused on "the way it is," and as such wants to see as many things as possible as unambiguously "the way it is." So SLE wants to force people to "face reality," to deal with "the way it is," "what the Bible says" (in this particular example, but it could just as easily be "what the facts of the case are," "the reality of life on the streets," "the way things play out in real human lives," etc.), and is completely fine with stepping on some emotional toes to do so.

ILE, on the other hand, doesn't offend people by forcing them to hold to "the way it is." ILEs in general are much more inclined to note all the ways that things could be, certainly not "THE WAY it is." So they're not going to offend people in an attempt to make them face reality. They're going to tend to offend people in a way that says, "why are you being so rigid? Why are you clinging to this social system? I'm going to offend you to shock you out of your narrow perspective." To return to the ILE I know, he'll say something offensive to this EIE (another mutual friend) in a way that mocks his typical beta intensity, laser focus on "the goal." ILE will make fun of people (Fi-polr stuff) when they're being "too intense" or "too dramatic" and not "easygoing" enough. ILEs are more interested in breaking people out of one way of seeing THE TRUTH (and will hurt their feelings to do so), while SLEs are more interested in

Also, this is somewhat theoretical, but this whole post I've been using "hurt their feelings" as shorthand for "cause them harm by failing to consider, or just ignoring Fi." Of course "hurt their feelings" isn't really the only thing Fi-polr does. Really, Fi-polr doesn't "hurt people's feelings." Rather, it ignores perceived duties towards others in favor of something "more important," which is generally input from one of the valued functions. For example, we have a perceived social duty not to make fun of authority figures, to respect authority figures. Well, an ILE would gladly stomp on that perceived social duty and make fun of the authority figure for reasons related to the valued function: Ne, most of all, questioning why on earth this person is considered an authority figure, what gives him/her the right to be immune from mockery just 'cause they claim to be some sort of authority, but also Ti, questioning the logic of submitting to the authority figure "just because," or just questioning the intelligence of the authority figure or the validity of his/her decisions. An SLE would be more inclined to ignore the social duty to show that the authority figure "isn't the boss of me," that the authority figure is lower on the power hierarchy than he thinks, and that the SLE is higher (classic example of this is the SLE in The Breakfast Club making fun of the principal).

So yeah, hope those examples were clear/helpful!

[Creepy-male]

ILEs in general are much more inclined to note all the ways that things could be, certainly not "THE WAY it is." So they're not going to offend people in an attempt to make them face reality...

Yea I think the big thing also is the ILEs tend to just say stuff for fun to explore different ideas which to some Fi types may seem perverse or morally offensive.

However its just the Ne type playing with imaginary scenarios. Their Irrational nature usually means that they typically can juggle an idea around without having a decisive opinion about it at the time.

I'd actually say Seth MacFarlane seems ILE, in the way family guy will take random turns and play out imaginary scenario which are mostly morally offensive and assholish but somewhat entertaining in a nerdy alpha way.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Ah, good question.

ENTp talks more in concepts and ideas and abstracts. ESTps is more grounded to 'raw reality' and the here and now.

I love ENTps to death, because we're almost duals anyway really (and I'm the lookalike of their duals, and vice-versa) but we both need somebody more physical and neither can provide.

[Creepy-male]

Ah, good question.

ENTp talks more in concepts and ideas and abstracts. ESTps is more grounded to 'raw reality' and the here and now.

I love ENTps to death, because we're almost duals anyway really (and I'm the lookalike of their duals, and vice-versa) but we both need somebody more physical and neither can provide.

lol yep this is one of the reasons I think I am ILE, my two good friends in highschool were SLE and IEI. Everytime I hang out with the IEI friend we get along really well and our intuitive abstract sense usually works together very well, but we end up not being grounded and realistic enough and we just sit around philosophizing and smoking weed all day. My SLE friend and me got along well for 1-2 years in which we were both curious/impressed by each other but then we started to always compete with each other because each of our egos were the other persons role. I wanted to believe I was really competent with Se, but I would lose interest quickly and go more abstract with the Ne....he wanted to believe he was really competent with the Ne, but he would lose interest and go back to be grounded. Eventually we would both try to one up each other and we'd get on each others nerves. I would use logic and intuition to make good arguments to annoy his mind, and he would use Se to just bulldoze through this all and go for the jugular saying things to upset me. I would remind him he wasn't good with his role function and he'd do the same to me. After something like 1-2 years of constantly being in a sort of cold war against each other, we finally learned to tolerate each other, but still the grounded/intuition thing constantly gets in the way... which is something I don't like about socionics. I think SLEs and ILEs can make a positive relationship if they know how to deal with that relationship. Its supposed to be competitive but the other persons ego is supposed to help you with developing and challenging your weaknesses. Some distance and mediation is required though, its a sort of competitive, mutual admiration at a distance thing.

[Azure Flame]

What's the difference?

I ask because I Identify more with ILE even though I love sensory pleasures.

I also seem to get along with ISFp's a lot more often than INFp's. INFp's seem to deactivate me as per the illusionary partner relationship.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

It's thoroughly possible to be an Intuitive type and love sensory pleasures.

[mu4]

I think the fact you ask this question make you less likely a ego.

[ashlesha]

I think the fact you ask this question make you less likely a ego.

y?

[Azure Flame]

I think the fact you ask this question make you less likely a ego.

I think my general lack of knowledge on the subject matter is the reason.

In myers briggs, I'm like, smack dab in the middle between ESTP and ENTP.

[squirreltual]

Seems a fair enough question.

In tests I'll often score SLE as a close second. I appear to be more interested in power than other ILEs and probably cultivated an SLE persona to dip in and out of. Perhaps E8-ness is clouding the issue?

