Kindred type differences: ILE-ENTp and IEE-ENFp

[Mea]

This is just from personal experience but...

Professionally:
ENFP: Tend to be more social; much more idealistic; thinks fostering more social atmospheres at work is important; can overwhelm those around them sometimes with their enthusiasm and then the hurt they feel when others don't share it. They are likely to be more chatty with their co-workers.

ENTP: I don't really care about social stuff at work. Rather than a party to recognize accomplishments I'd be more satisfied with a plaque or monetary reward. I socialize at work because I have to, not want to. I'm not very chatty while working, actually chatty people annoy me at work. I'm am very tactful though and tend to get along superficially with most. If someone tries to attack me in a professional atmosphere I go from ENFP-like to a lawyer who will make no bones about how I can take them out.

Socially:
ENFP: Has a bit more emotional drama going on. Nothing major but it seems major to them. They look for attention for their feelings and want you to be attentive to them. They need affirmation from others when it comes to their personality or appearance. Tends to gossip. Spend time nurturing their friendships.

ENTP: I have more general chaos going on in my life. I have had people describe me as 'extreme'. I take risks so sometimes the payoffs are really good or really really bad. I blow it off usually though. I gossip but more in terms of trying to understand the behavior. Its not about sharing 'news', its about understanding. I spend little time nurturing my friendships. My closest friends are very low maintenance. We can go for awhile without talking and just pick up where we left off. They don't mind when I ignore them because I get an interest in something.

Socially, ENFPs and ENTPs get along very well. We are both likely to protect those around us especially if we see them as weaker. We will do it differently though.

e.g. have a scenario where a friend of an EN*P is being picked on.

ENFP reaction: To offer emotional support, take that person's side and make them feel better. Maybe even say mean things about the bully.

ENTP reaction: Analyze the individual doing the bullying, suggests possible ways to take the bully out in a way that will completely squash their ego so they won't even dare try it again.

ENTPs will handle this situation much more aggressively. When I want to win, I don't often lose.

This seems to me to be a very accurate post. One of my best friends is an ENFp and all of this seems to fit. I agree completely.

Does not apply to all. My ENTp cousin is more social than I. She socializes a lot and everyone loves talking to her. She always have really interesting points of view and makes everyone laugh. I observe more than she does. While she's busy socializing.

And we both hate gossip.

[mikemex]

Both ENFp and ENTp have desire to be perfect. ENFp want to be perfect as a person, ENTp want to be perfect as a thinker.

Back to the Future is one movie that comes to my mind in which ENTp and ENFp are the main characters.

[Wavebury]

Both ENFp and ENTp have desire to be perfect. ENFp want to be perfect as a person, ENTp want to be perfect as a thinker.

Whats the difference?

[Polly]

Both ENFp and ENTp have desire to be perfect. ENFp want to be perfect as a person, ENTp want to be perfect as a thinker

We both might have perfection issues but I don't think I agree with that. If anyone points out any imperfection I think we'd both probably put ourselves under the microscope over it regardless of what it was.

I think its more ENFPs like being liked whereas its not as important to me. I prefer to be respected for the things I do. Keeping in mind I'm generalizing here. I'm sure there are times when we can switch.

Another dif....

I think I come off a lot more arrogant than ENFPs do. But note, I'm actually aware of it and make fun of it even. It's not something that usually gets in the way of my social interactions at all.

Does not apply to all. My ENTp cousin is more social than I. She socializes a lot and everyone loves talking to her. She always have really interesting points of view and makes everyone laugh. I observe more than she does. While she's busy socializing

This describes me very well. I'm not anti-social at all. I can be really charismatic and funny. I just don't feel much of an emotional connection to all these people. These are superficial friendships that only go on at parties etc. To see me talking to them though, you'd think we were the best of friends.

But that's a social situation. At work, I'm different. More down to business.

I get complimented on my personality all the time. Basically a really nice person who's not a push over either. I have a lot of confidence but its not over-confidence.

[Blaze]

Basically everything that was just said.

ENTp's are more "to the point," I also think that they are sometimes more aggressive on a regular basis.

ENFp's are skilled charmers.

quite simply, yes!

[jewels]

I'm having a hard time distinguishing ENTP from ENFP males. Sometimes the ENFP guys act very similar to a quiet ENTP.

How could I tell them apart?

[Jimbean]

Most of the time there is a big difference between the two. ENTp's usually speak in shorter sentences than ENFp's, and in conversation, ENFp's give the impression that they do not know how to something without offending the person they are talking to. ENTp's in conversation are simpler and more down to the point.

Also, ENFp's usually have a softer look in their faces whereas an ENTp may either have an obnoxiously clueless expression or of being confident but not knowing where they are going.

[Jarno]

wow, there is a huge difference between ENTP and ENFP.

ENTP's are really smart asses. They are the most clever of all types. They like discussions.

ENFP are sensitive and manipulative. They are sometimes dramatic. (especially for a male). They like social gatherings.

[meatburger]

wow, there is a huge difference between ENTP and ENFP.

ENTP's are really smart asses. They are the most clever of all types. They like discussions.

ENFP are sensitive and manipulative. They are sometimes dramatic. (especially for a male). They like social gatherings.

ENTp's also like social gatherings though. The two ENTp guys i know go out a lot more than me. I agree though there is a big difference between ENTp's and ENFp's. Its just the vibe for some unusual reason i cant describe it.

[detail]

Its just the vibe for some unusual reason i cant describe it.

Yeah, you don't want to piss off an ENTp.
:wink:

What? Most ENTps are pussies.

[JRiddy]

The PoLR is usually a dead giveaway. ENTPs become frustrated and confused around content, i.e., inner emotional states, sentiment, etc. ENFPs become frustrated with the analytical . I think the PoLR is, in general, the best way to distinguish between types with the same leading function.

[Jarno]

Its just the vibe for some unusual reason i cant describe it.

Yeah, you don't want to piss off an ENTp.
:wink:

haha, yes this has some truth in it.

Mostly when I'm around an ENTP I get this scary feeling, hoping he doesn't pick me as his target to make fun off. Because they are very clever when it comes to making jokes, winning discussions, making you look like an idiot.

[Blaze]

Its just the vibe for some unusual reason i cant describe it.

Yeah, you don't want to piss off an ENTp.
:wink:

no you surely don't. get you we will.

[Creepy-bg]

Its just the vibe for some unusual reason i cant describe it.

Yeah, you don't want to piss off an ENTp.
:wink:

no you surely don't. get you we will.

for some reason that's extra intimidating in Yoda speak

[Blaze]

Its just the vibe for some unusual reason i cant describe it.

Yeah, you don't want to piss off an ENTp.
:wink:

no you surely don't. get you we will.

for some reason that's extra intimidating in Yoda speak

LOL that made me laugh out loud.

[Lucy]

Ok, humour an ameteur here guys. What are the differences between ILE and IEE? Anything would be useful, just so I can confirm a few things...

thanks...x

[strrrng]

IEEs usually are not realistic, they dive in fantasies, though not all of them. the young IEEs feel the necessity to belong to a group, to identify themselves with a kind of people. IEEs start arguing without an apparent purpose, it look like they have satisfaction making "something moving". IEEs are very insinuant, they many times say "what do you mean by that", even begin imaginary conflicts in their minds because they think (but don't have the courage to ask) someone have evil thoughts for them.
IEEs feel remorse often.

this part is wrong.

one difference is in their method of expression. ENTps value Fe, so they're more likely to be trying to receive attention and influence the external emotional atmosphere. ENFps don't care about this as strongly as do ENTps. Also, ENFps value Te and have Ti polr, so they will not really care for the ways ENTps explain things, as Te views things more discretely, albeit in a continuous sense (links in a chain), whereas Ti is more about structure and framework.

[Mea]

it is true, it is seen from an ILE's POV, an ILE that have a lot of IEE relatives.
sorry, i was taken by the wave, i was subjective but hope that how i see things might help because i'm of one of the types involved.

but it's barely true.