[ambivalent existence]

Seems a fair enough question.

In tests I'll often score SLE as a close second. I appear to be more interested in power than other ILEs and probably cultivated an SLE persona to dip in and out of. Perhaps E8-ness is clouding the issue?

so what exactly makes you Ne valuing over Se valuing? how does Ne base manifest for you?

[squirreltual]

so what exactly makes you Ne valuing over Se valuing? how does Ne base manifest for you?

I can't keep the Se up for longer periods of time. In all fairness I'm quite 8ish. Buuut as long as I am breathing I am brainstorming. I grew up in a family of sensors - probably has something to do with it.

[ambivalent existence]

I can't keep the Se up for longer periods of time. In all fairness I'm quite 8ish. Buuut as long as I am breathing I am brainstorming. I grew up in a family of sensors - probably has something to do with it.

what do you call "longer periods of time"?

healthy 5 integrated into 8, as well?

[mu4]

Just a intuition.

[aixelsyd]

One values Se/Ni the other Ne/Si. As for finding yourself there, well, you'll figure out that eventually.

I hope you found my reply enlightening. If not, I suggest you meditate on it until you do.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Could you post a picture for VI? Imho, ILE and SLE are two of the easiest to tell apart visually.

SLEs like to appear stylish, sometimes over-the-top, in-fashion, and professional, and have that stare that commands respect.

ILEs appear much more laid-back, friendly, approachable, and day-dreamy.

A few pictures could easily solve this problem.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Could you post a picture for VI? Imho, ILE and SLE are two of the easiest to tell apart visually.

SLEs like to appear stylish, sometimes over-the-top, in-fashion, and professional, and have that stare that commands respect.

ILEs appear much more laid-back, friendly, approachable, and day-dreamy.

A few pictures could easily solve this problem.

Type differentiation is not as simple as posting a picture.

DJ, I personally found and easier to choose from than and .

[Creepy-male]

One values Se/Ni the other Ne/Si. As for finding yourself there, well, you'll figure out that eventually.

I hope you found my reply enlightening. If not, I suggest you meditate on it until you do.

This...

this is the key, now open the door in your mind

[ambivalent existence]

Just a intuition.

one that cannot be put into words? -.-

[Radio]

op u do not value ne whatsoever, aside from the fact that u seem incredibly resistant towards ne centric ideas you seem generally more physically present and focused than i would expect entps to be. theres also a certain smoothness to the way you present yourself, like u dont hesitate or doubt before you speak which is something i associate w beta sts. you're kind of not dorky enough to be entp and i dont see (m)any parallels w u and other selftyped entps here

[Satan]

op u do not value ne whatsoever, aside from the fact that u seem incredibly resistant towards ne centric ideas you seem generally more physically present and focused than i would expect entps to be. theres also a certain smoothness to the way you present yourself, like u dont hesitate or doubt before you speak which is something i associate w beta sts. you're kind of not dorky enough to be entp and i dont see (m)any parallels w u and other selftyped entps here

HOW THE FUCK CAN SOMEONE SEEM PHYSICALLY PRESENT ON A FORUM.

[ArchonAlarion]

HOW THE FUCK CAN SOMEONE SEEM PHYSICALLY PRESENT ON A FORUM.

Irony.

[Radio]

HOW THE FUCK CAN SOMEONE SEEM PHYSICALLY PRESENT ON A FORUM.

videos?

[Absurd]

videos?

HOW CAN YOU SQUEEZE YOURSELF IN A VIDEO AND POST IT ON FORUM, I'M MERCUTIO AND I DON'T KNOW.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

and don't forget: lube,lube,lube!

[silke]

--outdated--

[Azure Flame]

ok well I had a nice revelation today. I work at a bank and its a really easy going job, but I'm starting to get really frustrated and stressed out because of all the rules. I can't remember rules for shit. I have a droid X2 with a million alarms set so I don't have to remember rules or when its time to go do things.

At work its like, "if you're caught on your cell phone you'll be fired." "if you fall asleep you'll be fired." "if you're late you'll be fired" "don't let a supervisor catch you out in the hallway at this time doing this or that politics politics blah blah" I was going crazy this afternoon. I think my boss is catching on. She's very by the book but she keeps assuring me the team is easy going etc. I think she's catching on. I'm freaking out over all these rules. I quit the navy because of all the rules. I once lost a month of vacation because I forgot to call in at 8 in the morning one day. I was near suicidal over all these fucking rules I have to follow, and its starting to happen all over again. I'm not a coffee drinker, but now I am because it keep me awake. I have no idea when I'm falling asleep, it just seems to happen even if I think I can fight through it (I can't). Just yesterday I left a tray of fish fillets on the stove, I turned the stove on, then went to bed. I left the stove on overnight and the fish fillets out because I forgot to eat dinner. If I can't remember to eat dinner, how can I remember to stay awake? Things like this. I'm a drifty space case.

Anyway if SLE's are this inept when it comes to remembering rules and regulations then I might remain SLE. I like to look good and I consider myself pretty attractive but sometimes I'll forget to brush my teeth, or I'll forget to shave etc. And aren't LSI's the reason my life sucks so hard right now? haha. People keep telling me LSI but I don't buy it. WAY too rigid.

Here's a pic:




chris evans (whatever type he is I think I'm the same)

[1981slater]

ILEs are "intelligent", SLEs are "smart"

[1981slater]

BTW, I just remembered some fictional ILE/SLE friends: Ted Mosby (ILE) and Barney Stinson (SLE); Ted is more idealistic, Barney is more realistic.