IEEs don't exactly dive into fantasy.
and what is that about feeling the necessity of belonging in a group and identifying with people?
that statement just doesn't say much.
don't most human beings feel better if they were to have a group of friends they relate to?
or are you saying that they just dive into any group for the sake of it and conform to it?

i think that's possibly why strrrng said it was wrong.

[JuJu]

IEEs start arguing without an apparent purpose, it look like they have satisfaction making "something moving". IEEs are very insinuant, they many times say "what do you mean by that", even begin imaginary conflicts in their minds because they think (but don't have the courage to ask) someone have evil thoughts for them.
IEEs feel remorse often.

ephemeros, are you sure that you identified these ppl correctly? Not all IEEs are weird, argumentative douches. (Some of us are though, hehe.)

I know that you attempt to type ppl using only the Jungian foundation, (i.e. "is this person more E or I? More N or S?" etc.) I believe that a more realistic picture might develop if you study the two types' functional preferences.

strrrng explained it well.

[Sirena]

Fi. That's the big difference. An ENFp is confident in Fi matters and their dual (the ISTp) has Fe polr, is not very emotionally expressive and so on. An ENTp needs more Fe from others, and their dual (ISFp) is softer and warmer than an ISTp (sounds like I'm describing a pillow ).

Fe vs. Fi quadras and people: Fe is jokey, playful, non-serious, clubbish. They can take the serious and turn it frivolous. For a Fi person this is disconcerting because they're inclined to take everything as meaning something even when joking around. "I didn't mean anything by it" is more likely to be said by Fe quadra folks than Fi, and "Oh, I thought you meant" is more likely to be said by Fi quadra folks than Fe. My powers of communication I'm afraid = fail right now.

Basically if you can be in a relationship with an ISTp and not get bewildered that they never seem to change emotion, you might be ENFp. If you can be in a relationship with an ISFp and not get bewildered by their shifting emotions and vagueness, you might be ENTp. But only might (: Obviously both can be quite happy with their semi-duals as well and adjust and learn to understand each other, though I think an ENFp-ISFp matchup would work better than ENTp-ISTp in the long-term.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense. I really like the way you described the difference between Fi and Fe.

[implied]

Everything you said makes a lot of sense. I really like the way you described the difference between Fi and Fe.

no joke! i completely agree.

[Rubicon]

- SLIs don't like ILEs' style. my brother SLI says i play "Pinocchio music" (

What do you mean by "Pinocchio music"?

[Ms. Kensington]

though I think an ENFp-ISFp matchup would work better than ENTp-ISTp in the long-term.

me too

[Rubicon]

ask him. it's a kind of mocking, i think in his mind is something like this: "hard to believe this frivolous and superficial asshole could compose a real profound and serious music" and when listens to it is subjective recalling my behavior in day-to-day matters. there must be some kind of mystery around the musician for him to like. it looks like his ideal musician would be a rustic phlegmatic norwegian (or irish) living in a forest hunting for a living and not caring about socionics .

lol - I'm trying to imagine what sort of music a rustic, phlegmatic, forest-living, norwegian huntsman would come up with ....

[xyz]

AWESOME music that's what you little pink teddy bear.

[Rubicon]

AWESOME music that's what you little pink teddy bear.

How do YOU know, you donut-wielding, spectacle-wearing maniac?

[xyz]

How do YOU know, you donut-wielding, spectacle-wearing maniac?

Because up until a few years ago I WAS a rustic, phlegmatic, forest-living, central american huntsman you button nosed caniform.

[Rubicon]

Because up until a few years ago I WAS a rustic, phlegmatic, forest-living, central american huntsman you button nosed caniform.

Funny - I've never seen your name in lights, you little white-moustached midget. What happened to your 'AWESOME' musical compositions?

[xyz]

Funny - I've never seen your name in lights, you little white-moustached midget. What happened to your 'AWESOME' musical compositions?

That's because you're too busy digging through your own rubbage you incredibly irritable grandiose deluded bear.

What ever happened to your fluffy pink exterior?

[Rubicon]

That's because you're too busy digging through your own rubbage you incredibly irritable grandiose deluded bear.

What ever happened to your fluffy pink exterior?

It was all in your imagination, you pompom-haired fool. Funny how someone with such a big and bulbous head as yours can be so narrow-minded.

[Mr Saturn]

lol @ the course of this thread.

Here.

http://www.socionics.com/prof/entp.htm

http://www.socionics.com/prof/enfp.htm

These are very concise. I believe they are quite broad but they give you a general idea.

[xyz]

It was all in your imagination, you pompom-haired fool. Funny how someone with such a big and bulbous head as yours can be so narrow-minded.

THAT CROSSED THE LINE JEM.


I hope you and your kind have your lungs devoured by an air-born flesh eating virus.

[Rubicon]

THAT CROSSED THE LINE JEM.


I hope you and your kind have your lungs devoured by an air-born flesh eating virus.

I hope you're happy that you've singlehandedly derailed a spectular thread on account of your massive ego and anti-teddybear prejudice.

Leaving this to your conscience will be punishment enough.

[Mr Saturn]

Hmmm, should I use my invisibility for good or for evil?

[JuJu]

true norwegian black metal m/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4U33U_UyzQ
btw, how would you type Gaahl from this documentary? i'd say he is an ISTP.

Tough to say based on that, seeing as how he only says two sentences in it, (beginning at 5:42.) In the following clip, he does not seem to be ISTp--at least in Socionics:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=avnsgYvHPK8

I don't see any valuing of Fi... Seems that his focus is Se.

[Creepy-]

What are the most obvious differences between ILE and IEE types? As in, what differences would be most observable in everyday life (that is, not only in socionics theory)?

Usually when I'm stuck between two types for someone else, I look at their groupings (quadras, romance styles, temperaments, etc.) but these have so much in common that I'm having a hard time differentiating. Will you guys please help me out with your own reflections and anecdotes?

Thanks in advance!!

[Mattie]

It's funny that you mention ENTp and ENFp are very similar, my best friend and I are these types and a lot of people pair us together as much the same at first, but once they get to know us, it's rather clear. So I'll be drawing this from my experience with her.

I think the most obvious difference is that ENFps will be a lot more careful of their wording and use people and feelings as examples or justifications. ENTp tend to be more outwardly expressive and tend to jump into debate mode a lot more readily than an ENFp. An ENFp will typically have a lot more insight on a person if you ask, while ENTps tend to be slightly oblivious to how their immediate actions affect people. ENTps like to gather up a lot of acquaintances and be in large groups, like ENFps will most likely try to gain friendship status quickly and will seem like they've known you forever rather quickly.

It is rather hard to tell ENTp and ENFps apart when they get into a rambling discussion where they explore possibilities, but you'll notice that even if something is unrealistic, the ENTp will have the facts worked out and more logically sound than the ENFp, while the latter's most likely will sound more fanciful and enjoyable.

If you ever see an argument between the two, look for Ti vs Fi, it's the most apparent. The ENTp might relate this argument to something arbitrary while the ENFp will add in special circumstance issues. Typically one will say the other is allowing their emotions to rule in some manner, and the other will accuse them of not paying attention to their feelings.

Sorry if this seems unorganized, it's from my experience and I tried to generalize it a bit.

[mikemex]

@look:

You're assuming the MBTI posture where T = smart, F = dumb, which is not the case by any means. IEEs and ILEs are equally capable when it comes to intellectual ability.

If IEEs make a lot of mistakes, it's not because of some inherent flaw in their thinking. A true deficiency manifests itself through the inability to realize something by your own; which is not the case, because IEE can catch most of their own mistakes. Rather, the supposed flaw comes by the very nature of the extroverted and irrational individual: a tendency to share an (incomplete) idea before finishing the thinking process.

I have a close ILE friend that knows nothing about socionics. He's smart, but unfortunately he's somewhat ignorant due the environment he was raised in. I'm aware that I should not state things lightly, so when we are together and a disagreement about something raises, I just let him talk and he generally traps himself into something absurd. It doesn't have anything to do with his intelligence level, but rather what I stated above.

[Wynch]

Well ithe most obvious difference is going to be Fi Creative/Ti PoLR vs. Ti Creative/Fi PoLR. And the biggest difference between these two subjects is internal vs. external static fields. In other words the organization of internal relationships vs. external relationships. Fi will want to see the internalized relationships between people and things whereas Ti will look for the more externalized structures.

This is how I look at it: Se and Ti are similar and closely linked because they are both external/static perceptions. The only difference is that Se focuses on the concrete/physical (objects) and Ti looks at the abstract/picture (fields). Similarly Ne and Fi are closely related because they are both internal/static perceptions. Again, the difference is that Ne is looking at objects and Fi is looking at fields. So people tend to have a better physical perception of Ne/Se than they do of how Fi/Ti functions because fields are more of an abstract concept than objects. People can observe the use of object functions because they are more visibly perceivable. So to really understand how Fi/Ti are different, it's easier to look at Ne/Se. The easiest way to see the difference between Ne and Se is that Ne is highly subjective while Se is very objective. Don't turn this into a generalization that all Xx types are subjective or objective or unfounded in logic etc, because that isn't what I'm trying to say. Basically subjective (internal) IMs are processing information that is almost instinctive. It's not as physically perceivable as external functions because they are internalized. On the other hand objective (external) IM's are processing information in a way that is outward and more mentally and physically tangible.

The reason why people mistake Ti and Fi often is that they are both static fields and that people have a hard time differentiating between concrete objects and abstract fields. Ti is the objective study of relationships (i.e. logic) while Fi is the subjective study of relationships (i.e. feelings). What people forget is that everyone who values a subjective IMs has matching objective IMs. Everyone who has Fi ego has Te valued. Though they see the world primarily through the lens of subjective relationships, they also value objective observation. Additionally, Ti ego complements Fe valued. Though they see the world through objective relationships, they also value a subjective observation.

After looking at all this, you can start to see some of the observable differences between ENTp and ENFp. ENTp is going to come off as a blend of subjective observation paired with objective relationships. This is mixture is why alpha NTs often come across as hair-brained, a little crack-pot, but always with some kind of strange logic to back it up. Similarly, Gamma NTs mix objective observation with subjective relationships to create ideas that, to some, seem founded on fact but based on the irrational. ENFp on the other hand is pairing subjective observation with subjective relationships. That's why a lot of people will categorize ENFps as entirely illogical, which isn't true. ENFps observations can be founded in logical reasoning (not to be mistaken with T-logic), the fact that their ideas are often subjective makes people disregard that information offhand.

But in the back-up wings of Si/Te valued, ENFps can be completely objective. Their objectivity in Te vs. Ti will be of a different sort than ENTp's, while ENTp's subjectivity in Fe vs. Fi will look different than ENFp's. This causes confusion between ENTp and ENFp because both will value the opposite (subjective or objective) function in objects, giving an impression that one could know the field. So Fe (an understanding of subjective observable traits [feelings and atmosphere]) paired with Ti (an understanding of objective patterns and abstracts [logical structures]) can often imitate, and be mistaken for, Fi. Meanwhile Te (an understanding of objective observable traits [a dynamic version of fact]) paired with Fi (an understanding of subjective patterns and abstracts [interpersonal relationships]) can imitate and be mistaken for Ti.

The best way to really tell the difference between the two is to test one's PoLR directly. Ask an ENTp who their friends are. They'll probably give you a list so long it's ridiculous. Then ask them how many of those people they see on a regular basis outside of necessary hours (not at school, work, etc.). ENTp will probably have a vastly different list on the one than the other, even though we recognize this, it doesn't seem to prevent it from happening. Meanwhile give ENFp a list of objects and ask them how they're related, then give ENTp the same list. You can bet that ENTps will have longer lists than ENFps. There are going to be exceptions to all of these rules, of course, depending on your awareness of your PoLR and what you've done to patch that up. But generally speaking (in an observable form) that'll be the biggest difference.

Sorry for the essay, I was pondering this issue during a particularly boring meeting.

[xyz]

Vero.... are you talking about a person or a robot?